DeltaJockey
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Posts posted by DeltaJockey
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2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:
Someone at another forum spoke similarly of it, saying, "I got my M8X today...The keybed is amazing...It works beautifully with the poly aftertouch. It feels like a synth when you play synth parts and feels like a piano when you play piano/keys. I almost can't explain it."
From the above statement, I have to wonder if the electromagnetic sensor tech, (or some other included enabling technology attached to the key), also works in reverse. That is, providing a magnetic flux which is controlled by software, making the dynamic weighting change depending on the performance. If that isn't the case, it would be an interesting way to make variable weighted actions, customized to synth playing vs piano playing.
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46 minutes ago, Redknife said:
DJ: I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the m8x should you follow through since you are a Montage and Kronos user. I have a Kronos 2 and have been thinking about one last hoorah of studio revision: selling Kronos and Moog, picking up the m8x. Looking for something fresh. It's hard for me to find holes in the Kronos sound pallet but sometimes different is good. So far, I like the m8x control interface, PAT, the particulars of the AN-X, and overall sound characteristics. Pianos are important to me. Ever since I sold my SY77 I've missed the Yamaha sound. Maybe it's time to get in the Y game again. Given the power of computer/iPad sound generation it can be tough to argue the need for a flagship controller, but the integration of sounds and controls on a workstation is a big differentiator for me. For now, I'm taking all the info in and waiting on member hands-on reports! Maybe a Montage M will show up on the floor stock of the local Guitar Center (low expectation).
I lack clarity on how MIDI control has changed montage:M8X. I also don't know how to view the utility of the user sample memory. Are there Yamaha/aftermarket "user samples" to load (other than generating home grown samples and transferring to user sample memory)? I also don't know the functions available for sample management for issues such as multi-sample options although in truth I'll likely never do that.
s).
I definitely have more gear than I need, but I do have the right amount of gear that I want! I too have always worked on the premise of selling off old gear to afford new stuff. Trouble is, it's getting harder to sell things in the current climate of affairs. I've had several Kronos over the years, and the earliest I had was a KronosX 88. I think the fan issue was a bit more problematic in the earlier versions, but my current Kronos2 73, has never been an issue.
I'm not a heavy user of AT, but I like it there when the need arises.
I used to have a Hydrasynth, and rarely used the PAT. But I think that was more to do the the rest of the synth than the PAT. The Montage may be different. One thing that did occur to me, which I haven't checked yet, is while the Montage onboard performances programmed for PAT fully utilizes this, as is its ability to TX externally, whether my vst's will respond to PAT. I like having AT particularly for Zebra and Omnisphere, but will the patches only respond to channel AT?
Other than the onboard sound design etc, my use case is going to also be dominated by using it as a master controller with Logic. I took note in the Yamaha advertising that it is more refined at DAW control now, and specifically mentions most of the mainstream DAWs. I'm not a Cubase user nowadays, but they mention Logic, so I assume it will automatically map the controls appropriately when selected.
It doesn't surprise me that Yamaha have upped the focus on M8x action also to the piano player, as I get the impression that there are so many musicians out there that value the piano experience, even on synths. The conversations have become more frequent over the years between people, and it seems to be what a lot of folk want, me included.
And it sounds like the new action technology allows for the piano experience while keeping the action nimble for EP, organ and synth. That seems to be the rationale for Studiologic on the NumaX GT too. And in my opinion, it works!
The Montage has always had aftermarket performances on offer from many vendors. I expect the method of loading third party libraries hasn't changed, though the interface needs a refresh
When I bought my Montage8, it came with a licence for a specific Montage version of SampleRobot. I have some of my own libraries on Montage of favorite programs from my Kronos. Unlike the the Kronos, multisample management on Montage/MODX if I recall, is only done on computer based apps like Samplerobot, you then export it to a Montage/MODX library/performance file. I'm not a guru on this stuff though.
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I've been quietly following the discussions from the beginning, without contributing to speculation, even though I know synth hardware from the beginnings in the 70's, I am totally clueless when it comes to speculation on marketing strategies for keyboard companies. I've had an original Montage8 from near the beginning, and have gone in and out of passion for it.
The things I like about it are not the same as most people, and I have used it as a master studio controller for much of the time, because of its high quality audio interface and onboard 4 channel analog outs which I use for 4 channel surround monitors. I have on the whole liked the BHE action, but not above some of my other actions, particularly compared to the NumaX GT action. I don't use the organ and EP patches at all, so drawbars don't enter into my calculation. The one thing in particular that really irked me about the Montage, was the fact that I couldn't get the sliders to control external vst parameters, only the rotary encoders.
...Enter the MontageM8x
I was not intending to upgrade anytime soon, but the specs and discussions have me following with interest, particularly the new action, which is always a moth to light for me
The incorporation of the hybrid tech, and the ability for additional functionality with firmware upgrades, along with less physical and wear-outable sensors also had me excited.
The comments about it being lighter than previous actions got me listening, and with hope I thought it may be a bit more like the Numa X GT in this regard.
I'm not in a position unfortunately to go traveling to try it out for real, but along with interest in many of the upgraded and added features, already having my gun locked and loaded, the little GAS voice which sits on my right shoulder whispering in my ear, went and pulled the trigger before I had a chance to stop it :).
Of course I'm excited about the increased level of sound generation, ANx and control/display improvements, and will be pouring over every youtube video I have time to watch.
I now have a perfectly new condition Montage8 to sell, and rather cheap I suspect! I expect the M8x to turn up hopefully by the end of the coming week.
If no one else has given first hand opinions, I will make some comments when I get it from a pianists point of view.
The speculation on fan noise is not an issue for me, as I've owned a Kronos for many years, with zero concerns over it's fan noise, and life, which is about 8 years of use, and no wear or dust on the fan. Non issue! The Montage has a 5 year warranty, before I'd even have to consider the burden of this.
I'm not normally a first adopter, and hope that there aren't any gotchas which will emerge in the next few months from people roadtesting them.
I see folks baulking at the price in USD and UK pounds etc. Spare a thought for us in OZ with a quite terrible exchange rate at the moment.
The Yamaha recommended price is $7200AUD! Street price seems to be around $6400, and there seems to be a promotional price at the moment of $5750, so not wanting to spend more later, I grit my teeth and went for it. It's not a sign of wealth, it's indicative of the only hobby I spend my money on
So, just a few of my ramblings, take them with salt, or whatever pinch of spice takes your fancy!
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3 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:
Not to speak of the 180 day downloading period
Yes that was something that struck me too. I hadn't logged in for some time, and noticed some plugins I must have got bundled with monitors at some point. It had long expired, so missed my opportunity to download. I thought, oh well, they've done me a favour, i don't have a spare day to muck about with trying to get them successfully installed anyway.😉
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Found this one in my Inbox just now..
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Yes very Korgish, reminds me a bit of a Minilogue.
Why is it when they do demonstration videos, and I mean all companies, they always show the person twiddling knobs to the sound in a way like, they're having to strain to turn the knob. The put all their might into it. You can can just see the fingers tightly tensed up, like they're turning an old steering wheel style water pipe valve, and needing to put enormous amounts of grunt into it. Maybe this one isn't quite as pronounced, but I'm wondering if anyone else ever notices this?
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As I have a history with them, I didn't even have to sign up for the newsletter, I already was, and when I logged into my account the offer was there. I have several pairs of IK monitors, and they are very good, but the software side of their business beggars belief!
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On 9/19/2023 at 3:40 AM, Jim Alfredson said:
IK Multimedia giving away Miroslav Philharmonik 2 CE just for signing up to their newsletter.
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/news/?id=Miro2Giveaway2023So being a sucker for orchestral libraries, I thought I'd give these an audition. I've not historical had very good user experiences managing IK libraries, and thought things might have improved.
Well, I gave up in a rage. It has been the worst download and failed install experience I've had in a long time, with so many problems and lack of info, I won't bother detailing here. I just deleted it all again. Obviously a lot of people are very happy with it all, but it will have to remain one of life's big mysteries for me.😒
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So, I was just giving one of the first photos some thought. Maybe just a muse in fantasy, but with the action looking different with the textured keys, and as others had pointed out it may now include the NW - GH3, but, considering the Montage8 was designed with BHE because of it's need to be playable with a wide range of sounds, I'm wondering whether either, they've just modernised the BHE with the trendy textured keytops, or they've designed a new BHE with wooden keys, rather than inserting a graded NW or similar.
Textured keys are the fashion these days, regardless of what action is underneath,
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I find it hard to really judge from the soundfiles. Of the sounds which interest me, the pianos seem to have quite a bit of compression, and the orchestral sounds are distinctly Yamaha, with quite a sharp transient digital quality to them. I've come to expect that though from default do everything patches on synths. Just not up to the niche specialization of bespoke libraries. Would be unfair to expect 😁
I've always been impressed with Yamaha guitars though. The slide guitars I play on my Montage (one?), are just superbly playable!
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So is their any vintage synth that hasn't been virtualised? Would you wake if you heard an authentic virtual version of your dream synth?
I remember owning a Roland SH5 back in the early 80's . It's signature sound at the time was the ring modded dual oscillator with mega portamento!
Gives me shivvvers down the spine when I hear that! (Not necessarily in a good way)
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3 hours ago, RandyFF said:
Hmmmm.... sounds like you've been spending too much time at the PianoWorld forum! Overall, I find this forum to be much friendlier and have fewer of the folks who obsess on some topics!
Yes, it pains me to hear you say that. I've come away with some pretty awful feelings over some conversations I've had there. My musical world is far broader than just piano, and I find it frustrating banging my head against a wall with obsessed individuals, whom dissect my every sentence. 🫠 Heck, I'm not even a fan of one brand!
3 hours ago, RandyFF said:But there are DP actions, as you've found, that bring great playing satisfaction and expressivity! I've played enough lousy AP actions with sound quality that was lacking that I'm mostly content with DPs as a competent and often superior replacement, esp living in a small apartment where even an upright would definitely not work!
That's why I say I stopped comparing the DP's with Acoustics. I see them as different and complimentary experiences. Also why I enjoy sitting down at different instruments.
It's horses for courses, and I'm grateful that they do all provide contrasting experiences.
I like the GT, because its feel suits my playing style and muscle tone. But I also like to exercise my hands on my MP7SE until it bugs me, and lately I've got back into playing around with the Montage8 Balanced Hammer Effect. They're all so different, and it's refreshing to my hands to go between them.
I hope you like the GT, I'm sure it's not for everyone, but it is the reason I don't miss my MP11SE.
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2 hours ago, RandyFF said:
I'm surprised though that it's not anything like your acoustic grand.
It's not unlike "a piano weighted action", it just has a different feel to "my" Kawai Millenium III action. The GT has quite a pronounced solid bottoming and a fairly simplistic feeling hinge perception, whereas my acoustic feels like there's a lot going on behind the keys, different little forces feedbacking to my fingers in different areas of the motion. (I don't know if that makes any sense, it can be misleading to describe). I mean, my acoustic action doesn't feel like other branded acoustics I've played either, so I wouldn't extrapolate my description to the GT relative to all actions. I think too, like all my digital actions, the feeling of simplicity also relates to the fact that my acoustic action allows my fingers to feel the hammers and string vibrations, not just hear them like on a digital. Anyway...that's all been discussed ad nauseam already😑
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3 hours ago, kanefsky said:
The point of the MIDI Expression is that you can use whatever favorite pedal you might already have, or buy whatever favorite pedal you might want without having to worry about whether the pedal works with your current or any future keyboard. It also allows far more control over how the pedal responds than you would otherwise have (you can decide exactly where the half-pedal point is, for example).
The quad models also allow you to connect up to four pedals at once, which is much more than what most keyboards allow, and any or all of the four can be continuous pedals (either spring-loaded damper type pedals or "stays where you put it" expression type pedals).
I use one with my Kawai VPC1 with a Roland RPU-3 triple-pedal unit and a Kawai F-10H connected simultaneously. This gives me four damper-type pedals with optical sensors that all support the full continous range of MIDI values. Those pedals would be totally incompatible with the VPC1 without the MIDI Expression. The triple pedal that comes with the VPC1 is kind of junk in comparison and only one of them supports continuous values.
Yes, I see what you mean, missed the link to it before. It would be great if I only had a couple of pedals, and needed to use them on several keyboards. But, I have almost everything except a Yamaha half damper. If I could even buy it locally, it would cost me considerably more than one or two Yamaha pedals. The whole point for me is to be able use what I have without spending even more money. I don't need anymore pedals for anything else. I do like the idea of using my Kawai GFP3 on everything. But again, I have so many choices already. Maybe one day, when I get bored with what I have I might look at how I can get hold of one 🤔
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10 minutes ago, kanefsky said:
You can easily calibrate the MIDI Expression to handle the different values and customize the response curve however you like without having to know what the specific values actually are.
yes, but I don't have a spare expression pedal to do this with. I only have half dampers lying around. I do have a Yamaha expression, which I need for controlling the animation on the Montage. Unless I'm not understanding, the other thing is I am not attracted to using an expression type centre pivot pedal for damper. I prefer the traditional end pivot piano style pedal, like on my acoustic. Otherwise I'm half pedaling with my heel as well. If I was to go out and purchase another expression for this I might as well buy a
Yamaha half damper for less money. If I'm reading your comment correctly.
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20 hours ago, kanefsky said:
MIDI Expression will work with almost any pedal that uses 1/4" connectors. It gets more complicated if you're talking about triple-pedal units that use a single connector.
Thanks for the general info sheet by the way. What I really needed was the actual values of components of specific manufacturers pedals/requirements, and that's what's difficult to come by. Fortunately for me, a screwdriver and multimeter gives me what I want to know anyway. Just a bit of a nuisance to have to do it. I did pull apart the single pedal which comes with the MP7SE. (I had since bought an optical 3 pedal unit for the 7SE, as I grew to like the one that I sold with my MP11SE), but was heartened to see, while not an optical also, the single did use hall effects switches, rather than mechanical pots, making it more physically reliable in the long term. But of course, it would have been too much mucking around to adapt it to to Yamaha.
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4 hours ago, RandyFF said:
@ DeltaJockey,
I’m still hoping you’ll give a more in-depth review of your playing experience with the GT. I asked you for more input a few pages back, you seemed to be saying much the same as a post from PianoWorld I had shared, but you never confirmed or elaborated.
And, apropos the discussion on this page, what would you say about the importance of setting the Velocity and Sensitivity on the GT- did you find that made a big difference in its playability? I’d love to play a GT!
I love my X 73 so much I want to upgrade to the X 88- I keep on reaching for notes that aren’t there! A good problem to have, it means I’m really digging into the board. Unfortunately the weight of the GT makes it out of the question, no matter how good the keybed-
Sorry, I was away for a bit then forgot your request in all the traffic on this thread😶
I haven't played the TP110 in the Numa X's, so I can't make a direct comparison with my GT. What I can say, is that I agree with the positive reviews. I find it one of the most enjoyable and least tiring actions to play for longer than many of my others. It is fast and nimble, the key's static down weight is on the lighter side, but has decent dynamic mass behind it, with a feeling of substantial solidness within the keys. (not unlike blocks of wood).
Yes, it does feel a little different to most other actions at first, but I think, in a good way. It is not really anything like my acoustic grand, and less so than my other digital actions, but I stopped trying to mimic the real acoustic a long time ago. It simply is a pleasure to play, and keeping in mind it has to also have the nimbleness to cope with the entire library of sounds on board, I think it is a good compromise.
I've found the velocity settings to be just perfect on the default normal setting with no offset. It is so responsive that to go for a lighter touch would make it too sensitive for my playing. The harder setting is unresponsive for me however, and the resulting strike from my fingers causes the bottoming thud to be more noticeable.
I tend to regularly play a number of different actions, as it exercises a range of muscle variation for me, so I don't find any of my keys to be a problem with the normal velocity settings. I just think there is no point of reference for this in my application, as I spend a lot of time using the action on vst's which are about as consistent as a road full of pot holes, when it comes to standardising velocity response.
I don't gig with my gear, but it is quite heavy for it's size, so I don't plan on traveling much with it, despite some original plans to do so. I like that it's solid though.
After many months of owning it, I am still very much in positive territory overall.
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On the subject of pedals, having the pedal config setting in the Numa is great, and I'm not sure what parameters are different between A and B, but it surely has to be more than polarity. Pedal compatibility has been a real beef of mine, as I have so many pedals in my drawer, and always seem to not be able to match what I want to a particular board. Yamaha to me, is the worst offender, not even having polarity sensing. I was recently wanting another half pedal sustain for my Montage, as I don't have a Yamaha branded one, but have many others. I managed to get the Roland DP10 to work in switch mode, and have a couple of Korg DS1H's, as well as a Casio.
So I decided to pull them all apart and draw schematics with the intent of rewiring one to suit the Yamaha, as getting the wiring info is all but impossible anyway.
Cutting a long story short, every manufacturer uses custom made components for their half damper pedals, not off the shelf stuff. Korg use a 50k pot, and only use 25k range in the opposite direction to Roland, which is a range of 10K. I thought I might modify the Casio switch damper, as it is the opposite polarity to Yamaha. But no, the switch is a 2 contact normally open, rather than a changeover, so couldn't even swap the open to closed contacts. I'm stopping short of buying the pot or switch I need, and replacing it. I might as well just spend the money toward a Yamaha pedal! I've shortened the story somewhat as why I'm needing to do this, but suffice to say, I don't want thousands of dollars worth of pedals sitting in my drawers, when a particular keyboard is long gone.
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I'm so sorry to hear what has happened. You are far from alone, and how you feel is understandable, and exactly how any decent person in this situation would feel. I am constantly reading stories in my local media about the prevalence of this happening, and case stories of highly savvy and educated people having the same thing happen, because of an unfortunate combination of circumstances allowing them to let their guard down. You can't be on alert 100 percent of the time, and you risk genuine enquiries if you are always suspicious. Like yo said, it's the "out of routine" red flags you chose to ignore, because you were feeling optimistic and trusting.
Only today did I decide to advertise my Korg D1, within minutes of listing it, I only had messenger replies form scammers. In my case very predictable, and I sometimes make entertainment fodder of them, by leading them along, and wasting their time. Even though it matters not to them if I do that, it provides me a sense of personal revenge gratification. Who knows if in the end I make a sale, as the market seems quite depressed lately with our cost of living.
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When I bought my GT, I felt the same about its action compared to my MP11SE. I ended up selling the MP11SE, and haven't missed it a single day! But to be fair, selling it was mostly about it's effect on my wrist and hand health than the playing experience, because I found the GT to be much easier on my hands.
I still have the MP7SE, but that's for a contrasting experience.
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I was considering making a mini stand from a couple of cheap camera tripods from ebay with a beam and cross pieces of some sort between them. Mainly for the fact that they are foldable and height adjustable. Just a thought that might provide some inspiration. 👍
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21 minutes ago, RandyFF said:
Is the Studiologic Mixface designed to integrate with the Numa X Pianos like it does with their controller boards?
It's my understanding that it is. It plugs into the DAW not the keyboard, so the Numa X 88 pianos having identical top panel space and case shape, I see it sitting there just the same as on the SL controllers. Not sure if there is enough space on the 73's. Perhaps a 73 owner would know. Have been considering one for my GT, but some reviews say the controls are a bit wobbly. Still might get one though.
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Very enlightening!
I've always been impressed with the personal disposition of Fatar, despite being a moderately large business, they seem to still have a humble family business attitude, and are happy to share the intricacies of their daily operation with us mere mortal public. After seeing all these goodies, it makes me want to buy one of everything😀
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Rarely do I find the opinions of others reflect my own feelings about a particular keyboard. I've always just put it down to the fact that I'm different to the mainstream, if there's even such a thing.🤔 But then again we're all different, so we all have the difference in common.😄
When I bought my Montage8, it came with a licence for a specific Montage version of SampleRobot. I have some of my own libraries on Montage of favorite programs from my Kronos. Unlike the the Kronos, multisample management on Montage/MODX if I recall, is only done on computer based apps like Samplerobot, you then export it to a Montage/MODX library/performance file. I'm not a guru on this stuff though.
Rumors: Yamaha Montage successor
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Well, my M8x was delivered yesterday! I had a bit of a heart in the throat moment at first. When the delivery person pulled it out of the truck, there were two holes in the carton where the forklift teens had penetrated. I was really hoping I wouldn't be waiting for another one. Interestingly, the Montage came direct from the Yamaha distributor.
Anyway, luckily it had missed the synth by a small margin, and when pulling it out of the box it was in perfect condition ☺️
My first impressions...
I really love the darker casing, (was getting a bit tired of the older metallic grey). It contrasts well with the white and red lettering and the array of colored lights. It's the same dimensions exactly as my old Montage8, so slotted into it's new home with no mods to the cabling runs at all. Still looks like the mother ship.
To address some of the chatter about the display. The main display resolution in my opinion, is absolutely fine, I don't think there was any need for a higher resolution than previous. The font sizes are great to my ageing eyes. I love the new browser format, so much easier to scroll through. Much of the other screen info is similar to the previous, only different colors. The background is now black rather than grey. Definitely and improvement there.
The action is as others have said, very nice. It's quick, solid and responsive. Interesting, I see a bit of a trend in keybed feel emerging in the industry. It has a similar free dynamic momentum to the keys... like my Numa X GT. To me, there are more similarities than differences to the Numa X GT. It is a bit noisier on the bottoming than the old Montage BHE, but not of concern to me. There are more velocity curves than the older action. The PAT has a number of pressure settings too. It's too early to tell how much I'll like the action, but my gut feeling is that I will not look back.
I can definitely tell that there aren't any rubber sensors. There's no subtle rubbery sticky feel/sound when pressure comes of the keys like the older actions.
Trills seem about the same as my other 3 sensor actions, (not that I'm overly skilled at this), but they are easier to achieve than on the BHE.
The uprgraded DAC audio performance is detectable to my ears. I have the M8x plugged directly into a set of Genelec 8040's. The sound has noticeably less distortion, with a very clear solid punch. Phase linearity is obviously also improved, as the stereo imaging is just spectacular! Especially the upper bass, lower mids.
Most of my old favorite performances are still onboard, but I think a few are missing, (unless I haven't found them yet), so will have to load them as user libraries. Some of the old performances have had a few tweaks, and sound a bit different.
Am I glad I upgraded? Well yes, I think I've benefited from enough improvements to justify the expense. As long as I can manage to recover some of the expenditure by selling my old M8.
I haven't any time yet to delve into the ANx. The presets certainly sound nice, and to my ears are certainly differentiated from sampled analog! Both in sound and control.
Now that I have the beast in my hands, I don't think any speculative criticism that's occurred is justified. It is nice machine, and has enough improvements to be considered a successor to the old Montage.
BTW, when I first turned it on, I forgot about the fan conversations. I had been playing around with it for a hour, then remembered about it. I had to put my ear to the casing to hear it, and at first thought, is there a fan or not, I think there is. Like all smart systems these days, it's intelligently controlled and may not always be running.
So, just my very quick first impressions, and just my own opinions on the the attributes which are important to me.