DeltaJockey
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Posts posted by DeltaJockey
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8 hours ago, Dockeys said:
Yes this is what I meant. Currently you can only buy the software if you own the hardware montage right? I thought they were looking at releasing it as a piece of software in its own right without the need to own an actual montage. It would probably scupper sales too much I’d imagine so I won’t hold my breath.
You don't actually have to buy the software, it's free to all Montage M owners. You're purchasing it as a package. My guess is, once the hardware has run the course, they may eventually make it available to everyone to purchase.
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Or, do you mean the software being available to separately purchase without having to own the hardware?
I don't think they've ever hinted at a standalone purchase any time soon.
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So, I decided to purchase a Numa X 73 to provide a tabletop addition to my GT. I've very happy with it as expected. I've noticed though, an interesting quirk, possibly from the firmware upgrade, but have yet to try it on the GT.
I discovered that I get double note offs consistently but it seems to come in and out in batches. I've been playing around with ways to octave shift. As it doesn't have dedicated buttons for this. I saved 2 zones as MIDI USB out's, for sending to DAW, one with an octave shift down, as that's the direction I use most.
I thought at first I'd left both zones on, which would do it, but I discovered that even with all zones off, meaning no note on's, I still get 2 note offs, which the double offs is eliminated by a reboot. Then switching between zones brings it back again, even a program with only internals sounds and no MIDI zone still does it.
Wondered if anyone else might see this, otherwise sounds like a query for Gianni.
...sorry, this is probably in the wrong thread. It's not a topic of Numa and Organ functionality, I can't seem to delete posts anymore.
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2 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:
Interesting about the Korgs. I mentioned that I think the EPs in SV1 and Grandstage play especially well because of release velocity, and related to that, it has been problematic when I wanted to trigger their sounds from some other board. If that other board sent a constant 64 RV, you'd get way too much release noise when playing quietly (and from what you're saying, that 64 actually equates to the max level!), and I assume if it sent zero, you wouldn't get those noises at all.
........That's how I would expect it to behave too.
I wonder what happens if you attach a controller like Numa X which send up to 127 to one of those Korgs. I expect you'd get "full volume" release noise at half the max release velocity (64), but that may or may not mean it sounds noticeably off ("too much too soon"), and similarly, I wonder what the Korg does when you send it release velocities 65-127. (i.e. are the all interpreted as the same as the max level of 64, or are they ignored and essentially turn into zero, or does the Korg start generating the sounds at louder levels than you could ever get from its own keys?)
.......From my experience I think anything from 64 onwards would equate to a max of 64. I have a foot controller with a potentiometer adjuster where you can compress the range to suit. I find it useful when using it to control the expression on orchestral libraries, in parallel with the Mod wheel. It allows much shallower expression ranges to suit the libraries.
It's not a totally academic question ("why not just play those boards from their own keys?")... I sometimes play a board's sounds from a different keyboard just for logistic/ergonomic reasons (i.e. based on where my various boards are physically located relative to each other). And a topic for another thread... I've been experimenting with turning Grandstage into a module! But worst case, something like a MIDI Solutions box (or some app) could presumably scale the Numa's 0-127 (14-127, whatever 🙂 ) to 0-64.
...I use the modifier function in Logic to scale and offset controller inputs between controller and vst's. I don't think this use case would be that uncommon. I haven't had the need, but think I could use the Logic function between 2 hardware synths if need be.
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Just now, CyberGene said:
Makes sense, indeed I misinterpreted your words.
Kudos to Studiologic to actively work on delivering new features and sensor detection logic (even though it should have been there since the beginning but then, how many times did the big names fix known issues in their products?).
I think there's some psychological benefit in feeding us periodic improvements over time rather than giving us perfection from the start!
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9 minutes ago, CyberGene said:
@DeltaJockey the question is about Note-Off values (release velocity), not Note-On (strike velocity). The release velocity is helpful in achieving piano realism because it will affect the release portion of the sound (the tail) depending on whether you released quickly (following a staccato) or slowly for smoother transitions between notes in a phrase. These are subtle effects that may go unnoticed and utilized more in solo classical piano but are nevertheless part of a good piano emulation.
Yes, I understand this, I think I'm not articulating my words well today. 🤔......In order to achieve my highest note off value numerically, I had to flick the key down and let go as hard as I could. (in an absolute staccato fashion. I found that if I hold the key down, then letting go hard was not enough to achieve a value of 127. Probably my own technique was the problem, but that is immaterial to what I was trying to achieve.
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5 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:
I can confirm that the Numa X piano transmits 0 - 127 release velocity, as per MIDI message monitor in my DAW.
Sorry, correction, (a bit sloppy with my previous description), looking closer it is correct that the minimum is 14. (approx 14-127) is what I got in practice without destroying the felts and sensor at the top end of a note hit!
My point is that it transmits functionally a full range compared to the other manufacturers I quoted.
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5 hours ago, AnotherScott said:
I didn't see it listed in the specs, and (surprisingly) there does not seem to be a MIDI implementation chart, but it sounds like it does have it,
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25 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:
don't know about Kronos' release velocity function, but release velocity is something apart from attack/release controls. I am curious about the Numa X release velocity functionality, though. I didn't see it listed in the specs, and (surprisingly) there does not seem to be a MIDI implementation chart, but it sounds like it does have it, based on this post:
Sorry, I think I left a word out there, as it was supposed to be attack/release velocity, not AR in relation to envelope! I can confirm that the Numa X piano transmits 0 - 127 release velocity, as per MIDI message monitor in my DAW. I can also confirm that not only the Kronos, but my Korg Keystage also transmits only 0 - 64. I think it must be standard for Korg to only output a compressed range of release velocity values. I cans see their logic in designing it this way, but for many other sound source expressions, it is nice to have the full range. If I remember correctly, my Roland RD88 also sends the full 0 - 127 Release values. The Montage M8x GEX keybed doesn't support variable release velocity at all and transmits a fixed 64.
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I've never been a fan of sterile Steinway D libraries from anyone, but I have to say this offering from SL is, in other folk on here's words "superb". When playing fast arpeggiations and 2 fisted chords, it really has that luxurious rich concert sound. In playing it on my GT, it makes the perfect marriage of software with hardware!
So much so, that I've been pondering the idea of getting a Numa X 73 for its portability and as a compact controller, now that the firmware upgrade has improved the action response even further, so have gone ahead and ordered one I saw on special.
I don't know how long it will be before they release the final version of the D, but like others, I installed it on my GT and forgot to keep the downloaded binary. So when the 73 arrives, I might ask one of you for the favor, if you still have it.🙏
One of the things which I have been trying to come to terms with, is being a pianist who plays occasionally to C1, have been revisiting my transpose techniques for transparently overcoming this without 88. As it was my challenge with my historical 73 and 76's.
In playing around,
I discovered an interesting bug on the Numa Piano, which I'd be curious to know if other folk can make it happen. I wouldn't classify it as needing a fix, because it goes beyond what is the normal operational limits.
With the Steinway B Tape program, do an octave transpose down to about -3 (-36) and see what you get when playing in the C1 to C3 area on the keyboard. (Oh, and perhaps keep the volume down a bit)
i won't describe what I found yet, but it startled the devil out me!
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9 hours ago, AnotherScott said:
They could use felts to silence them before they were even sampled.
That's assuming they are capturing the samples with modeled duplex in mind. If they're using old reprocessed samples from rejuvenated libraries, they might not have the luxury. I have the Studiologic Steinway B Tape in mind when I say that, because to me "Tape" implies it's a historic library.
I do agree with you then, that it comes down to selecting the mode which best sound right to you as the end result.
Anyway, it's just technical gossip. I can vouch for the excellent sounding pianos in the Numa X!
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I've always wondered about duplex modelling applied to sampled pianos. (but not fully modeled pianos), In that it's likely that the notes of the real piano being sampled already have duplex harmonics captured in the samples? Unless they deliberately process the sample set to remove the recorded duplex, you might have duplex overtones applied to duplex overtones?
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On 8/26/2024 at 11:27 AM, ElmerJFudd said:
It’s interesting that the RD88 is 6.31” high where the RD2000 only requires 5.51” in height. A bit more than an inch difference.
For comparison CK88 is 5.8” high, while the CP88/YC88 is 5.5”/5.6” high. So very minor differences in height.Yeah, I put that down to the fact that the RD2000 goes back further, allowing more horizontal for the hammer mechanism, rather than like the RD88 needing more depth under for the folded part of the action, (and speakers). Not sure of the rational for Yamaha, though they both start at a fairly slim height, and both have more backward depth than the RD88. The alternative is to have them slim in height and backward depth like the Casio, and have annoyingly short pivot lengths.
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Every time a new version of Kontakt comes out, it reminds me of the importance of always keeping a few hardware synths and keyboards with bread and butter sounds.
I've invested a lot in third party Kontakt plugins, because of the convenience of the NKS standard, but I have to confess, I'm more than a little nervous about their commitment to supporting older plugins down the road with each major update.
Same goes for my operating system. I guess I might just get to a point where I'll "freeze" my Mac to a point in time, and disconnect it from the network, so I can treat it, and the software like another synth, and hopefully get many more years out of it. That's all assuming, I still have a vested interest in all that old software, and don't succumb to more GAS
I suppose music gear is like pay the utilities bills, a never ending and ongoing cost for the privilege of leading a comfortable life!
Purchased KU14 Ultimate Collectors last year, so I hope, good to go for another couple of versions.
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Did the update. I don't know whether I'm becoming more accustomed to how Studiologic software operates, or their flow and ease of use has become more streamlined, ( a bit of both I suspect), but the firmware update was absolutely flawless. The prompts and actions were all in the right place at the right time, and visual feedback was excellent.
Not had time to delve too deeply, but the already excellent pianos do seem more natural. Can't fault the keybed velocity response so far either.
Well done👍
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I like the horizontal compactness of the RD88, but as a weighted action, the tradeoff is the bulky height, (also to house the speakers). It sits very high on stands compared to other weighted boards I have.
I have to have the stands as low as possible to help with this. I sometimes put it on one of those apex style stands, because they allow continuous height adjustment.
In a side profile, the RD88 looks like a keyboard sitting in a long plastic bucket
But in practice, it is very manage-ably light, and the depth of the ribbing/bracing because of it's height makes it very rigid.
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10 hours ago, mcgoo said:
Roland wasn't the only culprit. There's folklore about the Yamaha CP-70B manual's instructions on how to assemble the legs to the bottom half (keyboard). Evidently the author chose a slang word for "screw" although they apparently didn't know that the slang version referred to a different kinda screw: "f*ck the legs into the case"...
Giving credit where it's due, I couldn't remember the exact quote. This has been discussed before, so I found it here:
Reminds me of an instruction manual for an old compressor motor I used to own. The Jinglish talked of faults occurring in the motor as "rotating mistakes".
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I've pondered the same observation. For me, the reality is that all I really need is one decent controller or hardware synth with my best action, a powerful computer loaded with all my favorite libraries, and..just as important, a decent monitor/sound system optimized for the room.
My GAS has been quite sever over the years, but inevitably I cull the stuff I don't use or becomes redundant/grow tired of.
My current iteration is, Montage M8x, with a Mac studio and several decent immersive Genelec monitors/subs in a sufficiently treated room.
With some other hardware stored away until needed.
With that, I can achieve more than my one life will ever have time for😒
I guess many of these enthusiasts/professionals? are probably into collecting for it's own sake, I get that. They like having their own museum or potentially future museum of gear.
On a related gripe. It constantly amuses me how many demo folk, and advertising bods, have gear setup in such a way that looks impressive, but the ergonomics is way too unrealistic! I spend far too much time thinking about how I can make my workflow as effortless ergonomically as possible, as not every piece of gear can be center stage simultaneously and the less gear you are surrounded by, the less of a problem that is!
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I remember back in the 70's, I had a copy of Isao Tomita's Pictures at an Exhibition on a JVC CD4 discrete quadraphonic record. I used to sit there amongst all my speakers playing at high volume with it beating my chest. It was truly spectacular in surround back then.
The heavy symphonic classics he did were truly inspirational achievements for demonstrating what synths could do for symphonic classicals.
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41 minutes ago, Justin Havu said:
I've tried every velocity curve and offset combination I could think of to really lighten the touch on the PHA-4, and I just couldn't come up with anything that responded to my playing. I haven't had to do a thing with the M8x; it just responds beautifully to my playing at the default curve. Too bad no one makes an action as light to the touch and as fluid as the GEX keybed.
If I go for a while without playing the PHA4, I do find it sluggish, but after a bit of exercise on it, I don't notice it anymore, and it can be satisfyingly nimble.
What instruments you play and style of course have a bearing on its abilities though.
Interestingly, I've previously mentioned that the Numa X GT has a very similar action feel to the GEX. Quick, nimble, well balance weight and expressive. Must be a recent trend in some manufacturers of the latest actions.
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48 minutes ago, Justin Havu said:
Another big issue are the pianos. In some of the lower range and somewhere between C5-C6, they tend to sound a bit on the synthetic side, rather than natural, which further cements my distaste for the SN pianos, even the new one.
I've never been that fussed with Roland pianos for that reason. The RD88 makes a good lightweight weighted action controller for me, so I don't use the onboard sounds all that much. I was wondering about the SN Piano 3, and whether the upgrade was worth it for getting a "better" onboard piano, but I'm finding it hard to locate any meaningful auditions online, as the playing examples are all the same tired jazzy demo stuff which hides the true nature of the note characteristics. So probably not worth the EX software upgrade to me.
To me also, the thing which lets the SN pianos down, is not the realism of the tones, or expressiveness, but the general spatial ambience is dull, when compared to my best samples libraries, and indeed my real acoustic.
I have found as a controller, the PHA4 slowness, is quite well overcome with a lighter velocity setting, and I find this makes it quite sensitive for fast playing, as I don't have to get the key all the way to the bottom quite as much. I treat the RD88 for what it is, as I can't go carting the M8x around everywhere.
I agree, the playability of my M8x is far greater than the Roland action by far, and the pianos on the Montage have a nicer realism.
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Can't see any hardware differences between my RD88 and the RD88ex. It just seems to be the extra pianos? (oh it must weigh 2mg more from the EX paintwork added) 😁
I logged into Roland cloud, and there wasn't even the upgrade path listed as yet. I just at least wanted to see how much it would cost for the extra pianos. Seems the companies are playing really cautious with new hardware lately.
I sense an atmosphere in the discussion here reminiscent of the disappointment when the RD08 vs RD88 first came out a few months ago. I just can't imagine spending the money on an RD08 when the RD88 is more complete for not much more. Am I missing something here?
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Just watching this, has me realize the things which Ai will be used for that we haven't even thought of yet, really creeps me out!
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Yes, getting closer to replicating many of the Kronos engines. However, my interest in Kronos emulation, is actually not the engines per se, as I have most of this now with the legacies, but the ability to load the third party Kronos libraries into a vst, DAW etc. Of course many of them are just HD-1 libraries, so just simple playback attached to the Kronos controller function emulation is all I need.
Having said that, I recently decided to sell my Kronos, along with all my paid libraries, I just wasn't using it all that much. I had intended to keep it for many years because of my extra libraries, but vst's have come a long way since purchasing them, and I was finding I have better alternatives in vst's now anyway. So thought I'd off-load it before it started having age related problems. So far, I'm not missing it👍
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Montage M 2.0 Update Coming Soon
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Oh yes, I remember that, I contributed a few thoughts too. The whole conversation like most of its type was all speculative. And I don't think there's been any more developments since, to change any of that speculation, other than lots of water under the bridge may eventually have them decide to release it to everyone.