DeltaJockey
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Posts posted by DeltaJockey
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Novation Summit for me too, it's easy to be romantic over yesteryears tech, but this is the best of both worlds and analog enough for me in this day and age👍
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2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:
The A800 Pro is a controller only and its DIN midi in is pretty useful imo. You can merge data coming in through there with what you're playing on the keyboard and send the combined data out one of the USB midi ports or the DIN midi out.
The A800 also needs its DIN midi in if you connect it to a computer over a midi interface and want to use the editor software - bidirectional communication is required for the editor to work.
Yes of course, I meant other than a MIDI merger, central routing point for other connected devices, if that's what you were inferring. I remember in the early 90's building myself a MIDI switch/router rack mount unit. It was very very useful, and saved a lot of plugging in and out, and reconfiguring. I did elude to the MIDI in to USB functionality in one of my comments for the Keystage. Maybe a firmware update?
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On 3/15/2024 at 2:00 AM, Stokely said:
There's a note in the manual that the aftertouch can wear out? Wow. I owned a Virus that at the time was about 15 years old and pretty obviously used (if not abused) and the aftertouch worked great. Granted, it was regular channel aftertouch. If the manufacturer is admitting that up front that would have me worried.
There doesn't see to be any complaints with any channel aftertouch tech, reliability wise. I have an 8 year old Kronos, and there's nothing wrong it's Channel AT. Likewise any other synths with ch AT I've had has never been an issue. My Summit, is as good as new, and the has reference feel for me deciding to purchase the Keystage. There's obviously been some practicalities with PAT on some synth actions. Look at Yamaha only releasing it on the GEX, I guess with some mileage already from the larger digital pianos. No one though, complains of Hydrasynth action failures. I don't recall anyone complaining about the Ensoniq PAT in terms of reliability, though it apparently was too touchy.
But the 80's synth keybeds were somewhat heavier and more robust in general.
It will be interesting to see how they stand up in the field.
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7 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:
Had a response from Korg UK about the midi:
"Hi Paul, The MIDI In/Out ports on the Keystage are designed so the Keystage can control/play other hardware units. Currently, data received through the MIDI In port cannot be routed to the USB MIDI port.
When both MIDI In/Out ports are connected to MIDI 2.0 device like the wavestate, for example, there will be directional communication between the devices and the controls on the Keystage will be automatically assigned to most commonly used parameters."
They then referred me to the manual which was not much help, but it seems that the midi in is only to connect to the device also connected to the midi out to make a bidirectional communication. I just assumed this was done via one cable.... Im still curious if Midi in goes to midi out and will see what they say about that, but I expect that midi port is just for some sort of future use.
Wouldnt really hurt to put that in the manual. It makes me fear that they might still be making this stuff up with Midi 2.0 as they go along 😞
I think that's perfectly logical. There'd be no other reason for a MIDI in DIN on a controller only. It's just an addition to support MIDI 2.0 devices with DIN ports I suppose.
Another reason why this controller is a bit more expensive than other run of the mill controllers. Cost of an extra port other controllers don't have.
Will be interesting to see if other manufacturers start following with similar products
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oh ok.
btw I meant 3d print. You probably knew I meant that! Yeah good idea. I have my shelf on the right hand side because of the laptop. A centre hook for me could be handy.😀
Let me know how it turns out.
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19 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:
That spare slot on the back for the expansion plate (61 key), and the trailing wires was bugging me so.....
Did you laser print that?
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9 hours ago, AnotherScott said:
I mentioned how a Montage "Waveform" is something that, itself, contains a number of what we normally call waveforms and how the board requires you to employ both meanings, a complication that could easily have been avoided by not using a word to mean something that already means something else. (What they misleadingly call a Waveform could have been called, say, a Waveset or something along those lines.)
I suppose you could argue that the "collection" of waveforms is a complex waveform in the same context as a complex waveshape can be broken down into a fourier series of sinewaves
🤫
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14 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:
@DeltaJockey I'm away from home but pondering some connection options. Any idea how the Midi in works? Does it transmit incoming data to either midi out or over USB (or both?)
It's not covered at all in the manual as far as I can see.
Actually, I have no idea. When I get a chance I'll have a bit of a look. Wouldn't it just merge with midi in USB? Without looking, I'm guessing they appear as separate ports in the MIDI setup app. I don't have an application for midi in atm.
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Yes, one thing I don't like is those keys with the bendy plastic hinges. I'm pretty sure this is a proper key hinge. It certainly feels like it. I would hope Korg have learnt the lesson from a few years back when they put those horrible thin twisty keybeds in the likes of the KingKorg, Krome 61, and Kross 61.
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It just looks like a server problem, similar to what has happened many times over the years. It'll probably get fixed before long and all will be well.🤞
I know in the past It's sometimes taken James some time to get a round to dealing with it.
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Glad you like it so far. Your application with it is a bit different to mine. I will only be using it with a Macbook. Sounds like you may not be using the 2 week return then 😀
If you think this keybed is a little noisy, I have a Nektar which I'm trying to offload. Though the key response is acceptable, the clacking makes it unusable even with headphones.
I think the keystage is about as quiet as it gets from today's mid quality synth actions. Yes, I can slap keys when playing rapidly, but it's a little more of a muted sound than many other unacceptable actions.
Just remember to go easy on the AT pressure. For some odd reason, they make a note in the manual that it can wear out if abused too heavily. Hmm, I wonder what the call heavy? I have my AT sensitivity set quite high, which doesn't seem to interfere with my general playing. In anycase, most of my patches don't respond to AT anyway, so having the sensitivity high isn't a problem.
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I still own the Summit, but sold the Hydrasynth some time back. Certainly the Summit key plastics feel and look identical, even in shape to the Keystage. I think I recall the Hydrasynth feeling the same.
I've not heard the talk of it just being licenced, so you may be up on this more then me. In any case, it feels ok to me, whoever produced it.
I don't use the producer bundle, but I believe it is missing some modules from the paid version. You would see this by looking at the Korg site.
The Wavestate LE is fully loaded, the only limitation is the one instance.
One thing I like about the controller knob array, is that the whole 128 cc parameters are just a few clicks away. though you can re-assign them in what ever order you like.
I like the 16 scenes you can store with different combinations of controller mapping. I pretty universal way of setting these things up these days.
I don't tend to use the arp or chord functions, and mainly just get into playing it, when I'm not enjoying my Montage M8x 😀
I hope you enjoy it. I will be interested in your experience with it too.
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I find the 61 to be a good size for "sketchpadding" around the house too. As I was saying before, 49 wouldn't be enough for me even if I only had enough room for that. I need something long enough to use for both handed arps or chords with piano.
I might add, that I think it is a good keybed for a synth action, but it IS still a compromise compared to a weighted action for piano, not so much a compromise in its expressiveness, but the weighting balance to the fingers. Interestingly, with the way I have the velocity settings, the key triggering is really quite sensitive, and triggers quite high up for a non weighted action. The sensor must be placed quite early in the travel. Korg seem to be pretty skilled at getting good responses from 2 sensor actions, as the RH3 in my opinion is better than some 3 sensor actions, which may be better for re-triggering, but the initial trigger can be quite low down making it feel a bit dulled.
It's the same keybed as my Novation Summit, and Hydrasynth, which was my way of making the decision to buy the Keystage without trying it out first, as I was playing around with my Summit as a controller for a while, and managed to tweak it to my liking. The Keystage has more velocity adjustments than the Summit, which also only has channel aftertouch. Of course, it's only my opinion on this, it's feel may vary between folk, but the keys are definitely better than some of the cheap controller actions out there. I think anyone who owns a Summit, (or HydraSynth), would agree that the synth keybed is one of the better ones currently on offer.
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2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:
iRig Keys I/O - but I'm not a fan of non-standard connectors.
Yes, I would expect standard connectors, otherwise it sort of would defeat the simplistic goal I'm trying to achieve. Also, they are way too short keywise. 61 would be the minimum I'd settle for. This to me, is why the Keystage is attractive too, as for portability, it sits in the sweet spot. 88 synth keys can be a bit unwieldy for transport, 49 too restrictive for piano playing.
Then there's 73/76, but no compact controllers with that combination of features that I know of there either. I've yet to see someone produce a fold-up 88 with USB audio interface. Then again, the action would be lacking, so back to a decent 61 with good synth action.👍
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5 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:
Would you know if it can output midi over 5 pin DIN and USB at the same time?
Yes. As you should expect from a device that is also advertised as an on stage controller. I tried it with a MIDI connection to my Summit while playing a vst piano simultaneously on my laptop via usb.....so iPad and Grandstage would be the textbook application from Korg!
5 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:(also, do any other controller boards integrate audio over USB?)
Other than digital pianos, I know of no other controller with this. The last lightweight keyboard that came the closest to this for me was the Numa Compact 2X.
This is one of the things I have been wishing for a long time. A controller only and all it's associated functionality with a built in interface. For me the point was to have full studio functionality condensed into a single package. The Keystage and its included shelf, Laptop sitting on it, and a pair of headphones, (or small monitors), gives me motel style fully functional studioness, in a small case. Which is why I was hoping the action was the thing that wouldn't let me down. Thankfully, Its' good to me.
This in my view is why it appears a little more expensive than some other controllers, except the NI KK Mk3. With the Komplete Kontrol, you can see out front what else you get for the extra money, but the Keystage benefits are more subtle, and you have to play with it to appreciate the niceties. Not forgetting too, the implementation of MIDI 2.0.
which I yet to have much use for. Though, Wavestate LE utilises it for the parameter display.
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I purchased one a while back. I asked some questions about it on this forum, but was met with silence too, so guessed no one else had any experience with them yet.
I think it's a well designed piece of kit for my application. For me it's a keeper. I got the 61 key version. The CC control array is well laid out, (very similar to the control panel on my Montage, including the sub display style of Oled), and most functions are easy to access. The keybed is very expressive for a synth action, even for piano. I have a DS1H half damper pedal plugged in, which it supports. It has a more than average amount of adjustablity with it's velocity curves. Medeli actions are surprisingly good in my opinion.
I don't use it with an iPad, only with a Macbook though. It self powers with no problems, and the built in USB audio is very convenient, (though only 16/44), giving me an incredibly compact, but fully functioning portable studio. Paired with my Montage ESP software, and the poly AT, it's my way of having a Montage M6x.
I do have the Korg legacy software, and I was way back considering purchasing the Wavestate native, so this was a way of getting the fully functioning version bundled in,
which does respond to PAT by the way.
When compared to the NI Komplete Control Mk3, if you don't need the large display, it's so much more compact, with similar functionality.
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9 hours ago, David Emm said:
I wish I could un-read that. I wanted to continue laboring under the illusion that the band was an endless fount of godly sound design on the fly. 🤨🤓
Sorry to burst your bubble
but they have gone through many phases in the life of the band. The improv days you talk of certainly were the original 70's era of the Froese/Franke/Baumann times.
The period I'm talking about was after Franke left, and from what I understand the band then became a trademark business venture, which I guess, it still is today, with Froese's son continuing the legacy.
Anyway, I have to wonder how many synth big name bands have techs to do the hard yards for them. Like every passion in life, once it becomes a big time career, it's more about the business and less about playing with toys.
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12 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:
but the extra elements per voice that make the primary piano not take up four slots
Yeah, agree there. I hated the way pianos were split like that. I did though, use the damper noise included with the Bose on one of my own piano libraries, which was kind of convenient.
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1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:
Yamaha used the word "waveform" to mean something different from what the word typically meant everywhere else...
I agree. Originally starting my career as a communications engineer, a waveform is just that! Not negotiable.
Subjectively, If I examine the way my mind works, I feel that Korg have the most traditional and logical style of work flow, with Roland a close second. I haven't owned a Kurzweil since the late 80's when I had a K1000, so am less conversant with their recent offerings. My sense, perhaps in ignorance, and being provocative, is that much of Yamaha's distorted terminology has been borne from when it developed it's FM synthesis. Maybe they had designs on shifting the axis of influence to them in the synth world. I remember seeing a V50 in the shop, (didn't have access to a DX7), and it's structure seemed to be so foreign compared to the Korg's and Rolands I was familiar with.
Agree, they have improved.
32 minutes ago, TJ Cornish said:however the M is a VASTLY better board than the original Montage
Having owned an original Montage8 and then upgrading to the M8x, I'm not convinced it is VASTLY superior. I suppose it depends on what aspects you are talking about, but so far I rate the original Montage overall to be at least 75% relative to the M.
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I'm probably not going to add too much of value here, as much as I'm an M8x owner, I don't tend to dive too much into the programming, though I agree the latest and first gen Montage have had the most difficult interfaces to learn of any keyboard I've had. I blame that on the totally orthogonal way Yamaha approach their terminology and programming flow compared to anyone else. I have to confess, I was only interested in the M8x primarily for the new action, so sadly I almost put myself into the category of having the most expensive keyboard controller, though it's the DAC's also that I was attracted to.
Having said all that, I have enough Montage libraries to keep me going for quite some time, and I do seem to be able somehow work out what I need to do, programming wise to get the results I need, but rather than sit down and try to work out the whole programming structure initially, I attack it one problem at a time as I need a particular function.
I too, feel I'm getting to an age where I'm a bit past having to strain the brain, so just sit back and often mindlessly tweak things without thinking too hard.
The discussion reminds me of many instances over the years, and the holy grail of a powerful synth with an easy operating system. I remember when the Roland FA0x's first came out, and they made a big fanfare about how the interface was much easier to use than the previous Fantoms. I remember it being pretty immediate to get to the parameters you wanted. Though disappointed they didn't have a touch screen.
The discussion here brings to mind an interview with Edgar Froese in the 80's about musicians and tech. TD by this stage didn't do a lot of sound design themselves apparently, and employed tech sound designers to fully understand a new synth, summarise it for the band members, and spend endless days creating new patches for the band to peruse and select what they wanted.
Perhaps the Montage is for musicians with tech engineers to support them 😀
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I find the temperatures depend on what drive is used, and what you are doing with it. Lots of sustained writing will lead to any SSD getting warm to hot. Reads, not so much.
I have some Crucial 1TB X8's which get almost too hot to hold when writing GB's of data to. But my Samsung T7 2TB's only get warm in that situation.
I've not had a drive fail yet due to sustained high temps, but they do lose performance when they get hot writing large amounts of sustained data. I often try to write in smaller chunks with a rest in between. Reading has never been a problem for me. And backup SSD's are ideal for active libraries, as once written, (apart from occasional incremental write updates or adding to), they are mainly used for only reading from, as their main application.
This is in contrast to using one as an operating system drive where it's being hammered in both directions.
If I remember, that's why good OS SSD's cost more, apart from speed there is a technology difference to the cheaper run of the mill backup SSD's.
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Interesting you talking about semi weighted for piano right now. I'm sitting here reading the forum, playing some nice Sptifire Audio Pianobook pianos on my Korg Keystage controller, and absolutely delighted with the synth action for piano. I'm now wishing they'd make an 88 key version, as it really ticks a lot of boxes for me, including being a Montage M6x with the polyphonic aftertouch👍
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Following on from our conversation the other day, I wonder if you could program one of the slider cc's for expression, and use it as a volume control.
I don't know why they put the volume on the right, where all the others Numa's are on the left, except it does follow signal path convention, but that means all the others don't.
I agree, semi weighted is a doable compromise for piano, and I think the Casio may be your "at certain times" alternative. Or maybe just play the Numa a bit more to get more used to it:)
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1 hour ago, Floyd Tatum said:
DeltaJockey: re your point about marketing it as a toy; if it would be useful to me, I wouldn't care about the marketing. It's not like I would be going on stage with it. 🤓
Yes, of course. It was more about the style of marketing itself at the time that I was meaning. I saw a number of advertisements when it was just released, not just the one above. The product itself I thought was nifty at the time, which is why I considered it for a specific purpose back then.
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Korg Keystage
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
The thought of the limitation had crossed my mind. I haven't really played with it all that much, and probably won't seriously get an essential amount of use from it, but had decided I was ahead by being able to play patches without the Try nag screen first. I decided that if I really started leaning on it, buying the full version would be worth it.
I do find this new rack version of the hardware Wavestate appealing down the track. And I'm pretty sure if you buy a hardware Wavestate of some kind, like Yamaha with the new Montage, you get a free copy of the full Wavestate. This probably doesn't help your dilemma, but I'm also not worried about polyphony or one instance, and probably won't be importing any external libraries any time soon.