DeltaJockey
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Posts posted by DeltaJockey
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23 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:
Thanks to this thread I learned quite a bit about the RD-88. The RD-08 (H8) not so much. 😀
I hope to try the Roland FP-E50 soon. I did a mini-shootout at the store between the Roland FP-90X and the Kawai ES-920 and found that I actually liked both Roland's PHA-4 keybed and Kawai's RHIII, even though they're quite different feeling keybeds. Both are vast improvements over my beat up old Casio Privia's. Now it could be the FP-90X had received enough wear and tear from visiting customers to break in its keybed as the PHA-4 is apparently notorious for an out-of-box stiff feel that loosens up after enough hours of playing.
I'll definitely ask for the RD-88 next time I visit the shop.
Well, I was always not a fan of the Roland actions like I said earlier, but I'm quite happy with the PHA4 on the RD88. It's far from my best fav, but the RD88 suits my lightweight weighted action that is compact lengthwise and fits in a bag which will sit across the back seat of my car. I find when first playing it in any given session, after using one of my other actions, you can feel the sluggishness, but you quickly become accustomed and don't notice it so much. The key sensitivity makes up for that a bit. I'm guessing the sensor is placed fairly close to the key latch, so you don't have to push as much through that sluggishness to get some quick expressiveness.
I agree, I also like the Kawai RHIII, even though it's different, I still quickly feel at home on it.
Along with the Roland 3 pedal unit, for me the RD88 is the best combination of features for it's weight and dimensions. I've not had the trouble with the display and menus like some people, and have always managed to work my way through getting the functions I want. Though it's mainly the controller/Mainstage functionality mode I use it in. I can do better sound wise externally.
Again my feeling is, given it's comparison, the RD08 inevitably would not get a favourable comment from me as existing RD88 owner, that's to be expected.
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35 minutes ago, CHarrell said:
They really should just call this thing the Roland-H8.
What's the significance of the H?
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8 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:
But they’ve been bated to get functional hardware that’s already there and to cross over to the dark side of cloud subscriptions… for a few dollars more.
Yes, we've discussed this over many times,
This type of behaviour triggers me into disliking a product even if it is a good one. One thing I can't stand is deception and trickery to coerce you into buying something you wouldn't be considering. Or, if it is something worthy of consideration, for me, this tactic destroys further interest.
Why do marketing dudes think we are as gullible as they are in believing trickery will sell the product like hot cakes? Why isn't it common knowledge that honest up front marketing will, in the long run give them a good reputation, holding them in good stead for future sales.
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Interestingly, my Montage M is financially modelled the other way. Pay a premium for the hardware, all functionality is available and additionally get the ESP vst for free.
I have to wonder whether Roland are putting their toe in the water with the RD08 to see what they can get away with for future financial models. Maybe the RD08 will sink, and they decide to then go another route.
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3 hours ago, niacin said:
maybe it’s like groceries and inflation, some have increased in price while others have kept the price point but shrunk the item by 20%, the latter being pretty much what’s happened with the RD-88 being replaced by the RD-08.
The thought also crossed my mind. Shrinkflation may have hit Roland now too. It will be interesting to see if future shipments of RD88's are more expensive than presently.
This would shift the mindset to a point where the RD08 appears a more cost effective offering.
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Listening to that last Kraft video, there was nothing much he described that was any different to the RD88, though he did seem impressed with the fact that it had a lesser number of controllers than on the RD88
, and was very excited about the "new" features already provided on the RD88. except he never mentioned that you have to enable features by paying more. He omitted the fact that all of the 3000 onboard sounds were not immediately accessible?
The more I listen to this marketing, the more I think omission to detail is a key part of the sell. As an existing RD88 owner, despite the advertising, I'm still confused about where it all sits in practice from a users point of view.
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3 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:
The RD-08 Upgrade is purchased through Roland Cloud and done via the Roland Cloud manager.
This is definitely a drop in entry price with a catch. If you want the RD-08 to do what it was designed to do (capabilities are there but turned off) owners have to make an account and a first purchase. In fact if you buy one lifetime key the upgrade grade is included.
Sound and feature upgrade for the RD-08 Stage Piano
SuperNATURAL Acoustic Piano 3
Apple MainStage integration
Support for Wave Expansions on Roland Cloud
USB audio interface capabilities
Upgrade available with a Lifetime Key purchase in Roland Cloud Manager
Wave Expansions are available with Roland Cloud membership or Lifetime Key purchases in Roland Cloud Manager.I can understand the attraction of all this if the RD08 was considerably cheaper than the RD88, but it's almost the same price. So it must just come down to the alternative set of features.
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27 minutes ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:
Ok you've convinced me to not feel "against" the new RD88 hee hee
It appears like the RD08 is making the RD88 seem like good value. I used to be a little skeptical of the recent Roland actions after having an FA08 with the Ivory G action. I found it too sluggish for my liking, and ivory feel a bit too course textured. I feel the PHA4 is good advancement from that, and once learning it's character, have no trouble bonding with it. To be frank, I have very little trouble with most actions, as long as I give them the time to get used to them, and my fingers really thank me for playing regularly between different feeling actions!
Pity you didn't manage to swing past the other week. You could have had a good play of my RD88
I think compared to the old Casio you would have found it to be at least acceptable.
Of interest to me, the RD88's usb audio has more than just the 16bit/44Khz. I know it can at least do 24/48, which is more than some other keyboard interfaces.
And I think it allows me to select up to 96Khz in the DAW audio interface settings.
The RD08/88 dimensions are very slim laterally, but the Rolands compromise are its vertical height. But I suppose you have to put the folded action weighting somewhere.
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Just now, AUSSIEKEYS said:
That makes no sense at all. You could knock more than that off a instore purchase of the RD88 unless Roland has created a "dont do this order"
ROLAND just give us a simple stage piano for a reasonable price instead of this weird marketing tomfoolery
I suppose we could be a little less antagonistic about it, and just shrug our shoulders and say it's not for us, and buy an RD88, which I do really like mine. It fits the bill for my version of a weighted lightweight. That's probably why I'm confused about it. Maybe there's something we're missing? Learn me someone 😀
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If you look at some of the Oz retailers, it's advertised as only $52 less than an RD88. Not even worth considering in my view.
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1 hour ago, MarkusB47 said:
For me, as someone that loves Roland keybed PH04 and 05 feel but uses iPad instead of a Macbook with Mainstage for sounds in live performance, this adds class compliant usb. That is what really sets it appart from both the RD2000 and RD88 (which are not class compliant) for me. Main reason I didn’t pickup an RD2000 although I would die for its interface. I have an RD800 and RD64 both of which I love but RD800 is getting heavy and I really miss 88 keys on the RD64. All work with Apple Mainstage but not with iPad. Something like the RD08 will. I imagine at some point Roland may go class compliant usb with their flagship (have no idea why they haven’t accept maybe to lock you into only using their Cloud or Mainstage etc) but for now, if you use an iPad for things like Pianoteq, VB3, Audio Modeling horns and all the plethora of synth apps on iPad, this new board may be worth considering. I certainly has got my attention.
I guess then, you are one of the target markets for this new piano, using only an ios device. I've never had an issue with class compliance as I only use it with computers and rely less on inbuilt features. Though I do install the specific driver from Roland, I don't have a problem using the generic setup for most of the functionality I need. For me this feature would not be enough of a drawcard to sway me over having the RD88. I tend to live with the idealism of being as standalone as possible with my gear. This includes software that will run indefinitely without the need to phone home. I can picture myself after the apocalypse, self powering and playing my virtual synths to my heart's content, while the storm clouds swirl over the horizon and the social anarchy races forth😀
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30 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:
Interesting, and I appreciate you can sell expansion sounds, but I have an issue with software locked hardware. Clearly has to have a hardware audio interface, but you have to pay to activate it?
I can see now that it's Roland's attempt at shoehorning people into Roland cloud. In my view, terribly cynical marketing because Roland cloud isn't for everyones' music making workflow.
So I guess, answering my own question, the RD08 is specifically almost a Roland Cloud "dumb terminal"?
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This offering leaves me very puzzled. In OZ there's only $100 difference between the RD08 and RD88 on the Roland website. On first impression it's a slightly cutdown RD88, but it's the same form factor/dimensions and the same weight. If I was considering weight and size, I would go for the RD88, same action, more controllers and ready to go USB audio. For me I don't access the Zencore stuff anyway. What advantage am I getting for saving 100 bucks?
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15 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:
@DeltaJockey sorry to keep asking you, but I don’t know if anyone else here has the Keystage. Have you felt any real limitations with Wavestate LE and/or a need to upgrade? I can’t image the half polyphony and one instance would bother me much, but is there much to be gained from importing external libraries or your own waveforms?
Just curious really.The thought of the limitation had crossed my mind. I haven't really played with it all that much, and probably won't seriously get an essential amount of use from it, but had decided I was ahead by being able to play patches without the Try nag screen first. I decided that if I really started leaning on it, buying the full version would be worth it.
I do find this new rack version of the hardware Wavestate appealing down the track. And I'm pretty sure if you buy a hardware Wavestate of some kind, like Yamaha with the new Montage, you get a free copy of the full Wavestate. This probably doesn't help your dilemma, but I'm also not worried about polyphony or one instance, and probably won't be importing any external libraries any time soon.
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+1
Novation Summit for me too, it's easy to be romantic over yesteryears tech, but this is the best of both worlds and analog enough for me in this day and age👍
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2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:
The A800 Pro is a controller only and its DIN midi in is pretty useful imo. You can merge data coming in through there with what you're playing on the keyboard and send the combined data out one of the USB midi ports or the DIN midi out.
The A800 also needs its DIN midi in if you connect it to a computer over a midi interface and want to use the editor software - bidirectional communication is required for the editor to work.
Yes of course, I meant other than a MIDI merger, central routing point for other connected devices, if that's what you were inferring. I remember in the early 90's building myself a MIDI switch/router rack mount unit. It was very very useful, and saved a lot of plugging in and out, and reconfiguring. I did elude to the MIDI in to USB functionality in one of my comments for the Keystage. Maybe a firmware update?
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On 3/15/2024 at 2:00 AM, Stokely said:
There's a note in the manual that the aftertouch can wear out? Wow. I owned a Virus that at the time was about 15 years old and pretty obviously used (if not abused) and the aftertouch worked great. Granted, it was regular channel aftertouch. If the manufacturer is admitting that up front that would have me worried.
There doesn't see to be any complaints with any channel aftertouch tech, reliability wise. I have an 8 year old Kronos, and there's nothing wrong it's Channel AT. Likewise any other synths with ch AT I've had has never been an issue. My Summit, is as good as new, and the has reference feel for me deciding to purchase the Keystage. There's obviously been some practicalities with PAT on some synth actions. Look at Yamaha only releasing it on the GEX, I guess with some mileage already from the larger digital pianos. No one though, complains of Hydrasynth action failures. I don't recall anyone complaining about the Ensoniq PAT in terms of reliability, though it apparently was too touchy.
But the 80's synth keybeds were somewhat heavier and more robust in general.
It will be interesting to see how they stand up in the field.
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7 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:
Had a response from Korg UK about the midi:
"Hi Paul, The MIDI In/Out ports on the Keystage are designed so the Keystage can control/play other hardware units. Currently, data received through the MIDI In port cannot be routed to the USB MIDI port.
When both MIDI In/Out ports are connected to MIDI 2.0 device like the wavestate, for example, there will be directional communication between the devices and the controls on the Keystage will be automatically assigned to most commonly used parameters."
They then referred me to the manual which was not much help, but it seems that the midi in is only to connect to the device also connected to the midi out to make a bidirectional communication. I just assumed this was done via one cable.... Im still curious if Midi in goes to midi out and will see what they say about that, but I expect that midi port is just for some sort of future use.
Wouldnt really hurt to put that in the manual. It makes me fear that they might still be making this stuff up with Midi 2.0 as they go along 😞
I think that's perfectly logical. There'd be no other reason for a MIDI in DIN on a controller only. It's just an addition to support MIDI 2.0 devices with DIN ports I suppose.
Another reason why this controller is a bit more expensive than other run of the mill controllers. Cost of an extra port other controllers don't have.
Will be interesting to see if other manufacturers start following with similar products
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oh ok.
btw I meant 3d print. You probably knew I meant that! Yeah good idea. I have my shelf on the right hand side because of the laptop. A centre hook for me could be handy.😀
Let me know how it turns out.
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19 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:
That spare slot on the back for the expansion plate (61 key), and the trailing wires was bugging me so.....
Did you laser print that?
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9 hours ago, AnotherScott said:
I mentioned how a Montage "Waveform" is something that, itself, contains a number of what we normally call waveforms and how the board requires you to employ both meanings, a complication that could easily have been avoided by not using a word to mean something that already means something else. (What they misleadingly call a Waveform could have been called, say, a Waveset or something along those lines.)
I suppose you could argue that the "collection" of waveforms is a complex waveform in the same context as a complex waveshape can be broken down into a fourier series of sinewaves
🤫
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14 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:
@DeltaJockey I'm away from home but pondering some connection options. Any idea how the Midi in works? Does it transmit incoming data to either midi out or over USB (or both?)
It's not covered at all in the manual as far as I can see.
Actually, I have no idea. When I get a chance I'll have a bit of a look. Wouldn't it just merge with midi in USB? Without looking, I'm guessing they appear as separate ports in the MIDI setup app. I don't have an application for midi in atm.
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Yes, one thing I don't like is those keys with the bendy plastic hinges. I'm pretty sure this is a proper key hinge. It certainly feels like it. I would hope Korg have learnt the lesson from a few years back when they put those horrible thin twisty keybeds in the likes of the KingKorg, Krome 61, and Kross 61.
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It just looks like a server problem, similar to what has happened many times over the years. It'll probably get fixed before long and all will be well.🤞
I know in the past It's sometimes taken James some time to get a round to dealing with it.
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Roland RD-08
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
My view on the actions you've mentioned. The Kawai RHIII in my opinion would probably be kinder to your hands than PHA4. I have to consider my ageing hands when playing these. I actually sold my MP11SE with the grand feel in favour of the MP7SE with the RHIII, as I found the grand feel had a certain damping which would tire my hands quickly.
The RHIII is a lot quicker to respond and left me less fatigued. I play a lot of stuff with left hand octaves, so my pinky and thumb are being extended a lot, and this is where the action response is important to me.