DeltaJockey

February 5

1 hour ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

So what technically would happen if you didn't need have the hardware? I ask because I've been having trouble getting Logic (or any DAW) to authorize the plugin. I don't have my Montage connected to the computer though. I thought the plugin was standalone (hence all the GBs of data (I assumed samples, etc) that come with it. But maybe if I connected it via USB, it would authorize.

I also want to add that Steinberg authorization manager is saying that it's activated... super weird.

I have a second install of it on a Macbook that I use with my Roland RD88, or Numa X GT. It fresh installs and works as an independent plugin, without the need for the hardware Montage at any point. Not sure why Logic doesn't let it register, must be something else going on with your system that is causing that.

As far as installing the plugin, then selling the hardware, I see no reason why you couldn't actually do that, but you'd have to allow fudging a couple of things.

1. The new owner doesn't hold you to task on transferring it to them.

2. Your Montage serial is registered under your account at Yamaha. Again, the new owner would have to not worry about serial number changes.

Other than that, there's no way Yamaha/Steinberg would know you didn't have the hardware in your possession.

For the point of case, you could also theoretically allow someone else, who doesn't own the hardware to install one of the 3 activations on their computer, but it would still be activated under you account. Of course it's not a recommended course of action legally, and someone would have to give them the install file. Of course this is only one step from piracy, so not to be condoned. It's just to demonstrate that it's tied to you account not your hardware.

February 4

10 out of 10 for originality! The musical content IMHO? ummm....yep.

To be fair, music as a creative art has no boundaries, and the use of sound to create association with feelings or memories is very strong, so this makes outsider music entirely valid

February 3

I agree, there's passwords for everything, and they are supposed to be all different! I've migrated to paying with my phone, or my watch. It uses my facial recognition or biometrics, so I don't have to remember pins. If I need to use my card, as I haven't used it for ages, I can't remember the PIN!

Unfortunately, the criminals out there will always try to be one step ahead. PINS and passwords will eventually be redundant as we'll all go biometric.

February 1

If anyone's interested, there's a firmware update for the hardware from 1.20 to 1.21. It fixes the syncing issue. I tried it and it works now.

February 1

On 1/31/2024 at 7:16 AM, Analogaddict said:

I installed it on my 2015 MBP today - unfortunately the UI doesn’t fit the screen and I can’t find any way to resize it… 🤦‍♂️I can’t scroll to the first two parts and therefore I can’t load anything. I’ll try again tomorrow.

Did you set the display size button in the settings to small? It should fit then.

February 1

40 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

That is the question of the day. I’m hoping someone will chime in!

From what I can tell, No (not yet). I have it installed on a Macbook Pro, and controlling it with my RD88. When I increment program up, I have the script window open on Logic and I see the Program Change messages scrolling though, but alas the ESP doesn't change performances. Unless there's something else I've missed, but there's not a lot to the settings as yet.

I am able to map cc's to change scenes though, from an external controller.

However in my investigations I've discovered a couple of things in plain site which may be of interest:

For those having trouble with fitting the window on a lower res screen, in settings there is a large and small button, which reduced the plugin window down for smaller screens.

There is clearly from my experience some performances which are heavy on resources, but I see next to buffer size in GB, there is a "Lite" mode. When selected, the performances which are heavy on my system and did have sound breakup, now work perfectly. I hear no difference in the sound. Can't believe I missed that!

February 1

Subscription might be rightly aimed at those who can't afford the hardware, at least in the short term, and even those who convulse at $500 for the software outright.

February 1

I wonder if Yamaha might even be considering ESP as a subscription? 😵 Do Yamaha have any musical product that is subscriber?

Rather than a hardware sales killer, they might see that as teasing way of getting people to sample the product and then buying the hardware! Or keep the subscription going.

January 31

3 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Has anyone been able to explain the inexplicable presence of a relief photo of a Montage rather than a keybed in the UI?

I was thinking that not being finished software, it was just a "placeholder" until further functionality is included?

Despite my issues with resources hogging, I still find it a great offering, and the problems I have with it is in a narrow set of conditions. On the whole, most performances are pretty light on resources. It's just some of them, particularly the older Montage motion perfs that I have trouble with. Also sounds with longer releases and lots of polyphony, like when I play orchestral harp manually fingering arpeggios with two hands across the range. This is only the live playing situation.

I suspect, if I laid down multiple tracks, (which I haven't yet), and had Logic play that back, things may be somewhat better.

In the end it doesn't fuss me too much, as the ESP at this stage is just a curio to play with, then I go back to my real Montage if I want punch out 2 fisted chords in reatlime👍

January 28

12 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Two issue possible here. Logic and MainStage need an update to take advantage of all cores on newer Apple silicon like the M2. Yamaha/Steinberg have some efficiency improvements to make. Of course we can't test the latter because there is no standalone version of Montage M. But someone with access can try Montage M in other hosts like Gig Performer for instance.

Yes, I think a Logic/Mainstage update is in order. The Steinberg/Yamaha driver isn't in the picture, because I didn't have the Montage hardware connected. Though the problem occurred when playing using the Montage as a DAW contoller, I also tried it through my RD88, and its USB audio. Same. I then suspecting issues with Logic, loaded the Montage vst via another vst host which came with a Nektar controller I have, (Nektarine). Same thing happened, So maybe the thread issue is a Mac OS issue. I'm running Sonoma 14.3. Acutally, the more I look at what I've just said, the more confused I am, and the more I don't know 🤔

January 28

6 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

In DAW situation you can simply raise the buffer to max to work on projects with heavier cpu needs. You can also freeze tracks when necessary.

I hope to hear back from MainStage users however where real time low latency is critical for performance. Can one have two or three instances of Montage M in the same patch?

I simply tried everything. Every buffer size, sample rate etc. The issue I see, is it's more about thread use than cpu load in total. When playing a live track in Logic, it seems to use one thread per track, and doesn't share with other threads. It's the same effect with Mainstage. I loaded it in Mainstage and on some performances the sound broke up when playing lots of notes or sounds with long sustains. (The same sounds played in the same way on the hardware Montage is not a problem). Realtime latency isn't an issue when playing live. Most performances on the whole are pretty good. So having multiple instances of performances which don't max out each thread would work. When using multiple instances you're not going to be live playing them all at once in Logic so that should be ok. But I wouldn't layer several instances in Mainstage and play live, haven't tried it, but I can guess where that will go!

January 28

Blake and other Yamaha dudes are really pushing the multiple instances thing. There's buckets of optimism floating around.

From my experience so far, many instances would have to contain some fairly light performances on each. On my Mac Studio and m1 Pro Macbook Pro, I came into issue very quickly by selecting just one of those more complex morphing arpeggiations. The playing thread on Logic maxed out and the sound broke up. I tried different audio interfaces, different DAW's etc. and that was on only one instance!

I can only hope that further builds will be a bit more resource friendly. Maybe it's been optimised for Cubase, which I don't use, I don't know.

I believe I'm not the only one, so time will tell. Overall, it's quite polished for what it is, and I'm cautiously impressed 👍

January 27

5 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Same here, I'm having an intense bout of GAS although I haven't acted on it. I've got the original Montage8 but this M8x is almost too much to resist. I've never gigged with the Montage8 so I'm thinking of just keeping it as a time capsule.

I also have your other hobby (amateur radio) that is tugging at me to get some antennas working at my new locale. It's a curse! Radio, Music, Photography, not enough time!

Yeah, I often feel the same, just too many interests to fit in to my life. And I'm lucky to be retired now! and still don't spend as much time with my music as I'd like.

I often wonder how I ever fit work in before I retired, with all the interests I have.

Having sold my Montage8 for the M8x, I don't think you're too far behind with the Montage8. It's still a fine instrument! I just love the Montage build quality.

Sadly, I had to sell my 8 to help fund the M8x. I bought the M8x for the GEX action and the improved audio, the ANx is a bonus, but I was able to do most of what the M8x can do on the older 8. I guess as time goes on I'll learn to leverage the extra functionality from the M8x. I'll never be an expert on them, just don't have the time!

January 26

2 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

I’d still be interested in comparing the vst audio quality versus the analog outputs of the Montage M HW. Maybe live it’s good enough.

Yamaha boasts: [PURE ANALOG CIRCUIT 2] The upgraded Pure Analog Circuit included in MONTAGE M reduces noise and improves the dynamic range, crosstalk, low-frequency phase, and distortion rate, resulting in clearer sound at all volumes. You’ll also find the sound has more detailed low-mids and presence.

It’s not clear how the vst models/generates the Montage Synth engine tones but it sounds like they’ve done a good job. And then there is the vst audio interface D/A quality, which is as good as you want to pay for on your compute platform.

Well, that's the thing. When using the vst with any hardware other than the Montage M, the sound quality is only going to be as good as the DAC hardware. This is also why one reason my initial comparison was using the Montage audio itself. But one of the attractions of having the vst is so you don't have to have the Montage with you, So there in lies the premise that the vst potentially may not sound as good as the original. But it will sound as good as your other vst's. When out and about, you're not going to carrying the the best studio hardware with you, but at the same time, you're probably not going to be in a position to be nit picking the audio either. I've always said I'd love Yamaha to produce a separate USB audio interface module with the same kit that's in the Montage, that would be the icing on the cake for having great sound without having a Montage.

January 26

So just to eat humble pie on my rant about Steinberg. I read the updated news about their improvements recently. I'm sure many folk here may have put me straight on this.

It seems most of my concerns are historic. (other than my activation frustration). They have a similar policy to NI allowing 3 activations. This is quite acceptable to me. So laptop here I come

On a not so happy note, the word on the other Yamaha forums is that Yamaha will not be releasing a retail purchase only version for the foreseeable future. It will be only available to Montage M owners apparently. This will dampen interest in the detail for many people. I guess there's not a lot of reason now for me to provide much discovering discussion for other folks benefit. Maybe it's a herring to get people to purchase the hardware and then when they've sold enough, they'll do a general release? Who knows.

January 26

11 minutes ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Got it. If I’m reading you right, the Montage digital USB is generating your Montage M sound for comparison with the standalone vst audio.

Are you using a good audio output interface on your Mac? I think the acid test is comparing the Montage analog outputs to the standalone vst. As you mention, one would expect the Montage USB digital reconstruction to sound similar (identical?) to the vst since the converters to analog are identical.

Yes, I was first only using the Montage USB audio as if it was just a separate audio module, because my studio gear is routed to use the Montage as my main controller and the 4 audio outputs of the Montage to surround monitors. (I then routed the sound to a Presonus studio interface and controlled the vst with my Kawai MP7SE, just to prove the point of independence from the Montage hardware).

I prefer using the Montage audio interface as it is the best sound audio I have. When comparing the sound of the vst to the internal Montage sounds, I hear absolutely no difference. The sound of the vst via the Presonus, is marginally less quality, but is the same less quality if I route the internal Montage sound via that external Presonus interface.

I hope that clears up any of my ambiguities. I have to confess, my description was initially a bit rushed!

January 26

Just to be clear, as it is a confusing thing to describe...I turned off the Montage, and tried it with another controller and audio interface. That all worked well.

January 26

1 minute ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Are you saying you only used it as an editor and that the audio was still generated by the Montage M audio outputs?

I would be interested in how faithfully the vst generated audio from the computer matches the Montage’s hardware.

No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that because at this stage the editing is limited, just using it as a player vst without the hardware for all it's performances is still pretty neat. I said above that I hear no difference between the hardware sound and the software sound. I just happen to be using the Montage in my setup as my master controller, so I'm using the Montage USB audio. When using the vst, I have local off, so the Montage hardware engine is not sounding. I'm just using the keyboard controller. That's just the same as plugging in any old keyboard and any other audio interface. The sound is coming from the vst in the DAW. No Montage needed!

January 26

Well, I'm sitting here playing my vst Montage! They seem to have done a tidy job on the first iteration. The software version is 1.00 build 120, and it behaves very well on my Mac. No operational bugs found so far. I find it has value in just being a Librarian/Stand alone Player. It's kind of weird scrolling though and playing the performances with no assistance from the hardware. The sounds are of course identical. But as I'm running it through the Montage M audio interface, I don't expect any audio differences. I've yet to try it with another controller and audio interface but it should perform well.

So if you own a Montage M, obtaining it from Yamaha's perspective is pretty straight forward, but to my dismay, Steinberg are in the picture, and I still don't find their process straight forward. You get a serial number bundled with your original purchase.

So after upgrading your firmware to 1.2, you also download the install instructions for ESP, which requires you to install the Steinberg download manager thingy.

(I uninstalled this many moons ago in disgust )

So far so good. You just enter your serial in here and the download is available. It's about 7.7GB. Installing the software is easy, but

the thing I'm not loving is the way the authorisation process has the Steinberg app and your web browser bouncing back and forth, and for me several passes before I got over the login error messages. (Nothing I did wrong)!

As expected for a first release, it seems moderately heavy on my Mac Studio resources, but it is fairly sonically chunky, especially with all those Montage arpeggiators and voices!

I still don't know how the licensing works when I want to use it on a laptop, and whether I have only one licence to transfer. That would be a pain. I would hope they allow the second install so you don't have to deactivate the home copy when away from the hardware Montage.

I guess the most interest will be in the performance of the vst. So far with my limited tryout, it performs just as well as the hardware. Selecting attributes on the large screen is nice, especially the performance list. The limited editing is smooth and responsive, so too are the realtime controls from the hardware. The rotaries and super knob movements are liquid smooth on the screen when using the hardware controls.

The utilities settings are very limited at this stage, but I'm guessing there'll never need to be as many parameters in the vst as the hardware anyway.

This is not a review, but my first experience with its use. If this is a taste of what's to come, then it'll be worth the wait, and I suspect worth the cost to folks who want to buy the stand alone software.👍

January 19

I've been playing my M8x action almost every day since I got it 4 months ago and I still love it. I mentioned in one of the threads that this may be an action I may actually eventually wear out from use. (Though I really hope not)! It will be interesting to see how it holds up. It does get a bit of a pounding at times.

It seems to just suit every playing style and sound I throw at it 😀

December 31, 2023

The Roland RD88 is weighted and pretty light @13.5kg, with some DAW functionality. You can assign the knobs as controllers and it has a built in USB audio interface. It also has built in Mainstage support if you use Macs. I like it because for a weighted action it's quite compact in length and depth wise by making it a bit higher.

December 28, 2023

6 hours ago, Old No7 said:

This thread gives me GAS...............

That's not a complaint -- just an observation... 😏

Old No7

I agree!

I've been regularly checking this thread for years for want of ideas😍

December 28, 2023

4 hours ago, CraigT said:

What keyboard stand with wide shelf is the M8x sitting on? That would work perfectly for me.

It's a K&M Omega stand with part of a second tier attachment modified with a standard laminated shelf.

I have spent many a time creating my own customizations of stands and bits from each. Studio ergonomics has long been a beef of mine, and this won't be the end of it! I've still yet to find a final solution where everything I use regularly is within easy reach without being in the way of something else.😑

December 28, 2023

'tis the season for an update! Montage M8x's on the house! ha ha

I keep putting off room treatment, GAS takes the priority. When will I learn🤔

December 28, 2023

On 12/27/2023 at 2:07 AM, Motif88 said:

My new setup. Replaced RD-2000 and Hydrasynth Deluxe with a Montage M8x:

I like your colored lights👍 The reflection almost makes for color keys...so I know which key to press in sync with the music?😆 I might invest in some just to make the photos of my gear look less boring! Nice compact setup though, complete with the obligatory default Sonoma wallpaper👍

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