rogs

Whenever I hear a Dutchman speaking English, I always think they tend to speak it with a New York accent ? -- which makes some sense of course, looking at the history of Manhattan. ... So 'the birds' in Central Park becomes 'de boids' in Central Park for example. Not that - as an Englishman - I'm an expert on US accents, you understand --- (I like to think I can tell New York from New Orleans --- but Illinois from Oregon? -- no chance of knowing which of those is which I'm afraid ! )

Glasgow you say? .... Then it probably was Klingon!

It's much simpler to change a 251 into a 147 than it is to change a 251 into a 122 -- You can use the same amplifier chassis, with only a few fairly simple wiring changes ( and the addition of an amplifier load resistor.) It' not easy to change a 147 into a 251 though ! The 122 has a very different amplifier chassis (balanced audio inputs, external DC supply output, DC grid voltage speed controller, etc etc ). Changing the amp chassis is definitely the simpler option there.

For me it was the Yamaha MOX. A derivative of the Motif of course, but I'd not been involved in anything musical - kit wise - since around 1990, so the initial MOX demo I saw and heard from Bert Smorenburg - about 10 years ago - was a real WOW moment for me.. It's cost me a fortune since then of course!

Yes, that's the best way to confrim. Allow for the fact that, if you're playing with low velocity (which makes it easier to hear the difference), the piano will trigger quietly. If you play it with a really slow velocity, the piano doesn't sound at all! (Not that you ever would - under normal playing conditions). If you play it with enough velocity for the piano to sound then yes, the piano and organ do trigger at the same point. If you only release the key far enough to stop the organ sound , and then press again there is of course no new piano note. The key has to be completely released, to allow the keyboard to acquire the reference point for the velocity sensing of the next piano note. - Quite logical of course. That 'key off point' is much higher than the organ 'sound off point' of course... you only have to move the key a millimetre or so, to 'start' that velocity sensing point. I suppose Yamaha might be able to use that high 'key movement has been started' point in some way as a high trigger point for organ? But it would be a very high trigger! Point is, there is a higher trigger reference than the current 'audio on' point......it just may not be possible - or even practical - to use it as a high trigger for organ sounds. As has been already mentioned, it's probably not a deal breaker for most folk.... The YC61 keys feel OK for organ, and are quite usable for piano as well. (They are a bit noisy though - especially the accidentals, which have quite a lot of lateral movement.)

I haven't come across the Dexibell rotary - or indeed the Dexibell. .... I have seen it mentioned a few times, but I've not listened to any demos so far ... I take it their rotary sim is not good then?.... EDIT: I took a look at a 2017 Dexibell demo video ....... Oh dear -- I thought the YC61 fast rotary was bad, but that Dexibell was REALLY bad! ( I understand from Scott's comment below that it's been improved since 2017.... )

From some posts I've read, it may not sound bad if you've also got the chorus on, which is how many people often play... maybe it's only really bad when you use fast Leslie and no chorus, and maybe they overlooked paying sufficient particular attention to that...? '...Overlooked paying sufficient particular attention'... to a fundamental aspect of the new 'specially created' rotary simulation that the YC61 is supposed to have featured? .... And if they did analyse a 'real' Leslie - rather than listening to the Vent (one of the most famous rotary sims of the last 7 years) - how on earth did they decide that their current implementation of the fast rotor speeds even remotely simulated either of those two options? No, it's much simpler than that, IMHO ... Yamaha have just got this wrong. Hopefully, they will be able to improve it - although with nothing new for a whole year after the initial release at NAMM 2020, I'm beginning to wonder....

I find it difficult to accept that the Yamaha engineers didn't know that they had released a 'not very good' rotary sim on the YC61? The fast speed is just awful - and if the engineers Yamaha appointed to create that can't hear that it's awful - then Yamaha are in trouble, 'audio assessment' wise. Could have been be pressures to meet the launch date (some of the adjustable parameter setting names make little sense) - or maybe it's one of these cultural things, where people don't like to 'lose face' and admit they got it wrong? (And Yamaha rarely (if ever?) admit they get anything wrong. ... ) In the months following the Montage release, the official Yamaha line was that the new Montage really didn't need an onboard sequencer........ Fast forward 18 months.... on board sequencer for the Montage ! I posted a straightforward 'Raw YC61' - 'Internal Sim' - ' Vent' comparison mp3 a while back ( copy here: www.jp137.com/las/YC61.Raw.InternalRotary.Vent.mp3 ) ... It really is very difficult to believe that Yamaha thought their sim was anything like the Vent ? ...

With both new models having weighted keybeds - for which Yamaha generally use 164mm per octave 'standard' size keys -- I'm guessing we now have one model (YC61) with 159mm per octave keys... and two models (YC73/YC88) with 164mm per octave keys? Won't bother most folk of course, but some will be pleased that they've now got their (much requested?) 73 key version with 'standard' size keys....

There seems to be some doubt then .I can only comment on my own experiences..... The 'GHS' keybed on my P.105 feels nothing like the Motif XF8 or Montage 8 keybeds I've tried. Those latter two certainly felt similar, but - as I say - very different from my GHS. I would personally be amazed if the P105 and MotifXF8 keyboards have a common base. To be fair I've not tried a CP73, so that may be very different from the Motif/Montage8 BHS keybed...... But not according to Clendeninn ......

Download link to the zip folder here: https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/music_production/stagekeyboards/yc/downloads.html#product-tabs (near the bottom of the page). Unzip the files and there is an English text file among them, detailing the update procedure.

According the Yamaha's 'Bad Mister' (Phil Clendeninn) --- "The CP73 has Yamaha"s Balanced Hammer Standard action, which is similar to the feel of the weighted action found in MONTAGE8, Motif XF8/XS8, S90 XS/S70 XS.... Yamaha"s top-of-the-line synthesizers".... The GHS keybed - as fitted to my Yamaha P105 - feels nothing like the Motif XF8 or Montage 88 BHS keyboards I've played... Unfortunate you can"t make assumptions by model name. The Montage 8 action does in fact play well. I prefer the CP-88"s. But it"s not a cheap feeling action on the Montage. I agree -- both the Montage 8 and the MotifXF8 keybeds feel very nice --- The point I was making was in response to the query as to whether the "BHS was simply non - graded GHS" --- To which the answer is no!

According the Yamaha's 'Bad Mister' (Phil Clendeninn) --- "The CP73 has Yamaha"s Balanced Hammer Standard action, which is similar to the feel of the weighted action found in MONTAGE8, Motif XF8/XS8, S90 XS/S70 XS.... Yamaha"s top-of-the-line synthesizers".... The GHS keybed - as fitted to my Yamaha P105 - feels nothing like the Motif XF8 or Montage 88 BHS keyboards I've played...

One nice little touch that Jim mentioned - at 11:20 in his overview video - was the fact that the organ reverb can be routed through the Leslie rotors. Back in the day (early 70s ) I was working as a Hammond tech.... Many (most?) 'home organ' customers with model A.100 or M.100 - fitted with model 122RV or model 251 Leslies - would ask for their set ups to be modified, so that the reverb could be routed through the rotors. (The 'standard' Leslie install had the second organ reverb channel routed through stationary speakers) With the SK Pro, Hammond have realised that some folk may still like to use this option.... Nice touch!

I think it might be safe to assume that creating a high trigger option for the YC range is not exactly going to be top of Yamaha's 'to do' mod list now --- It would have been nice for the YC61, but not exactly that useful on the new weighted 73 or 88 versions?... I'm trying to get my head round the logic for issuing an 88 note - against their own CP88 - and why the YC73 is not a waterfall just has me scratching my head ?... Ignoring a rotary sim upgrade for the latest OS update is just crazy... or are we really expected to believe that ALL the engineers and demonstrators at Yamaha have cloth ears, and are in denial that it has problems?.... Weird!

Well, if you look at Yamaha's 'Ideascale' website (you need to have an account) the top 3 ideas are all about introducing - or reintroducing - new synths ... The no. 2 idea - about re-introducing the CS80 - was actually initiated by Yamaha themselves -- so you ever know?...

A post from the Facebook Clonewheel Organ Group page: "From the NAMM Believe in Music page....Information SK PRO: Hammond Stage Keyboard - 61 key Single Keyboard SK PRO-73: Hammond Stage Keyboard - 73 key Single Keyboard Category:KeyboardsOrgans MSRP SK PRO $2,795.00 SK PRO-73 $3,055 " I haven't been able to find it on the 'NAMM Believe in Music' pages myself, so it might just be a made up post?..... Anyone else able to confirm those prices - or not ?

....Keytar? --- OK, maybe not

You obviously need keyboards to play the B3x through... For those on a really tight budget, it might be worth scouring Ebay for an old spinet console with MIDI ?? I route the 3 MIDI channel outputs from my old Yamaha HC2 console and use the YC61 organ sounds for upper manual (YC61 only has one MIDI channel input sadly ) - with the lower keyboard and pedal voices taken from my MOX6. Works pretty well. For the B3x I would think it's simpler? ... 3 MIDI channels (1,2 and 3 ) out from the console, routed via an iRig MIDI 2 (or similar) to the iPad, to enable the B3x with 2 manuals and a single octave pedal board........ , And with consoles like the Yamaha HC2 going for around $50 or less, an iRig MIDI 2 for around $75, and the B3x currently from around $65 you could get a really good sounding spinet organ for less than $200.. Nearest 'real' Hammond equivalent would probably be an M100 with a 122RV - or 251 - Leslie? (Unlike the L.100, the M.100 had a proper vibrato scanner and percussion preamp) Just a thought...

Mike Patrick's demos are always brilliant -- a very fine player. Notice he has chosen to use the internal rotary in conjunction with chorus (which he turns on near the start of the demo). The internal sim slow speed is quite usable -- and you can get away with the fast speed as well - if it's used with chorus or vibrato. Used on its own, and fast is not really acceptable at present -- and Yamaha are well aware of that.. Here's hoping for an update soon.... Maybe at 'Virtual' NAMM, later this month?...

Amen to that !..... You can pick out various individual notes and get some very strange results ( For example, try the top B natural with just a 4' drawbar on fast, and compare it to the Bb next to it ...) Hopefully, Yamaha will be issuing a firmware update soon -- maybe at virtual Namm?

Same here - I can't get the organ sound to run through the internal rotary, without the organ LED lit up on the Speaker section .... looks like I may have missed something too ?... I'm pretty sure that's not the internal rotary --- Best visual clue is the one Kenheeter mentioned above - For a very fleeting moment at around 2.03 he changes rotary to fast, and the alternating rotary speaker fast/slow LEDS - next to the pitch bend level - clearly stay flashing at the slow rate.... And I'm not sure, but I think he maybe using 'fast and stop' rather than 'fast and slow' ???.... He's got Chorus 3 switched on, so that maybe confusing things a bit I don't believe there's any way to get the current internal rotary fast speed to sound like that -- I'd love to be proved wrong....

Glad it has worked out OK.... There is one further variation some folk might like to try out?....It's a useful option for those who don't want to get involved with any soldering or the replacement of any jack plugs. You'll need: ⢠Two of THESE (or any similar momentary footswitch with a normally open option) ⢠And one of THESE --- or any similar stereo 6.35mm jack plug to 2 x 6.35mm mono jack socket adaptor. Then just plug each footswitch into the adaptor, and the adaptor into the Vent remote socket. With the Vent 2 remote setting in Switch1 Mode (7 o'clock) -- one momentary footswitch will change the speed from fast to slow each time it's pressed - and the other will alternately switch between the currently selected speed and the rotors stopping. So -- 2 cheap footswitches to replicate both footswitch speed control functions on the Vent itself ... and no soldering!

Back in the day - around 1980 - new polysynths like the Prophet 5 cost around half a year's money here in the UK. I was working as a keyboard tech at the time, so I thought I'd have a go at making one.... I bought some Curtis 3340 oscillator and some SSM 2040 filter chips (easy to find and cheap in those days!) - located a 61 note keyboard from an old home organ, and had a go at at building a 5 voice polysynth. I did get it all to work - although it was a devil to tune - and I never finished the case construction ...All long since relegated to the great synth yard in the sky... Sadly, I don't have any photos of the project -- never thought about taking any at the time - All I have is a few snippets of cassette recordings from the time. The recordings were made with home made sequencers and analogue drum and 'hand clap' machines as well.... All sounds pretty awful now, but at the time I was quite pleased (making these types of sounds with commercial kit was for the wealthy few in those days! ) Short clip here: www.jp137.com/las/polysynth80.m4a I warn you, it's not good ...but it does bring back some happy memories of that time for me....

I can confirm that seems to be the point of key 'contact' selected by Yamaha travel for triggering an organ sound, in the current firmware. But of course they do have the option to change that.... If you choose a velocity sensitive sound - like a piano - then a key only has to be moved a tiny amount to trigger the start of the velocity sensing. So a high trigger point should be available for future updates, if they chose to enable it? You can check this high trigger point by selecting a piano voice, moving a key a fraction and then holding it there. Wait a few seconds, and then continue to press. There will be no sound. (You will have triggered the start of the velocity sensing mechanism, but not completed it within the allotted time frame).