rogs

With the remote mode set to position 7 o'clock (Switch 1) the Vent needs a momentary closing contact between ring and sleeve for speed change between fast and slow.... And a momentary closing contact between tip and sleeve to stop the 'rotors'. With the remote mode set to 9 o'clock (Switch 2) the Vent uses latching switching. Sadly, the Vent manual doesn't show the actual latching switch connections required - as they use in their CU-1. Bill's post above lists the connections required but which switch contacts need to remain open, and which need to remain closed in all 3 switch positions ? (The momentary closing contacts required for Switch 1 mode are much simpler to get right! ) I made some notes about the way I tackled the Vent remote connection issue for my own use (fast /slow switching only - using a sustain pedal)... There maybe something in there that helps?... See here: www.vent.jp137.com

There's a single page PDF here: www.jp137.com/lts/YC61.Vent.opto.sw.pdf of the circuit I used here. There are several ways of doing this -- I just used what I had available in the workshop. The important thing to remember is that there should never be any direct connections between the sockets on the Vent and the YC61. This may cause problems - or even damage the kit (although it probably won't!) So - basically the single pole momentary switch needs to control an electrically isolated contact for each function. That can be a relay or - as I used - an opto isolator. There are many ways to skin this cat!! Looking at this again I decided that I didn't like the fact that the Vent speed would only change on pedal release using just a simple normally closed footswitch with no additional control. So I though I'd have a go at making a version that could be programmed for either polarity of footswitch.... ...I also decided that NO modifications should be made to ANY of the commercial units involved. ( That's the Vent, the keyboard or the remote footswitch - (whichever polarity it is)). So it became an electronics project (albeit a very simple one) and provided me with a nice little pluggable interface that costs less than £20... (around $25) I jotted down what I did, in case it's of interest to anyone else? ..... You can find my project notes here: www.vent.jp137.com

They do show speed in RPM, that's a different parameter. You're talking about the acceleration/deceleration parameter. My guess is that 1.0 represents their nominal value (perhaps the times from the specific Leslie they used for reference in the lab), and the range goes from a fifth of that (.2) to double that (2.00). So whatever it is, I would expect a factor of 10 difference (in total time) between the slowest (2.0) and the fastest (0.2) settings. Does that seem right? Yes of course, acceleration/deceleration parameters -- my bad - sorry! Makes sense, a factor of 10 change -- although I've yet to hear the (weak) lower rotor get up to maximum speed at the longest setting (2.00) I got bored waiting after about 3 minutes! I think things like this apparently arbitrary acceleration/ deceleration 'timing' numbering may possibly lend more credence to my notion that this 'sim' was released before completion?.. '0.2 - 2.00' - without explanation in the manual - sounds like an engineering 'work in progress' type of text reference. They just never got round to changing the text to what it was finally intended to read?...

I tried the EQ solution and didn't find that it made a significant difference - at least not while retaining a usable sound..,, 'Silk purse and sows ear' springs to mind The 'simple rotary' option is just that -- the sort of 'sim' you might expect to find on an arranger keyboard. Yamaha have gone to the trouble of including quite a selection of parameter changes for the much heralded YC61 'new' rotary sim .... They just don't work very well (at present)... ⢠The lower rotor is very weak and ill defined. ⢠The speed range numbers (' 0.2 to 2.00' ) don't seem to relate to anything specific? -- and on the longest low rotor setting, full speed is not reached, even after 2 MINUTES! The 'warbling' harmonics are a function of the top rotor. Reduce the lower rotor level to zero and you still get the same LF 'beating' sounds from the top rotor. Sorry, I get the impression that this 'sim' was released - almost a year ago now - before it was properly finished. I am surprised at the number of folk who seem to be OK with it, as it is ? As you can here in the middle section of the sample I posted above ( http://www.jp137.com/las/YC61.Raw.InternalRotary.Vent.mp3 ) the fast rotary sound is very poor- especially when compared to a Vent. I like to think I do have quite a discerning ear, but in the case of the the current YC61 you don't need much of one to realise the rotary sim is pretty useless, as it is. I'm enjoying much about my YC61 -- but the current rotary is very disappointing... and I feel sure Yamaha know it.... The development engineers can't all have cloth ears !

I uploaded a short demo clip a while back, which highlights some of the points you've raised. You can find it here: http://www.jp137.com/las/YC61.Raw.InternalRotary.Vent.mp3 ... It consists of 3 similar short sequences...The 'raw' YC61 -- using the internal rotary sim --and with a Vent 2 rotary.. It's pretty obvious to see why I decided to go for a Vent, I think? -- the internal YC61 sim is NOT good (especially on fast) -- IMHO of course !

No advantage to using a latching switch for this task... ⢠Use a 'normally open' momentary footswitch, and the Vent 2 speed will change each time you press the pedal. ⢠Use a 'normally closed' momentary footswitch, and the Vent 2 speed will change each time you release the pedal (after having pressed it) For both types, you need to fit a stereo jack plug to the end of the footswitch lead, with the connections made to 'ring' an 'sleeve' -- ( it doesn't matter which way round ). No connection to the 'tip' of the stereo jack plug.

Yes. But you need to realise that the jack plug fitted to the end of the lead connecting a momentary footswitch needs to be a stereo jack plug. The 2 connections of the lead need to be made to the 'sleeve' and the 'ring' of that plug, and not to the 'sleeve' and the 'tip' which is how a mono jack plug normally fitted to this type of footswitch would be connected. (A stereo jack plug is also known as a TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) jack. Just google 'TRS jack' for more details of the connections. The remote position is switch position 1 (7 o'clock). Also you need to be aware that most 'standard' footswitches like the Yamaha FC3 and FC5 are 'normally closed'. That means the switch goes 'open' when you press it, and 'closes' when you release it. The momentary position 1 (7 o'clock) for the Vent 2 remote socket is looking for a closing switch to change the speed. That means that when you press the FC3 or FC5 nothing happens. When you release it, the speed will change. Press it again and nothing happens until you release it again. So a short 'stamp and release' on the footswitch is probably the best way to change the speed. If the footswitch is the normally open type (I believe some are, but not sure which makes?) then the speed will change every time you press the footswitch, not when you release it.

There's a single page PDF here: www.jp137.com/lts/YC61.Vent.opto.sw.pdf of the circuit I used here. There are several ways of doing this -- I just used what I had available in the workshop. The important thing to remember is that there should never be any direct connections between the sockets on the Vent and the YC61. This may cause problems - or even damage the kit (although it probably won't!) So - basically the single pole momentary switch needs to control an electrically isolated contact for each function. That can be a relay or - as I used - an opto isolator. There are many ways to skin this cat!!

You can use a simple single pole momentary switch to control the fast/ slow speed switching of the Vent 2 - However it's not quite as simple as just plugging in a 'standard' footswitch - like a Yamaha FC5... The connections need to be made between the ring and sleeve of a 1/4" stereo jack plug, not the more normal tip and sleeve of the 1/4" mono jacks fitted to many foot switches. (Like the Yamaha FC5) In addition, footswitches like the FC5 are 'normally closed', and the Vent is looking for a 'closing contact'... It's not that much of a problem, but you do have to remember that the speed will change when you release the footswitch, not when you press it. (I understand some footswitches are normally open - so they would change speed each time you actually press the switch). In either case the simplest way is to replace the 1/4" mono jack plug found on the end of most footswitches with a 1/4" stereo one... The two footswitch wires need to be connected to ring and [i]sleeve[/i] (polarity doesn't matter) of the stereo jack, leaving the tip unconnected. Simple enough solder job -- although I know some folk don't have access to soldering equipment.... Hopefully, it wouldn't be too difficult to find someone to help out with this very simple soldering task? I use my Yamaha FC4 footswitch to control both sustain on my YC61, and the speed change on my Vent from the same single momentary switch on the FC4 -- but I did need to make a simple electronics box of tricks to do that. (I can post the circuitry, if anyone is interested ? )

I had a colleague who had read about the YC61 rotary sim issues and asked me if it was a fuss about nothing?... I made a short chord sequence which I repeated 3 times: http://www.jp137.com/las/YC61.Raw.InternalRotary.Vent.mp3 ⢠Straight YC61 - no rotary. ⢠Internal rotary with the same settings (no dirt or grit added) ⢠Through a Vent 2 I told him he could decide for himself. I appreciate that this 'raw' way of comparing is a little unrealistic ---- but I think it shows that a Vent can make quite a difference? Here's hoping Yamaha engineers are working hard on an update to the YC61 internal rotary sim?...

Every time I hear something from TOP I am taken back to the middle of 1975, when 'Back to Oakland' was first being heard here in the UK (In the 70s a lot of US jazz records only made it to the UK via the few guys who specialised in importing). Still remember picking my jaw up off the floor after first hearing Chester's solo on 'Squib Cakes' ... Loved them ever since... in all their incarnations. And as for those who have been lucky enough to have seen them live --I'm so jealous!

A few bars on my new Yamaha YC61 - through a Neo Vent. So much 'smoother' than the current rotary sim (maybe going be improved in the next software update?) Backing made on my MOX6 - and inspired by an old Vent 2 demo from Katsunori Ujiie in 2014. (Lots of over the top bass synth and compressed drum kit -- Love it ) Only a couple of minutes long and - as you can tell from the lack of technique - I just play for my own amusement ! [video:youtube]

In the UK the YC61 price has already dropped around £200 from the street price in May .. now c.£1485 (around $1900) -- and that includes a 20% sales tax! Unusual for the US prices to be higher than the UK? -- it's the UK that is normally known to sellers as 'Treasure Island'

I would expect it to offer significant improvement... But I find it really awkward to use a rotary pedal on a keyboard that doesn't let you send organ out its own output. I thought the YC61 could do that with its panning trick, but now that I've learned that those settings are not savable, it doesn't really work. So, yes, you can put a Vent on your YC, but if you split or layer organ with another sound, you won't be able to put Vent on organ without putting it on your other sound. And even if you play just one sound at a time, I find it's awfully easy to forget to hit the bypass button when you switch from organ to brass or whatever, and suddenly you have the sound of brass going through a Leslie. (Especially in a multi-board rig, where you may switch to a board that you haven't been playing in the last couple of minutes.) I went through this with my old Korg G4 rotary pedal, and decided to never again use a rotary pedal on a board where I couldn't set up the organ with its own dedicated output. I take your point Scott about needing to remember to bypass .. hopefully Yamaha will offer a split output option in a firmware update? I'm only a home player, so no worries if I do get it wrong! I couldn't resist trying out a Vent, so I bought one with a 30 day return option ....And unless Yamaha come up with a spectacular rotary sim update in the next 30 days, this Vent ain't going back! It improves the rotary sound from the YC61 organ by a huge amount - especially on fast speed. I've made a short audio clip with 3 short sections: 1) 'Raw' YC61 - no rotary - no EQ - no compression 2) Unchanged YC61 settings - through the internal rotary. (RtrA - minimum drive - tone set half way) 3) Unchanged YC61 settings - through the Vent. Each section is only about 30 seconds - and sorry about the playing ! Copy here: www.jp137.com/las/YC61.Raw.InternalRotary.Vent.mp3 As you can hear, the Vent sounds dramatically better - especially on fast speed -- (IMHO of course!) It's often said that a smell - or a taste - you haven't experienced for years can suddenly bring memories flooding back. How about a sound? ..... One thing that the Vent does is to 'spin' any reverb already on the output. Some folk like that - some don't. (I do!) Back in the day (we're talking early 70s) I was working as a Hammond tech for a main dealer here in the UK. For those installations for home use, reverb could play quite a big part in getting a good sound in a small room. Where a twin rotor Leslie was fitted, it depended on which model Hammond you were fitting it to which model was recommended. For model A100 or M100 it was either a 251 or a 122RV. The organ reverb amplifier input was taken from the main speaker output, so had it's own internal speaker. This output was fed to a separate Leslie reverb amplifier, with its own internal (non rotating speakers). Some folk hated that, and demanded we modify units, so that the reverb went through the rotors - as it would on a single channel model like the L100. Hearing the spinning reverb through the Vent 50 years on brought memories flooding back about how much a special single channel mod was going to cost -- and what it would do to the warranty -- etc..etc.. Happy days.... As I say, I don't think this Vent is going back -- even though it is a LOT of money for an effects pedal!

I found this option best to initially try out a Spitfire Library : https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/bbc-symphony-orchestra-discover/ Either $49 - or free if you just wait 2 weeks. And it is pretty impressive, IMO .. and no Kontact player required either..

Interesting perspective. There's a lot of online discussion of what people think is wrong with the YC organ sound, not as much discussion of what is good. Imo Yamaha did a great job with the basic organ tone. It has a gritty thunk I just love. Fast leslie upper drawbars out is the stress test for a leslie sim, and the YC doesn't do very well there. That will matter to some players more than others. You can achieve the typical Jimmy Smith/Larry Young jazz sound without ever going there, which is probably why I'm less annoyed by it than some people apparently are. I've hardly ever used that setting on any real Hammond or clone, it's just not pleasing to my ears except perhaps as a momentary contrast. When it comes to gospel I'm just a casual observer but it seems to me leslie fast/all drawbars is a fairly common setting. If so, then I wouldn't want the YC for it. But for fast leslie suckage, I don't think anything competes with Dexibell for worst in class. Maybe they've fixed that, but every example I've heard was just horrible. You'd think if they could fix that, they would. But people have different ideas of what a digital leslie emulation should sound like. A fundamental problem with comparing opinions is that we start from different reference points. That's true of a lot of things but especially true for leslie sims. I think most folk use the Neo Ventilator 2 as the 'gold standard' for comparison, but I haven't heard the YC61 through a Vent yet. I'm very tempted to try one - I can always return it if it doesn't offer significant improvements... What is annoying is that Yamaha appear to have taken the trouble to try and construct a highly 'tweakable' rotary sim - and have then blown it in the actual realisation.. The only thing that is really good on both fast and slow speed is the background noise sim .. that works very well! :-) ⢠The adjustable acceleration speeds for both rotors have an arbitrary numbered range ("0.21" to "2.00")... Those bear no resemblance to anything time wise (and 2.00 is the fastest?) ⢠The lower rotor - when set to 0.21 for acceleration - is still not up to full speed after 2 and a half MINUTES (I got bored then, so I don't know how long - if ever - it takes to get up to full speed) ⢠The crossover is not well defined ..and the lower rotor is very weak ⢠The horn rotor has an annoying 'beat' frequency at around 2 or 3 Hz on any fast speed that has nothing to do with the lower rotor (it's still there with the lower rotor level set to 0 ). In short, it's a mess - almost as if the suits were pushing for a release date before things like the rotary sim were ready.... Yamaha are well aware of the discontent about this sim -- it's no. 1 on the YC61 Ideascale website... Whether they will do anything about it? - We shall see. (The main Yamaha tech support guy can get VERY defensive if you dare to criticise anything Yamaha does.... If I do go for a Vent, and then Yamaha miraculously present a brilliant updated sim in the next firmware update, I should probably be annoyed .. although I don't think I probably need to worry too much ... (and a used Vent in good nick should fetch something on Ebay! )

You can direct 2 layers (say organ and piano) one left and one right already .. but doing it is messy! You need to use Effect 12 (Auto pan) and set the rate to 'zero' and the depth to '100%'.....You need to set the rate completely to zero when the signal is in the right place - and if you switch off and on again it resets to the centre position. And you can't 'store' the pan positions. So it's pretty unusable at present - but the routing exists if Yamaha ever decides to implement it...

Yamaha (along with most manufacturers it seems) are not good at rotary (Leslie) sims. Even the sim in their flagship Montage board is not good - and that has already undergone revision! Looks like Vent sales are not likely to take much of a hit any time soon... (Has anyone tried a YC61 through a Vent yet?)

I think that's the best demo I've heard so far -- nice player. (Maybe if I had fingers that long, I could play my YC61 better? ) He doesn't make a big deal about the organ -- and hides the weakest feature well (the rotary speaker on fast - with no chorus or vibrato - is not good -- as has been mentioned many times already) He illustrates just how well some of the other sounds can be mixed and layered - and how Yamaha's new waterfall keyboard can be used really quite effectively on piano. It is a nice board already ... if Yamaha fix some of the annoying little snags, I reckon it could be really very nice!..

I feel you can get closer to the Auger type of sound with the sim turned to 'stop' rather than 'off'.... That leaves the YC61 rotary pre-amp in circuit - with it's quite dramatic e.q - and all it's adjustable 'growls' and 'crunchiness' (for want of better words). H1 especially - without the rotary preamp - is a bit too 'clinical' for that type of sound...

I've found Reaper to be very good value -- and you could carry on using it for free, even after the trial period, if things are really tight - which they can be for some folk at present. Using Reaper as your DAW - and this free Spitfire VST library: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/bbc-symphony-orchestra-discover/ (You have to wait for 2 weeks for the free version) and you could make some really high quality recordings with any MIDI keyboard --and for no extra cash outlay at all ! The quality of some 'freeware' these days is astonishing...

The YC61 is a lot less 'tight and springy' than the Nord Electro keyboard. IMHO, it feels much 'smoother' for want of a better word..... Good for piano as well as organ. Selectable sensitivity as well... No 'high trigger' for organ at the moment ... whether Yamaha will (or can?) change that in a firmware update time will tell? I think the most urgent firmware update requirement is to improve the rotary speaker 'fast' sim. It's not good at present... Nice board overall though, in my opinion...

Nice Demo from Mex .... It does illustrate though just how poor the rotary sim is on the YC61 - at least the fast speed sim is pretty bad. Increasing number of comments about that on the Yamaha forums -- Hopefully Yamaha will address the issue in the next firmware update?.. All the necessary 'tweak' controls are already there in the menus..... They just don't currently do what it says on the tin ! Anyone heard a YC61 through a Vent yet?...

I found this response from Yamaha on their forum as an answer to that expression pedal function: "Press [MENU] > 'General' > 'MIDI Settings' > select 'Controller Reset' Change the setting to HOLD. The Foot Controller will now be 'live' (Page 37 in the Owner"s Manual for more details)" Seems to work fine....

It's cost. At this budget price point, a few cents saving makes a difference. Cheers, Mike. Crazy thing is the earlier and cheaper P35 did have standard MIDI connectors! (Although no USB ) Using it to control the YC61 AP and EP voices, it might be worth looking for an older P series? (Same GHS keybed, and you're not bothered about the internal piano voices)