OT: I just got the vaccine. Ask me anything.

[MathOfInsects]

Wow...

 

TL;DR: Indeed, the misinformed medical "provider" is not a doctor after all.

[gg22]

Well, I wish we had your problems here in Canada. Our chances to get vaccinated this year are slim. Our government fucked up hard on vaccines.

[jazzpiano88]

Wow...

TL;DR: Indeed, the misinformed medical "provider" is not a doctor after all.

 

I actually think D.O.s are probably better than MDs who throw the flowchart at every problem like a glorified repair man.

[Adan]

Wow, looks like I've stirred the pot up again on this forum. So a bunch of keyboardists likely none of which have any medical training or background think they know more than a D.O. with over 20 years of experience? This guy literally helped save my life because he thinks outside of the box compared to most MDs. Actually spends at least 30 minutes at your appointment vs. the 5 minutes most insurance driven doctors give you these days.

 

What about my doctor's patient who after receiving the second dose of the Modera "vaccine" developed a Parkinsons-like body tremor that doesn't go away even while asleep? Is this just an anomaly or is this something that affected her quicker than others who have gotten their second dose and are essentially just ticking time bombs right now?

 

Do what you wish but I'll protect myself by either wearing a mask (debatable whether how much they really work) or wear my personal air purifier that emits a small dose of ozone and photocatalytic ionization which kills anything in a 6 foot bubble.

 

The question is, do these vaccines alter human DNA or don't they. Let's look at this as an epistemological matter. Although there's a couple doctors on here, most of us are not, so the question for most of us is who do you look to for an authoritative answer. On the one hand there are experts in the field. On the other there is your generalist. Is it possible the experts are wrong and your doctor is right? I suppose so, but it seems pretty unlikely.

 

in any case, it's good to hear you're being careful. Keep a low profile long enough and you'll probably be fine.

[El Lobo]

So a bunch of keyboardists likely none of which have any medical training or background think they know more than a D.O. with over 20 years of experience?

False comparison. Whether or not the vaccine "changes your DNA" is a question of scientific fact and is irrelevant to the experience of the D.O. or the (unknown) expertise of the keyboard players who commented. The vaccine does not change your DNA. If the D.O. actually said that, he's wrong.

[pinkfloydcramer]

I'm happy to be an essential music worker, of sorts, or at least I would be if that wasn't a contradiction in terms. I am currently taking the place of 2 players in my old group until they feel comfortable gigging again. I live by myself and (other than gigging) am a recluse so don't have to worry about passing it along to anyone else. Not the least worried about being ostracized, unfriended etc. by anyone who doesn't approve, here or anywhere else. Having said that, I'll gladly take the vaccine when it becomes available to me, which may be a while.

 

I think some of my bandmates have Polkahero's device, they are fully capable of emitting a cloud that kills anything within 6 feet.

[jazzpiano88]

So a bunch of keyboardists likely none of which have any medical training or background think they know more than a D.O. with over 20 years of experience?

False comparison. Whether or not the vaccine "changes your DNA" is a question of scientific fact and is irrelevant to the experience of the D.O. or the (unknown) expertise of the keyboard players who commented. The vaccine does not change your DNA. If the D.O. actually said that, he's wrong.

 

No? I was hoping the technology could morph us into another animal (e.g. snake?).

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDW9EstrlPI

[Polkahero]

Wow...

 

TL;DR: Indeed, the misinformed medical "provider" is not a doctor after all.

 

At least I can read, lol. Thought I put you on my ignore list on this forum as you contribute nothing on here.

[timwat]

From what little I've read as a non-scientist, the idea that vaccines might alter our DNA came from the somewhat-related discovery that certain retroviruses can transform their single-strand RNA into double-strand DNA, enter the nucleus of a human cell, and begin replicating themselves by using our own cells as a factory. The most known of these retroviruses may be HIV. In order for the conversion of RNA to DNA to occur, it must first produce a protein (enzyme) class known as reverse transcriptase. HIV does this, and thus some of the effective HIV treatments include reverse transcriptase inhibitors, which prevent the virus from integrating into the genome of the host cell.

 

The assurance I've read is that the mRNA vaccines do not contain any reverse transcriptase elements. Reverse transcriptase activity in vaccines is something the vaccine producing community has been well aware of for decades, it appears from the literature I was able to find quickly, which suggests measurement, assessment and control of same is not new to vaccine production.

 

I don't know anything else about this other than several sources noting none of the mRNA vaccines produced for COVID contain any RT enzymes.

 

As a postscript, it does not appear from my reading that the distinction between DO and MD physicians needs to warrant any immediate alarm regarding their effectiveness as generalist physicians, presuming the DO received their degree in the US. Both appear to have similar educational paths, levels of training and are held to the same standards. It should be noted that non-US DO degrees are not recognized in the United States.

[KuruPrionz]

I got a Moderna vaccine this afternoon. I'm 65 and allowed in this wave of vaccinations. Supplies are smaller than demand at this point.

A friend is a pharmacist at a Kroger's chain store (Fred Meyer). They had a cancellation so he called me and told me to come get it.

So far so good, I won't be surprised if it makes me feel off a bit for a while.

 

I go back in 27 days, then I've had it. I'll check in if there is anything to note.

[cp-the-nerd]

Wow, looks like I've stirred the pot up again on this forum. So a bunch of keyboardists likely none of which have any medical training or background think they know more than a D.O. with over 20 years of experience? This guy literally helped save my life because he thinks outside of the box compared to most MDs. Actually spends at least 30 minutes at your appointment vs. the 5 minutes most insurance driven doctors give you these days.

 

What about my doctor's patient who after receiving the second dose of the Modera "vaccine" developed a Parkinsons-like body tremor that doesn't go away even while asleep? Is this just an anomaly or is this something that affected her quicker than others who have gotten their second dose and are essentially just ticking time bombs right now?

 

Do what you wish but I'll protect myself by either wearing a mask (debatable whether how much they really work) or wear my personal air purifier that emits a small dose of ozone and photocatalytic ionization which kills anything in a 6 foot bubble.

 

It doesn't actually matter what qualifications your medical practitioner has. What you stated in your post is factually erroneous on multiple points. Claiming it changes your DNA is darkweb flat-earth conspiracy level bullshittery. Your "information" is second-hand paranoid nonsense.

 

The hospital where my wife works has administered THOUSANDS of Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. If there were dangerous side effects occurring, she would have to be in on the vast cover-up because she has to cycle into shifts at the vaccine clinic to oversee the preparation of doses.

[Rofox]

Had mine on Sunday. I'm 73 and in the "vulnerable category". It was the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine. Totally painless and no after effects, unlike four of my peers who had a variety of after effects including sore arms and a need for sleep. Here in the UK we currently have access to the Pfizer and O/AZ shots but the Moderna vaccine will arrive in the summer plus the Valneva jab is being manufactured in Scotland and should be available together with the Jannsen option soon. The UK was swift off the mark (cynics may say desperate) to secure a variety of vaccines early on - there's enough of the Oxford jab alone to give everyone over 20 four shots! Currently about 16% of the population have had the first dose and the aim is to have all over 50's vaccinated by early May. Take up of the vaccine is relatively low for minorities here, whether through fear, lack of knowledge or mistrust I don't know. However the program is already having an effect with infections falling and the R rate dropping.

Here's looking towards the sunny uplands of a (relatively) happy summer for all.

[MAJUSCULE]

Well, I wish we had your problems here in Canada. Our chances to get vaccinated this year are slim. Our government fucked up hard on vaccines.

 

I hear you on this, but, uh, there are other problems I'd rather not have.

[Stokely]

This is basically a race--can we achieve enough vaccination before it mutates enough so that the vaccines don't work (well enough)? If not, Covid becomes endemic and we deal with it basically forever, like the flu (ironically, all flu strains today can be at least partially traced back to the 1918 pandemic.) While that is bad, it may mean that it ends up having milder effects than what we see now. Better to put 110% into getting rid of it now, it's the best and maybe only chance we have to do it. I personally don't have high hopes it will happen just due to the conspiracy thinking that has gripped so many people.

 

On a happy note though, mrna vaccines have a ton of promise, potentially to deal with things that have never had any form of vaccine before.

 

Derek Lowe has some great articles on vaccines and other covid-related things. I don't know this stuff very well but am on some forums with people that do, and they speak pretty highly of him. He keeps things within reach of laypeople like myself!

 

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/

 

As far as docs...the surgeon who literally wrote the book on brain surgery said this about the Pyramids in Egypt: "My own personal theory is that Joseph built the pyramids to store grain."

Ok, doc.

[Joe Muscara]

Also, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is only showing a 66% effective rate, versus 95% for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

Even though the J&J is lower, these are all considered excellent effective rates. The FDA uses 50% for a baseline rate to approve vaccines, and all three of these vaccines went screaming past that.

 

The Janssen COVID-19 vaccine candidate demonstrated complete protection against COVID-related hospitalization and death, 28 days post-vaccination. There was a clear effect of the vaccine on COVID-19 cases requiring medical intervention (hospitalization, ICU admission, mechanical ventilation, extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO), with no reported cases among participants who had received the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine, 28 days post-vaccination.

 

That's right, all the deaths in the trial were from the placebo group. Zero were the ones who received the vaccine.

 

clonk

[Joe Muscara]

Wait, the vaccines don't alter our DNA? Shoot, it's looking less and less likely that I'll be developing superpowers after all.

[cedar]

Wait, the vaccines don't alter our DNA? Shoot, it's looking less and less likely that I'll be developing superpowers after all.

 

Look at the bright side: it's probably also somewhat less likely that the human race will be wiped out through some unexpected side effect (like I think happened in "I am Legend" and maybe one of the Planet of the Ape movies).

[Melving]

Sigh. DNA to mRNA to protein. Then mRNA degrades. Producing a reverse transcriptase just isn't going to happen from a bit of spike mRNA. The process just isn't going to magically go the other direction in humans.

[Tom Williams]

My third arm is showing promise -- it's another left arm, and after I build up my strength I am pretty sure I'll be able to use one for the bass lines and the other for comping, freeing up my right hand for more ornamental stuff.

 

Unrelated: If Uli can put together a vaccine for half the price of the others, we should be able to send the surplus to Canada.

[nursers]

My third arm is showing promise -- it's another left arm, and after I build up my strength I am pretty sure I'll be able to use one for the bass lines and the other for comping, freeing up my right hand for more ornamental stuff.

 

Unrelated: If Uli can put together a vaccine for half the price of the others, we should be able to send the surplus to Canada.

 

See, that's the sort of innovation we need more of in the world

[MAJUSCULE]

My third arm is showing promise -- it's another left arm, and after I build up my strength I am pretty sure I'll be able to use one for the bass lines and the other for comping, freeing up my right hand for more ornamental stuff.

 

Unrelated: If Uli can put together a vaccine for half the price of the others, we should be able to send the surplus to Canada.

 

Honestly, disappointing. I've been on my soapbox for years that humans should have a regenerative third arm made of pizza. Instant snack, plus all the usual arm tricks. And we'd never have to hear anyone say "Give a man to fish..." ever again!

[KuruPrionz]

My third arm is showing promise -- it's another left arm, and after I build up my strength I am pretty sure I'll be able to use one for the bass lines and the other for comping, freeing up my right hand for more ornamental stuff.

 

Unrelated: If Uli can put together a vaccine for half the price of the others, we should be able to send the surplus to Canada.

 

Juggling, become a juggler. Will also be handy if you grow an extra foot and need to touch your toes.

[b3keys]

The question that no one is yet addressing is how long the vaccine protects? Are we going to have to get annual shots like the flu shot and will there ever be enough supply to vaccinate everyone? Will we ever be able to not wear masks, go to concerts, go to restaurants, etc?

[Mighty Motif Max]

The question that no one is yet addressing is how long the vaccine protects? Are we going to have to get annual shots like the flu shot and will there ever be enough supply to vaccinate everyone? Will we ever be able to not wear masks, go to concerts, go to restaurants, etc?

 

Right. We don't know because we couldn't do years of testing in preparation. We do know that the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is being used in the UK and awaiting US approval, works at 76% effectiveness for 90 days. If a booster shot is given at the 90 day mark, it raises the total effectiveness of the vaccine to 82%. How long that then lasts is something I don't know at this point.

[nursers]

The question that no one is yet addressing is how long the vaccine protects? Are we going to have to get annual shots like the flu shot and will there ever be enough supply to vaccinate everyone? Will we ever be able to not wear masks, go to concerts, go to restaurants, etc?

 

My semi-educated response is:

 

1. Yep I think it will end up like a flu-shot, with its composition being determined by most prevalent strains in the community in the year.

 

2. One we get over this inital hump and hopefully to some sort of herd immunity, I can't see supply being an issue.

 

3. I think we will be able to go back to no masks etc. I'm already going to concerts and restaurants etc, albeit less regularly and with lower attedance numbers, due to our overall COVID numbers being low and a robust public health capability.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Yeah, I figure that eventually it will end up just being another yearly shot (assuming they don't seriously screw it up) like the flu shot. I feel like right now we're at the equivalent of 1943 or so in the flu vaccine development with regards to COVID.

[KuruPrionz]

It will be like the flu. We will never be done with it.

 

As to how long the current vaccine will last, there is not one answer. We may see mutation, that's what viruses do. Some of those mutations may be less fun than others, like the Hong Kong flu (we were well into vaccination at that point).

Some may be more like a mild flu. As we have more vaccines and the vaccines evolve, we will develop more immunity as individuals and that translates into herd immunity. Some will not be as immune as others, that's always been true.

 

The current situation is no time to let our guard down. We are not out of the woods yet, there is a ways to go. We will learn as we go and the mutation factor means we will never know everything and be able to eradicate this disease like we did smallpox or polio.

 

Things will get better, much better. Patience will be needed and while things have changed, that's not over by any means. Be safe! Kuru

[ksoper]

 

Some people know that the average fatility ratio is about 1.6% and is stratified to << 0.5% for people under 70. and < 0.03% for people under 50. Those people go about their daily business.

 

They go about their business blissfully unaware that if they find themselves in need of an icu bed, say, a bad car wreck, they're fucked. There are no available icu beds in the Nashville Metro area. Or in the suburbs. Or the rural areas. Or the state. Or Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, Georgia, North Carolina, Arkansas... My wife coded and intubated a guy in the icu hallway because there was no where else to put him. So yeah, the chances of you actually dying from covid are small. The chances of you dying because there's no room at the inn are exponentially greater.

 

Again, I'm not proselytizing. This is just fact. Do what you want.

[nursers]

That's a great point Ken. As an RN is understand how bad things need to be to be intubating someone in a corridor

[Stokely]

The question that no one is yet addressing is how long the vaccine protects? Are we going to have to get annual shots like the flu shot and will there ever be enough supply to vaccinate everyone? Will we ever be able to not wear masks, go to concerts, go to restaurants, etc?

 

 

That may depend on whether we--we being the people of the planet-- can get enough people vaccinated that we essentially wipe this out. That would have to happen soon from what I've read, since mutations will continue to happen and there's always the chance that existing vaccines won't work on it.

 

As we can see from the return of diseases like Measles, you can get close to wiping something out but it can make a comeback. From an article I was reading:

 

'It"s that much more important for those who are immuno-competent to get vaccinated in order to protect those who can"t get vaccinated,' Dr. Chandra-Puri says. 'You rely on herd immunity. The concept is so important. That"s why measles is no longer endemic to the U.S.' Instead, the virus is now imported from countries with lower vaccination rates. That is believed to be the cause of the current outbreak."

 

Personally, unlike what she said above about Measles not being endemic to the US any longer, I doubt that will happen with covid. Too many people won't get the vaccines, so we'll likely be stuck with some form of it. It may be less dangerous, hopefully.

 

The idea that wearing masks and getting vaccines is some "personal freedom" issue is ludicrous. Do we make the same argument about being able to drive drunk (if I want to, it's my right!) or juggling chainsaws in a supermarket? And it's truly stupid that this was politicized in the first place. I saw that two cruise lines are going to require vaccination proof, I hope that trend continues. Maybe the incentive of missing out on things can get enough people vaccinated where we won't be dealing (at the least) with something as deadly and with so many possible effects in people that it doesn't kill (something to keep in mind any time death % comes out.)