Paughrock Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I continually hear his name being used in conjunction with terms/phrases like 'genius' and 'string of masterpieces?' What am I missing here? These are not youtube commenters, fans, etc., but NPR interviews, major publications. The guy has sold out top tier concert halls for thirty years and counting.,. Sorry, just not getting it...someone like Jarrett or Meldhau, sure, they will start with the same basic folk/pop motifs in a solo piano setting, but then take those ideas and develop them to the stratosphere and beyond...Winston will play the motif, and that"s it...it is cocktail piano...not that there is anything wrong with instrumental solo piano, but I just don"t understand the 'genius" moniker. [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Sounds pretty much like every wedding gig I did where the bride selected Pachelbel (or "Taco Bell" as we called it) for one of the ceremony songs. I'd play the tune but the procession was long, or the bride took her time before walking down the aisle â so I'd start some quasi-new-age noodling on the chord structure to vamp while they got their shit together. I never knew I producing genius music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paughrock Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 This guy has made millions and only records/plays solo...kinda makes me question why I dedicated my life to studying and performing improvisation...I was doing this when I was ten. Should have quit studying then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I wasn't aware that anyone ever called him a genius. He was certainly popular for awhile. I've always considered it good music to shop for candles by. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paughrock Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 Not only a genius Adan, but a supremely gifted one... https://washingtonlife.com/2011/12/09/music-notes-george-winston-humble-genius/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Lol! I learned last night through Josh Paxton's live stream that he is a lifelong James Booker fan. Yeah, surprised me too. (I thought this thread would be praising him, which is why I'm laughing.) Quote Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 He is a genius. He understands what an audience really wants to hear. Going outside is outside for a reason. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paughrock Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 A true genius can control how long to take it outside. Not sure if Winston even knows how to play outside. This guy certainly knows how to take it out with total control and balance...[video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 George Winston fans are also big fans of Thomas Kinkade Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Lol! I learned last night through Josh Paxton's live stream that he is a lifelong James Booker fan. Yeah, surprised me too. I knew that, and was similarly astounded. Winston was also a huge fan of Henry Butler. Difficult to see how those guys rubbed off on him. If you really try to find something in the Booker comparison, I suppose there is the emphasis on motifs (albeit not New Orleans motifs), the drilling down on theme without ever going outside, the insistent rhythmic structure, and the infusion of classical. But completely lacking is the irreverence and spontaneity without which Booker would not ben Booker. In my mind I imagine Winston studied those two from afar without ever going on a New Orleans binge. Josh would have some insight, maybe he'll weigh in here. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 He was in the right place at the right time for the whole "new age" music scene. I'm not blown away by his music, but I did meet him...he's a very nice guy, and is indeed humble. He loves what he does, he supports other artists, so what the heck...that works for me Just don't get me started on Kenny G. You're welcome. Quote Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 George Winston fans are also big fans of Thomas Kinkade Now that's funny! Quote Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Meet the new George Winston (and read the comments for some real entertainment). [video:youtube]https://youtu.be/QTACugN67yc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I've never been much of a fan of either George Winston or Keith Jarrett, although I've listened to them both. They do what they do. I am a big fan of Josh Paxton and James Booker and Henry Butler and New Orleans piano. I also sit at the keyboard and play my way through a tune and go off in different directions, change the chords around, try variations on different melodies, explore different scales, but I would never subject a listener to any of my noodlings. They're only for my entertainment and edification. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 It's a style/genre of piano music that some people appreciate ... and others don't Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Re Winston - the two articles that popped up from my search of "George Winston Genius" both seemed to revere him because his music personally touches the author in emotional ways. While we might argue that doesn't necessarily mean he's a genius, it's still saying an awful lot. I mean, that's kind of why we all play music to begin with, isn't it? Combine that with Winston's widely-reported humility (no evidence I could find that he's ever claimed to be a musical genius himself), and heck, we have a guy who loves playing the piano and has touched many people at an emotional level. That's a great thing to accomplish in my book. Re Jarrett - personally, I think he may be the greatest living jazz pianist we have today. And, interestingly, he might just agree with me. Horses for courses. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Is Jim Brickman a KC Member? I tell you, what a career. [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksoper Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I did a wedding gig where I was the ceremony musician, the cocktail pianist and later a band member. After the ceremony, since I can't stand to listen to my solo piano playing, I had a cocktail and launched into mindless noodling. Someone came up to me and said, "Hey, that's George Winston, right?" Quote 9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 George Winston fans are also big fans of Thomas Kinkade Now that's funny! Had to look up Kinkade. Ouch. That's funny, but maybe a little too extreme. Winston carved his own niche. It may not be very adventurous, but it's still his. Kinkade seems like a glorified Hallmark craftsman. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkfloydcramer Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I agree with timwat. It's hard to find fault with being able to touch people emotionally. I was first aware of George Winston in 1987, when I started getting requests for his music at a restaurant piano gig. I've kept up with him through the years mainly through articles and reviews in Keyboard. Until now I have never heard of him being called him a genius. To me he's a good musician with a very distinctive vibe. I still think "December" is a good Christmas album. My favorite cut on it is the simplest of them all, "Some Children See Him". IMO comparing him to the FKJ guy is like comparing Kenny G to David Sanborn. FKJ just seemed to string together some unrelated but ok chops, I never thought of George Winston's best stuff as mindless noodling. A girlfriend took me to a performance of his in 1989, it was good and he had a good rapport with the audience. Along with his album material he did an adaptation of Steve Reich that stood out, also at one point he played some James Booker but the crowd, not being blues fans, wasn't into it. He has some really good NOLA style chops but his take on that style doesn't really do it for me (my own attempts at playing like Booker or Henry Butler don't either, but I enjoy trying). I always thought that the iconic piano part that Bobby Wood recorded for "The Dance" was inspired by GW. Maybe that's why GW covered it on a later album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrythek Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 He's also a big fan of Vince Guaraldi's music. That video posted is not my cup of tea/taste, but whatever... some people certainly must like it. I think he does a good job with Guaraldi.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 George Winston is easily palatable piano music for people who hate jazz. And it"s masterful at being exactly that. Plus, I hear he"s very entertaining live. He was to the late 80s/90s what Clayderman was to the 70s. He has been largely supplanted in standard-piano-student repertoire here in Europe by Yann Tiersen (late 90s-00s and to some extent still today) and Ludovico Einaudi. They"re all variants of the âtake a basic theme through permutations based on inversions and rhythmic variation and add a B Theme if necessary' piano business. George Winston was what got me started improvising back in the late 80s. Quote "The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk) The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paughrock Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 I just think the term 'genius' needs to stop being used when describing musicians. Everyone and their 6 year old are now suddenly all 'geniuses...'I can"t remember who the reviewer was (used to write for the times...) but there was a story about him meeting a woman at a party who kept going on about what an incredible pianist Winston was. The reviewer told her 'lady, give me 15 minutes and I can teach you to play like Winston, and I don"t even play piano...' Now if Winston could play Liszt but chose to dial it down to what he does, maybe the argument could be made that he is a genius for deliberately delivering a relatable product in which people hear themselves in his playing ('I could play that!), but that is not the case...Winston simply loves what he plays, and enjoys connecting to his audience. That is called being a 'good musician' in my books. Whether you"re playing Lizst, or whether you"re being paid millions to vamp on a Vince Guaraldi theme with no improv section, it"s the same thing. Enough with the genius. I doubt Winston himself would be comfortable with being called that as he does seem incredibly down to earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipogrito Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I think December was a great album. I enjoyed it a lot back in those late 80's and early 90's. He and David Lanz and the Suzanne Ciani of that time... all created nice melodies and, as someone mentioned, it wasn't jazz. Many musicians love complex jazz chords and progressions where regular folks can't really tell what's going on but, the regular folk of that time just enjoyed nice melodies and simple progressions and those guys did it really well. Personally in those years I would listen to December and then to Selling England by the Pound... there was a moment of the day for everything. Now, if I may add, the pianist of that era and those record labels (Windham Hill, Narada, etc) that I really really really liked was Triona Di Dhomhnaill, of Nightnoise, those trills she played were great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXs3nr0f4HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Well that's the internet also that fuels that shit. We have a lot of youtube musicians out there. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paughrock Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 Here is my cup of tea for old school 'new age' [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 I don't begrudge George Winston at all for his success, I'm happy for him. For all I know, he fell into his fame and fortune by accident and maybe he's as befuddled by it as anyone else might be. If I were him and that kind of thing happened to me I would probably milk it for all it's worth. The chance to be a financially secure full-time musician is something that doesn't come along too often for even the best players (and to be clear I am not saying he's trying to fool us and is only in it for the money!). I'm happy for the guy and wish him continued success. At the same time, we all have our own criteria and measuring sticks according to the style of music we come to favor â or the style we spend a lifetime trying to master! If you're a reasonably well-studied musician familiar with basic music theory, you can hear that his harmonic vocabulary is quite simple and that any reasonably competent jazz pianist could do what he does without thinking too hard. The difference is, imo, TIMING! Audiences grow up, their tastes changes and musical styles go in and out of favor. Catch that wave at the right time, make a record with a company that has proper distribution, have an emerging radio format that caters to your sound, and you can hit that lotto ticket. That's what I believe happened in his case. Good on him. Comparisons and "genius" monikers are just arguing points that pass the time and let everyone be a critic - which is just another way of giving ourselves some purpose and validation on this quick journey we're on. PS - that's a beautiful Bill Evans track, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Well that's the internet also that fuels that shit. We have a lot of youtube musicians out there. YouTube proves every day that there are all styles and levels of music makers all around us. Wonderfully skilled players abound. Writers of compelling original music are more rare. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Tough crowd, today.. There are times I like listening to music with lots of tension/resolution, other times I prefer simpler melodies with harmonies that vary, but rarely go outside. Occasionally both in the same tune, or opus. 'Horses for courses' speaks volumes here... Outside for the sake of outside is somewhat silly, to me; but to each their own. When first stumbling into the late 1980's jobbing scene in Chicago, I got a call from a rather established leader who often used an advanced-degreed jazz dude from a local university. I was surprised, considering my basic jazz-pop skills then (my 'outside' playing being somewhat minimal). Over the course of a few gigs I discovered the reason for being called back: The leader liked that I played piano parts that locked-down with the rhythm section, and fit the song; also synth parts that fit - most of the time, anyway. Apparently the heavy-duty jazz guy 'noodled all over everything'; little if any groove. A couple years later I was giving a piano lesson to a big-band brass guy. We were discussing scale and soloing options on an arrangement he'd done - minor vs major blues, modal concepts, etc. Somewhere in the process, he stated: "...but jazz is the purest art form, after all". It was very, very hard not to laugh. Quote 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paughrock Posted April 6, 2020 Author Share Posted April 6, 2020 Hold on..just making sure this thread is not construed as a diss against Winston. It"s not. It"s a diss on the misuse of the word genius. To your comment, you can have an educated, trained jazz musician who knows theory inside/out who is still a terrible player due to a number of factors that are consistent to every musical genre: i.e. good meter, knowing when to step up, or when to step down, ensemble awareness, etc. In defence of Winston, I would say he knows to play within the limits of his own musicianship which is something a lot of younger, educated jazz players really do not get...everything I see on youtube now of younger players is 'look at how good I am at reharm!' Hipness is a disease if you don"t keep it in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.