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Jazz is cool #3002318 08/08/19 05:18 PM
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Theo Verelst Online Confused OP
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Isn't it ?

Among all the new stuff populist styles and the glee around people copying it, maybe sometimes it's a good contemplation what's cool and what's not.

Maybe some Jazz is party, and up tempo, but still, mostly Jazz musicians are supposed to be cool, that's what people expect.

T

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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002321 08/08/19 05:34 PM
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There was a time, before Birth of the Cool, when jazz was ‘hot’. Your task: Compare and Contrast.

Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002324 08/08/19 05:45 PM
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The music style nobody will pay good money to listen to live.


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002327 08/08/19 05:54 PM
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The best....


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002332 08/08/19 06:25 PM
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"Cool", as in "not showing much emotion or enthusiasm"?

Not during the time of Frankie Manning:



Link if video embedding is busted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFpU5ypLrKQ

From some perspectives, the decline of jazz as the dominant form of popular music began with the separation of the musicians and the dancers - that is, when jazz stopped being a music to dance to. I'm not sure that's MY perspective, but its something I've heard from others... peeps who also blame the Charlies (Christian and Parker) and their buddies on 52nd St. for the evolution of bebop which discouraged dancing.

I think the end began when jazz stopped being a music of the street, just as hip hop began as a music of the street later.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 08/08/19 06:29 PM.
Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002335 08/08/19 06:32 PM
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Jazz isn't dead. It just smells funny.

-Frank Zappa


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: jeffinpghpa] #3002340 08/08/19 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
Jazz isn't dead. It just smells funny.

-Frank Zappa


Zappa was a funny dude, and I'm familiar with that joke, but I want to clarify that I did not say jazz is dead.

It was replaced as the dominant popular music, which is different.

Anyway, the OP's talking about whether it is a music that is "cool", as in played with little emotional display, like orchestral classical music.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 08/08/19 06:49 PM.
Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002343 08/08/19 07:11 PM
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You talking about Jazz the style or real Jazz the approach the playing. Most people don't know there's a difference and that includes people playing it.

Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Docbop] #3002347 08/08/19 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Docbop
You talking about Jazz the style or real Jazz the approach the playing. Most people don't know there's a difference and that includes people playing it.

Very true Doc..!


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: jeffinpghpa] #3002348 08/08/19 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
Jazz isn't dead. It just smells funny.

-Frank Zappa

There was an article posted here a while back from Sound On Sound or one of the other audio mags that said there are more people today that want to play jazz than there are those who want to listen to it.

pretty cringe-worthy but probably accurate


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: GovernorSilver] #3002352 08/08/19 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
Jazz isn't dead. It just smells funny.

-Frank Zappa


Zappa was a funny dude, and I'm familiar with that joke, but I want to clarify that I did not say jazz is dead.

It was replaced as the dominant popular music, which is different.

Anyway, the OP's talking about whether it is a music that is "cool", as in played with little emotional display, like orchestral classical music.

Not quoting a dictionary, but my understanding of 'cool' is not strictly about having little emotional display, and I would never describe orchestral classical music players as 'cool', rather highly focused, nondescript, 'orchestrated' players.

For me, 'cool' is two different qualities, as in 'cool under pressure', not freaking out. It can also mean 'cool', as the embodiment of confidence, and a je ne sais quoi charisma(?) that people who do not possess it are in awe of, as in someone who doesn't have to try to be awesome, they just are. You get the idea, I'm sure someone else can better characterize it in words. But while there's these more conventional definitions, there's also the use of 'cool' in the same way 'bitchin' was once used, and in this common usage, the Frankie Manning video COULD be described as 'cool'.


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Randelph] #3002358 08/08/19 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Randelph

For me, 'cool' is two different qualities, as in 'cool under pressure', not freaking out. It can also mean 'cool', as the embodiment of confidence, and a je ne sais quoi charisma(?) that people who do not possess it are in awe of, as in someone who doesn't have to try to be awesome, they just are. You get the idea, I'm sure someone else can better characterize it in words. But while there's these more conventional definitions, there's also the use of 'cool' in the same way 'bitchin' was once used, and in this common usage, the Frankie Manning video COULD be described as 'cool'.


I interpreted the OP's post as meaning the former rather than the latter.

So, "cool" as in the musical performance approach favored by the Tristano school, the "West Coast" musos, the "Birth of the Cool" record, etc. Jazz fans today consider Bird to be "cool" but who in their right mind would consider "Donna Lee" to be an example of "cool jazz"?

When I took jazz history class in community college, the "cool jazz" movement was portrayed as a reaction to the fiery bebop school originating on 52nd St. in Harlem. Dunno if that's still accepted as true history by the jazz scholars these days.

Have you read this book?
https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Konitz-Conversations-Improvisers-Perspectives/dp/0472032178

Konitz has some strong opinions, to say the least, about being a musician vs. being an "entertainer". To him, an "entertainer" is not "cool". A "cool" musician and a musician who plays music seriously is one and the same to him.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 08/08/19 08:44 PM.
Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002359 08/08/19 08:39 PM
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Zappa also called jazz “the music of unemployment.” laugh

Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002365 08/08/19 09:04 PM
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Biggest crowd of people under 30 that I saw at a jazz performance was at Cropped Out 2014 Festival in Louisville KY. It was when Sun Ra Arkestra played their set. Just a sea of young people surrounding the stage. A few months later, I got to see them again at the Lincoln Theater with special guest Bernie Worrell - that show was well attended but it was more of a mixed crowd, age-wise.

Sun Ra left us years ago, but Marshall Allen and crew have a way compelling young people to come out to jazz shows, just by being who they are.

Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002366 08/08/19 09:09 PM
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Newport Jazz Festival was last weekend. I wonder how well attended it was?


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002369 08/08/19 09:19 PM
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"That girl is red-hot", "what a cool babe", unless this group has led an unearthly statistically unlikely (hobby) musicians life, a huge majority of the males probably communicated about the coolness subject in such area of interest as well.

Maybe some (partly) improvised progressive musicians remain outwardly cool, while their creative spirit is alike an energetic plasma, and their intelligence at high speed !

T

Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002391 08/08/19 10:44 PM
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Keyboard players appointing themselves as arbiters of “cool”?

Hey, it could work. I guess.

Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002398 08/08/19 10:55 PM
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Except Bebop and hardbop, nobody gets those 😂


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: David Loving] #3002400 08/08/19 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by David Loving
The music style nobody will pay good money to listen to live.


...or not.


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002556 08/10/19 03:10 AM
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This article says the 2019 Newport Jazz festival was a near sellout. I guess that means it was well attended?
https://whatsuprhodeisland.com/2019/08/2019-newport-jazz-festival-day-2-recap-and-photos/

Back to the OP's question, from what I can understand of it... I have no idea if other people think jazz is cool. All I know is that whenever Sun Ra Arkestra comes to town, people pack the place to the gills. They also seem to come out in droves for Pharaoh Sanders and Snarky Puppy.

I personally don't think about jazz being cool or not cool. I just listen to it and try to play it.

Just like the peeps who are into the sport of curling around here - haven't seen it played, but I heard it's a thing. This is a sport that has been the butt of jokes on American sports radio shows, yet there they are, pursuing this sport. People who truly have a passion for something do not seem to care if it is cool or not.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 08/10/19 03:30 AM.
Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002690 08/10/19 11:53 PM
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I like hot jazz, not cool and restrained jazz. I like piano players in the Oscar Peterson, Gene Harris, Monty Alexander,Wynton Kelly, Red Garland, Joey DeFrancesco, Jimmy Smith, Errol Garner stream. Uplifting music! Cool jazz is good for relaxin or background music.


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002725 08/11/19 10:07 AM
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I'd say all traditional and currently actually progressive (and with that I don't mean the "ability" to play back samples or something) Jazz I've seen at North Sea Jazz (recent years mostly on TV) usually contains the _cool_ element I meant.

T

Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002729 08/11/19 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Theo Verelst
I'd say all traditional and currently actually progressive (and with that I don't mean the "ability" to play back samples or something) Jazz I've seen at North Sea Jazz (recent years mostly on TV) usually contains the _cool_ element I meant.

T


North Sea Jazz had less and less to do with jazz and more your run-of-the-mill festival with popular artists. Jazz is more on the background then ever and that's a real shame.


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Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002736 08/11/19 01:21 PM
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I'm confused. Is this cool or hot?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj0TjIZZs7Q

Re: Jazz is cool [Re: Theo Verelst] #3002830 08/12/19 12:40 AM
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To add to the confusion, there is a sub-genre of jazz called "Hot Club". Learned about it on Fiddle Forum from a jazz violinist's frequent rants about the Hot Club style and how he was expected to play it, when he's more into jazz violin as represented by Jean Luc Ponty and others who emerged after him.

https://www.npr.org/2008/11/24/97402070/djangos-world-hot-club-jazz


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