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#2873822 - 08/18/17 06:20 PM Kurzweil SP6
johnchop Offline
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CLONK

That was a surprise!

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#2873827 - 08/18/17 06:34 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
cphollis Offline
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My take is that all these folks are taking notice of what Nord is doing, and responding appropriately. Would not be opposed to considering a Kurz stage piano -- if it brought game.

The light weight is a bit of a puzzler -- 27 pounds? -- how the hell did they do that without making the playing experience cheesy?

Inquiring minds want to know smile
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#2873828 - 08/18/17 06:48 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: cphollis]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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UI is always a good starting place to spend development time.
And although we've come to expect sturdy build from Kurzweil, clearly they're seeing Nord's success with keeping weight down and not really compromising road worthiness.
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#2873832 - 08/18/17 07:14 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: cphollis]
slowtraveler Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
The light weight is a bit of a puzzler -- 27 pounds? -- how the hell did they do that without making the playing experience cheesy?

According to product info on the Kurz web site, the SP6 uses a Medeli K6 action. I don't know how it compares with Fatar's TP/100, which would have been obvious choice for a lightweight 88 (and which Kurz has used in the Artis SE and other SP-series boards).

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#2873834 - 08/18/17 07:23 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: slowtraveler]
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That and the case looks like plastic instead of built like a tank metal.
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#2873848 - 08/18/17 08:55 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: slowtraveler]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: slowtraveler
Originally Posted By: cphollis
The light weight is a bit of a puzzler -- 27 pounds? -- how the hell did they do that without making the playing experience cheesy?

According to product info on the Kurz web site, the SP6 uses a Medeli K6 action. I don't know how it compares with Fatar's TP/100, which would have been obvious choice for a lightweight 88 (and which Kurz has used in the Artis SE and other SP-series boards).


That's the conundrum. Light weight with an action you love to play - developers and players struggle with this trade-off all the time. The SP6 photos are looking like a plastic housing. I am thinking the action is mounted to plastic as well? Or some aluminum in the base? It's not like the TP-100 is favored in scenarios where weight doesn't matter. So, maybe the Medeli action allows them to meet the price point they wanted? Or maybe it actually plays a little better than the TP-100 (which Kurz uses on the SP4). The SP's compete with Casio PX-5S/560. Maybe in the just over $1k price range it steals some folks. 10 velocity curves being offered with this action. One of them has to work decent, right? wink

SP5 uses LK40GH and ways 46.2lbs - so this is drastic weight cut and they moves the pich and mod wheels upstairs to cut down on length.

The SP4 uses the TP-100 and comes in at 36lbs
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#2873864 - 08/19/17 02:20 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Marko in Boston Offline
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A short video clip. Just marketing not a demo

https://vimeo.com/228135336
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#2873877 - 08/19/17 05:41 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Marko in Boston]
cphollis Offline
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From the web page:

"Every sound within the SP6 is perfectly matched to its 88-note fully-weighted hammer-action keyboard. Further tailor the SP6 response to your playing style via 10 selectable key velocity maps."

Hmmm. Fully weighted. Selectable key velocity. 27 pounds. Hmmm.
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#2873888 - 08/19/17 06:54 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: cphollis]
Rusty Mike Offline
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I'd speculate that the SP6 comes from the same manufacturing bones as the KA series, and not the Forte/Artis line. It looks to me like they've taken the sound generation technology from the Forte SE and stuck it into the manufacturing of the home/arranger models.

Depending on the price and the feel of the action, it could make a decent keyboard for rehearsals, backup or pickup gigs. Since it's an SP, I would guess a price of $1500 or less, as they would not want it competing with the Artis. Although it would still compete with the Artis SE, having the advantage of lighter weight and more power under the hood due to the LENA DSP.

They don't say anything specific about the EP sounds, which leads me to believe it uses the old PC3 EP patches. That is disappointing.

We will see when it comes out.


Edited by Rusty Mike (08/19/17 06:55 AM)
Edit Reason: additional thought
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#2873898 - 08/19/17 07:50 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Rusty Mike]
sherry Offline
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Is there a difference between this and the Forte Se, besides weight and key action?

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#2873904 - 08/19/17 08:28 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sherry]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Here's the lineup comparison chart.

http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/forte/product_comparisons/311/
both have 128 poly
Smaller LCD display on the SP6
both have 2gb of flash play samples
no sample memory on the SP6
both have string resonance
SP6 has only 256 factory programs vs. 512 on the SE
SP6 has only 130 Factory Setups/Multis compared to 182 on SE
SP6 has 4 zones, SE 8
They both have some stuff from Kore64 library
SP6 does NOT have VAST editing, where the SE does
Both 32 FX units
The SP6 does NOT have dedicated knobs for Master EQ (this is sort of lame)
No Surf-n-Select sounds navigation on the SP6
No sequencer on the SP6
4 arps on the SP6, 8 on the SE
Same main analog outs on both
No 1/8th" analog ins on the SP6
No digital out on either
No programmable sliders on the SP6, 9 on the SE
4 programmable knobs on the SP6, none on the SE
1 programmable button on the SP6, 11 on the SE
Both have one CC pedal input
Both support half damper on the pianos
Neither have drum pads, ribbon input, or breath control input.

At it's price point, likely between $1 and $1.5k. It's an interesting offering from Kurz, getting quite a bit of the Forte SE (sound wise) in a much cheaper board at half the price.
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#2873909 - 08/19/17 08:55 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Jazzmammal Offline
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The first thing that got me in the vid on the Kurz website is the background "music" is all dubstep style crap while the text overlay and shots of the controls is talking about how great the pianos and organs are but NOT ONE SECOND of a piano or organ sound. It's like they're totally conflicted. They want to produce an instrument with good traditional keyboard sounds but also appeal to DJ's and wannabe "music producers" who will never use those sounds.

Bob

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#2873911 - 08/19/17 09:04 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Jazzmammal]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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They're in a strange new world at Kurzweil.
How to avoid alienating the base (which is an awful lot of pro users) and attract some new fans.

With the full size 88k instruments I think they should focus on players.
To pick up some DJ sales, they should do a VAST VA synth with knobs for every parameter with seq and arp - small keyboard or desktop. Like a cross between a Sledge and a Fantom.

Do they have a tie in, added value with a software developer? They should maybe look for some way they can hook up with Ableton or Propellerheads or something.
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#2873916 - 08/19/17 11:32 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
sherry Offline
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Hmmm. Looks like there will be an editor, so I'm assuming VAST editing will be possible. No sampling is ok with me, but not have the 1/8 " analog inputs so I could at least use an iPad for samples might be a deal breaker for me. Love the weight of this thing though. I'm old.

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#2873918 - 08/19/17 11:54 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sherry]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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If you use an mixer or multi input av direct box you can use iPad.
I'd be very surprised if the editor let you do a great deal programming wise.

When they say you can download more sounds, I presume they mean programs as opposed to additional samples?
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#2873953 - 08/19/17 04:13 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
johnchop Offline
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Looks like no new samples but supports import of PC and Forte series programs, which is cool, since all the sample ROM is in the machine.

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#2873964 - 08/19/17 06:19 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
b3plyr Offline
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The key will be the keybed (pun intended). It uses a Medeli K6. As to sounds, the SP6 has a lot of horsepower in Flash-Play, the LENA Processor, and 32 FX units. FYI, LENA is used in the Forte SE. I like the lightweight, but already have a Forte, so it is wait and see time.

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#2873966 - 08/19/17 06:23 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: b3plyr]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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It looks like the innards would be near the same as the Forte SE. The case, action, and UI/controls and screen being the big difference, and they've turned off a few things to make sure there's no confusion between why this model is over a grand less.
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#2873968 - 08/19/17 07:26 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Rusty Mike]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
The light weight is a bit of a puzzler -- 27 pounds? -- how the hell did they do that without making the playing experience cheesy?

It only has to be no more cheesy than a TP100. ;-)

Originally Posted By: slowtraveler

According to product info on the Kurz web site, the SP6 uses a Medeli K6 action. I don't know how it compares with Fatar's TP/100

Originally Posted By: Rusty Mike
I'd speculate that the SP6 comes from the same manufacturing bones as the KA series, and not the Forte/Artis line. It looks to me like they've taken the sound generation technology from the Forte SE and stuck it into the manufacturing of the home/arranger models.

I think you guys are right. And I'd actually suggested to Dave W. that Kurz do something like that. Which of course is probably nothing but coincidence. It seemed logical to me, though. An updated SP in the lightweight chassis they're sourcing from Medelli anyway would allow them to compete in the lightweight market. As for what it feels like, if it is indeed the action of the KA90, it's adequate, at least as good as a TP100, I'd say. Actually, as a point of reference, I'd say that the common action it most reminds me of is the Yamaha GHS.

Originally Posted By: Rusty Mike
Since it's an SP, I would guess a price of $1500 or less, as they would not want it competing with the Artis. Although it would still compete with the Artis SE, having the advantage of lighter weight and more power under the hood due to the LENA DSP.

I see this as a higher end board than the Artis SE. Maybe it will replace it, or maybe it will sell at a premium to it. I don't think the SP nomenclature necessarily relates to how it will be priced. (They'd also have the option of lowering the price of the Artis SE.)

Originally Posted By: Rusty Mike
They don't say anything specific about the EP sounds, which leads me to believe it uses the old PC3 EP patches. That is disappointing.

The site says, "The SP6 offers all of the sample content from the Forte SE and features a wide selection of tailored sounds from the acclaimed Forte® and Forte SE (EP, Clav, Celeste, Crotales, Harpsichord)"

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Here's the lineup comparison chart.
...
At it's price point, likely between $1 and $1.5k. It's an interesting offering from Kurz, getting quite a bit of the Forte SE (sound wise) in a much cheaper board at half the price.

Sub-$1500 sound too optimistic to me, considering (a) how close it is in many respects to that Forte SE, and (b) the price of boards you might see as the competition. I don't think they're chasing Casio... they never have, and this is way over-spec'd for that, with 2 GB of sample memory and 32 fx units. I'd say $1500 is bare minimum, and could easily be $2k. It's not impossible it could be higher that that, too. In some respects it is arguably a competitor to a Nord HP model (starts at $3k) and the $2500 Grandstage. But if we're starting a pool, I'll go with $1,895.
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#2874025 - 08/20/17 10:58 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
johnchop Offline
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I never used anywhere near what the PC3 is capable of. There's that geeky part of me that wants the satisfaction of knowing I could do all kinds of interesting things with a board, but my (extremely limited) gigging reality doesn't demand anywhere near that level of sophistication.

If it's got better-tasting bread and the butter, and feels reasonably good, I'm sold, given that I can leverage the sound investment I already know and enjoy.

Very eager to play this!
-John

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#2874028 - 08/20/17 11:15 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
johnchop Offline
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Also...
Two more notes:

- Doesn't look like there's aftertouch? Not a deal-breaker for me, as aftertouch on a weighted action just feels weird to me.

- I keep wondering what the advantage of FlashPlay really is, beyond allowing Kurzweil to add a lot of sample ROM relatively inexpensively. I mean, that's great, but I sort of want more flexibility akin to Nord's sample-loading approach. Maybe that's down the road.
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#2874048 - 08/20/17 01:05 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
burningbusch Offline
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Originally Posted By: johnchop


- I keep wondering what the advantage of FlashPlay really is, beyond allowing Kurzweil to add a lot of sample ROM relatively inexpensively. I mean, that's great, but I sort of want more flexibility akin to Nord's sample-loading approach. Maybe that's down the road.


Flashplay is user flash sample area (2gb) where you can load your own samples or third party libraries. You can convert software sample libraries using products like Translator. It is not limited to a single velocity layer like Nord. You can create sophisticated instruments with it. I'll be looking at providing a version of my stuff for it. Maybe a slightly scaled down version of what I have for the Forte.

Busch.

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#2874049 - 08/20/17 01:13 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: burningbusch]
The Piano Man Offline
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Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Originally Posted By: johnchop


- I keep wondering what the advantage of FlashPlay really is, beyond allowing Kurzweil to add a lot of sample ROM relatively inexpensively. I mean, that's great, but I sort of want more flexibility akin to Nord's sample-loading approach. Maybe that's down the road.


Flashplay is user flash sample area (2gb) where you can load your own samples or third party libraries. You can convert software sample libraries using products like Translator. It is not limited to a single velocity layer like Nord. You can create sophisticated instruments with it. I'll be looking at providing a version of my stuff for it. Maybe a slightly scaled down version of what I have for the Forte.

Busch.


So you can load your own samples on the SP6? How does that work? Do you load wav files and then edit through the piano itself? Or through SP6 editor software of some kind?

I do this with my Nord Stage via the Nord Sample Manager and find it so simple to work.
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#2874053 - 08/20/17 01:26 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: The Piano Man]
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Don't know the details of editing internal vs. what third-party software is necessary. I am assuming this will be a long the lines of the Forte. Yes Nord has a nice editor for putting together a basic keymap. The other players no longer provide software like this and instead rely on third parties.

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#2874055 - 08/20/17 01:30 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Originally Posted By: johnchop
Also...

- I keep wondering what the advantage of FlashPlay really is, beyond allowing Kurzweil to add a lot of sample ROM relatively inexpensively. I mean, that's great, but I sort of want more flexibility akin to Nord's sample-loading approach. Maybe that's down the road.


The Forte has 3.3 GB of non-volatile flash memory that supports .WAV, .AIF (up to 16 bit / 96kHz) and Kurzweil formats (.P3K, .KRZ, .K25, .K26). This dwarfs the Nord Stage 3's sample synth which provides only 480mb of storage for their sample synth which supports only .WAV and is single layer with rudimentary controls.

Forte also has 16gb from Kurzweil's library onboard all the time. Nord has a growing library but the Nord Stage 3 with pianos for example only hold 2gb at any one time.

Different ideas on how to accommodate their customers needs and different priorities on how much storage to include on their hardware (processing power, polyphony, split/layers, multi fx, etc.). Simplicity vs. capability and finding the balance that resonates with their users.

Personally I'd love to see them both Nord and Kurz not so reliant on Fatar for their actions. Assuming that will not change in the near future or ever... It would be nice to see a Forte and or Stage 3 rack or desktop to use with the stage piano of our choice. I suppose this is why guys go for a 61/73k synth action model and mount over a CP4 or MP7 or something with MIDI.
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#2874059 - 08/20/17 01:52 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
johnchop Offline
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Right, so I get the Forte model.

I'm just wondering if loading samples will trickle down to other FlashPlay 'boards.

Otherwise it's marketing fluff that tells us HOW they put 2 GB of samples in there, but it's not something we can take advantage of technically.

Not a negative if it doesn't.

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#2874064 - 08/20/17 02:15 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Most boards in entry level pricing are still using ROMs.
Flash RAM is found on the various Nord models, Kurzweil Forte (2gb on Forte SE and SP6 to hold Kurz library, only Forte and Forte 7 has 3.3gb for users to upload to), and Yamaha Montage which has 1.75gb for users to load into. Flash RAM can be added to the MOXF models via user installable cards (512mb or 1024mb at a time). Open to user and third party development unlike Nord where the library is closed to their proprietary format. GSi is doing the same/similar with the Gemini products. Flash RAM for storage but not open to user or third party development.

Again, same tech basically - just different philosophies on how to allow users to use it.
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#2874386 - 08/22/17 06:56 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
hipogrito Offline
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Hi,

The key of FlashPlay technology is that not only lets Kurzweil keyboards access many gigabytes of affordable sample flash memory but it does it in zero-time, meaning that you don't have to pre-load those samples (or part of them) into a volatile memory when the keyboard boots up in order to be ready to be played. With FlashPlay the samples are just there ready to be used directly from the Flash memory.

Kurzweil Forte, Forte SE, SP6, CUP 310/320 all use FlashPlay technology.

Whether a particular product allows or not user samples to be loaded is a sample memory management/availability/product-specs/project-resources/etc. issue that is independent of the technology per-se.

Regards,
Fran
Yes, I work at Kurzweil but the opinions here are just mine.

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#2874391 - 08/22/17 07:16 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
johnchop Offline
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Hi Fran.

Yes, exactly, lots of memory and ROM-like performance at significant cost savings, which is indeed a tremendous innovation in this product space. If that captures a buyer's attention as well, great!

Originally Posted By: hipogrito

Whether a particular product allows or not user samples to be loaded is a sample memory management/availability/product-specs/project-resources/etc. issue that is independent of the technology per-se.


Understood, and this addresses my question.

A future product with some flavor of "pluggable sample library" (a la Nord) would be amazing, e.g. ditching the crotales, harpsichord, and Mk I Rhodes and adding an upright. However, I appreciate the technical and support challenges of doing so, such as linking tons of objects properly and ensuring users don't **** up their keyboard.

For my purposes, sound and feature-wise, the SP6 should be able to succeed my PC3 nicely, and shave off 10 pounds of carry weight in the process. Can't wait to get my hands on one!

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#2874410 - 08/22/17 08:42 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
Stokely Offline
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Will this be using the same keybed as the older SPs? I am not a big fan of those, they feel a bit sluggish to me.

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#2874414 - 08/22/17 09:09 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Stokely]
johnchop Offline
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Nope. It'll be Medeli, not Fatar.

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#2878730 - 09/12/17 05:13 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
chrisfp99 Offline
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So how does this differ from the Artis? Seems to be cheaper but have better sounds. What's going on? Could be perfect for me.

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#2878740 - 09/12/17 06:08 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: chrisfp99]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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$1295 surprise, surprise.
Will surely be a competitive at this price point with a PX-5S or 560.
Now, how does the Medeli action compare to Casios?
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#2878742 - 09/12/17 06:19 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: chrisfp99]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: chrisfp99
So how does this differ from the Artis?

http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/forte/product_comparisons/311/
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#2878744 - 09/12/17 06:20 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
$1295 surprise, surprise.
Will surely be a competitive at this price point with a PX-5S or 560.

Yup. Very happy to have been proven wrong on this one!
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#2878747 - 09/12/17 06:46 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
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Looks very interesting! Especially given my dislike for Nord instruments... smile My main concerns would be the keyboard action and the lack of programmability. If it's programmable via software, wonderful - but I'll wait until I actually put my hands on one. The last time Kurz used a Medeli keybed was on the SP4-7, which was labeled "semi-weighted"... well, although I appreciated the sound, the portability and the UI on that one, I found it impossible to play it 'pianistically' with any degree of control. I hope this one is different.

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#2878754 - 09/12/17 07:34 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: marino]
marino Offline
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I've found that Kurzweil has several SP6 YouTube videos... they are all very short - and, in my opinion, rather uninteresting. When there is acoustic piano, it's alarmingly dull, except in one video, where we hear a piano comparable with the Forte.

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#2880149 - 09/19/17 04:18 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Stokely]
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Kurzweil tells us that their new SP6 packs a new LENA processor, patented FlashPlay technology, 128-voice polyphony and powerful DSP into a highly-portable (27.25lb/12.36kg) stage piano designed for performing artists and studio musicians. This is what they have to say about it...

Its 88 keys offer the fully-weighted, hammer-action feel of an acoustic grand with high-definition piano sounds enhanced by "K.S.R. - Kurzweil String Resonance". Its KB3 ToneReal™ Organs emulate classic Hammond, Vox and Farfisa models with real-time performance controls. The SP6 features 256 Factory Programs in 10 instrument categories, with space for 1024 User Programs. Users can easily create Split and Layered configurations with up to 4 Zones in Multi Mode.

A simple and intuitive user interface offers quick and customizable access to the SP6's 2 Gigabytes of sounds, 20 MIDI controllers, up to 4 arpeggiators and 32 simultaneous FX units. Access a broad library of programs and tailored sounds from Kurzweil's Forte, Forte SE and PC3 Series. Utilize Mac OS X, Windows PC and iOS editors (available soon) for deeper access to the SP6's powerful VAST engine. Connect to the outside world with USB and MIDI connections, a headphone output and stereo audio outputs with 32-bit DACs.

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2017/09/19/new-kurzweil-stage-piano/
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#2880186 - 09/19/17 07:44 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
sherry Offline
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Going to check this board out when it comes out. Want to see how editable VAST is using the editor (available soon). What I don't understand about Kurzweil, this board has 1024 user programs, why not load up those user programs with best of Forte/PC3 instead of leaving them blank. Frankly 256 factory programs, is nothing compared to what the other manufactures provide.

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#2880194 - 09/19/17 07:53 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sherry]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Originally Posted By: sherry
Going to check this board out when it comes out. Want to see how editable VAST is using the editor (available soon). What I don't understand about Kurzweil, this board has 1024 user programs, why not load up those user programs with best of Forte/PC3 instead of leaving them blank. Frankly 256 factory programs, is nothing compared to what the other manufactures provide.


When I worked at Kurz we received a huge number of complaints about 1000 presets in the PC3 being too much. I personally don't agree with this opinion myself - I prefer more and more!

But 256 is in the ball park for what's considered standard in a stage piano like the SP6. Casio PX-5S has 370, Yamaha CP4 has 340, etc.

The large number of user slots is quite helpful though, at least for me. One of the only gripes I have with my trusty (and much loved) PX-5S is that it only has 100 user slots and I have to blow them out to load more sounds. Many of the theater shows that I work on require 400-600 user sounds per keyboard chair. (And unlike samples, presets don't take up much memory, and don't require any software work to speak of to implement.)

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#2880220 - 09/19/17 09:15 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
johnchop Offline
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Re: people complaining about too many presets... amazing. I suppose it's that or they complain why you don't have enough of a particular instrument, say, PAN FLUTE.

While it's looking like I can't justify a Forte's cost, the SP6 could replace my aging PC3 (based on how I actually USE my PC3) and allow me to retain sounds I just can't let go of.

Super tempting.

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#2881898 - 09/27/17 10:54 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
1203 Offline
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Does anybody know if the SP6 will be released soon? Musicstore, a big german dealer, says on their homepage, that they will have it in stock at the first of October. Seems to be possible?


Edited by 1203 (09/27/17 10:56 AM)
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#2881911 - 09/27/17 12:32 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: 1203]
hipogrito Offline
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Hi,

I don't work in sales so I don't know if beginning of October will be a reality, but for sure within October/November period. It will depend distributor to distributor which one gets the first units. It's already available in Korea.

BTW, a manual update has been uploaded here:
http://kurzweil.com/product/sp6/downloads/

Regards,
Fran
Yes I work at Kurzweil but opinions here are just mine.

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#2881917 - 09/27/17 01:28 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
johnchop Offline
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Fran,

Thanks for the heads up!

Looks like the SP6 sends note off velocity, which is nice.

Key for me would be support for PC3 sound import. Not sure how the slider mappings would come across, as it looks like most of the knobs would cover the default program's slider CCs, except I think slider A (CC6)? Also, if the software will let you re-map these, cool.

-John

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#2881942 - 09/27/17 03:37 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: hipogrito
BTW, a manual update has been uploaded here:

The manual shows that, to do a split, you select your RH sound first, then you split and select your LH sound. Is there any way to keep the LH sound the same (say, when playing LH bass) and change the right hand sound on the fly? This is enormously useful for people who play LH bass, so you can keep the bass going while changing from piano to organ to strings or whatever for your RH, and it is a problem I've had ons some other boards that make it difficult or impossible, because of only permitting this to work the opposite way. Do you know if there is some way to do this on the SP6?
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#2881960 - 09/27/17 05:18 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
Mike Davis Offline
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Originally Posted By: hipogrito
Hi,

I don't work in sales so I don't know if beginning of October will be a reality, but for sure within October/November period. It will depend distributor to distributor which one gets the first units. It's already available in Korea.

BTW, a manual update has been uploaded here:
http://kurzweil.com/product/sp6/downloads/

Regards,
Fran
Yes I work at Kurzweil but opinions here are just mine.


Sweetwater has it listed as 'coming soon.'

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SP6-8

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#2881972 - 09/27/17 06:52 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Mike Davis]
ShadowMan Offline
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The Kurzweil link posted by the OP showed a keyboard at the top with faders! So for about three minutes I was really excited by the thought of a KB3 engine controlled by faders/drawbars. Then I watched the video - and that bubble burst.

Very, very disappointing to find out it's just knobs.

Oh well...

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#2881973 - 09/27/17 07:01 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ShadowMan]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ShadowMan
The Kurzweil link posted by the OP showed a keyboard at the top with faders! So for about three minutes I was really excited by the thought of a KB3 engine controlled by faders/drawbars. Then I watched the video - and that bubble burst.

Check out the Artis7 for that, with a more organ-suitable action as well. Comparably light travel weight.
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#2881976 - 09/27/17 07:46 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
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#2882026 - 09/28/17 04:48 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
rockinroller Offline
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No 9 sliders, no SP6 for me.
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#2882039 - 09/28/17 05:55 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: rockinroller]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: rockinroller
No 9 sliders, no SP6 for me.

Besides the Artis7 alternative I mentioned above, I'm also thinking that someone who cares enough to have 9-slider control probably wants to play organ from another action even if their "piano board" is the SP6... and if that other board is a controller that has 9 MIDI-assignable sliders, I wonder if you might be able to use them as drawbar controls. I believe all the previous KB3-capable Kurzweils did have the ability to do drawbar adjustments over MIDI (including even the SP4-7), so I'd be surprised if the SP6 does not, though it's not clear from the manual. Though it does say that the 4 knobs do sometimes function as "drawbars" when playing a KB3 program("When a KB3 Organ Program is selected, some of the knobs may perform Organ drawbar functions instead of the functions labeled on the front panel"), and that there is some way to address the settings of all 9 drawbars (feature list includes "KB3 Organ simulations with control of 9 drawbars"). Assuming there is the expected MIDI control, between this and the FA-07, maybe OB Dave will see enough renewed interest in his drawbar module to put it back into production!
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#2882091 - 09/28/17 08:45 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
hipogrito Offline
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Hi,

Splits and Layers: You can start by creating a quick split or layer from an existing program. It will automatically add a second zone. If it is a split, in the left hand, if it is a layer, across the whole keyboard.

BUT, when doing that, it goes to a split/layer quick editor of 3 pages, where you can actually change the programs, key ranges, volumes and pans of the 4 zones. So, if you don't like the auto split point or whatever range it gives you by default you can put it as you want to.

Of course, in Multi Edit mode you can tweak all those things and more, like the Velocity range for each zone, transposition, etc.

The UI is really easy to use as you will see the 4 programs (1 per zone) in one single page, the 4 Key ranges in one single page, etc... super-easy.



And yes, KB3 programs have drawbars in the knobs, either to change them in real time or to modify their value to save them as a new program. The SP6 is not meant to be an organ clone keyboard with the 9 drawbars and all that but, hey, it has KB3 mode, it has 32 units of FXs allowing pretty phenomenal fxs, including leslies, and you can control most of typical parameters like drawbars via the knobs and buttons.

Regards,
Fran

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#2882103 - 09/28/17 09:22 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: hipogrito
BUT, when doing that, it goes to a split/layer quick editor of 3 pages, where you can actually change the programs, key ranges, volumes and pans of the 4 zones.

This sounds like it has potential! So let's say you've got a simple 2-zone split (bass on bottom) and you want to change the right hand sound. Would you then just go to the line of the Quick Editor that shows the sound assigned to Zone 2, and select another sound, by just pressing one of the ten Category buttons on the right (each of which can have your preferred default sound assigned to it (using the "Select a Category Default Program" feature)? Can the five Favorites buttons also be used to select RH sounds this way, assuming you have assigned a Program (rather than something that is, itself, a Multi) to that button?

Other questions:

If you modify a sound and want to save your modification as a User Program, can you select which category button that program will be stored under? Or can you only save it in the same category as the original sound you were editing? Or don't User programs come up under Categories at all?

Can Multis be selected via MIDI Program Change?

Thanks!

Scott
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#2882126 - 09/28/17 11:02 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
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I'm interested in this axe for sure...every time I've used Kurzweils I've gotten positive responses from musicians. I think it's because of how they sit in the mix (piano sound), but the triple-strike, I couldn't take it... now things are different with the German G. and their new piano samples! Their other sounds are very good!
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#2882176 - 09/28/17 02:29 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Legatoboy]
Marillo Offline
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What would people think about this as a bottom board v the Roland FA-07, providing the latter is acceptable for piano playing?

I'm looking for something lighter than my current CP4, which is brilliant but I'm on the third floor of our apartment and it's just tipping into 'too heavy' territory.

I have a VR-09 on top and we're playing classic rock covers. I like the idea of the sample pads and sequencer - does the SP6 have any equivalent functionality that's as user-friendly?

(Having said that I'm clueless when it comes to sampling..how would I get say, the orchestra hits from 'Owner of a Lonely Heart' onto those pads?!)

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#2882217 - 09/28/17 05:33 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Marillo]
gg22 Offline
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I didn't find Roland FA-07 acceptable for piano playing. If you need sequencer, sample pads on a lighter piano board - you might try Roland FA-08.

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#2882241 - 09/28/17 07:27 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: gg22]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: gg22
I didn't find Roland FA-07 acceptable for piano playing. If you need sequencer, sample pads on a lighter piano board - you might try Roland FA-08.

I agree, the FA-07 is not very amenable to piano playing. The dead area in the back of the keys is pretty bad. If you want to play piano on a non-hammer action board, you can do much better than this one.

Originally Posted By: gg22
If you need sequencer, sample pads on a lighter piano board - you might try Roland FA-08.

The problem is that the FA-08 is hardly any lighter than his too-heavy CP4 (about 36.5 lbs vs 38.5).

So to answer Marillo's question, I'm pretty confident in saying that the SP6 will be better than the FA-07 as a board to play piano from. But no sample pads or sequencer.

The only lightweight 88 with sequencer and sample pad functions is the Korg Kross 2 at about 27 lbs, same as the SP6 (though about 4.5" longer).
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#2882341 - 09/29/17 09:12 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
rockinroller Offline
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There's likely less expensive, equally powerful boards than an SP6 out there, if someone was considering a 2nd board and didn't ever have need for 9 onboard sliders to emulate drawbars. For me, I have two Artis 7's, set up at a right angle to each other, with the one on my right dedicated 90% of the time to the KB3 organs that I've crafted and saved using my right hand, while the 7 in front of me does primarily APs and layers. The advantage of that over an SP6 IMO is the ability to dedicate the second 7 as an organ but also have the advantage of all those other luscious tones Kurzweil is able to produce in their boards.
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#2882391 - 09/29/17 12:52 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: rockinroller]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: rockinroller
There's likely less expensive, equally powerful boards than an SP6 out there, if someone was considering a 2nd board and didn't ever have need for 9 onboard sliders to emulate drawbars.
Whether some less expensive board is equally "powerful" is hard to define, because "powerful" is a nebulous phrase. It's a matter of what features you need, what sounds you like, what action you like, how much weight you're willing to carry, your ergonomic preferences, etc. That Kross 2 is a good case in point. It adds the sequencer and sample pads, and it has more of a display, and has full on-board editing, and it has 16 Favorite locations * 8 banks (vs. just 5 Favorites). OTOH, it has no clonewheel engine, only 2 knobs, 256 mb max of samples (vs. 2 gb), fewer simultaneous effects... what's more powerful? Hard to say.

The Artis7 is a really nice board, at about the same travel weight as the SP6, though of course an entirely different action. Artis7 has the 9 sliders, a lot more patch recall buttons, bigger screen, front panel EQ... SP6 has the bigger, updated sound set and some other newer enhancements.
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#2882481 - 09/30/17 07:50 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
rockinroller Offline
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My reference to "powerful" is relative as it might be applied to boards that would generally compete with the SP6 from the perspective of a consumer. As I have referenced previously on this site, posters' opinions of what's good, bad or ugly are subjective--rooted in whatever predisposition or expectation each of us has, and have to be taken with a a grain of salt.
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#2882482 - 09/30/17 08:02 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: rockinroller]
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Powerful compared to PX-5S/560 and CP-40.
In this regard the SP6 technology wise is quite a bargain.
Although latest technology doesn't always equate to subjectively better sounding.
The real question is how well does the SP6 action play?
Also subjective, although typically a crappy feeling action is recognized for what it is. I haven't played the SP6 yet, but I don't care for the TP-100 on the cheaper Kurzweils to begin with.
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#2882509 - 09/30/17 12:05 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
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The one aspect of my Kurz SP4-7 that I still prefer over the CP4 is the brighter AP's. It's just got the sound that I prefer. But tye CP4 is pretty close, and the 88 keys and action more than make up for that minor drawback. I haven't gigged in over a year, partly because of health issues and no desire to lug all that gear around any more. But I still play a lot at home, pretty much exclusively the CP4. If this new SP6 has as good AP's as the SP4 and the action is as good as the CP4, I might have to seriously consider a swap. And that easier portability might just be enough to get me gigging again. Can't wait for the reviews!
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#2882551 - 09/30/17 04:15 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Powerful compared to PX-5S/560 and CP-40.
In this regard the SP6 technology wise is quite a bargain.
Although latest technology doesn't always equate to subjectively better sounding.

Overall, I think the basic Kurzweils (SP-whatever, Artis) already sound better than the Casios, for most sounds. (Keeping in mind that, besides whatever stock sounds they have, you can also load other PC3 sounds into them.)

As for the CP40, I never considered it because it's 36 lbs. The MX88 is more the lightweight competitor.
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#2882555 - 09/30/17 04:39 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
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I was digging a bit today, so Medeli makes an app. 30lbs stage piano - SP4200 and a 5500. Would it be safe to assume this is the action Kurzweil has acquired for the SP6? Thommann sells Medeli but I'm having a hard time finding any reviews - it's apparently graded and owners say lighter feeling than other hammer weight actions.
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#2882562 - 09/30/17 04:55 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I was digging a bit today, so Medeli makes an app. 30lbs stage piano - SP4200 and a 5500. Would it be safe to assume this is the action Kurzweil has acquired for the SP6?

My guess (though I've seen no way to confirm it) is that the SP6 will have the same action as their KA90 (which is similar if not identical to the Medeli SP4000). That action feels kind of like the Yamaha GHS to me.
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#2882577 - 09/30/17 06:55 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
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Any reviews / reputation on how it holds up?
I think, like Casio - they may use this "hammer action" across the line.
No information on their site about action designs, or tiers between their stage, consoles, and grand consoles.

It's a shame we can't get our hands on a Kurzweil or Nord for that matter with an action like the better Kawai or Yamaha digital pianos with all the time and effort they put into DSP hardware, software, sampling, synthesis, patch programming, etc. Would be nice to see a Forte or Stage desktop or rack. But I guess that's why you get an NS3 Compact and pick a CP4 or MP7 to put under it. I wonder if they'll do a Forte 6. If not, I guess the Artis7 is as close as we'll get.
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#2882585 - 09/30/17 08:30 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Any reviews / reputation on how it holds up?

Only maybe to the extent that no news is good news. It also looks to be the same as the Alesis Coda Pro, so there should be a decent number of these actions out there, and I haven't seen reports of their going south.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
It's a shame we can't get our hands on a Kurzweil or Nord for that matter with an action like the better Kawai or Yamaha digital pianos with all the time and effort they put into DSP hardware, software, sampling, synthesis, patch programming, etc.

Yeah, it's the same story it's been... the best actions are proprietary (competitively, Kawai and Yamaha probably want to keep their actions to themselves, same with Roland and Casio), so the companies who can't cost-effectively design/manufacture their own actions are limited to what's available from the few companies who have them available. That said, I like the TP40 actions. What we're particularly shy on are quality hammer actions suitable for sub-30 lb boards. But that's true from everyone. (I still like my 10+ year old Casio best.)

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I wonder if they'll do a Forte 6. If not, I guess the Artis7 is as close as we'll get.

Looking at the Forte 7, I'd say i's a safe bet you'll never see a Forte 6. The control panel is too wide to put in anything with fewer keys. But a Forte 7 with a semi-weighted action with aftertouch (like the Fatar action of the Numa Compact 2) would be very nice.
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#2882633 - 10/01/17 08:10 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
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Maybe they'll do a Forte 7S (semi weight synth action).
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#2882678 - 10/01/17 02:18 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
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It sounds like a potentially really good reasonably-priced, lightweight gigging board. I just wish it had dedicated EQ knobs like the Artis and Artis 7 boards. frown

I can live without the sliders / drawbars since I always carry a clone to gigs that require more organ.
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#2882683 - 10/01/17 02:45 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: HSS]
Marillo Offline
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Registered: 01/04/05
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Loc: UK
Well, I got to try a Roland FA-07 at the weekend and think I'll just about get away with it for piano/elec piano.

I'm in a classic rock band and never have to do isolated soloing so in that context I think it'll be fine. Plus the OS update seems to make it more suited for live performance than other boards.

And the weight/form factor is just really, really what I need.

(I have a VR-09 for organ on top)

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#2899042 - 01/01/18 10:46 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Video I found on YouTube. Not recorded direct, and it looks like the keyboard is running in mono, though the result would be mono anyway from the camera mic.



I think it sounds pretty good considering though.
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#2899209 - 01/02/18 04:37 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Stokely]
jahfume Online   content
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Registered: 11/20/12
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Based on that video I would be very underwhelmed by that piano sound.

The other SP6 thread has a much better sounding Kraft Music demo by the man born to sell keyboards - Chris Martirano - on page 4/5

I'm waiting for the vid where Dave Weiser showe that with an expert programing skills the SP6 pianos sound better than the Forte ;-)

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#2899235 - 01/02/18 07:08 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: jahfume]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Originally Posted By: jahfume



I'm waiting for the vid where Dave Weiser showe that with an expert programing skills the SP6 pianos sound better than the Forte ;-)


Ha sorry man! The Forte samples are my favorite to work with, my custom Forte pianos are my go-tos.

But I do love the SP6 pianos and I was quite happy with the results I got, especially considering the weight and price. (Note my SP6 pianos were created on a Forte SE.)

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#2899297 - 01/03/18 05:10 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
hazerkeys Offline
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Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 273
Loc: canandaigua, ny
ordered mine new years eve to replace my PC1x (trying to lighten my load here) .... back ordered at Sweetwater .. hope I like the action , and think it will do all I need .. have my XK1c on top for organ (replaced a CX3 to lighten things there as well)
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#2899298 - 01/03/18 05:12 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
ewall08530 Offline
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Registered: 11/09/04
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Dave, are your custom sounds for the SP 6 available to purchase by someone who already bought this piano elsewhere?

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#2899435 - 01/03/18 04:18 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ewall08530]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
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Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: ewall08530
Dave, are your custom sounds for the SP 6 available to purchase by someone who already bought this piano elsewhere?


Anyone here who owns or has ordered one can have my sounds free of charge. smile

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#2899447 - 01/03/18 05:49 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
jahfume Online   content
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Registered: 11/20/12
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Dave you are a Star! like

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#2899453 - 01/03/18 06:17 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: jahfume]
Coker Offline
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Very classy, Dave
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#2899499 - 01/04/18 02:21 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
TomKittel Offline
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Posts: 492
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser


Anyone here who owns or has ordered one can have my sounds free of charge. smile


Dave, Thanks for your generous offer like

I expect delivery of my SP6 today. Needless to say that I would have ordered it from you if I would live in the US.

Tom

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#2900055 - 01/06/18 09:54 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
sleepngbear Online   content
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Any feedback yet on the action from somebody who's actually played one? Particularly compared to other fully-weighted 88-key stage pianos?
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#2900087 - 01/06/18 12:09 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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I love the action. It's not too heavy, not to light, perfect for playing piano, electric piano, synths, etc.
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#2900109 - 01/06/18 02:08 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Jim Alfredson]
sleepngbear Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
I love the action. It's not too heavy, not to light, perfect for playing piano, electric piano, synths, etc.

Good to know. The CP4 is very nice, but just a tad on the heavy side (for me).
Is it 'frictionless'? By that I mean, some manufacturers seem to make up for the absence of physical hammer weight by adding friction to the action. I had a Kawai MP6 that felt like this. Not horrible, but definitely noticeable compared to the more free-feeling CP4.
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#2900162 - 01/06/18 05:45 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Originally Posted By: sleepngbear

Is it 'frictionless'? By that I mean, some manufacturers seem to make up for the absence of physical hammer weight by adding friction to the action. I had a Kawai MP6 that felt like this. Not horrible, but definitely noticeable compared to the more free-feeling CP4.


No friction added as far as I know. (I auditioned the action and created its velocity maps back when I worked at Kurz.) It feels like a hammer action. But like the higher-end TP40L, it's a hammer action that moves quickly, very friendly for non-piano parts. Both the Medeli and TP40L are what I would call "free-feeling".

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#2900189 - 01/06/18 07:17 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
sleepngbear Online   content
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Registered: 01/21/15
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Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Originally Posted By: sleepngbear

Is it 'frictionless'? By that I mean, some manufacturers seem to make up for the absence of physical hammer weight by adding friction to the action. I had a Kawai MP6 that felt like this. Not horrible, but definitely noticeable compared to the more free-feeling CP4.


No friction added as far as I know. (I auditioned the action and created its velocity maps back when I worked at Kurz.) It feels like a hammer action. But like the higher-end TP40L, it's a hammer action that moves quickly, very friendly for non-piano parts. Both the Medeli and TP40L are what I would call "free-feeling".

Very good to hear. Thank you!
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#2900224 - 01/07/18 04:38 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
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I am rather underwhelmed by the SP6 which I received earllier this week.The plastic casing squeeked ad creeked when I unboxed it and put it on a keyboard stand. Never experienced that with other plastic casings like CP4 or PX5S. In contrast my PC3X or the Artis 7 are built like tanks.

Then I played the SP6 next to my PC3X. By direct comparison the Medeli keyboard felt heavier and somehow doughy to me. And it is way more noisy which is due to the plastic casing I guess. While still quite playable I didn’t like the keybed. Then I played the SP6 from the PC3 via Midi. It immediately became apparent to me how much better the TP40L is. No comparison. The SP6‘s sounds played from the PC3 are a real pleasure, Dave‘s soundset in particular (thanks again!). But I missed an EQ with the APs. Some sounds like the Rhodes programs have a "built-in" EQ. In contrast the APs do not have any EQ. This should be fixed in a future update.

All in all, the SP6 said to me: "what you pay is what you get." It is a compromise. A powerful sound engine on the cheap. Great sounds combined with a not so great keybed in a cheap casing. The higher price of the Forte SE is more than justified in my opinion. Kurzweil should put the SP6 engine into a desktop or rack module and offer it for under a grand. I bet that it would be a hot seller.
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#2900231 - 01/07/18 07:07 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
I am rather underwhelmed by the SP6 which I received earllier this week.The plastic casing squeeked ad creeked when I unboxed it and put it on a keyboard stand. Never experienced that with other plastic casings like CP4 or PX5S. In contrast my PC3X or the Artis 7 are built like tanks.

Then I played the SP6 next to my PC3X. By direct comparison the Medeli keyboard felt heavier and somehow doughy to me. And it is way more noisy which is due to the plastic casing I guess. White still quite playable I didn’t like the keybed. Then I played the SP6 from the PC3 via Midi. It immediately became apparent to me how much better the TP40L is. No comparison. The SP6‘s sounds played from the PC3 are a real pleasure, Dave‘s soundset in particular (thanks again!). But I missed an EQ with the APs. Some sounds like the Rhodes programs have a "built-in" EQ. In contrast the APs do not have any EQ. This should be fixed in a future update.

All in all, the SP6 said to me: "what you pay is what you get." It is a compromise. A powerful sound engine on the cheap. Great sounds combined with a not so great keybed in a cheap casing. The higher price of the Forte SE is more than justified in my opinion. Kurzweil should put the SP6 engine into a desktop or rack module and offer it for under a grand. I bet that it would be a hot seller.



Plastic, plastic ----- That is an important issue for me and why I would not buy an SP6 or a Roland___ or a Yamaha____. I would much rather pay more to get metal construction. And I do very much like my Atris 7.
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#2900237 - 01/07/18 07:33 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: teashea]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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It’s not just about price, guys. There’s a market for getting weight down that meets the needs of gigging keyboard players that carry their own stuff to/from/in and around all sorts of venues. SP6 gets 88k weighted action down to 27.25lbs. Casio PX-5S is 24lbs. CP4 which is generally picked for better feeling action already jumps up to 38.58lbs. Nord Electro 5HP has to cut size down to 73keys and swap out the TP-40L for the lame TP-100/HP to make 25.13lbs. So, at the moment the nice playing actions are heavier - although, to me, the Casio action is acceptable compromise.

I’ll try out myself like we all should and be honest about the Medeli action with y’all (thanks for sharing, Tom). Right now there are compromises for weight, we have to accept that. But maybe in the not too distant future the developers will start to experiment with materials other than plastic and aluminum.
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#2900242 - 01/07/18 08:20 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11448
Yes, the best actions aren't in the lightest boards. But I used to say that, for playing piano, even the worst hammer actions were better than the best non-hammer actions, and I no longer feel that way. As I've mentioned, I like the action in my Artis7 (with lighter springs), and in fact, I've come to like it more than my PX5S, which itself is far from the worst hammer action board. (Though I still prefer my old Casio PX500L over either!)
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#2900243 - 01/07/18 08:21 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Yes, the best actions aren't in the lightest boards. But I used to say that, for playing piano, even the worst hammer actions were better than the best non-hammer actions, and I no longer feel that way. As I've mentioned, I like the action in my Artis7 (with lighter springs), and in fact, I've come to like it more than my PX5S, which itself is far from the worst hammer action board. (Though I still prefer my old Casio PX500L over either!)


+1

I also like my Artis 7 with lighter springs a lot, including playing AP sounds with it. And the Master EQ helps a lot to make it‘s old PC3 Rhodes samples shine. I only wish it also had the 7ft AP samples of the Forte SE/SP6.

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#2900245 - 01/07/18 08:35 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
Electro Fan Offline
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Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 402
Loc: Maine
I appreciate Tom and Jim’s perspectives on the keybed of the SP6. As ElmerJFudd stated, we should all try it for ourselves, unfortunately in my situation this not really an option. No retailer in my state will carry this keyboard, and with the exception of purchasing from a retailer with a good return policy and the willingness to ship it back, I will need to use feedback from places like KC to inform my decision making.

Many of mentioned the plastic vs metal construction issue. For me, the low weight is a priority, so I am willing to settle for the plastic chassis. When you take a 40lb board and carry it in a 20lb + hard shell case, the weight going up and down stairs or in and out of long load ins, becomes a challenge. I have gigged for last few years with my plastic Px-5s and have never had any issues related construction materials.
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#2900250 - 01/07/18 09:03 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Electro Fan]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Originally Posted By: Electro Fan
I appreciate Tom and Jim’s perspectives on the keybed of the SP6. As ElmerJFudd stated, we should all try it for ourselves, unfortunately in my situation this not really an option. No retailer in my state will carry this keyboard, and with the exception of purchasing from a retailer with a good return policy and the willingness to ship it back, I will need to use feedback from places like KC to inform my decision making.

Many of mentioned the plastic vs metal construction issue. For me, the low weight is a priority, so I am willing to settle for the plastic chassis. When you take a 40lb board and carry it in a 20lb + hard shell case, the weight going up and down stairs or in and out of long load ins, becomes a challenge. I have gigged for last few years with my plastic Px-5s and have never had any issues related construction materials.




The disappearing shops and the lack of choices on showroom floors is a frustrating part of our times. I wonder if there’s a business opportunity for someone to open try-before-you-buy locations with well represented showrooms and charge a cover at the door? I know I’d gladly pay $10 to try out keys at a players’ hangout over ordering stuff just to ship back.
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#2900271 - 01/07/18 10:43 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
ewall08530 Offline
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Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 676
Shortly after my post Dave replied and provided me with his custom sounds for the SP6
Thanks Dave Weiser!!

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#2900283 - 01/07/18 12:21 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
sleepngbear Online   content
Gold Member

Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 554
Loc: RI
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
It’s not just about price, guys. There’s a market for getting weight down that meets the needs of gigging keyboard players that carry their own stuff to/from/in and around all sorts of venues. SP6 gets 88k weighted action down to 27.25lbs. Casio PX-5S is 24lbs. CP4 which is generally picked for better feeling action already jumps up to 38.58lbs. Nord Electro 5HP has to cut size down to 73keys and swap out the TP-40L for the lame TP-100/HP to make 25.13lbs. So, at the moment the nice playing actions are heavier - although, to me, the Casio action is acceptable compromise.

Very true -- it's all about what different players are willing to compromise.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
But maybe in the not too distant future the developers will start to experiment with materials other than plastic and aluminum.

Carbon fiber! That wouldn't add too much to the price, would it? laugh
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#2900308 - 01/07/18 01:40 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Ha ha. Carbon fiber. smile exactly.
What some strong light weight materials can do for an action and build quality of the case would be astounding. I’m sure if it!

Kawai thinks so too, albeit on some very expensive instruments!
http://www.kawaius.com/technology/carbon_fiber-technology.html



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#2900534 - 01/08/18 10:16 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 492
Talking about a SP6 or Forte sound module... it seems that Dexibell (formerly Roland) listened. Look here (english subtitles):

https://youtu.be/pCf-A0K3XM8

No longer is Nord the only company to offer free downloadable piano libraries and more.
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#2900607 - 01/08/18 01:14 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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What’s the lightest TP-40 stage piano they have in the lineup?
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#2900620 - 01/08/18 01:43 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
What’s the lightest TP-40 stage piano they have in the lineup?

I think it's the S7 at 38.6 lbs...?
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#2900691 - 01/08/18 05:11 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Ok so, $1799 for a TP-40 and the Dexibel sound engine in a 38.6lbs package.
Priced the same as the MP7SE at 46lbs.
But the Yamaha CP4 is $1999.99 at 38.5lbs.

That’s a rough neighborhood to be in right now.
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#2900695 - 01/08/18 05:51 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
sherry Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 139
This is going to sound really shallow, but I'm really having a hard time coming to grips with the design of the SP6. I want to like this board in the worst way, and I may end up picking one up, but damn, what the hell were they thinking in the design? It's 6 inches in height. It looks two ping-pong paddles on the back of this board. I thought the design of the PC3, PC3K all looked professional but the SP6 -- Ummm, we'll see. And don't get me started on a case for this thing. I really like the weight of the SP6 and this old geezer might just have to put up with the funky-azz design.


Edited by sherry (01/08/18 05:52 PM)

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#2900699 - 01/08/18 06:28 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sherry]
jpkeys Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 20
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: sherry
And don't get me started on a case for this thing.

The Gator GKB-88 SLIM gig bag or GK-88 SLIM case should fit it perfectly. At least that's what I'm hoping. Have the case, waiting for the SP6.

SP6: 52.5" x 15" x 5.75"
GKB-88 SLIM: 53" x 15" x 6"
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#2900701 - 01/08/18 06:40 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: jpkeys]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Is it really that odd shaped? idk

Casio PX-560: 52” 11.5” 5.8”

Yamaha CP4: 52.44” 13.86” 6.34”
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#2900703 - 01/08/18 06:46 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sherry]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1248
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: sherry
This is going to sound really shallow, but I'm really having a hard time coming to grips with the design of the SP6. I want to like this board in the worst way, and I may end up picking one up, but damn, what the hell were they thinking in the design? It's 6 inches in height. It looks two ping-pong paddles on the back of this board. I thought the design of the PC3, PC3K all looked professional but the SP6 -- Ummm, we'll see. And don't get me started on a case for this thing. I really like the weight of the SP6 and this old geezer might just have to put up with the funky-azz design.


When I heard that the SP6 had a plastic enclosure I already had my skeptic hat on when I came by R&D to audition the prototype. I scoffed at what you rightly describe as the two paddle thingies on the rear panel.

And then I played it and loved it. And then I picked the sucker up and my head popped off. In a good way. smile That narrow bit in the middle is meant for gripping the thing and they totally nailed it.

I do wish it were a tiny bit less tall. I believe the height is needed to accommodate the action's hammer mechanism. For me a little more height was a fair price to pay for the triple win of cost/feel/weight.

Regarding the TP40L comparisons:
Comparing the Medeli action to the TP40L is going to be tough - it's an asymmetrical comparison. The TP40L is literally my favorite action of all time. Not only is the TP40L a lot more expensive and moderately heavier, it also requires metal mounting brackets and a whole different approach to enclosure design.

It's like comparing a new Kia automobile to a BMW 5 series. Of course the BMW is going to feel much nicer. wink That doesn't mean that the Kia isn't a great value.

A more appropriate comparison would be the Fatar TP100 (used in Artis88, ForteSE and Nord HP models). The TP100 is still heavier and more expensive, but at least it's in a closer ballpark. In my opinion the Medeli spanks the TP100, kills it, and is less noisy.

Others might have differing opinions, as some of this stuff can be subjective. Just thought it might be helpful to get a little context from a keyboard dork who's spent a million hours auditioning and evaluating actions.


Edited by Dave Weiser (01/08/18 06:48 PM)

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#2900771 - 01/09/18 03:56 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
eclipse69 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/17
Posts: 11
Loc: East Europe, Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
I am rather underwhelmed by the SP6 which I received earllier this week.The plastic casing squeeked ad creeked when I unboxed it and put it on a keyboard stand. Never experienced that with other plastic casings like CP4 or PX5S. In contrast my PC3X or the Artis 7 are built like tanks.

Then I played the SP6 next to my PC3X. By direct comparison the Medeli keyboard felt heavier and somehow doughy to me. And it is way more noisy which is due to the plastic casing I guess. While still quite playable I didn’t like the keybed. Then I played the SP6 from the PC3 via Midi. It immediately became apparent to me how much better the TP40L is. No comparison. The SP6‘s sounds played from the PC3 are a real pleasure, Dave‘s soundset in particular (thanks again!). But I missed an EQ with the APs. Some sounds like the Rhodes programs have a "built-in" EQ. In contrast the APs do not have any EQ. This should be fixed in a future update.

All in all, the SP6 said to me: "what you pay is what you get." It is a compromise. A powerful sound engine on the cheap. Great sounds combined with a not so great keybed in a cheap casing. The higher price of the Forte SE is more than justified in my opinion. Kurzweil should put the SP6 engine into a desktop or rack module and offer it for under a grand. I bet that it would be a hot seller.


Very interesting comment, I think the same, what is your opinion about PC3LE?
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#2900772 - 01/09/18 04:02 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
Electro Fan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 402
Loc: Maine
Dave,

Thanks for your perspectives on both the design decisions and keybed comparisons. I know that as I am on the verge of adding the SP6 to my rig, it is helpful for me to keep in mind that if I am looking at keeping the weight low, I will sacrifice something in regard to the keybed used.

BTW, I just found that Dave posted a couple of short demos of the SP6 piano and rhodes sounds. Great playing Dave and more videos are most welcomed.

Bill
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Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name.

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#2900786 - 01/09/18 05:22 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Electro Fan]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 492
Dave, could you comment on the missing EQ for AP sounds? Any chance for a future OS update where EQ will be implemented to AP Sounds in a similar way as to Rhodes sounds? Any reason why EQ was omitted from AP sounds?

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#2900801 - 01/09/18 06:41 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
Talking about a SP6 or Forte sound module... it seems that Dexibell (formerly Roland) listened. Look here (english subtitles):

https://youtu.be/pCf-A0K3XM8

No longer is Nord the only company to offer free downloadable piano libraries and more.


I am a big fan of Dexibell. They have taken a somewhat different approach to their instruments. All of them use the same basic engine - a quad core processor that can handle 320 oscillators and unlimited polyphony. The build quality is excellent and the sounds are quite fine. I think that they have the best piano sounds of anything I have heard. The controls are well designed.
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Thomas Shea
Nebraska

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#2900822 - 01/09/18 08:05 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1248
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
Dave, could you comment on the missing EQ for AP sounds? Any chance for a future OS update where EQ will be implemented to AP Sounds in a similar way as to Rhodes sounds? Any reason why EQ was omitted from AP sounds?


I just took a look... The EQ parameters are actually in each piano program, they're just not hooked up to the knobs by default. Personally I would like them on the top row of knobs by default.

The good news is that it's very easy to assign to the knobs once, and then you have them forever. Hit Edit. You'll see a list of 4 parameters that correspond to the top 4 knobs. Select a parameter and then scroll until you see EQ parameters for Bass, Mid, Mid Freq and Treble. The list you scroll through is not long. Takes literally 30 seconds per program, literally the opposite of deep editing.

I have asked my buddies at Kurz if they might possibly be able to add this in an OS update. But for now shouldn't be a big deal as it's so easy to hook up.

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#2900824 - 01/09/18 08:19 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5632
Loc: USA, greater NY area
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Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2900912 - 01/09/18 01:50 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
guzman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 81
Loc: Seattle
This is why I placed my SP6 order from Dave Weiser. What a stand up dude. Best support in the business.


Edited by guzman (01/09/18 01:51 PM)
Edit Reason: Typo

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#2900984 - 01/09/18 06:16 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
jahfume Online   content
Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 23
Loc: Oxon

So Tom, Have you warmed at all towards the Medeli keybed?

If the keys are making the chassis sound - this can be alleviated by sticking some dampening foam to the (inside)flat areas.Also the felt under the keys could be swapped for a thicker type? And while you are in there - tighten up all them screws. laugh

Send the bill to Kurzweil R n D.

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#2900996 - 01/09/18 07:28 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: jahfume]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 492
Originally Posted By: jahfume

So Tom, Have you warmed at all towards the Medeli keybed?

If the keys are making the chassis sound - this can be alleviated by sticking some dampening foam to the (inside)flat areas.Also the felt under the keys could be swapped for a thicker type? And while you are in there - tighten up all them screws. laugh

Send the bill to Kurzweil R n D.


No warning. The Medeli still serves it‘s purpose. Keybeds are very subjective. Maybe my expectations were to high. All I would suggest is try before you buy.
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Yamaha N2, Kurzweil PC3, Artis 7, Uhl X3-1, Roland VR09, Roland SE02, Nord A1R, MotionSound KP500S, RCF TT08

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#2901016 - 01/09/18 10:22 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
niacin Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 1288
Loc: down under
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I was digging a bit today, so Medeli makes an app. 30lbs stage piano - SP4200 and a 5500. Would it be safe to assume this is the action Kurzweil has acquired for the SP6?

My guess (though I've seen no way to confirm it) is that the SP6 will have the same action as their KA90 (which is similar if not identical to the Medeli SP4000). That action feels kind of like the Yamaha GHS to me.


I tried a KA90 the other day and it reminded me most of Studiologic's VMK series. You definitely feel some sort of hammer/weights mechanism under the keys. But the KA90 was way looser and noisier than the VMK.

I bought a Yamaha MX88, but I'd pretty much been sold on that prior to playing it. I was looking for a lightweight (under 15kg) 88-note board and having compared and compared Roland, Kawai, Casio and the Yamahas I've come to the conclusion that I really prefer the midrange sound of the pianos in the Yamahas.

I agree with Dave that the Medeli action is way better than the TP100 in the Nord HP models, by a huge margin. I'm not going to suggest that the Kurz Medeli action is any better or worse than the Yamaha GHS in the MX88, but they are quite different. LH walking bass was more comfortable on the Yamaha, and there was nowhere near as much mechanical noise going on under the keys. Neither are premium actions. Definitely try before you buy.
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Hammond SK2, HX3 (for blues gigs), Korg Kronos 73, Line6 L3T, Yamaha DBR-10

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#2901038 - 01/10/18 04:39 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: niacin]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3637
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
snax very interesting Niacin in regard to the MX88 vs SP6 keybed ... I was looking to the SP6 as possibly having a better action than my MX88....hopefully someone will have one on a music store floor somewhere close by for me to check out.


Edited by Legatoboy (01/10/18 04:40 AM)
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