Samson SM10

[dongna]

Can any users of this mixer (SpaceNorman?) please confirm for me that the MON output on the rear is a stereo output? If yes, can this output be routed to two separate powered speakers by use of a Y cable or some other means?

[Tobias Åslund]

Have you read the manual..? It says that the front jack is mono and that the rear output is stereo, so then yes, a Y-cable would work.

[HAMEGZ]

I just purchased and installed one in my rack. Yes the monitor jack on the back is stereo. I am using it with a mono plug to my K10 and it seems to sum the individual sends fine.

 

BTW its a fairly clean mixer with ample fain.

[KeyMoe]

I recently purchased one as well. About a half dozen gigs so far. Agree it is fairly clean and flexible....

[SpaceNorman]

I'll be 100% honest - and state that I'm not absolutely positive that the rear monitor jack is truly a "stereo" send. I know that the manual says it's a stereo send - BUT, if I recall correctly, when I first wired mine up - I tried to confirm that it's truly stereo by using the balance knob to pan the signal between left and right channels - and found that the monitor output did not respond to movement. I also tried calling up a patch that has lots of "stereo movement" in it - and recall feeling that the "stereo movement" of the patch did NOT translate as well through the rear monitor send (which was wired with a 'Y' cable to two seperate powered speaker inputs).

 

I have no doubt that it uses a TRS jack (which can be split using a 'Y' cable to send it to seperate amp channels/powered speaker inputs). I suspect that it is essentially hardwired internally as a "dual mono" send (with equal amounts of left and right channel being sent to each channel. Not being an expert on what must be in place in order to constitute a "true" stereo setup ... I'll simply say that I'm a little skeptical.

 

I will say however that if it's summed to mono or simply a "dual mono" stereo send - the output of the rear monitor jack is clean and does not have the same crappy sound you get when playing a stereo patch played out a single "L/Mono" output of a keyboard. Regardless of what it is "technically" ... I've been very satisfied with how it sounds in the FOH.

 

I don't know if this helps or if I've just muddied the waters for you.

[Al Coda]

I'll be 100% honest - and state that I'm not absolutely positive that the rear monitor jack is truly a "stereo" send. I know that the manual says it's a stereo send - BUT, if I recall correctly, when I first wired mine up - I tried to confirm that it's truly stereo by using the balance knob to pan the signal between left and right channels - and found that the monitor output did not respond to movement. I also tried calling up a patch that has lots of "stereo movement" in it - and recall feeling that the "stereo movement" of the patch did NOT translate as well through the rear monitor send (which was wired with a 'Y' cable to two seperate powered speaker inputs).

 

I have no doubt that it uses a TRS jack (which can be split using a 'Y' cable to send it to seperate amp channels/powered speaker inputs). I suspect that it is essentially hardwired internally as a "dual mono" send (with equal amounts of left and right channel being sent to each channel. Not being an expert on what must be in place in order to constitute a "true" stereo setup ... I'll simply say that I'm a little skeptical.

 

I will say however that if it's summed to mono or simply a "dual mono" stereo send - the output of the rear monitor jack is clean and does not have the same crappy sound you get when playing a stereo patch played out a single "L/Mono" output of a keyboard. Regardless of what it is "technically" ... I've been very satisfied with how it sounds in the FOH.

 

I don't know if this helps or if I've just muddied the waters for you.

 

2 points hard to understand when reading the manual:

 

1.)

MIX B,- what´s the outputs for MIX B,- headphones only ?

2.)

front panel MON out is a "impedance balanced" mono output.

 

Every BALANCED input and output on this mixer is described as "TRS" or "XLR".

The front panel MON out is not,- so I assume it´s a mono TS connection which matches guitar/bass amp level inputs (impedance balanced).

The connection diagram in the manual is possibly wrong because they connected to Hartke combo-amp icon to the rear panel MON output icon.

 

To me,- it´s logical because typically FX (post fade) and MON (pre-fade) send-busses from mixer input-channels are mono as is the FX send output described in the specs of SM10 (FX post fade out 1/4" unbalanced).

 

Now, because balanced 1/4" TRS main outs just only duplicate XLR balanced stereo outputs (MAIN Mix),- I assume the rear panel MON output jack is unbalanced, but TRS, can be used mono (line level -10dB) w/ TS plug plucked in and stereo unbalanced (line -10dB) w/ TRS-Y-cable plucked in, but not being affected by the PAN/ Balance controls of the input channels (which is a bit weird if it´s really stereo).

 

Can also be it´s "pseudo" stereo = double mono unbalanced,- because the MON send bus is mono/unbalanced.

It all depends on a schematic diagram to see how it´s realized.

 

I wonder if it becomes stereo for the channels being assigned to MIX-B (and eventually would respond to PAN/ Balance movements in the channels assigned to MIX-B then).

 

Are you able to test the MIX-B buss output configuration ?

 

According to the manual, MIX-B is only assignable to the meters and headphones out and that´s not what a MIX-B (p.ex. in Mackie mixers) really is.

It could be, there´s something else, not being described in the manual, usable as MIX-B output and in addition to the meter/headphones routing of MIX-B.

 

Maybe I´m wrong, but it might be worth to try.

 

A.C.

[HAMEGZ]

A response from Sweetwater Tech Support concerning the MIX B function

 

 

 

Regarding the Mix B function of the SM10 mixer:

 

This is used to set up a different output bus for different channels. When depressed, that signal won't be passed out of the master output unless the "Source" knob on the master channel is set to Mix B.

 

So, say you have two different keyboards, but want to use one for a certain song and then switch to the second keyboard for the next song. In this way, you could set one keyboard to Mix B and when it comes time to use it, just change the source knob to Mix B and you're in business.

 

 

Does anyone understand what he said?

Maybe I am missing something here, but I don't have a dedicated output labeled MIXB.

 

AFA the 2 keyboard thing, IF they are both plugged into the SM10, unless they are MIDI-ed together and you want to mute one in his scenario, then maybe the mixb function.

[HAMEGZ]

I think I just figured it out.MixB is a PFL solo button that outputs to the headphone out (if the HP source switch is set to mixb)

And the Sweetwater guy replied back confirming that...

[Al Coda]

I think I just figured it out.MixB is a PFL solo button that outputs to the headphone out (if the HP source switch is set to mixb)

And the Sweetwater guy replied back confirming that...

 

Ha, ha, ha,- thx for the info !!!

Like you, I expected a MIX B to be routed to a different output.

Now is a PFL SOLO button routed only to the phones,- well.

 

Otherwise one of the most weird tech support answers I´ve ever read.

When I don´t want to hear/play a keyboard, I simply don´t play it and don´t mute on a rack mixers front panel.

Who knows where the small rack is,- maybe on the floor while playing standing position or somewhere in the back.

It might be easier to pull a MIDI cable, but I´m sure there are other options in keyboards interupting the MIDI stream.

 

OTOH, a PFL solo to phones bus is welcome for some programming/adjustments while not disturbing other´s work during rehearsals,- but I expected the SM10 comes w/ this in addition, assigning that functionality by the selector in master section, alternately routing MIX B to MIX B outs or phones while MIX B in input channels just only decides for MIX B or MAIN outs in general.

 

Now I wonder why (and like SpaceNorman recognized) the stereo MON outs on the rear panel seem to sound double mono and don´t respond to PAN/Balance pot movements.

If it says "stereo" it should be stereo, maybe hardwired and without PAN functionality.

For a mono line out, only 1 output jack would have been enough,- isn´t it ?

 

A.C.

[dongna]

I have sent email to Samson tech support requesting a block diagram... will let everyone know when they respond.

[Al Coda]

I have sent email to Samson tech support requesting a block diagram... will let everyone know when they respond.

 

Excellent idea !

Thank you.

 

 

A.C.

[Throbert]

Is block going to give you enough schematic view to actually see it.

[gg22]

This is old thread but was anybody able to figure out if the back monitor jack on the SM10 outputs a real stereo signal or just double mono? I'm currently considering this mixer but need stereo monitor output.

[B. J. Love]

I own one. The rear 1/4" is a TRS unbalanced stereo output. Use a standard insert cable to split the L/R signals. The front panel 1/4" is TRS balanced summed mono send with it's own output level control. The monitor sends can also be monitored in stereo thru the switchable headphone out. It's a remarkably flexible mixer for the dough.

[gg22]

Great, thanks B.J.!

[B. J. Love]

One caveat: the monitor send is pre-fade and is unaffected by the balance/pan control. Left is left, right is right.

[Throbert]

Thing is, if you want to soft pan to FOH you have to use the inputs in mono so according to how I understand it you'll only get left at the rear mon jack. Still a good mixer,would need another solution for mon feed.

[clpete]

You could use the EFX out as a monitor send as it is stereo and post-fader.

 

 

[clpete]

I purchased one of these mixers back in September. I used it for 2 or 3 gigs before I spent the time to check out a hiss that I was getting. Turns out the main out left channel had a loud hiss and the right had a hum. Sweetwater sent me a new unit allowing me to keep the bad one until I got it as I had gigs and the mono/monitor output was clean.

 

Thats the first thing Ive bought from Sweetwater. Their customer service made a possible frustrating experience painless.

 

 

[Throbert]

You could use the EFX out as a monitor send as it is stereo and post-fader.

 

Oh Cool, sounds encouraging, thanks

[bluzeyone]

I don't know that mixer, but do know the incorrect labeling of "true stereo" vs "dual mono" from manufacturers because of my Yammy mixer. If I want true stereo I need to split the amp (monitor & mains) and use the monitor as the true stereo counterpart of the mains. .

[bluzeyone]

Otherwise what it calls stereo is really just a daisy chain.

I suppose they figure they can pull that illusion off with guitar players, vocalists, bass players ect., but as keyboardists, we're on to their sh!t.

[CEB]

I have used this mixer for a while and starting to appreciate it's flexibility. It has simplified and sped up my setup time again. Instead of setting up my old IEM system I am now taking monitor feed into channel 1 and shut off the main bus and only sending it to the monitor bus. All the keyboard channel I send to both monitor and main busses at same levels. What makes it work is the rotary switch that can assign the headphone jack to either Main-Monitor-MixB-EFX. I just plug the IEM into the Headphone jack which is set to monitor. This is a very versatile 1U space mixer.

[Mats Nermark]

When muting a channel is the the signal totally muted or does it go to the monitor send which is prefader?

 

Thanks!

 

Mats N

[humannoyed]

When muting a channel is the the signal totally muted or does it go to the monitor send which is prefader?

 

Thanks!

 

Mats N

Yes, signal passes through when channel is muted.

 

This is indeed a nice mixer.

[MorayM]

I have nothing to add but the fact that it is indeed a nice mixer and thanks for digging out the old thread on the subject instead of starting a new one!

[CEB]

I own one. The rear 1/4" is a TRS unbalanced stereo output. Use a standard insert cable to split the L/R signals. The front panel 1/4" is TRS balanced summed mono send with it's own output level control. The monitor sends can also be monitored in stereo thru the switchable headphone out. It's a remarkably flexible mixer for the dough.

 

Yes. I did a cursory read of the manual and mistakenly thought the rear monitor out jack was balanced TRS. It is not. IF you need a balanced monitor send the jack on the front is balanced. I had to use a short patch cable to send the monitor send from Monitor Out jack to a Redco Pass Thru jack then the input on the back of my Shure PSM Transmitter that is mounted in the same rack that I run in Mix mode. Using the Monitor out jack on the back caused some bad phase cancellation stuff.

[mobi]

When muting a channel is the the signal totally muted or does it go to the monitor send which is prefader?

 

Thanks!

 

Mats N

 

 

Sorry for reviving this old but useful thread,

 

But I wonder also if a muted channel can be routed thru the FX send ( same as the mon send)

 

TIA

[humannoyed]

Well, I see that I am the one who answered Mats N's question, but I am not where I can answer yours. Sorry

[Jas Davis]

Hi, I have one of these mixers and need to use Ch1 as a line input as all other inputs are spoken for. However it appears that the 1/4" jacks on Ch1 (and Ch2) feed the R output only, consistent with the labels but does anyone know if this line input can be made to output across L & R outs instead of R only? The labels on the back of the unit show the XLR as L/MONO and jack as R, what would be the use of a line input that fed one output channel only? I have contacted support and await their response.