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#2672307 - 03/13/15 08:14 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Joe Muscara]
DavTomSun Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/15
Posts: 8
This is the best, most informative forum thread I have ever followed. You guys are awesome. Thanks for all the practical tips and advice.

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KC Island
#2672308 - 03/13/15 08:16 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Al Coda]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5202
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: Al Coda

Yes, but was it really that kind of scenario we get when running keyboards w/ their balanced or unbalanced outputs into a (small) line-mixer offering balanced inputs, the mixerŽs balanced outputs running into the Behringer 1200D Pro sub, the line-thrus of the sub running into the CPS SSv3?

Al,

I've needed the DI in two scenarios:

1) multiple boards into Ashly 308, into DI, into snake head, and
2) Kronos outs into DI, into snake head.

In both these situations I've been asked by FOH to engage the add'l pad on the DI.

Originally Posted By: Al Coda

I also doubt youŽd pickup hum or any HF on the short cable run from a unbalanced-line-out keyboard into a (small) line-mixer and if, the balanced outputs of the line mixer will cancel it out.
For sure you wonŽt pick up any hum or HF when running balanced from a keyboard into your submixer already.


It's always been my understanding (basic electronics in high school and only two years of EE major) that in practice, ground loops are caused by connected devices pulling power from different circuits. So I always power my own rig off the same Furman...no hum within my own rig.

But upon connecting to FOH, it's quite possible (likely) that their on a different circuit than stage. That's where the hum comes from - 60 cycle, not cable induction. The old school fix was of course those $0.50 3-prong to 2-prong - not safe. Thus transformer isolation via DI ground lift...or one of those Ebtech "hum eliminator" devices (same thing).

Those have always been my two reasons I've needed the Radial, even when using what I think is decent quality kit upstream (pro level boards, the Ashly mixer...):

1) attenuate signal because FOH can't / won't / doesn't know how to swallow line level signals without gagging, and

2) kill ground lifts caused by my rig running on a different circuit than FOH

If there's a better real-world fix I haven't thought of, I'm always open to a better way.
_________________________
"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."

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#2672324 - 03/13/15 08:34 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jetrocker]
Aspen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 452
Loc: So Cal
Quote:
Thanks for the replies on this. Hit me later this of course is the best setup for seperation. One more question then....since the B1200 doesn't have a mono (L+R) thru signal-out jack, does that mean I have to send both the left and right thru outs to FOH? I much rather have a single, full range mono feed to FOH, not to mention saving a channel on the main board. How do I do this? Thanks again. Mark


Well, since you are not using the SS v.3 "Sub" output, I remind you; this is a line level full range mono (L+R) feed that can be used for the FOH send (albeit not a "balanced" send, which may not be required depending on the length of the cable).

I have been following this great discuss here about FOH sends and such, and I must agree w/ AC on "signal chain processing"; specifically, that padding down any signal at the source is a bad idea. Not just because it degrades your Signal/Noise ratio, and it certainly does, but the sad fact is no matter how much you spend, any (passive) DI box transformer (that "transforms" your signal) brings along it's audio baggage.

Designing circuits you learn quickly that "less is more", and good transformers (when required) are rated by mostly by what the "don't" change in signal quality as they do their transforming "math". You also learn; that every resistor has some inductance and/or capacitance, that every capacitor has some resistance or inductance, and that every inductor (xfmr/coil) has some resistance AND capacitance. In other words, they CHANGE the sound!

Every DI box usually will have a unity gain (not level changing) xfrm that does the "balancing" math, and a balanced signal has advantages for mics and instruments, but not necessarily for the hotter line level signals. These DI boxes may also have a pad (a resister), or a roll off filter (a capacitor)...so some of these boxes all have 3; a mix of resistance, inductance and capacitance...any/all of which can ONLY degrade your signal level and quality...because they are PASSIVE, they really can ONLY degrade (take away) signal.

NOTE: ACTIVE preamps w/ DI features like balanced sends are a very different conversation (the B1200 for example). My old GT Brick tube pre for stage had 3 tubes and an output transformer to send "tube enhanced" signals 1,000s of feet to arrive better than they left!

Back to your original question; try sending the FOH a direct line level signal from your SS v.3 (mono) "Sub" output using a simple cable adapter; 1/4" (TRS or TS) to XLR and see how that works. You can always add a balancing DI in the chain if the line level signal seems to pick up RF or whatever (doubtful). But IMHO...you will never need to "pad" it, or "filter" it.

When it comes to signal processing, as AC reminds us here, keep levels high from the start of the chain, and low at the other end. And also, "Less is More" (no DIs if not needed). Having LESS stuff in the chain is always MORE sound at the other end.
Just my 2 cents, worth exactly what you paid for it.
_________________________
Hammond A100 w/ 2x Leslie 122, Leslie 145 w/ combo pedal, Casio P5S, SS3, Groove Tubes SFX G5 cab + CPS/QSC RM4500 KB amp, 1955 Steinway 48" studio upright.

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#2672342 - 03/13/15 09:14 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jetrocker]
cphollis Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1703
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Originally Posted By: Jetrocker
Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: cphollis
[quote=Jetrocker]So, sorry if this has been addressed before but cabling question. What is the issue with running the keyboard 1/4 jacks into the left/right of the SSV3, and then just running a single 1/4 TRS from the sub out on the SSV3 into just the A input side (XLR end of the same cable) of the Behringer 1200? Do you lose anything by just using the A input?
Mark


If you send to the BD1200-D first, you get the benefit of its built-in high-pass filter. That means that the sub handles the low frequencies, and they don't get sent to the SSv3. Since the SSv3 has a modest 8" driver, it has to work extra hard on those lower frequencies.

The net result is that you definitely get more volume and less potential for distortion. It's noticeable in most gig situations, especially if you're doing bass lines, etc. A nice upgrade for $299, plus cables.

(the never ending SSv3 thread)


And the Behringer sends L&R pre-crossover to FOH.



Thanks for the replies on this. Hit me later this of course is the best setup for seperation. One more question then....since the B1200 doesn't have a mono (L+R) thru signal-out jack, does that mean I have to send both the left and right thru outs to FOH? I much rather have a single, full range mono feed to FOH, not to mention saving a channel on the main board. How do I do this? Thanks again. Mark

[/quote]

Just repeating, the SSv3 has a 1/4" full-range mono out. If you haven't put the BD1200 in the signal path, it'll have all the lows in it. A small DI box, and you're good to go -- if you're being a minimalist.

In reality, you'd want to be able to adjust stage volume independently of what you're sending to FOH (otherwise your sound guy will hate you when you turn up or down), so a small mixer is what I use.

Good ones start at around $100 or so.
_________________________
Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: Nord Stage 2, Piano 2, Electro 4D
Practice: Yam N3, Bosie 200 Klimt Model
Amps: FA 12acs, RCF TT08as, QSC Ks, SSv3
Stuff: Spider Pro, MG06, etc.

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#2672347 - 03/13/15 09:32 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: cphollis]
MathOfInsects Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2372
Loc: California
This little Mackie has done me fine, though I never throw anything through the mic pre's, so I can't vouch for them.

Main mix straight out to FOH, never touch it, stage mix through the CR Out, change it all you want.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M...CFQqFaQodMJkAwg
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#2672352 - 03/13/15 09:57 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: MathOfInsects]
Ledbetter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 183
Loc: California
I am confused. The sub out is described on this page as L+R. On March 2, Aspen described it as the same as the front speaker--just the "common" content present in BOTH L and R:

"Aspen, am I correct in assuming that the sub out is the exact same signal as is passing throught the 8" mid speaker? Thanks.[quote]

You are correct, it is L+R, or all he mono content which is equal in both channels of the stereo source"

So using it for FOH doesn't seem like a good idea unless you don't want any Left- or-Right-channel-only content.

.
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C, Nord Electro 4D, 5D and Lead 2x, Moog Voyager, Some Slim Phatties, Roland Lucinda, Hohner Piano Melodica, Spacestation V3

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#2672365 - 03/13/15 10:34 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Ledbetter]
Jetrocker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Cincinnati
Guys and Aspen

Thanks very much for the follow-ups, but I think there are two subjects being mixed together here. My question is asking, since I'm using the B1200 sub and using it to send the hi-pass signal up to the SSV3, if I have to use both the left and right thru XLR's to send my full range signal to FOH. If I use the 1/4" full range mono out on the SSV3 in this setup, the signal will not have anything in it from 100hz and below. My question is, considering this setup, if there's a way around this so I can continue to just send one full range mono signal to FOH (hopefully without too much "other" stuff like DI or mixer). Maybe the answer is no, with this setup, I have to send both left and right thrus to get full range to FOH. Just would like to clarify that in particular.

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#2672369 - 03/13/15 10:44 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jetrocker]
Ledbetter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 183
Loc: California
Jetrocker, I see your issue: with only frequencies above 100hz going into the SS3, no frequencies below that come out of the SS3 Sub Out. Maybe those lower frequencies won't be missed in the band mix?

If you need those lower frequencies to go to FOH, what mixer are you using? Can you use an AUX out to send a full range mono signal to FOH?
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C, Nord Electro 4D, 5D and Lead 2x, Moog Voyager, Some Slim Phatties, Roland Lucinda, Hohner Piano Melodica, Spacestation V3

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#2672380 - 03/13/15 11:11 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Ledbetter]
Jetrocker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Cincinnati
Thanks for follow up Led. Currently, I'm not planning on using a mixer. Plan to run my lower keyboard into the audio in's of my Kronos and then just have one set of stereo cords going back from the Kronos to the B1200. I do play some synth low end stuff in a few songs, along with left hand on the piano, so I'm thinking sending a signal without the low end to the FOH could be a sonic ugly. Thx again for reply.

I'm pretty sure this may mean that I will in fact have to use a mixer when I use the sub. But hoping for other suggestions. smile Mark

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#2672407 - 03/13/15 12:20 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jetrocker]
endlessummerkeys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/12/15
Posts: 95
Loc: Iowa USA
I believe the B1200D has a pass thru that can be used as FOH doesn't it? I will have to look again
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 88
Korg M50
Korg KINGKORG
SPACESTATION V.3
Behringer Eurolive B-1200D PRO
Iowa Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductee
www.endlesssummertheband.com


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#2672410 - 03/13/15 12:36 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: endlessummerkeys]
Jetrocker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Cincinnati
Yes, it does...A and B. I'm trying to send a single summed mono signal out from the B1200. Can't use the mono sub out from the SSV3 without losing everything below 100hz because that's filtered out in the B1200 and sent to the SSV3.

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#2672430 - 03/13/15 01:40 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jetrocker]
endlessummerkeys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/12/15
Posts: 95
Loc: Iowa USA
oh right that makes sense. Summed mono is not something that I run into in my application. I run my FOH feed from my small mixer output. I use my SS for mainly my own sound on stage and the FOH is usually just a R or a L but not both a lot of times. I haven't gotten that particular about is especially now since my SS is seeming to fill the room all by itself. the last gig I did I didn't even do a FOH and the keys were fine. I hate to say it but now that I can hear the true stereo on stage I kind of gave up on what everyone else hears. Kind of selfish isn't it. Oh well..... I play now at my age to mainly keep myself happy and that is what is important to me.
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 88
Korg M50
Korg KINGKORG
SPACESTATION V.3
Behringer Eurolive B-1200D PRO
Iowa Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductee
www.endlesssummertheband.com


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#2672483 - 03/13/15 05:16 PM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Daddyg3042]
Jetrocker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Cincinnati
Originally Posted By: Daddyg3042
Originally Posted By: AWkeys


Daddyg3042, is that Tuki cover the same as this?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SpacestatnCvr

Wish they had a pocket for the power cable, but I'll just throw that in the amp cavity.


No, not the same cover. Here's the Tuki's site:
Tuki

Little hard to see, but really nicely padded covers with tough nylon outer material. I have no interest in Tuki, really..I merely shop there. cool I have one for my EV SXA360 that provides a lot of protection, and has held up great for 3+ years now. I think they may be able to do an outer pocket as well. They're good communicators too, which is nice when doing online transactions.


Ok, I guess I'm missing it. I can't find "Spacestation" or "Aspen" in any of the listing they have on Tuki site. Is this a special order cover from them?

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#2672487 - 03/13/15 05:26 PM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Jetrocker]
Raymb1 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 310
Loc: Sterling, VA
_________________________
Casio PX5s, XWP1 and CPS SSV3

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#2672491 - 03/13/15 05:57 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: timwat]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3818
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: timwat


Those have always been my two reasons I've needed the Radial, even when using what I think is decent quality kit upstream (pro level boards, the Ashly mixer...):

1) attenuate signal because FOH can't / won't / doesn't know how to swallow line level signals without gagging, and

2) kill ground lifts caused by my rig running on a different circuit than FOH

If there's a better real-world fix I haven't thought of, I'm always open to a better way.


I see,- you need it sometimes ...
I use Furmans and an Ashly mixer too btw.,- MX508 offering transformer balanced main outputs.

"A better way" might be going digital out to FOH, maybe AES or ADAT, into a digital stagebox w/digital and analog inputs (via converters) where the "multicore" is optical MADI and the FOH console is digital too.
Sooner or later weŽll use digital mixers for our keyboards too.

In fact I already have this option, using my XITE-1 DSP and SCOPE environment as a digital mixer, dynamics & FX included and actually a RME 8-channel AD/DA connected via ADAT.
IŽll buy a Ferrofish A16mkII AD/DA next future for 16 inputs and offering individual gains per channel.
And I plan using that rig w/ SSv3 as my personal monitor once it will be available from Thomann in germany.

Analog PAs here became rare now,- even for small village fairs and festivals PA rentals provide digital consoles meanwhile.

A.C.

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#2672495 - 03/13/15 06:19 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Al Coda]
hardware Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 904
Loc: Nashville, TN.
Digital is the answer, wireless too.

But I understand as I have old school buddies that still like coiled headphone cables by Alexander Graham Bell.
_________________________
Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Omnisphere Mic

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#2672496 - 03/13/15 06:19 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: hardware]
hardware Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 904
Loc: Nashville, TN.
Al has an XITE-1 'eh.......?
Heard that's what they use on the big jobs...
_________________________
Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Omnisphere Mic

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#2672552 - 03/14/15 06:13 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: hardware]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3818
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: hardware
Al has an XITE-1 'eh.......?


Yes ... cool

Originally Posted By: hardware

Heard that's what they use on the big jobs...


IŽd wish the jobs were that big as they were mid 70s Žtil Y2K.

If they were, I already had 2 XITE-1, 1 for the home and 1 for the road,- and J.B. Solaris in addition.

A.C.

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#2672553 - 03/14/15 06:16 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: endlessummerkeys]
Jazzooo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/17/01
Posts: 502
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
I did a gig last night, and I'm really excited to tell you about it but I have to go back to sleep. It's very different situation from my gig Thursday night, but the situation and the results are so dramatic that they bear discussion.

Aspen, I tried to send you a private message but it says your mailbox is full. Suffice it to say that I would not be surprised if you receive a few orders from killer players in the Austin area based on what happened last night down here in central Mexico :-)

more later.

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#2672600 - 03/14/15 09:12 AM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Jetrocker]
Daddyg3042 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 211
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Jetrocker
Originally Posted By: Daddyg3042
Originally Posted By: AWkeys


Daddyg3042, is that Tuki cover the same as this?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SpacestatnCvr

Wish they had a pocket for the power cable, but I'll just throw that in the amp cavity.


No, not the same cover. Here's the Tuki's site:
Tuki

Little hard to see, but really nicely padded covers with tough nylon outer material. I have no interest in Tuki, really..I merely shop there. cool I have one for my EV SXA360 that provides a lot of protection, and has held up great for 3+ years now. I think they may be able to do an outer pocket as well. They're good communicators too, which is nice when doing online transactions.


Ok, I guess I'm missing it. I can't find "Spacestation" or "Aspen" in any of the listing they have on Tuki site. Is this a special order cover from them?


It was a special order for me..their first one, I think. I had to measure the SS and fill out their custom order page. It fits very well.

While it might not be on their site, they now have the measurements. Tuki was bought by Custom Amp Covers, and their website doesn't integrate the companies or products very well. On my receipt it's labeled "CENTER POINT STEREO SPACESTATION V3". I don't see any product number on the receipt, but their email address is: sales@amplifiercovers.com. My order # was #18942, if they need a reference. Make sure you tell them you want the "padded" cover, not the vinyl. I corresponded with both Glen and Cindy.

Good luck
_________________________
"May you stay...forever young."


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#2672605 - 03/14/15 10:02 AM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Daddyg3042]
16251 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 2519
I have the cover from Sweetwater. It's not padded, but it's also not vinyl. The SW site states Nylon. It's functional except you wouldn't want to put on ground since the amp is exposed and those open speaker holes.
_________________________
AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP

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#2672679 - 03/14/15 07:22 PM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: 16251]
Jazzooo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/17/01
Posts: 502
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
I hope people aren't bored with gig reports. This one is a doozy.

ok, I have barely recovered from the last three days and nights of music-making, but here goes:

This weekend, there is a Magic town Music Festival with guest artists, mostly from Austin and Dallas. Amazing blues and rock players, including Red Young on keys, Bob and Etta Britt, Theresa somebody and several other bands that came down to play.

After hearing my SK1/SpaceStation rig at the kickoff party, they all asked if I would rent them my setup for a VIP party last night ($100 a ticket) and also if I would jam. There are two OUTSTANDING keyboard players visiting, this Red cat and a guy named Jay. After an in-depth sound check in the main venue (getting ready for today), we set up an outdoor stage up on the patio of an enormous house in the hills, overlooking the city. Total pro sound and killer back line--the most impressive of each I've ever seen.

So last night, the stage had everything going through the P.A., including the trusted Roland keyboard running through a KB500. I set up my organ and my SpaceStation next to it and told them not to run it into the house. They'd heard it before but sere still a little worried it wouldn't be loud enough.

There were over 200 people there--it's a huge house--and I sat down to jam with one of the keyboard players and we totally connected. I took the Roland (pretty ghastly after playing my stuff) and he played organ. We got funky. Crystal clear, 3 D sound once again. Little by little other players joined us and soon we were tearing it up. Then some of the acts played and they either used my rig or I joined them. When I wasn't playing, I wandered around the house and even from 100 feet away, the keys were clear and present. When the Leslie hit, it was screaming!

None of the musicians could believe it wasn't in the house or the monitors at first. These bands got loud--vocalists, guitars, drums all mic'd up---but the amp kept up beautifully. I didn't even use the trifold to create a wall behind it. Didn't need to. Every keyboard player write down Aspen Pittman's and the amp's names. The backline guy grilled me Friday and Saturday about it. The other players had to sit at the Roland setup and play when I was playing organ and you could tell they were suffering a tad. smile

Today, I had to use the backline for the actual festival--it started raining at 5 am and hasn't stopped for more than one minute so far (8pm). The entire stage got flooded and in 2.5 hours they disassembled all the gear and setup an alternate stage and sound system and we started only 2 hours late. It's a drag because crowds stayed away, though we had about 200 brave souls. I played bass in a Joni Mitchell tribute and then my blues band hit the stage--I had to play a Hammond XK3C and Roland RD700. Two weeks ago, I would have enjoyed them. But tonight they both sounded like toys to me.

This amp held it's own in a situation that was the loudest I ever intend to play in my life. And it blew people away in the crowd and onstage.

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#2672686 - 03/14/15 07:47 PM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Jazzooo]
Raymb1 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 310
Loc: Sterling, VA
Great review. Keep 'em coming.
_________________________
Casio PX5s, XWP1 and CPS SSV3

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#2672710 - 03/15/15 02:03 AM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Raymb1]
Worth Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/14
Posts: 24
Hi folks this is only probably my second posting here . I just wanted to share my experience with the SSV3 . I believe I am the first uk owner of this amp . I own the korg pa1x arranger keyboard .

Music is my passion but sadly not my main job .

However I compose and arrange music for various choirs in the uk . Nothing major but it fulfils my need to create and perform from time to time . I worship at the camp hill church in Birmingham that seats sround 600 people when full .

Yesterday a group I sing with performed at church in the afternoon . It was half full so around 300 people . It's a large red brick bare wall auditorium so lots of surface for sound to bounce off .

When I first got the SSV3 after carefully setting it up in my living room I was concern about the bass response . You may know that with an arranger keyboard especially , the sound being produced needs to cover the full spectrum of sound and immediately to my ears the bass response was not what I had hoped for or expected. I did not want to have to purchase a sub and have to lug more gear and so was a little disappointed . I digress .

Yesterday was the first time I was able to play the amp at performance levels . I had the volume set at 2 o'clock on the amp width control at just under 12 o'clock and mids just past 12 o'clock and hi's turned all the way . The keyboard volume slider was set at about 1/5 of the way .

I used just the amp no mixer no sub and did not connect to the church foh .

Now please bare in mind that at church the folks have come to listen and so I do not have the background noise that you might have to compete with in a bar or club .

I started out just piano which sounded fine . A little bright at first until I dialed back the mids a little and it sounded much better . Not as great as I had hoped but definitely acceptable and with more experimenting I know I can get a better AP sound . The volume was plenty loud . It was easily the same level as the mic'd up grand piano a few feet away . Also I had positioned the amp about 7 feet away in the corner of the stage behind me by about 1ft -3ft. But it was such a pleasant surprise to hear the sound as though it was right next to me .

The amp sounded very clear and loud in the context of the church . This was the first time I was able to position the amp far enough away from me that I could get the full benefit of the blooming effect that everyone keeps talking about. And you genuinely cannot appreciate this if you're playing at home or a regular sized carpeted room .

What I especially was surprised at was the difference in the bass response when playing at performance levels and having the Amp far enough away for me to appreciate the effect of the spaciousness of the sound.

I sequenced a song on the keyboard that would be used to perform with my vocal group . I played a Rhodes type sound along with the track . The track had bass , horns strings rhythm guitar drums and a Hammond type organ . The vocals went through the front of house system. There are 8 singers in my group including myself .

For me it's all about the overall sound and like others I was not completely overjoyed by theAP piano by itself however In the mix it sounded great .

My brother is the sound engineer for the church and he was at the back of the church probably 40 feet away and he could not tell where the sound was coming from and kept looking to see what Amps were on the stage and could not see my little amp tucked away in the corner.

The Rhodes sounded blissful . I knew the organ would sound great but it was especially nice in the mix .

This was a really great endorsement of the sound this amp produces. I am very satisfied with the amp all by itself and am relieved I don't need a sub for my purposes .

Thanks for a great amp Aspen . I took a chance on buying this product direct from you and despite my initial reservations that I expressed to you privately I am very much grateful for you perseverance with this product over the years . It's an answered prayer for me .


Edited by Worth (03/15/15 02:10 AM)

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#2672726 - 03/15/15 07:15 AM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Worth]
Jazzooo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/17/01
Posts: 502
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
Worth, your review confirms my feelings--I don't think I'll need a sub with my SS3. I play mostly funky soul/jazz right now, and while it is very dynamic the loudest parts don't reach rock concert levels. But even with this last event, the blues festival, I proved to myself that it could hold its own onstage with a rocking group going through a good P.A. system. The key to that will always be sensitive players who leave space for other musicians, of course. But if every gig I played was that loud, I might not enjoy making music as much as I do.

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#2672809 - 03/15/15 02:46 PM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Jazzooo]
rickp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 244
Played an annual hotel reception event last night, took a CP4 and the SSv3 along with a GK MB210 (400 person seated size room). My only request was to be placed far away from the peanut and sesame oil-burning wok stations that nearly kept me in tears last year (I know you can't technically be "downwind" indoors, but the HVAC air stream sure made it seem that way), and I wound up being placed in the middle of the back wall in a square-ish room with 20+ foot ceilings.

With the nearest wall for SSv3 reflection over thirty feet away, I berated myself (a common practice, it seems) for poorly planning for such a placement, as I had been in a nice corner in prior years. Perhaps the peanut and sesame oil smoke wouldn't be so bad after all . . .

As I was struggling to think of something to use as a reflecting surface (car sunroof perhaps?), I remembered one of the gospel vocalists I record backing tracks for left a folding music stand (a $12 cheapo that collapses down to the size of a 3 cell Maglight) in my back seat. I "borrowed" a large faux-leather folding menu from the restaurant, set up the stand about a foot from the SSv3 (which was perched on the GK MB210), placed the unfolded menu, binder side out, on the stand and angled the whole stand-reflecty-shebang toward the center of the side wall. I left the backside of the side-firing speaker unimpeded (really more out of time necessity than choice).

With CP4 running in 1/4" direct, the SSv3's volume at quarter and all other settings at a half, and the MB210 brought up and EQ'ed just enough to fill out low end, sound from a USB piano recording I'd made for sound sampling/setting seemed to swirl throughout the room, nice and full at a volume level that made quiet conversation a breeze.

When I started playing, I noticed the surround-sound sensation lessened a bit as the room filled. I nudged the CP4's volume knob a fraction and it returned.

Several people commented on how nice the sound was (noticeably lacking were any compliments on the playing - only on the sound) and asked about the piano, apparently not knowing the amp's role in the whole thing. What really got my attention though was the staff supervisor commenting as I was packing up that he'd never really thought the room's in-ceiling speaker system was much good for music before this event. I told him I was not running through the room's system, and he looked at me like I was stupid for not knowing that it must have been, waving his arms overhead and saying the sound was very even and seemed like it was coming from all directions.

I decided to let it go at that (also a common practice, it seems, if it doesn't pass the two-week test ["is this something that will really matter to me two weeks from now?"]).

So - any way - the whole point of this inartfully worded post is that a cheapo-easily-stowable-fully-collapsible music stand with a 14x16 or so reflecting surface to place on it works well (if you happen to have the SSv3 sitting on a amp or sub or rack) positioned 10 to 20 inches from the SSv3 and 45-angled, leaving the back side of the speaker open to eventually reflect off a more-distant surface. That rig is nothing at all to pack in existing gear bags/containers.

As for the reflecting surface material, I'm sticking with a faux-leather menu for now . . .

_________________________
Kawai KG-2D / Yamaha CP33 S90ES P105 MX49 CP4 / Hammond SK1 / Korg R3
QSC K8s, K10s, K12s, KSubs / SSv3 / GK MB112, MB115 & MB210 w Neo410

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#2672811 - 03/15/15 03:12 PM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: rickp]
Marillo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 312
Loc: UK
Hey Worth...I'm also in the UK and really interested in his amp. Can I ask how you managed to get hold of one?!

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#2672812 - 03/15/15 03:36 PM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Marillo]
Worth Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/14
Posts: 24
I ordered directly from aspen . Paid shipping cost and import duties

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#2672985 - 03/16/15 10:45 AM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: Worth]
KingstonCrim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 117
I have basically 3 gigging situations that keep me busy, and last night I finally got to try out the SS in my third setting, the deep roots reggae band. We do tend to get a little loud at times with two guitarists, an aggressive drummer and a bass player with a full Ampeg SVT-4 PRO rack system (with both 15" and 18" cabinets) so I knew I'd have a lot to keep up with. This was a venue we've played many times so I was familiar with it, but I'm so used to the sound of my stereo SRM450 speakers on each side of me that it took me some time to get accustomed to the new blend on stage... the SS created quite a change in atmosphere, the keyboards really cutting through like never before, and it allowed me to try some different nuances that could finally actually be heard in detail.

I do plenty of horn lines, a wide variety of synth parts, and lots of KB3 organ. Everything had more punch than ever before and I'm especially in love with how it does on the KB3/Vent sounds. Absolutely kept up with everyone on stage.

Even the drummer (the band leader) commented extensively on how much better and cleaner the keyboards sounded last night. His only less-than-glowing comment was he thought they seemed a little sharp (not pitch) and maybe harsh sounding, but he was also sitting in direct line of fire from the side Width speaker so he wasn't getting the proper blend. Still he really liked the improvement. So I'm batting 3-for-3 with this new amp. Nothing but positive praise from everyone who hears it.
(But you all knew that anyway...!) thu

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#2672999 - 03/16/15 11:20 AM Re: SpaceStation keyboard amp vs the bottom end [Re: KingstonCrim]
Jazzooo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/17/01
Posts: 502
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
I think it's pretty clear that drummers should be subsidizing the purchases of these amps. They all seem to love it. The other night, mine was positioned next to the side speaker and said it was too loud, so I just set a briefcase about 10" from it, angled towards the audience and he was fine.

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