VR-09 Hints and Tips

[High Diving Act]

Hey guys. Excuse me if I'm repeating something that has already been stated but.. from the Roland blog and in response to a query Craig made.. Finally an admission to an upcoming OS update. No significant detail.. just this...

OV Valle [Roland US]JUN 12, 2013 @ 16:42:40Hi Craig, apologies for the wait but I had to ask Ed Diaz about this one.Hello,At this time we can only load sounds from a backup file created by the VR-09 and unfortunately that would erase any sounds that were made by our customers. We are currently looking at updating the OS and hopefully this will be corrected so users will be able to Import and Export sounds without losing their custom patches.Feel free to talk to us directly: https://rolandus.zendesk.com/-Ed Diaz

[AnotherScott]

Finally an admission to an upcoming OS update.

...

"We are currently looking at updating the OS and hopefully this will be corrected so users will be able to Import and Export sounds without losing their custom patches."

I don't think I would call that an admission that there will be an update, it is semantically vague. "Looking at" is not an assurance or a firm plan - it can also just mean the idea is under consideration, being evaluated. From that perspective, saying they are "looking at" the possibility, and "hopefully" this can be addressed, well, I still wouldn't bet the farm on an update, much less what it might do. But it's nice to know that it's at least on their radar.

[Craig MacDonald]

Finally an admission to an upcoming OS update.

...

"We are currently looking at updating the OS and hopefully this will be corrected so users will be able to Import and Export sounds without losing their custom patches."

I don't think I would call that an admission that there will be an update, it is semantically vague. "Looking at" is not an assurance or a firm plan - it can also just mean the idea is under consideration, being evaluated. From that perspective, saying they are "looking at" the possibility, and "hopefully" this can be addressed, well, I still wouldn't bet the farm on an update, much less what it might do. But it's nice to know that it's at least on their radar.

 

I fully anticipate that there will be an update.. the question is "what will it fix/change".. I believe that they have to update the VR-09 to accomodate saving/loading individual registrations in order for the VR-09 to take full advantage of Axial sounds (which OV has said is coming), without having to use the iPad editor as a sound library. So I'm quite confident that an update is coming.. what it will fix or change is a different story.

 

I exect that an update WILL fix the percussion/CV issue, because they won't want their new VR organ engine to have this kind of flaw, and I suspect that they'll fix the issue of layering organ with other sounds causing the other sounds to go through the leslie sim (to me that is a bug), and they will fix the note re-triggering on sustained notes when changing sounds.. beyond that who knows..

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Since we know that are looking into doing an update, I agree, those sound like those should be priorities. But whether they "WILL fix" these things also depends on, well, whether they are indeed fixable. They may be trying to figure that out themselves!

[HammondDave]

Someone please tell me the last time Roland actually updated the OS in one of their keyboards... This would be a first in my (limited) Roland experience...

 

I assume the Fantom, being their old flagship workstation, was updated several times...

[AnotherScott]

Someone please tell me the last time Roland actually updated the OS in one of their keyboards... This would be a first in my (limited) Roland experience...

The Jupiter 80 had a very substantial 2.0 update. So it can happen...

[Craig MacDonald]

Someone please tell me the last time Roland actually updated the OS in one of their keyboards... This would be a first in my (limited) Roland experience...

 

I assume the Fantom, being their old flagship workstation, was updated several times...

 

HD, in the other VR-09 thread, someone referenced a timely BK series OS update.. I checked the Roland site and there is a bk-09 OS update 1.05 on the site... Now, like the Fantom, the BK series keyboard is more of a flagship product, but it is another example... I am quite confident that an update will come.. I just think that it will take a while for them to gather feedback, decode what can/can't/should be updated, and they may or may not do all the things we want..

[Craig MacDonald]

Ok so we have updates for the Fantom, the Jupiter 80, and the Bk-09... How many more updates do we need to highlight in order to demonstrate that Roland DOES update their OS's and satisfy you Hammonddave......?

[High Diving Act]

I'm not holding my breath.. I'm just stating that this is the very first time Roland has responded to our pleads with at least some acknowledgement an OS update needs to be reviewed. Ed was at least specific that the method of saving patches or registration is being looked at as an inclusion to an operating system update. Ed also provided a more direct link which could expedite the answering of more technical queries.. instead of the standard "I've forwarded your concerns to our synth ninja's". They will likely be careful not to say too much until they know they can deliver. We did slam OV for the false anticipation he created about the axial site.. ie " you will know tomorrow"... lol... the only thing I found out the next day was that the VR wasn't included..... uh...." at this time". Anyhow.. still enjoying my VR... I've settled in.. and any updates are icing on my 999 dollar cake. There's my tip and hint of the day.

[simchaleh]

Someone please tell me the last time Roland actually updated the OS in one of their keyboards... This would be a first in my (limited) Roland experience...

 

I assume the Fantom, being their old flagship workstation, was updated several times...

 

ive actually been meaning to post recently but didnt get to it, that roland just a few days ago, released yet another update for the roland bk5, which totally blew everyone away with the problems they adress. there was a veyr serious flaw that there was no 'favorites' tone section which is a must for an arranger keyboard, but i had no clue how they could possibly fix an issue like that, since its too late to add new buttons, and it would be very hard to navigate through a favorites list, wihtout fixed buttons, but in the new update, sure enough they fixed that issue, and its super simple as if it were designed from the begining in the model, without any menu diving.

in addition they also added yet another 3 sounds.

so dont give up!

[HammondDave]

All this is very good to hear...I have my fingers crossed for you guys.

[niacin]

The lack of a useable (linear or scooped out) curve for the expression pedal and the inability to assign it to the upper part only make the VR-09 absolutely useless in small group situations imo. The rest of it is not an issue for me. I need them to provide a menu just like the one for the damper pedal and provide a few more choices for the pedal response.

[jsuar99]

How sturdy is this keyboard and it's knobs?

[Kevmo]

It is lightweight, knobs are as expected per price. It is not fragile but not Sturdy like my Fantom fa76

[brenner13]

How sturdy is this keyboard and it's knobs?

I probably won't be doing any handstands on it and jumping up on it like a surf board is highly discouraged however as a weekend warrior, mine has done about eight gigs (three of 'em outside) and weekly practices without a hitch.

 

There are definitely better knobs out there on other higher end boards, but these provide adequate feel and seem to work fine with one finger adjustments. Some of the effects are a bit jumpy but that seems to be more due to the software programming. Some might find the buttons a bit rinky dink, but I like them.

 

The yuckiest control on the thing is the alpha-dial IMO; and unfortunately it is probably the best way to navigate registrations and different sounds inside a category. As mentioned in the other monster thread, the display has a slight lag when the dial is spun which can result with overshooting your intentional destination. The dial is notched so that it clicks one value at a time yet has a fair bit of wiggle...slightly disconcerting to me, but getting used to it.

 

The keybed itself is a great subject of debate. I hated it the first day it arrived, especially with the default sound upon start up being piano. The bed is shallow and the keys are plasticky, reminiscent of retail grade mini keys from 1988, but bigger...almost full-sized. After the initial disappointment, I have come around to actually enjoy the keybed with its "quick-fire" function on the organ. Expressive EP playing is possible after some practice.

 

Got another outside gig this weekend...pool party I think...should be fun.

[HammondDave]

 

Got another outside gig this weekend...pool party I think...should be fun.

 

Is it submersible?

[Craig MacDonald]

Dave I thought you were going to save your wise cracks for the other thread.. ;-)

 

I think that the build quality of the VR-09 is exactly what you would expect at this price point.. aside from the alpha dial, there doesn't seem to be any obvious weak points to me, and the issue with the alpha dial may be fixable via OS. From my perspective the buttons and knobs do feel a bit lighter but that doesn't necessarily mean they're less reliable.

 

A lot has been done to make the VR-09 one of the lightest keyboards around and it's in a plastic case, rather than a wood and metal case like traditional Hammond Clones.. However, it would be interesting to put a 12 pound VR-09 in a padded soft shell gig bag and a 37 pound Korg CX3 into the same style of soft padded gig bag and drop them both from 6-10 feet on their ends and see which won was damaged the most.. I tend to think that the MUCH lighter VR-09 would have the least damage.

 

I have no concerns about build quality with the VR-09..

[rien]

Is it submersible?

If you put it in a nice sealed plastic bag, it is. of course, the plastic has to be clear, or you can't see what key you are playing.

 

i just hope the water pressure does not trigger the quick-firing keyboard ! (actually, it triggers when i lay my tablet flat on top of the keyboard)

[HammondDave]

Dave I thought you were going to save your wise cracks for the other thread.. ;-)

 

..

 

C'mon... You can't hold me down forever! Just thought that this would be a cool feature for a pool party.

[brenner13]

Is it submersible?

If you put it in a nice sealed plastic bag, it is. of course, the plastic has to be clear, or you can't see what key you are playing.

 

i just hope the water pressure does not trigger the quick-firing keyboard ! (actually, it triggers when i lay my tablet flat on top of the keyboard)

 

Hmmm, that sounds intriguing. Gotta have tight seals around the audio cords...wonder if warranty covers water damage?

[Ekewaka]

Some take this forum work very seriously!

[rien]

If you put it in a nice sealed plastic bag, it is. of course, the plastic has to be clear, or you can't see what key you are playing.

 

Hmmm, that sounds intriguing. Gotta have tight seals around the audio cords...wonder if warranty covers water damage?

 

Remember that the vr-09 can run on batteries, and there is that nitty little wireless usb dongle. You don't need no stinking cable !!

 

(Btw, anybody tried to run it on batteries ? From the manual, it looks like you should only put rechargeable batteries in there, so I expect the batteries to recharge while the keyboard is plugged to its wall-wart. Is it really the case ?)

[Ekewaka]

If you put it in a nice sealed plastic bag, it is. of course, the plastic has to be clear, or you can't see what key you are playing.

 

Hmmm, that sounds intriguing. Gotta have tight seals around the audio cords...wonder if warranty covers water damage?

 

Remember that the vr-09 can run on batteries, and there is that nitty little wireless usb dongle. You don't need no stinking cable !!

 

(Btw, anybody tried to run it on batteries ? From the manual, it looks like you should only put rechargeable batteries in there, so I expect the batteries to recharge while the keyboard is plugged to its wall-wart. Is it really the case ?)

 

I seriously doubt it, maybe you get a little bit trickle charge but few if any keyboards with battery support are not constructed for charging batteries.

[DulceLabs.com]

From the manual, it looks like you should only put rechargeable batteries in there

 

 

I saw that, too. They actually say NOT to use alkaline or carbon batteries in the VR-09. It's funny because in the PX-5S they say use regular batteries - rechargeables are forboden.

:idk

 

[Dr88s]

I finally got mine after weeks upon weeks of looking for one.

 

First impression is great - this is just what the Dr. ordered for my needs. Lightweight and intuitive. Very easy to figure out. I don't need to delve pages and pages into menus to add or change an effect as I would on my m50.

 

Now I just wish I played organ better...

[simchaleh]

me too. ive been really enjoing this keyboard. and the simplicity of it, helps me to focus on actual playing. i really want to learn now about serious organ playing. and looking for a good place to start. is there any organ 101 tutorial?

ive been experimenting with the chorus on/off and leslie on/off slow/fast and finding which ones are good for which parts. i still dont like how the leslie cuts so much of the volume off the organ and how it sits in the mix. i tried playing with some of the settings but still not finding out how to make it sit right.

ive only been enjoying the leslie on more quieter mellow songs where the organ is well heard.

i find i need to take off the leslie, and sometimes the chorus, if i want it to cut through the mix on more rockier parts.

just plugged in my experssion pedal (moog). time to experiment with that.

fun fun fun

so after some experimenting i have a really important question.

is there any way to set the damper and expression setting to be registration specific and not global? in other words, can i have the damper be set to leslie speed, and the expression to expression on registration 1/3, but in registration 1/4 to have the damper be set to damper, and expression to mfx etc.

if not, has anyone reported this as an issue to roland?

thnks

[Kevmo]

The leslie and cv "volume loss " are correct normal emulations of a treble horn rotating or vibrato causing amplitude to modulate from a high level when on axis with your ears to lower when off axis.

Sorry i dont know about expression

 

[Craig MacDonald]

me too. ive been really enjoing this keyboard. and the simplicity of it, helps me to focus on actual playing. i really want to learn now about serious organ playing. and looking for a good place to start. is there any organ 101 tutorial?

ive been experimenting with the chorus on/off and leslie on/off slow/fast and finding which ones are good for which parts. i still dont like how the leslie cuts so much of the volume off the organ and how it sits in the mix. i tried playing with some of the settings but still not finding out how to make it sit right.

ive only been enjoying the leslie on more quieter mellow songs where the organ is well heard.

i find i need to take off the leslie, and sometimes the chorus, if i want it to cut through the mix on more rockier parts.

just plugged in my experssion pedal (moog). time to experiment with that.

fun fun fun

so after some experimenting i have a really important question.

is there any way to set the damper and expression setting to be registration specific and not global? in other words, can i have the damper be set to leslie speed, and the expression to expression on registration 1/3, but in registration 1/4 to have the damper be set to damper, and expression to mfx etc.

if not, has anyone reported this as an issue to roland?

thnks

 

As Kevmo said the characteristics of the leslie that you are describing are in fact characteristics of the leslie.. so nothing will change there.. EQ and or change the Tone control to your liking that's pretty much all you can do.. That said, some organ players disconnect the AC motor to the low rotor in their leslies to provide better clarity on the low to mid end.. You can simulate this by setting the low and high speeds to zero on the low rotor in the sim. You might try that to see if it helps.. or just try changing the slow speed to zero on the lower and/or both the lower and upper.. this simulates a single speed leslie that has just stop/tremolo. Try these options.

 

Requests have been made to Roland, via the roland blog, to update the damper/expression controller settings and allow them to be saved per registration.. not sure if this will be done, but it would be very handy indeed. Personally I always have my organ on the upper and my pianos on the lower section of the keyboard, so having these as global settings doesn't really bother me.. but I can certainly see the value and flexibility that would be gained if they could be saved per registration.

 

If you haven't posted your comments/suggestions on the Roland Blog I would encourage you to do so.. the more feedback they get about these issues the more likely it is that we'll see an update that addresses these things.

[simchaleh]

ok. it would make sense that they should fix the pedal assign thing easily. i know on the bk5, (which again im comparing since they came out in consequent years, and seem to be in the same quality/prdocution range) there is an option for each particular sound, to save to that sound settings for the damper and expression seperately.

whats a link to the roland blog again?

i just tried created some synth sounds from pcm's with the ipad editor. well theyre really sweet, nice full sound. but i found that i can only bulid the sound from 2 pcms. if i try to add a 3rd,one, it seems like it wont let me, and no matter what pcm i add, i still just get a default type sound from the 3rd part.

also i tried layering the sound in the editor, by pressing the 'split' key, in order to activate part 2 in the editor, and i find also there that im not being able to change the sound at all with adding pcms.

am i doing something wrong here, or are the sounds limited to only 2 pcms overall per patch?

thnks

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

The link for the blog is on page 1 of this thread.. 3rd post.. Can't help you with the synth question, I haven't done much synth programming yet... Maybe someone else can help here...