Hip-Hop, ARRRRRRGH

[Dave da Dude]

Every time my fourteen year old son gets in the car he changes the radio to his station.

 

It plays Hip-Hop, Rap and Rap/Hip-Hop. Is it just me or is this stuff just crap!

 

There has to be better new stuff than this out there. It reminds me of "Bubble Gum" music from the late 1960's / early 1970's, notably 1920 Fruitgum Company (now there's one that won't be in the time capsule.

 

Dave

[henryrobinett]

It's funny how tastes change. Youth always seems to want to challenge the status quo in order to find their own space. I suppose there's some hip hop that's not that bad. But I've been thinking most everything I hear on the radio sucks for many years. Remember Tommy Roe?

[Dave da Dude]

Tommy who?

 

Or is that just "Tommy" by The Who

[please-drive-faster]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

There has to be better new stuff than this out there.

Unfortunately, there probably isn't anything better out there on the dial. Today's market caters towards your son and his age group. So logically, the radio(popular) stations is only interested in marketing the product to make it more pervasive. We can thank the record execs. for lowering our intellect.

[Guitarzan]

its not you Dave. now i like many kinds of music but..But i cannot stand listening to canned drums or fart noises while some guy talks about himself. some times there will be music involved ( someone elses!) or cheap keyboard tones that sound like a childs toy made it. i mean how long does it take to record this stuff? i am also annoyed by the posing and acting tough. for f--k sakes could they smile once and awhile and not take themselves so serious? but hey there are some country artists that bug the hell out of me as well. i try to avoid it.

[pauldil]

Originally posted by please-drive-faster:

Unfortunately, there probably isn't anything better out there on the dial. Today's market caters towards your son and his age group. So logically, the radio(popular) stations is only interested in marketing the product to make it more pervasive. We can thank the record execs. for lowering our intellect.

You know, I'm sure that's exactly what MY dad thought about what I listened to in the late 60's - early 70's, and probably the same thing HIS dad thought about what my dad listened to in the late 40's - early 50's. I believe it has to do with something called life & aging

 

Paul

[snoz65]

I agree that Hip-Hop mostly sucks. I can appreciate some witty lyrics and a catchy hook but I find that the lack of melody and harmony means that it barely passes as music.

Has anybody noticed that you can take any generic Hip-Hop song and swap the lyrics with another and it will still sound the same.

I also wish they would stop telling everybody how they are the badest MF on the block.

It's sad that most of this 'music' is in the form of samples and in most cases is disrespectfull to the original tune.

I guess there will always be some form of music that appeals to the younger generation and that the oldies will despise, I blame disco!

At least there seems to be plenty of young kids with a healthy respect for the 'real' forms of music. It's encouraging to see 16 year old kids that are into Led Zepelin or Frank Zappa, all is not lost!

[RichardAshkenazi]

I like Zappa. I also like De La Soul.

 

I don't like Nickelback. Nor do I like P. Diddy.

 

Frank Zappa : Nickelback :: De La Soul : P. Diddy

 

Look, the radio is not exactly the best place to find high quality, innovative music, especially these days. As was already said, it's about marketing with mainstream radio and TV and such. Don't let yourself think that what you hear on some cheesy sensationalist rap station is the whole story.

 

De La Soul, Blackalicious, Jurassic 5, Common, Atmosphere, J-Live, the list goes on. There's more out there.

 

As far as the bragging, some of that's a hip hop tradition. But a lot of rappers aren't into that.

 

Hip hop is music. To imply that it is less than music is insulting to its practitioners and fans.

 

Sampling started because the economic situations in the areas where the genre started were such that real instruments were hard to afford, and so people created a way to use recordings to make new music. Turntables are, I would argue, a new class of instrument, especially when you look at the scratching virtuosi. Hey, they're turning up as parts of live bands these days, after all.

 

Freestyling is another impressive part of hip hop. I mean, these people come up with lyrics on the spot; it's just like improvising on an instrument, except the challenge of pitch is replaced by the challenge of language. Not an easy task; requires a mastery of the art, like anything else.

 

Now can we stop bashing entire genres of music already? If you don't like it, don't listen, and if you're forced to listen because someone else wants to hear it, don't complain. It might mean something to them.

[skipclone 1]

It`s certainly not my thing, but if I think about it, there`s a long tradition of people who are surrounded by violent circumstances making poetry in one form or another. It`s an outlet for part on one`s soul which may not be available otherwise. Hip-hop is mostly never going to be pretty and euphonious, that`s not the environment it`s coming from.

[BiC]

Pertaining to "sampling"...

 

I say we turn the tables on them!!!

 

How 'bout WE take THEIR "lyrics" and turn them into REAL songs??? Permitting their lyrics would even be suitable.

 

Instead of them taking "OUR" songs and turning them into some market-driven JUNK...

 

Peace

[Guitarzan]

there is an idea

[strat0124]

its the dumbing down effect.........radio has it nailed.

[Base]

Originally posted by RichardAshkenazi:

Sampling started because the economic situations in the areas where the genre started were such that real instruments were hard to afford, and so people created a way to use recordings to make new music.

Don't suppose they'd consider stopping now that cheap, good quality instruments are widely available, would they...?

[RichardAshkenazi]

Originally posted by Base:

Originally posted by RichardAshkenazi:

Sampling started because the economic situations in the areas where the genre started were such that real instruments were hard to afford, and so people created a way to use recordings to make new music.

Don't suppose they'd consider stopping now that cheap, good quality instruments are widely available, would they...?

Traditions do not change just because they're no longer necessary.

 

But there are artists who use live musicians. Look at the Roots. They've never used turntables or samples. (Though one of their members often imitates scratches with his voice...)

 

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Hip-hop is mostly never going to be pretty and euphonious, that`s not the environment it`s coming from.

I disagree. Some of it is quite beautiful and inspiring. You just need to know what to listen to.

[Darklava]

Originally posted by Base:

Originally posted by RichardAshkenazi:

Sampling started because the economic situations in the areas where the genre started were such that real instruments were hard to afford, and so people created a way to use recordings to make new music.

Don't suppose they'd consider stopping now that cheap, good quality instruments are widely available, would they...?

Oh dear richard I believe they wanted to venture in to a new form of music.Though I find it hard to believe it was economic reason's why they rap over other bands hook's.It was just something they discovered that worked.Now it's big money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.The reason I like very little of it I hear alot of the old music I grew up on.All the sample's they steal from old r&b and funk group's from the 70's.Some have some cool grooves I'd like to erase the vocals and solo over the top.Some are like a non stop loop.

[Dak Lander]

I have a rule. If I'm driving, I pick the music to listen to. I may heed a suggestion here & there but it's normally going to be what I want. Too much of the crap on the radio drives the stress level up & with traffic in SoCal as bad as it is, I don't need other distractions.

[RichardAshkenazi]

Originally posted by DARKLAVA:

Oh dear richard I believe they wanted to venture in to a new form of music.Though I find it hard to believe it was economic reason's why they rap over other bands hook's.It was just something they discovered that worked.Now it's big money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

How is that not an economic reason?

 

Seriously, though, hip hop is a lot older than the era of its commercial success. Were rappers rolling in cash in the early 70s? No.

[Base]

Traditions do not change just because they're no longer necessary.

Yes, I know, was just taking a cheap swipe.

 

Have to agree that if I ever have kids tho, they will not be picking the radio station in the car. In fact they're grounded if they ever show any interest in hip-hop, bloody devils music

 

(I'm bored at work and kidding around before you give me a deadly serious reply!!!)

[Darklava]

Originally posted by RichardAshkenazi:

Originally posted by DARKLAVA:

Oh dear richard I believe they wanted to venture in to a new form of music.Though I find it hard to believe it was economic reason's why they rap over other bands hook's.It was just something they discovered that worked.Now it's big money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

How is that not an economic reason?

 

Seriously, though, hip hop is a lot older than the era of its commercial success. Were rappers rolling in cash in the early 70s? No.

Well I happen to grow up in the north end of flint mi in the 70's.There where band's all over the place the JC'S REVOLUTION OF SOUL ON AND ON!!!

What happen back then is what curt cobain did in the early 90's.They wanted something different than the ohio players earth wind and fire ect ect....same funky bass lines though.But now we have something to say.It' like a jungle sometimes.Rap in the 70's was underground.Nobody in the under ground made money.Now rap today is like 80's hair bands.NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN....

[Dave da Dude]

RichardAshkenazi,

Now can we stop bashing entire genres of music already? If you don't like it, don't listen, and if you're forced to listen because someone else wants to hear it, don't complain. It might mean something to them.

I wasn't bashing. I just over-simplified to get the ball rolling. I sincerely wonder if I am missing something. Some of it does have a pretty good hook, notably "Freakin' Weekend" (I don't know if that's the title or not). I was listening to Hip hop again this morning and it dawned on me that maybe the reason that I didn't like it is that there is NO GUITAR! Oh, my God. Sacrilige. Maybe, as you say, this is because ".. Sampling started because the economic situations in the areas where the genre started were such that real instruments were hard to afford, and so people created a way to use recordings to make new music." That's the sort of thing that I'm trying to understand. Is that REALLY true, or just the "story"? A used electric guit can be had for $50 and an amp for another $50, even in my "middle class" world, an acoustic for less. I would think they would cost even less in an economically depressed environment. I wonder if this (the poor guys not being able to afford instruments) is a hook in itself.

 

I am interest in understanding the music, so I can understand my son. Maybe an impossible task, my father certainly found it so, but I'd like to try.

 

skipclone1,

It`s certainly not my thing, but if I think about it, there`s a long tradition of people who are surrounded by violent circumstances making poetry in one form or another. It`s an outlet for part on one`s soul which may not be available otherwise. Hip-hop is mostly never going to be pretty and euphonious, that`s not the environment it`s coming from.

Poetry is one thing, music another. Maybe it's a valid art form, just not music? Seriously! It has a beat, but so does poetry, just look at the "Beatnicks" of the early '50's(?). Used a bongo drum, had a beat, some rythm, but no instruments. But they didn't "cop" to doing it because they didn't have the money to buy instruments.

 

Again, I'm not bashing (well maybe I was initially in tone), just trying to understand. But, pop music without a guitar!?

 

Hey Richard, I'm not trying to "bash" the genre, just understand the REAL reason for things and not just some "posturing" to add to marketing appeal, as in "Gee, we're just to poo® to afford real instruments like you "establishment" rich guys."

 

Dave

[BiC]

AEROSMITH IS TO BLAME!!!

 

Didn't they start it all with allowing RUN DMC to mix "Walk This Way"???

 

hehehehe

 

Peace

[Mike Gug]

I don't watch much TV, but recently I saw a sad looking Eminem on the screen so I stopped to see what his deal was for that particular day. Here's what I heard (kinda made me laugh)...

 

He was talking about some felony charge or something, against him that almost landed him in jail. He said that when he was in front of the judge and his life was in the judge's hands, he said, "the thought of going to jail really scared me!" What a PUSS! What happened to all the killin', chillin' and illin'?

 

Was Eminem lying to us for his own financial gain? All the kids he put on the road to the gangsta lifestyle have been mislead! Maybe jail IS something to fear!

 

YEAH YOU IDIOT, STAY OUT OF JAIL!

 

There IS good rap and hip-hop out there. I know there is, and it needs to get out for its own credibility sake.

[Guitarzan]

you have some good points dave, there is a lot of posing. i am trying to understand hip hop, and i find it difficult sometimes. i don't know how much cheaper it is/was to sample( equipment is needed) compared to buying an instrument. i would guess the old blues guys had a harder time aquiring instruments! it didn't stop them from making music. there are a lot of myths about all genres of music , hell even our history is jazzed up to make it more exciting. so how much of the history of rap is true or enhanced is anyones guess.

[BiC]

Originally posted by Mike Gug:

There IS good rap and hip-hop out there. I know there is, and it needs to get out for its own credibility sake.

YEP! There's definitely some great Christian Hip-Hop. Just check out T-BONE:

 

T-BONE

 

Peace

[RichardAshkenazi]

Originally posted by Mike Gug:

There IS good rap and hip-hop out there. I know there is, and it needs to get out for its own credibility sake.

I supplied a short list up above.

 

There's also good stuff in the mainstream, but often it gets overshadowed by the shallow stuff. Common, for example, had a video in fairly heavy rotation on MTV for a while recently (the song, "Come Close," is a sweet love tune), and the Black Eyed Peas had a hit with "Where's the Love," a song about how hate is destroying society. (Lyrics: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/b/blackeyedpeaslyrics/whereisthelovelyrics.html )

[Guitarzan]

Originally posted by Mike Gug:

I don't watch much TV, but recently I saw a sad looking Eminem on the screen so I stopped to see what his deal was for that particular day. Here's what I heard (kinda made me laugh)...

 

He was talking about some felony charge or something, against him that almost landed him in jail. He said that when he was in front of the judge and his life was in the judge's hands, he said, "the thought of going to jail really scared me!" What a PUSS! What happened to all the killin', chillin' and illin'?

 

Was Eminem lying to us for his own financial gain? All the kids he put on the road to the gangsta lifestyle have been mislead! Maybe jail IS something to fear!

 

YEAH YOU IDIOT, STAY OUT OF JAIL!

 

There IS good rap and hip-hop out there. I know there is, and it needs to get out for its own credibility sake.

yeah, funny huh? i think what is even funnier is the new fad..pimpin!! ooh something else our 10to 13 year olds need to base their whole exsistance on.

thank you big dumb ass record lables and dumb ass

rap poseurs in it for the money( you know who you are). ya no wat im sayin? sorry if i offend anyone i must be having my period

[RichardAshkenazi]

Originally posted by Dave th Dude:

A used electric guit can be had for $50 and an amp for another $50, even in my "middle class" world, an acoustic for less. I would think they would cost even less in an economically depressed environment. I wonder if this (the poor guys not being able to afford instruments) is a hook in itself.

It's even cheaper to use what you already have: turntables. Maybe they just didn't want to organize bands. I mean, if an MC wants to have something to rap to, and he only needs one other guy to do it, why not? As far as modern rap, I doubt many of them will talk much about being too poor to afford instruments once they've made it. Those who use turntables do it because it's the custom. Traditions are not based on practicality. (And again, it's not a universal. I mean, when Dr. Dre is producing backing tracks in the studio, he often uses real live musicians.)

 

Poetry is one thing, music another. Maybe it's a valid art form, just not music? Seriously! It has a beat, but so does poetry, just look at the "Beatnicks" of the early '50's(?). Used a bongo drum, had a beat, some rythm, but no instruments.

Is a bongo not an instrument? (Just kidding...) Anyway, I'd say beat poetry is poetry with decidedly musical accompaniment.

 

Rap is music; the only thing missing is scale-based melody (and even that occasionally pops up). Everything else is there. (I mean, how can something have rhythm and meter and verse-chorus type structure and phrasing and chord progressions and not be music?)

 

Also: 100th POST! WOOHOO!!

[Guitarzan]

Yes Richard "where is the love " is a good tune. i can not knock someone who has a positive message . actually i do like the tune , neat riff under the verses. i am not as pleased with the poseur stuff though. there has been a lot of valid points here and as usual it is all subjective. a little note on black eyed peas.. george payon jr. ( did i spell it right?) plays yamaha guitars so i have to like him and if i remember correctly he was smiling in the yamaha ad!!!

[Caevan O’Shite]

I remember as clearly as if it were yesterday, the first time I heard the Beatles... my Grandmother had turned on the radio, mid-chorus of "She Loves You", and when "Yeah, yeah, yeah, YEAH!!" came blaring through, she said disgustedly, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all these young kids sing nowadays, yeah, yeah, yeah. Phltptltpt!!"

 

I remember when Reggae, for instance, was something so foreign to me that it didn't sound like music to me. I had absolutely no point of context to reference by, but I clearly remember the musical epiphany that I experienced one day listening to Legend, the Bob Marley "best of" anthology. Suddenly, I loved Reggae!

 

Every genre of music has loads of "product" dreck that will be all over radio and "record" sales. The bigger the market, the more dreck. If you feel so inclined, the dreck can be searched through for signs of better music, and gold can be found.

 

I for one don't feel the need to search so through Rap/Hip-Hop music, but I'm sure that such a search would be as productive as searching through lots of, say, obscure Prog and Fusion. (Overly brainy but fatiguing and pretentious can be as bad as dumbed-down and chest-beating.) And, I'll always give a fair shake to whatever Hip-Hop just happens to come my way.

 

(Just a little trivial tangent-)

 

Incidentally, Dave, th Dude- the words "Beat" and "Beatnik" came from old African-American expressions like "I'm beat to my socks, man. I ain't got your twenty dollars." "Beat to my socks" as in being figuratively beat and mugged and left in your underwear. Somewhere along the line, the readers of Jack Kerouac began using this term, and the advent of Sputnik provided the second half, probably in the ink of some journalist.

[revolead]

Unfortunately, the crap is here to stay. I've never liked rap. Maybe has something to do with the fact that I'm a real musician. I still have yet to figure out what about it appeals to teenagers, and I'm one of 'em. It's a mystery Dave, it really is.