Feel free to ask Myles

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by alanfc:

hi Myles-

 

With "Long plate"/"Short plate" in Preamp tubes-

 

what are some generalizations you can point out about the differences?

I only read that "long plate=more microphonic".

 

Can you summarize these two types? Or lead me to a site somewhere.? I looked on your site but couldn't find.. maybe its so obvious there's no discussion of it !

Also perhaps the what/why and the valid-invalid arguements for and against?

Thanks alot

Long plates can tend to be more microphonic and also tend to be brighter (if you are talking NOS).

 

The famed Telefunken 12AX7 smooth plate was bright and articulate. It was also more free from physical microphonics than long plates of today due to better workmanship.

[alanfc]

OK I get it. So a person would =want = long plate to liven up a dark amp? So this is a tradeoff of some kind..?

 

thanks alot Myles

[Caevan O’Shite]

Hmmmnn... sounds like the "famed Telefunken 12AX7 smooth-plate" would be another excellent re-issue/knock-off project for a modern tube supplier and/or producer...

 

Any comments, input, inside info, or smoke-signals, Myles?

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by alanfc:

OK I get it. So a person would =want = long plate to liven up a dark amp? So this is a tradeoff of some kind..?

 

thanks alot Myles

Yes, a long plate Telefunken will be brighter as would a new Ei 7025.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

Hmmmnn... sounds like the "famed Telefunken 12AX7 smooth-plate" would be another excellent re-issue/knock-off project for a modern tube supplier and/or producer...

 

Any comments, input, inside info, or smoke-signals, Myles?

Ei's 7025/ECC83 is a long smooth plate that is actually produced on the original Telefunken tooling in many cases. Many years back Ei was the OEM for Telefunken where German sent tooling and Engineers to Yugoslavia (at that time) and this is where a lot of these were made.

 

These are still pretty nice for some applications but as many long plates, are a bit more prone to physical microbphonics.

[caughtlikefire]

Myles,

 

I'm still trying to get the issues with my Sundown figured out. The bias trimmer will only adjust the bias between 20mA and 23mA with the Sovtek 6550's. Bias voltage on standby with no tubes will only go from -65V to -62.5V so its not the tubes. Interestingly, the trimer seems to have a pretty full range in terms of measured resistance so I think its working fine.

 

In the meantime, what GT rating would you recommend for the 6L6S in a Mesa Single Rectifier? I need a warmer sound but don't want to go too high and have tubes that don't last long.

 

Sorry for hitting you with 2 questions at once

[Caevan O’Shite]

O.K., Myles- dumb question- where can either N.O.S. Telefunken 12AX7s smooth-plates or EI 7025s/ECC83s (either of them preferably tested and even rated) be found? Where would you recommend?

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by caughtlikefire:

Myles,

 

I'm still trying to get the issues with my Sundown figured out. The bias trimmer will only adjust the bias between 20mA and 23mA with the Sovtek 6550's. Bias voltage on standby with no tubes will only go from -65V to -62.5V so its not the tubes. Interestingly, the trimer seems to have a pretty full range in terms of measured resistance so I think its working fine.

 

In the meantime, what GT rating would you recommend for the 6L6S in a Mesa Single Rectifier? I need a warmer sound but don't want to go too high and have tubes that don't last long.

 

Sorry for hitting you with 2 questions at once

On the first question, I am not sure of what you are asking me.

 

On the Mesa question:

 

On rating numbers:

 

Basically, a #1 will distort sooner, and a #10 later. If, for example,

with a mid range tube, say a #5, makes your amp start to break in the

output section at a volume setting on the amp of "4", then with a lower

number tube, like a #2, your amp would have a same sort of break into

output distortion at say a volume setting of "3". With a higher tube,

such as an #8, then you amp would stay clean to about perhaps "6" on

the volume.

 

High rating numbers are not more or less powerful, they just distort

later. These are preferred by heavy rocker that want maximum clean

output, as they get their distortion and tone from effects or pedals.

These are not as touch dynamic.

 

Low number tubes are very touch dynamic, and more suited for a

lot of folks, for smaller venues and recording.

 

Most folks prefer the 4-7 range tubes, as they are the closest in character

and touch to what the amplifier designer had in mind. They are also the most

versatile.

 

On scale conversions:

 

On Fender amps, output tubes in newer amps are

color coded. The scale is:

 

Blue = GT 1-3 rating

White = GT 4-7 rating

Red = GT 8-10 rating

 

On Mesa Boogie amps there are six color codes.

All of them are in the GT 4-6 range. These amps

have a fixed bias to staying in this range is the

same as Mesa tubes.

 

Mesa vs Groove Tubes scale

 

Red 4

Yellow 4

Green 5

Gray 5

Blue 6

White 6

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

O.K., Myles- dumb question- where can either N.O.S. Telefunken 12AX7s smooth-plates or EI 7025s/ECC83s (either of them preferably tested and even rated) be found? Where would you recommend?

Mike at www.kcanostubes.com for NOS

 

GT at http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1588 for the long smooth plate Ei's as GT tosses 85%+ of these that do not pass.

[caughtlikefire]

Originally posted by myles111:

On the first question, I am not sure of what you are asking me.

Myles,

I should have quoted my last post from the previous page - sorry about that. I was hoping you could tell me what to do next to get the bias up to spec.

 

Here's the deal:

 

1)Distortion is very grainy and fizzy, sustain is lacking.

2)You asked me where the bias was set. I measured it at 21mA (w/Sovtek 6550 - I have new JJ KT88s waiting to go in)

3)Bias trimmer turned all the way will only bump bias to 23mA .

4)Bias voltage (#5 pin while on standby) is -65

Trimmer only changes the bias voltage by ~3V

5)Trimmer seems to be functioning properly - resistance changes pretty drastically when knob is turned.

 

I'm stumped - what should I check/test/do next to get the bias up where it should be?

 

thanks!

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by myles111:

"Mike at www.kcanostubes.com for NOS

 

GT at http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1588 for the long smooth plate Ei's as GT tosses 85%+ of these that do not pass."

Thanks, Myles!

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by caughtlikefire:

Originally posted by myles111:

On the first question, I am not sure of what you are asking me.

Myles,

I should have quoted my last post from the previous page - sorry about that. I was hoping you could tell me what to do next to get the bias up to spec.

 

Here's the deal:

 

1)Distortion is very grainy and fizzy, sustain is lacking.

2)You asked me where the bias was set. I measured it at 21mA (w/Sovtek 6550 - I have new JJ KT88s waiting to go in)

3)Bias trimmer turned all the way will only bump bias to 23mA .

4)Bias voltage (#5 pin while on standby) is -65

Trimmer only changes the bias voltage by ~3V

5)Trimmer seems to be functioning properly - resistance changes pretty drastically when knob is turned.

 

I'm stumped - what should I check/test/do next to get the bias up where it should be?

 

thanks!

Your bias needs to be at least 40mA. It sounds like the resistor in the bias circuit needs to be changed out as it does not allow swing in the proper region.

[Stanimal]

Myles,

I went ahead and ordered a SAG-12AX7-MPI from the GT web site, to be used as the phase inverter (V3) in my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. Will I need to rebias my power tubes when the MPI goes in????

Thanks Again!

Stan

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Stanimal:

Myles,

I went ahead and ordered a SAG-12AX7-MPI from the GT web site, to be used as the phase inverter (V3) in my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. Will I need to rebias my power tubes when the MPI goes in????

Thanks Again!

Stan

Stan,

 

No rebias needed. Plug and play.

[Stanimal]

Cool. Thanks again Myles!

[timrocker]

Hi Myles,

Can you please recommend a preamp tube for my Hughes & Kettner Attax 200? It uses one 12ax7 type tube. I don't use the amp's distortion, (which I'm told is diode d. anyway) I just put a tube screamer and alternately a Sansamp in front of it. There is currently an ECC83S in it, I think.

Tim

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by timrocker:

Hi Myles,

Can you please recommend a preamp tube for my Hughes & Kettner Attax 200? It uses one 12ax7 type tube. I don't use the amp's distortion, (which I'm told is diode d. anyway) I just put a tube screamer and alternately a Sansamp in front of it. There is currently an ECC83S in it, I think.

Tim

Tim,

 

If you want it warmer and smoother try a 12AX7C9. You can get nice ones pretty cheaply at www.dougstubes.com and tell him you want something that is about 100/100 or 105/105 or so on his test rig.

 

If you want it darker, the GT-12AX7M (which are currently out of stock at GT but Doug may have some).

 

If you want brighter the GT-7025 will work nicely and Doug may also have these.

[WaterMan]

Myles,

 

Largely on your recommendations, I currently have a Dr. Z Maz 18 jr,. Gerhart Gilmore, and Pierson's Champ. Great amps. To "complete" the line-up, if that's possible, I'm looking for a low-watt combo (1X10 or 12"), ideally Fenderish 6L6-sounding to complement the EL-84s in the Maz Jr. The combo would be used for living-room jams -- blues and blues rock. I do like a bit of reverb, BTW.

 

I'm thinking the Carr Rambler and the new Mesa LoneStar Special (I know the latter is not 6L6 driven). Since I can't A/B these, what do you think, and are there others you'd recommend considering? I would also consider a head if there are tone advantages, that would be used with either my Dr Z 2x10 cabinet or Tone Tubby 1x12.

 

Thanks Myles.

[timrocker]

Thanks. Myles!

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by WaterMan:

Myles,

 

Largely on your recommendations, I currently have a Dr. Z Maz 18 jr,. Gerhart Gilmore, and Pierson's Champ. Great amps. To "complete" the line-up, if that's possible, I'm looking for a low-watt combo (1X10 or 12"), ideally Fenderish 6L6-sounding to complement the EL-84s in the Maz Jr. The combo would be used for living-room jams -- blues and blues rock. I do like a bit of reverb, BTW.

 

I'm thinking the Carr Rambler and the new Mesa LoneStar Special (I know the latter is not 6L6 driven). Since I can't A/B these, what do you think, and are there others you'd recommend considering? I would also consider a head if there are tone advantages, that would be used with either my Dr Z 2x10 cabinet or Tone Tubby 1x12.

 

Thanks Myles.

WaterMan

 

The new Mesa LoneStar with the EL84's is a really nice amp. I already liked their 6L6 version prior to the EL84 version. I think the LoneStar is going to go down in Mesa history in ten years as something that was special for them. The front ends are nice and not too gainy (to the point of being indistinct and buzzy or overly compressed). The EL84 version in the 5 watt mode is pretty fun. I think these are pretty nice amps.

 

The Carr Rambler. Well this amp is already a classic. The two 6L6's in cathode bias give a lot of harmonic content. These amps are not even close to being in the same price range as the Mesa but then again, even if you never see inside one of Steve Carr's amps and just look at the $15.00+ plug on the end of the power cord you get an idea of what is happening inside. The Rambler is an incredible piece of work. From 9:00 to 3:00 on the volume the level does not change all that much, it just gets different degrees of grind. Really a touch sensitive player's dream. The amp records amazingly well. Lower wattage means you can use big wonderful studio condensor mics as was done by all the greats in the 50's, 60's, 70's. All that classic Led Zep stuff was done on amps of about 10 watts.

 

In the end they are very different amps. It is going to boil down to personal taste. If it were me, I'd go for the Carr. Part of my logic though is that when I get most amps I keep them for decades if not forever. The Carr amps are built in a way that if I ever have grandkids they could play the amps when they are in their mid life age bracket.

[Ricardo.]

Dear Myles,

 

I have a sort of stupid question that I didn't want to bog down the main board with. Hope I don't come off sounding too stupid

 

Are there any drawbacks to 3-humbucker'd guitars? They aren't that common and I'm wondering whether it's because three humbuckers end up sounding awful due to some kind of weird technical problem or they aren't feasible or whatever!

 

And are they that much more versatile than their two humbucker'd cousins? Or does the middle pickup just end up sounding like having the bridge and neck on at the same time?

 

Thanks!

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by Starcaster:

Dear Myles,

 

I have a sort of stupid question that I didn't want to bog down the main board with. Hope I don't come off sounding too stupid

 

Are there any drawbacks to 3-humbucker'd guitars? They aren't that common and I'm wondering whether it's because three humbuckers end up sounding awful due to some kind of weird technical problem or they aren't feasible or whatever!

 

And are they that much more versatile than their two humbucker'd cousins? Or does the middle pickup just end up sounding like having the bridge and neck on at the same time?

 

Thanks!

I think ....

 

1. There is no need

 

2. Center pickup gets in the way

 

3. Too much magnet mass on the body kills sustain unless the pickups are so far from the strings that any single pickup position will not sound proper (to me anyway).

[WaterMan]

Thanks Myles, but one last thing. Given that the Rambler is one of the pricier Carr options, how do you feel about the Mercury or Hammerhead as a complement to the Maz 18 Jr. I'm really trying to get the Fender-vibe 6L6 thing going, so Rambler may be it, but I thought I'd ask.

 

And if Rambler's still your first choice among Carr models, and I wanted to not spend as much, what about THD Univalve with 6L6. Again, low power, blues crunch with Fenderish clean is what I'm ultimately looking for.

 

And thanks again for recommendation on the Dr. Z -- it's amazing.

 

 

Originally posted by myles111:

Originally posted by WaterMan:

Myles,

 

Largely on your recommendations, I currently have a Dr. Z Maz 18 jr,. Gerhart Gilmore, and Pierson's Champ. Great amps. To "complete" the line-up, if that's possible, I'm looking for a low-watt combo (1X10 or 12"), ideally Fenderish 6L6-sounding to complement the EL-84s in the Maz Jr. The combo would be used for living-room jams -- blues and blues rock. I do like a bit of reverb, BTW.

 

I'm thinking the Carr Rambler and the new Mesa LoneStar Special (I know the latter is not 6L6 driven). Since I can't A/B these, what do you think, and are there others you'd recommend considering? I would also consider a head if there are tone advantages, that would be used with either my Dr Z 2x10 cabinet or Tone Tubby 1x12.

 

Thanks Myles.

WaterMan

 

The new Mesa LoneStar with the EL84's is a really nice amp. I already liked their 6L6 version prior to the EL84 version. I think the LoneStar is going to go down in Mesa history in ten years as something that was special for them. The front ends are nice and not too gainy (to the point of being indistinct and buzzy or overly compressed). The EL84 version in the 5 watt mode is pretty fun. I think these are pretty nice amps.

 

The Carr Rambler. Well this amp is already a classic. The two 6L6's in cathode bias give a lot of harmonic content. These amps are not even close to being in the same price range as the Mesa but then again, even if you never see inside one of Steve Carr's amps and just look at the $15.00+ plug on the end of the power cord you get an idea of what is happening inside. The Rambler is an incredible piece of work. From 9:00 to 3:00 on the volume the level does not change all that much, it just gets different degrees of grind. Really a touch sensitive player's dream. The amp records amazingly well. Lower wattage means you can use big wonderful studio condensor mics as was done by all the greats in the 50's, 60's, 70's. All that classic Led Zep stuff was done on amps of about 10 watts.

 

In the end they are very different amps. It is going to boil down to personal taste. If it were me, I'd go for the Carr. Part of my logic though is that when I get most amps I keep them for decades if not forever. The Carr amps are built in a way that if I ever have grandkids they could play the amps when they are in their mid life age bracket.

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by WaterMan:

Thanks Myles, but one last thing. Given that the Rambler is one of the pricier Carr options, how do you feel about the Mercury or Hammerhead as a complement to the Maz 18 Jr. I'm really trying to get the Fender-vibe 6L6 thing going, so Rambler may be it, but I thought I'd ask.

 

And if Rambler's still your first choice among Carr models, and I wanted to not spend as much, what about THD Univalve with 6L6. Again, low power, blues crunch with Fenderish clean is what I'm ultimately looking for.

 

And thanks again for recommendation on the Dr. Z -- it's amazing.

 

 

Originally posted by myles111:

Originally posted by WaterMan:

Myles,

 

Largely on your recommendations, I currently have a Dr. Z Maz 18 jr,. Gerhart Gilmore, and Pierson's Champ. Great amps. To "complete" the line-up, if that's possible, I'm looking for a low-watt combo (1X10 or 12"), ideally Fenderish 6L6-sounding to complement the EL-84s in the Maz Jr. The combo would be used for living-room jams -- blues and blues rock. I do like a bit of reverb, BTW.

 

I'm thinking the Carr Rambler and the new Mesa LoneStar Special (I know the latter is not 6L6 driven). Since I can't A/B these, what do you think, and are there others you'd recommend considering? I would also consider a head if there are tone advantages, that would be used with either my Dr Z 2x10 cabinet or Tone Tubby 1x12.

 

Thanks Myles.

WaterMan

 

The new Mesa LoneStar with the EL84's is a really nice amp. I already liked their 6L6 version prior to the EL84 version. I think the LoneStar is going to go down in Mesa history in ten years as something that was special for them. The front ends are nice and not too gainy (to the point of being indistinct and buzzy or overly compressed). The EL84 version in the 5 watt mode is pretty fun. I think these are pretty nice amps.

 

The Carr Rambler. Well this amp is already a classic. The two 6L6's in cathode bias give a lot of harmonic content. These amps are not even close to being in the same price range as the Mesa but then again, even if you never see inside one of Steve Carr's amps and just look at the $15.00+ plug on the end of the power cord you get an idea of what is happening inside. The Rambler is an incredible piece of work. From 9:00 to 3:00 on the volume the level does not change all that much, it just gets different degrees of grind. Really a touch sensitive player's dream. The amp records amazingly well. Lower wattage means you can use big wonderful studio condensor mics as was done by all the greats in the 50's, 60's, 70's. All that classic Led Zep stuff was done on amps of about 10 watts.

 

In the end they are very different amps. It is going to boil down to personal taste. If it were me, I'd go for the Carr. Part of my logic though is that when I get most amps I keep them for decades if not forever. The Carr amps are built in a way that if I ever have grandkids they could play the amps when they are in their mid life age bracket.

...........

 

The Hammerhead is a very gainy amp and far far far away from the "Fender" camp.

 

The Mercury is a great amp but maybe pricy at almost 2x the cost of the Hammerhead. It is also an 8 watt amp and may not have enough clean headroom.

 

The THD Univalve with a good 6L6 puts out about 12 clean watts and close to 15 cranked. Using a 5751 in V1 it has some great Fender class A early tweedish tones on tap. With a 6V6 it is also a great blues amp and cranked up all the way is a very rock hard sound that is very cool. The 6V6 or 6L6 setup with a 4x12 cab is much louder than one would expect.

 

Hope this helped a bit.

 

If you are ever close to L.A. I would be happy to let you play with all these configs.

[Caevan O’Shite]

If I may butt-in here...

 

Waterman- and Myles, too- please try out a Tone King Meteor with the two-6V6 configuration. (They also offer 'em with EL84s.) These combos are easily the best "blackface Fender"-amps I've ever played through, better than any vintage Fenders I've checked out; their designer really nailed the voicing to a "T". Sounded great with any guitar/pickups, exactly what I want for a clean to mild overdrive amp on the "clean"-channel alone! Tons of features and thoughtful design ideas, albeit a bit pricey...

 

I'd just really like to know what you thought of one, especially compared to all these other amps ! I'd be surprised if you didn't like 'em.

[WaterMan]

Always good to get your input, Caevan.

 

Have you A/B'd the Tone King with the Rambler or THD? It is a bit pricey, right up there with the Rambler. Perhaps if I can unload my Fuchs Overdrive Supreme (brand new mod -- great amp, just too loud for my needs) I'll pick one of these up.

 

 

Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite:

If I may butt-in here...

 

Waterman- and Myles, too- please try out a Tone King Meteor with the two-6V6 configuration. (They also offer 'em with EL84s.) These combos are easily the best "blackface Fender"-amps I've ever played through, better than any vintage Fenders I've checked out; their designer really nailed the voicing to a "T". Sounded great with any guitar/pickups, exactly what I want for a clean to mild overdrive amp on the "clean"-channel alone! Tons of features and thoughtful design ideas, albeit a bit pricey...

 

I'd just really like to know what you thought of one, especially compared to all these other amps ! I'd be surprised if you didn't like 'em.

[rsf1977]

Hey Myles, what are the differences in a boogie dual rect when using a matched 12aX7, matched 12aT7, or matched 12aU7 in the phase inverter?

 

Also which is usually preffered for the heavy metal genre. Thanks!

[myles_rose]

Originally posted by rsf1977:

Hey Myles, what are the differences in a boogie dual rect when using a matched 12aX7, matched 12aT7, or matched 12aU7 in the phase inverter?

 

Also which is usually preffered for the heavy metal genre. Thanks!

The most clean headroom is with an AU and the least is with an AX. AT is in the middle. BUT ... this is on most amps. The Mesa rectos do not respond as well as most other amps via the phase inverter as these amps have a balance of gain that is shifted totally toward front end gain rather than a more traditional balance of front end and output section gain and balance. That is one reason these amps are one dimensional and appeal to a specific tone requirement.

[rsf1977]

Also which is usually preffered for the heavy metal genre. Thanks! [/qb]

The most clean headroom is with an AU and the least is with an AX. AT is in the middle. BUT ... this is on most amps. The Mesa rectos do not respond as well as most other amps via the phase inverter as these amps have a balance of gain that is shifted totally toward front end gain rather than a more traditional balance of front end and output section gain and balance. That is one reason these amps are one dimensional and appeal to a specific tone requirement. [/QB]

 

So which tube performs better for heavy crushing metal tones? the 12AX7? I'm a little confused which to use... lol

[myles_rose]

12AX7's especially when used in the MGH kit:

 

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1737

 

These kits are also pretty agressive in even Fender Blackface and Silverface amps if you also use the supplied 12AX7 to replace the Fender 12AT7 in the PI position.

 

I am about a week or two behind though in building these kits.