Are keyboard players becoming a dying breed?

[Blue JC]

My phone is ringing off the hook. I've gotten four calls for the same date already today and it's not even 6:00 PM. I've been offered at least a dozen gigs today alone.

 

Two more local keyboard players are hanging it up - one is retiring from live playing and one is (gasp) switching to guitar only.

 

Both guys mentioned that they don't want to participate in the keyboard "arms race" anymore and it's just becoming too expensive to be a keyboard player.

 

The guy switching to guitar said (half-jokingly) that he can get a good Strat/Twin combo for $500 and make a good living so why should he consider an $8,000 Oasis? I know there's more to it than that but the premise is valid.

 

Maybe I'm insulated but I don't see young people lining up to become keyboard players. The guitar/bass and drum sections of my local music stores continue to expand at the expense of the shrinking keyboard department. They tell me that that kids just aren't buying keyboards (especially professional keyboards) anymore and they have to devote the floor space to what sells.

 

What are you folks seeing out there? Are keyboard players becoming a dying breed?

 

Best,

JC

[Sven Golly]

I'm just waiting until demand is so high that I can sell myself on eBay for $250k.

 

Seriously, though, here in Toronto we have fewer keyboardists doing live gigs simply because the money (on average) isn't sufficient, especially when compared to session work and the like.

 

Plus, hauling a whack of gear for a rate of $0.22/pound isn't a very attractive proposition.

 

I've been fortunate enough to get myself to a level where I can make a (reasonable) living doing this plus some intermittent I.T. work on the side. Lately I'm doing more and more session work, though...

 

As for young players, a lot of the younger players that I've met have been influenced by the "Nirvana factor"... keyboards just aren't thought of as an important element in the music. For those that are interested in keys, they have some pretty low-chops influences (see Dave Horne's .sig for one such example ).

[Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame]

Keyboard players in the sense that you mean are. As live musicians, most aren't exciting or easy to lug around. As studio musicians though, it seems keys are thriving. I can't name a recent album I've heard that doesn't have keys on it somewhere. Every local metal band I know wants me to do a keyboard intro for their album, and every rap/hip-hop group I know wants me to make 'beats' for em. No one has asked me to play live with them though, lol.

 

Guitar is indeed much cheaper, and way cooler. Really, what keyboardist is your average kid gonna look at and say 'ooh I wanna do that'. They all stand by the drums and shy away from the spotlight.

[Prague]

Yes, they are a dying breed. Keyboards can be just as cool as anything. It's the players that aren't cool.

[Triton76]

Seems the youngsters interested in kb's that I've met are into the cool sounds and not being a virtuoso so much. I'm the same way, I never had piano lessons. I like the fact I can be creative with the synth because I can invent my own sounds and try to use them in an interesting way. I did a lot of that before I could play well enough to be in bands. I have been told by some bands that they placed an ad for a kb player and only got one or two responses.

[Prague]

Consider that many posts here are actually concerned about a 40 lb keyboard.

 

That doesn't give me confidence that there are young players out there.

[soundscape]

Hmm, I'll look at this from another point of view. There are various magazines out there on music and technology. Well, keyboards are strongly associated with technology, so that should be cool, right?...

 

Except these generally provide get endless synth reviews, endless plug-in reviews, information on how to master your music, etc., etc... and absolutely nothing on theory, arrangement, or good grief, playing!

 

Now, I'm not blaming them 'cause they have to write stuff their readers care for or they won't sell--but it seems that's what their readers want. And so the question I think to ask is, why is that?

[GuitarPlayerFL]

Originally posted by Triton76:

Seems the youngsters interested in kb's that I've met are into the cool sounds and not being a virtuoso so much.

This explains why Keyboard Magazine changed from being primarily performance oriented in the 70s to being equipment oriented the past 20 years. Even the keyboardist in my band in the 80s lamented the fact that Keyboard Magazine had become basically an advertisement for keyboards as opposed to playing techniques.

 

Guitar Player Magazine and ESPECIALLY the British guitar magazines have a healthy dose of playing techniques in each issue. In particular, (the British) Guitar Techniques magazine comes with a CD, backing tracks, and transcriptions of popular and classic tunes.

 

Meanwhile, Keyboard Magazine has a transcription and the rest of the magazine is all about equipment. The recent Donald Fagen article is a nice surprise, and hopefully the magazine will follow through with more like it.

[Jazzwee]

Being in L.A., I have a different perspective. Many TV shows have customized music made for every episode. Movies too. These are being made typically by keyboardists who compose and sequence entire orchestras and parts on their computers.

 

This is an expansion from what we hear from our jingle buddy, Linwood. It's a good living to be made doing it. I don't know how many people do it but I know several people who do this and you see their work on regular sitcoms and such each week.

 

This type of work tends to fall on the keyboardist since a variety of sounds can be made by one person. Thus making it cost effective. For a young kid, this can be a cool career if you're big on composing and understand theory and improvisation (something jazz people typically do).

 

This is a very advanced skill as not only must you have the chops for piano, but have mixing skills, a general feel for every genre, absolute improvisational creativity, AND EXTREMELY GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF ARPEGGIATORS AND SEQUENCERS!

 

You can see these types of individuals float up forums specific to orchestral plugins (like Garritan, etc.).

 

Also, since keyboardists are able to create all musical parts and most instruments on their keyboard + computer, most keyboardists will gravitate to recording, except for the occasional jazz gig which is still mostly driven by the piano.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

Being in L.A., I have a different perspective. Many TV shows have customized music made for every episode. Movies too. These are being made typically by keyboardists who compose and sequence entire orchestras and parts on their computers.

This is true. Although I'm hearing more (low budget) TV shows with blatantly-cobbled-together-from-loops music.

 

This is a very advanced skill as not only must you have the chops for piano, but have mixing skills, a general feel for every genre, absolute improvisational creativity, AND EXTREMELY GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF ARPEGGIATORS AND SEQUENCERS!

 

EXACTLY!!! Sequencing is *NOT* some kind of super-easy cop out. To a professional level, it's hard.

[Prague]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

This is a very advanced skill as not only must you have the chops for piano, but have mixing skills, a general feel for every genre, absolute improvisational creativity, AND EXTREMELY GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF ARPEGGIATORS AND SEQUENCERS!

I couldn't care less if keyboardists knew how to use an arpeggiator. Anybody can learn them regardless of instrument.

 

Without the keyboard chops, though, I don't call them a keyboard player. That's why I don't refer to myself as one, yet I own and use more keyboards than many keyboard players out there.

 

Yes, keyboard players are becoming a dying breed.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Prague:

ithout the keyboard chops, though, I don't call them a keyboard player. That's why I don't refer to myself as one, yet I own and use more keyboards than many keyboard players out there.

It makes no difference to the state of music if arppegiator users aren't bothering to learn about chords/harmony?

 

OK. Let's imagine someone loses both their arms as a kid. Now they are able to control their computer in some way. They sequence everything. Are they worthy of respect or not?

 

(Besides all of this, sequencers don't have good keyboard chops? It's a lot quicker to sequence with good keyboard chops than not. Otherwise, why the hell do sequencers have keyboards at all?)

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

This is an expansion from what we hear from our jingle buddy, Linwood.

Our WHO?!?!? That's the funniest thing i've heard yet.

 

umm.. aghhh....

 

Hold everything...

 

I give you....

 

our very own.....

 

JINGLE BUDDY BELL!

 

(Just a little tune from a little guy making too much money and having too much fun. )

 

(sorry linwood )

[Prague]

Originally posted by soundscape:

OK. Let's imagine someone loses both their arms as a kid. Now they are able to control their computer in some way. They sequence everything. Are they worthy of respect or not?

Sure, but I wouldn't call them a keyboard player.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Prague:

Originally posted by soundscape:

OK. Let's imagine someone loses both their arms as a kid. Now they are able to control their computer in some way. They sequence everything. Are they worthy of respect or not?

Sure, but I wouldn't call them a keyboard player.

Nor would I. But I'd call them a musician.

 

In my view, the best way to promote keyboard playing is to have popular music (and I mean music that sells, not the style "pop" music here) feature prominent keyboard parts and sounds. (Of course, the chances of this not being sequenced is, well, zero.)

[soundscape]

[duplicate post]

[gangsu]

Do I need to start a new thread here? Instead of arguing the peculiarities of musicianship as a lost art, why not stop ... oh forGET it. Blahh!!! on both your houses.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by gangsu:

Do I need to start a new thread here? Instead of arguing the peculiarities of musicianship as a lost art, why not stop ... oh forGET it. Blahh!!! on both your houses.

Eh?

[gangsu]

yeah no kidding. I got carried away in some self-appointed outrage. The assumption that anyone can be labeled gets me every time. Should I delete my posts? Probably.

carry on.

[MidLifeCrisis]

Originally posted by Blue JC:

My phone is ringing off the hook. I've gotten four calls for the same date already today and it's not even 6:00 PM.

Is that a bad thing?

 

Being in demand is not a bad thing. Would you feel better if nobody wanted you for work?

 

Like you I have been getting numerous calls in the last 6 months. It has really increased since I got into the country circuit. Seems there are not many quality country keys players around.

 

To me it appears the demand is exceeding the supply. This is a good thing for those of us in the profession. We can get higher rates and be more selective about the gigs we take. I don't view this as keyboardist being a dying breed but a resurgence in the demand for us.

[Karurosu]

Well, i really think that kids got onto the guitar stuff for the "virtuosso" factor that they likely look on them

 

Well, I really im in last year of school, and deciding what to study, more likely Piano, and Synths, ya know

 

well, i dont really know anyone that has looked to a nice pianist or tecladist and sayd, wooooa i wanna do that

 

When i went to buy my RS-70, i was the only one looking for KyBO the other ones, were just doing anything with the CTKs series and ya know, everyone else was on the guitar section

 

I think, that they don't wanna do keyboard because it has more sacrifices to get averages, and a whole life time to get good, most of the ones i Know, just go to a month studying that

 

I really don't care about no one liking piano to play, but at least, the ones that like it, do it the way that meant to be do, other way it has no meaning

 

(i really think that i had gone to far on this, so im gonna close now, the fact is, keyboards are cool, but need a greater IQ ) nice

[Mr. Nightime]

There's not that many quality players in any of the genres. I have to turn down work so I can spend time with my wife. But, even if I did all the gigs, I would have a hard time making a living at it. That's why I work a day job. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

[BluesKeys]

It must be so,I too have had several inquiries over the last few weeks. I am already playing in 4 bands, a duo and solo work. I just thought it was something unique to this area.

[Les Mizzell]

Both guys mentioned that they don't want to participate in the keyboard "arms race" anymore and it's just becoming too expensive to be a keyboard player.

Arms race? You don't have to participate if you don't want to. My Hammond B3 sounds just as good today as it did when I bought it back in the 70s. I've spent less on tubes for it than my guitar playing friends have spent on strings in the last six months.

 

There's nothing that says you have to upgrade every single time a new keyboard comes out. The Kurzweil K2600 came out, uh, when? 1999? If you're good at programming it, there's still not much it won't do than any of the newer stuff does now, and then some.

 

If you make a *smart* purchasing decision when buying your main board, *and* learn how to actually use the thing, not just poke presets, you won't have to worry about every little thing that comes out each month.

[Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame]

All I know is keyboard players (hopefully I'm somewhat of an exeption, but probably not) are not cool, and no amount of staying inside and programming while snubbing social events isn't helping:p

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Dick Ward (MP Hall of Fame Wannabe):

All I know is keyboard players (hopefully I'm somewhat of an exeption, but probably not) are not cool, and no amount of staying inside and programming while snubbing social events isn't helping:p

They're cool if keyboard-based music (i.e., where sounds obviously played on a keyboard or to most people would come from a keyboard) is cool, which to the best of my knowledge it ceased to be at the end of the 80's when synthetic sounds (and sequencing) were denounced, only to be replaced by such (inferior) things as "DJ culture". Heck, in the 80's keytars were played.

[linwood]

My strat/twin combo was way more than that, not to mention the parker, taylor 914c, yamaha nylon..and don't get me started on harmonicas. Shucks, they're 300 a piece for off the shelf stuff. "It costs to be the boss." Too funny, Sue. That's just some tune I wrote for her one afternoon a couple weeks ago for a new cd she's doin'. She wanted an original that sounded like an old standard, so I wrote that chart for her. I didn't play that session. It took place out of town. That's a rough demo, but her vocal sure is nice. I'm lucky to be able to work with her so much. She's a doll. And the keyboard thing is alive and well here. Great players all over town doing it and I talk to many other keyboard guys all over the country that do what I do every week. I don't see it dieing at all.

[Jackson Maberry]

I still wanna be a keyboard player...

But i know what you mean, and it bugs me too. The keyboard is such an awesome instrument, in my opinion, and you just cant do some things on a guitar. We need to get people excited about the Ivories and Ebonies!

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by Prague:

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

This is a very advanced skill as not only must you have the chops for piano, but have mixing skills, a general feel for every genre, absolute improvisational creativity, AND EXTREMELY GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF ARPEGGIATORS AND SEQUENCERS!

I couldn't care less if keyboardists knew how to use an arpeggiator. Anybody can learn them regardless of instrument.

 

Without the keyboard chops, though, I don't call them a keyboard player. That's why I don't refer to myself as one, yet I own and use more keyboards than many keyboard players out there.

 

Yes, keyboard players are becoming a dying breed.

Not true. As I said, these musicians that I speak of doing movies and TV are no slouches. I'm talking about Emmy nominated types of people. They use arpeggiators to set a mood. It's part of the creativity required to fit it to a scene. For example, one scene may require a soft piano solo. The next scene may require trance or electronica type music. These types of music requires arpeggiation to handle the complex effects.

 

This is taking music beyond simple stage performance. If anything, aside from superior chops to switch gears with confidence from one genre to other, these guys are true composers.

 

Obviously this field is very competitive for the 'paying' jobs. There's lots of keyboardists doing this for student movies of course, which I'm sure doesn't pay. When it pays, the money is good. Our buddy Linwood has given as a sample of this.

 

The question is: Is this going to keep keyboardists around for a long time? I'm certainly planning on it. And of my two kids playing music, one's on piano and one's on guitar. So kids are still learning the instruments as usual.

 

There's a separate issue here that's beyond keyboardists, and that is live performances. As a rule, this is losing ground. So I don't think this is just keyboardists.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

The question is: Is this going to keep keyboardists around for a long time?

Yes: it keeps keyboardists employed and keeps up the demand for high quality music in movies/TV.

No: it's too much in the background to promote keyboard playing as cool, and orchestra sounds out of a Gigasampler rig aren't going to be associated with keyboard playing to the average person.

 

require trance or electronica type music. These types of music requires arpeggiation to handle the complex effects.

Quite... and let's not forget gating!

 

There's a separate issue here that's beyond keyboardists, and that is live performances. As a rule, this is losing ground. So I don't think this is just keyboardists.

It's certainly losing ground. What proportion of the population regularly attends live performances vs. listens to their music collection on their iPod (OK... or CD player)?