Rhodes Warriors

[fisheye]

Originally posted by learjeff:

Fisheye's first link sounds to me like it must be a pre-Mark Rhodes, but it's been a long time since I played one of those (and never owned one). Can anyone comment on that? I really dig that sound, and if I could have two Rhodes I'd want one of them to sound like that!

 

To me, it sounds more Wurlie-like than later Rhodes models.

 

Who was that, btw? Sounds like Herbie, but I can't find can't find it based on "lookin back".

Of course, I couldn't resist in posting some Dutch work. It's Henk Elkerbout recorded in 1974. I presume an early mark I.

Only the arranger/composer of the piece, Rogier van Otterloo, might be vaguely known internationally.

[meccajay]

yes Dafduk, Joe Sample!

 

Joe Sample, Joe Sample, Joe Sample ! ! ! !

 

For all unfamiliar, try to check out The Crusaders: Keep On, from 'Those Southern Nights' or the entire Images album! Great stuff!

[Nordude]

I like the dyno'ed sound of Russel Ferrante on the Yellowjackets debut album and Mirage A Trois. Top Secret, Pass It On, Priscilla, etcetera.

 

Slick, but so sweet!

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by Nordude:

I like the dyno'ed sound of Russel Ferrante on the Yellowjackets debut album and Mirage A Trois. Top Secret, Pass It On, Priscilla, etcetera.

 

Slick, but so sweet!

Thanks! I set that piano up.

JP former tech, Dyno My Piano

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by meccajay:

yes Dafduk, Joe Sample!

 

Joe Sample, Joe Sample, Joe Sample ! ! ! !

 

For all unfamiliar, try to check out The Crusaders: Keep On, from 'Those Southern Nights' or the entire Images album! Great stuff!

You've opened up a can o'worms, my friend. When Dream reads this he's going to go on and on and on about seeing Joe Sample in concert not too long ago.

 

Better get your beer cold and go to the store for a carton of cigarettes. It's gonna be a long night.

[David Loving]

Hey, Gas, nice avatar.

[Nordude]

Originally posted by jimmymio:

Originally posted by Nordude:

I like the dyno'ed sound of Russel Ferrante on the Yellowjackets debut album and Mirage A Trois. Top Secret, Pass It On, Priscilla, etcetera.

 

Slick, but so sweet!

Thanks! I set that piano up.

JP former tech, Dyno My Piano

Then you're my top engineer! Cool reply! Amazing that people so close to two of my favourite albums actually reply on this forum.

 

How can I get to this sound as good as possible? Are there any eq or effect "tricks" to get this sound? The better romplers have dyno presets, but they never have that Russell Ferrante vibe. And my Nord Electro has more mellow tones in it. Is a dyno preamp (Speakesy) the only way, or is there a workaround?

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by Nordude:

 

[How can I get to this sound as good as possible? Are there any eq or effect "tricks" to get this sound? The better romplers have dyno presets, but they never have that Russell Ferrante vibe. And my Nord Electro has more mellow tones in it. Is a dyno preamp (Speakesy) the only way, or is there a workaround? [/QB]

Good question? I'm sure I need remind no one here that even on a Rhodes, the player has an awful lot to do with the way the axe speaks.

Aside from Russel's hands, heart and soul, there are 2 components.

First is the way the instrument is set up mechanically. As I mentioned, I worked on his instrument at Dyno My Piano and we had our own way of doing things and it would take a pretty lengthy OT explanation to elaborate further.

Secondly, as you alluded to, is the electronics. Russel had our custom EQ which was designed to complement our mechanical "set up". This EQ is sometimes available on EBay but be aware that they are often 20+ years old and often problematic. I have never used a Speakeasy pre. It's quite possible that it borrowed heavily from the Dyno. It's also possible that it's an improvement.

You could always try to purchase a used Dyno but even then, it would need to be serviced by a Dyno tech since it probably hasn't been properly serviced in the past 20 years.

 

JP

[linwood]

I've got a nice dyno my...any idea on how I can get it serviced by a good tech? (hint,hint) I've also got an extra pre amp and tremelo. Ever feel like coming to Vegas for a weekend?

[circlesee]

Check out Cedar Walton's rhodes solos w/ Milt Jackson (Detour Ahead and Opus De Funk). CTI albums: Sunflower and Detour Ahead....killer.

[JeffLearman]

Hey Linwood, I'll be in Vegas over Thanksgiving -- you playing anywyere? My wife & her sister have tickets to Circque du Soleil, which I rate right up there with Icecapades (not in terms of artistic merit, just in terms of my limited enjoyment) and I'm sure I could beg off!

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by daviel:

Hey, Gas, nice avatar.

Thank you Dave.

 

If you ever get to DC, there's a neat jazz club in Georgetown called Blues Alley. That's where this picture came from.

 

CLONK HERE

 

I heard Maynard Ferguson there not too many years ago.

 

My ears are still ringing.

[linwood]

Hey Linwood, I'll be in Vegas over Thanksgiving -- you playing anywyere?

Nope.. I don't play to many gigs any more. Just studio work. I'll be here. If you have time, let's get together. McCartney's in town that weekend. You can get tickets on line if ya want. I'm going. A really good 'Circ" show to see is "O".

 

gimme a call when you get here @702-435-9008 or e me

linwood@bellmusicproductions.com

[The Real MC]

Joe Sample is THE MAN on Rhodes. I have a VHS of The Crusaders in concert, he rips on a Rhodes. That rhythm section is dangerous!

 

The early Rhodes had wood supports for the harp assembly which gave them a nice bark to the tone. Later Rhodes had extruded aluminum supports which really mellowed the tone. Every Rhodes I played in a store, I'll pop the cover and it's true every time. I used to own an early Fender Rhodes with wood harp support and neophrene hammers. Tried a ANTIQUE silver sparkle top Fender Rhodes with wood felt hammers and didn't like the sound, but the hammers were really worn.

 

The Yamaha P90 has a very authentic Rhodes sound for fusion.

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by The Real MC:

The Yamaha P90 has a very authentic Rhodes sound for fusion.

I hate to be a broken record, but the way it velocity-switches is not authentic at all. Not that it's alone in that regard, there are plenty of examples to be found.

[DafDuc]

Joe had some extra sparkle going on on his Rhodes - dunno if it was a preamp, or a wah pedal wide open, or what. I used to approximate the sound by taking my Mutron Bi-phase and defeating the lfo, but it still wasn't bright enough. Very cool sound.

[The Real MC]

He used a STAGE model, not the suitcase with the preamp/tremolo. If you ever watched him play (plenty of prime views in my concert VHS), he SLAMS the thing. That's how he got his sound.

 

My Fender Rhodes had a mushy action, it hurt my hands to play the thing. That's why I got rid of it. I've played some Rhodes that had REAL nice action. Turns out those had solid wood keys, while my piano had hollow keyshells on wooden actuators. Ugh, no wonder it hurt to play my old one. If I wanted a Rhodes today, I'd have to play it in person I'd never buy one unseen.

[meccajay]

Originally posted by DafDuc:

Joe had some extra sparkle going on on his Rhodes - dunno if it was a preamp, or a wah pedal wide open, or what. I used to approximate the sound by taking my Mutron Bi-phase and defeating the lfo, but it still wasn't bright enough. Very cool sound.

Joe Sample's actual Rhodes was kind of a jazz fusion legend.

I remember reading a George Duke interview, and George mentioned that he used to go borrow Joe's rhodes for some of his own recordings.

Some of that special Joe Sample sound was in the piano itself.

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by The Real MC:

The early Rhodes had wood supports for the harp assembly which gave them a nice bark to the tone. Later Rhodes had extruded aluminum supports which really mellowed the tone. Every Rhodes I played in a store, I'll pop the cover and it's true every time.

IMHO you've got it half right. It may be true that the earlier pianos w/ the wooden (actually bird's eye maple) harp supports may have had more bite to them but there were a lot of factors in play and I don't think it has all that much to do w/ the supports themselves. It depends on the vintage, but what these pre-modular Rhodes also had were different tone bars, tines, larger pickup magnets all of which contributed to the "bark" which you describe.

 

Jp, former tech, Dyno My Piano

[DafDuc]

Originally posted by meccajay:

I remember reading a George Duke interview, and George mentioned that he used to go borrow Joe's rhodes for some of his own recordings.

Some of that special Joe Sample sound was in the piano itself.

That's so funny - I always figured there was some trick because both Duke and Sample had that sound. This possibility just never crossed my mind, LOL...

[rhodes_sine]

Hmm, Not 100% sure if its a Rhodes being played, certainly sounds a lot like it, but "Blues for Alexandra" by Romano Mussolini is an amazing bit of playing.

 

Also "No caminho do bem" on the City of God soundtrack. Just a great sound, nothing too fancy, and really chilled out. Great clav on it too.

[realbiscuit]

I would love to find someone who is also aware of the album Affinity with Bill Evans and Toots Thielmans. I'm sure many are but I have never heard anyone rave about Bill's playing, which is second to no one, and the clean sound of his Rhodes. I love pedal effects, Dyno, vibrato and all that stuff. But Bill plays with a perfectly clean and clear tone that makes you wonder, man what was his set up. Well, I wrote the engineer on the album, Frank Laico (86 yrs. old) and he responded with this comment:

Rhodes>console>eq>echo. Now hopfully someone will join me in my standing ovation of this performance. Check out the cut Jesus' last ballad. If I could only conceive of such ideas I wouldn't feel so inadequate.

[realbiscuit]

j

[linwood]

I would love to find someone who is also aware of the album Affinity with Bill Evans and Toots Thielmans.

One of my all time favorites. I've got it on vinyl and cd. Rhodes and chromatic harmonica are two voices that I really relate to, for some reason, and to hear Bill and Toots together is a real treat. That rhodes does sound fantastic and I'm sure a lot of he sound has to do with the fingers that are touching it as well as the eq. Classic recording.

[realbiscuit]

Good point. His touch is amazing. So glad to hear from another lover of that recording. I grew up with it. Part of me.

[Jazz+]

Hey Linwood,

 

Thanks again for the Hancock clip, it brings back memories. That is Hancock' Rhodes solo on Heitor Villa-Lobos's "Little Train of the Caipira" on George Benson's CTI album "White Rabbit" (1971). You wouldn't happen to know of a transcription of that solo, would you?

[J_tour]

Yeah, it would take about 20 minutes and a pair of headphones to make a transcription of that one. But if you feel like paying for one, there *is* a full transcription available from Victor Music. We get them when we travel to Japan, but unfortunately I don't have a scanner, or else I'd help you out to aid with your ear training.

 

Great solo, though -- great album, actually.

[Dreamer]

Speaking of Rhodes solo's, anyone remembers the tasty intro and also the solo in the Mark-Almond medley "New York State of Mind/Return to the city"?

I have that song on LP, but can't seem to be able to find a CD. Amazon UK has an anthology ("The best of Mark-Almond" -import), but is "currently unavailable".

The solo was not mind-boggling as the Herbie's one, but was very well laid out, with a few good licks...

[Analogaddict]

Originally posted by linwood:

I would love to find someone who is also aware of the album Affinity with Bill Evans and Toots Thielmans.

One of my all time favorites. I've got it on vinyl and cd. Rhodes and chromatic harmonica are two voices that I really relate to, for some reason, and to hear Bill and Toots together is a real treat. That rhodes does sound fantastic and I'm sure a lot of he sound has to do with the fingers that are touching it as well as the eq. Classic recording.

One of my all-time favorites! I played 'Tomato Kiss' a lot when I went to music school. There's some nice Rhodes playing on 'From Left To Right' as well as 'The Bill Evans Album', but 'Affinity' is my favorite.

 

I'm amazed at the variety of Rhodes sounds and stylings; the fact that we discuss Rhodes playing, setup and sounds almost 40 years since the Rhodes pianos started making a mark is truly amazing.

 

While we're on the subject, I recently discovered the Voodoo Lab analog chorus (which is supposed to be a CE-1 clone), and I was really impressed. If you're shopping for a chorus pedal, don't miss this one!

 

edit: You can here me playing my Stage 88 through a Voodo Lab analog chorus and a Mad Professor tube amp here!

[daBowsa]

Originally posted by J_tour:

Yeah, it would take about 20 minutes and a pair of headphones to make a transcription of that one.

 

Wow, that's fast! Are you a jazz player?

 

It could take me a week solid (or more) to transcribe that solo. And another one to get the LH chords.

 

Originally posted by Nordude:

How can I get to this sound as good as possible? Are there any eq or effect "tricks" to get this sound? The better romplers have dyno presets, but they never have that Russell Ferrante vibe. And my Nord Electro has more mellow tones in it. Is a dyno preamp (Speakesy) the only way, or is there a workaround?

Nordude, have you ever listened to the .mp3's on this site ? Down at the bottom they've got an Electro Organ, Electro Rhodes and real Mark I recorded with and without Speakeasy's Dyno Stage Box preamp.

 

Worth a listen!