kb monitors ... again!

[JeffLearman]

Someone broke into my van Thursday night. They broke the rear driver's side window and grabbed what they could reach and took off. The good news is, all they could reach was my EV Entertainer powered mixer -- a unit with nice features but noisy mixer and wimpy power since day one back in 1982 or so, and my EV 12" floor monitors -- units that go for $100 each on ebay when you can find them. Total street value (not hot): probably $250. Hot, what, maybe $50 on a good day? I hope he hurt his back in the bargain.

 

Untouched, a few feet further up, were my gear bags, MR76 synth, and 1965 Fender Jazzmaster (repainted and reissue neck, so not a collector's item, but a sweet little axe). I'd almost left my Martin HD28 in the van the night before but remembered and went back and got it. Hate to have to replace that baby, which I bought new in '81 or '82.

 

So now I need a new monitor rig. I play in small venues where they would serve as my mains as well (places where they don't mike the guitar amps either).

 

My current prime candidate is a pair of JBL JRX112M powered monitors and a small inexpensive line mixer. The JBLs are $560 a pair. 12" speakers are sufficient for me, though I'd recommend 15" for anyone who wants to push out any real bass. And I like the flexibility of floor monitor format, assuming I can set them on end for venues or on the floor angled up for studio/practice room use. I often put them on end on barstools, behind me.

 

But I'm interested to hear if anyone thinks I should seriously consider something else.

 

I played my gear though Jim's rig, which is a pair of Motion Sound amps -- one bigger, one smaller. Not only did it sound great, but he can move them both in one trip: small sitting on big, and big has casters. But the cost is higher, and there's a bit less flexibility on placement. Still, I'm tempted.

 

Anything else I should consider? As you can see, the budget isn't vast. But it's not strictly limited, and I might be able to lobby for emergency relief funds if the benefits were high enough. (I'd love to try those Bose PAS, but I'd need two, and I think it would be more of a hassle to move & set up. And $3400 is way too much!)

 

Thanks.

[gangsu]

fisheye says good things about an acoustic guitar amp, Schertler. He demands a lot from his gear, I'd follow that lead if possible. Actually, it may even have been billed as a keyboard amp, I kind of forget now.

 

And do you remember a guy who posted about his own speaker company a while back? I don't recall if anybody took him up on his offer to give his stuff a road test... ?

 

It's just surprising to look off the beaten track, if you've got time. Not that I've heard of the JRX112M's!!

 

That sucks getting robbed. What a violation. It's happened to me too. Somebody walked into house after house on my street, grabbing purses in the middle of the day.

[Jazz+]

POWERED SPEAKERS:

 

EV SXa360 ($899 each)

http://www.soundcorp.com.au/assets/ev_sx300.jpg

http://www.electrovoice.com

12 " LF driver woofer

2" HF driver

60hz-18khz at -10db

350 watt RMS LF power amplifier

150 watt RMS HF power amplifier

126 spl

129 dB maximum output capability

23.1" x 16.9" x 12.3"

36 lbs.

$897

 

JBL EON15 g@

http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2000/EON15.jpg

http://www.jblpro.com/eong2/eon15g2/eon_specs.html

15" LF driver

2" HF driver

39 Hz - 18 kHz (-10 dB)

300 watts LF power amp

100 watts HF power amp

129 dB max output

27 in x 17 in x 17.5 in.

46 lbs.

$600

 

Yorkville NX550P http://www.yorkville.com/images/products/sm_nx350.jpg

http://www.yorkville.com/products_main.asp?cat=22&id=257&type=29&show=

2-Way Bi-Amplified Active

450-watt LF amplifier

100-watt HF amplifier

12 B&C woofer, 1 Compression driver

45Hz to 18kHz frequency response

124dB peak SPL output

13.25 x 16.5 x 27.25 x 8

Treble/Bass EQ

47 lbs.

$699

 

Mackie SRM450 http://www.midweststereo.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/macsrm450-l.jpg

http://www.mackie.com/products/srm450/index.html

12" woofer two-way powered system

1.75" HF driver

45hz-20khz at -10 db

300 watt LF power amplifier

100 watt HF power amplifier

127 dB maximum output capability

26 x 15.4" x 14.8"

"Contour" (Loudness switch), "Low Cut" switch

51 lbs

$650

 

FBTMaxX 4A http://www.fbt.it/_rtimage/maxx4sm2.jpg

http://www.fbt.it//sito/Inglese/pae/speaker/FBTMaxX/FBTMaxX-4A/index.asp

12" B&C woofer, two-way powered system

1" B&C high frequency driver

50hz-20khz at -6db

300 watt LF power amplifier

100 watt HF power amplifier

123 dB maximum output capability

25.3" x 16.25" x 13.2"

Treble/Mid/Bass EQ

35.2 lbs

$600

 

EV SXa100+ http://images.misupply.com/Products/thumbs/EV/sxa1.jpg

http://www.electrovoice.com

12 " woofer, two-way powered system

1" HF driver

50hz-20khz at -10db

150 watt RMS LF power amplifier

50 watt RMS HF power amplifier

124 dB maximum output capability

23.1" x 16.9" x 12.3"

Requires 2 plastic feet brackets to use as a wedge monitor

2 band EQ

43 lbs.

$499

[Jazz+]

POWERED 10 INCH SPEAKERS:

 

Mackie SRM 350 http://www.mackie.com/products/srm350/images/srm350_i.gif

http://www.mackie.com/products/srm350/index.html

2-Way Bi-Amplified Active

165-watts RMS LF amplifier

30-watts RMS HF amplifier

10 Rockridge woofer, 1 B&C Compression driver

121dB peak SPL output

61Hz to 22kHz frequency response @ -10dB

20.75" x 13.10" x 12.25"

32 lbs., plastic cabinet

$499

FBT MaxX 2A http://www.fbt.it/_rtimage/MaxX2sm3.jpg

http://www.fbt.it//sito/Inglese/pae/speaker/FBTMaxX/FBTMaxX-2A/index.asp

2-Way Bi-Amplified Active

200-watts RMS LF amplifier

50-watts RMS HF amplifier

10 B&C woofer, 1 B&C high frequency Compression driver

50Hz to 20kHz frequency response @ -6dB

121dB peak SPL output

22" x 14" x 12.28"

3 band EQ

28.6 lbs.

$499

Yorkville E160P http://www.musicalinstruments.com/images/Yorkville/Speakers/E160Pd.jpg

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?cat=2&id=9&type=29&show=Specifications

2-Way Bi-Amplified Active

160-watts RMS LF amplifier

30-watts RMS HF amplifier

10 B&C woofer, 1 Compression driver

50Hz to 18kHz frequency response +/- 3db

122dB peak SPL output

17.5" x 16" x 12.9" x 12.9

45 lbs., 3/4 inch 7-ply Spruce cabinet

$499

JBL EON10 G2 http://img.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/thumbnail/600202.t.jpg

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/mi/EON10G2.pdf

2-Way Bi-Amplified Active

125 -watts RMS LF amplifier

50-watts RMS HF amplifier

10 woofer, 1 Compression driver

65Hz to 18kHz frequency response @ -10dB

117dB peak SPL output

19.4" x 14" x 12/1"

23 lbs.

$499

KV2 Audio EX10 ($1,799 list price) http://www.kv2audio.com/images/thumbs/ex_10_thumb.jpg

http://www.kv2audio.com/ex_10.html

2-Way Bi-Amplified Active

450-watt LF amplifier and 50-watt HF amplifier

10 woofer, 1 Compression driver

-3dB response 65Hz -18KHz

-10dB response 50Hz - 22KHz

Max SPL long-term 126dB

Max SPL Peak 129dB

48.4 lbs., 15 mm birch cabinet

20" tall

$1200

[BluesKeys]

Quote LearJeff

I played my gear though Jim's rig, which is a pair of Motion Sound amps -- one bigger, one smaller. Not only did it sound great, but he can move them both in one trip: small sitting on big, and big has casters. But the cost is higher, and there's a bit less flexibility on placement. Still, I'm tempted

--------------------------------------------------

 

Jeff, man what a bummer, sorry to hear about your loses. Don't you hate it when people break out a window and it cost as much to replace that as the stuff they steal.

 

BTW, what you played through was my Roland KC500 and KC300 which you can find on ebay for $300-$350 and $200- $250 on a regular basis.

 

If I didn't have them though I would buy the Carvin PM15A ($699 pr)and small mixer. Yea I know they are 15" but they make an organ growl.

[hardbop200]

LearJeff,

 

Speaking of the Motion Sound stuff, I recently bought a KT-80, and color me impressed. I got tired of the sound of a 15" speaker not reproducing the mids as well as I wanted, and the 12" on the MS really nailed it. Plus the tube front-end on the KT-80 was killer on my Motif Rack piano. I'm going to buy a second one for stereo operation.

[Dave Horne]

Learjeff, sorry to hear someone broke into your car. I can't add any thoughts regarding equipment, though I hope you're insured either through your car insurance, home\renter's insurance or equipment insurance. A couple weeks ago I kept my equipment in the car over night but took the car off the street and parked it behind my house. I still had concerns of someone breaking in or stealing the car outright. We had a 2002 van stolen from us last year and the car insurance only paid 250 Euros for the stuff inside the car - a bike, maps, etc.

 

I have my name spray painted on everything except my newest piece of equipment, the P250 and its flight case. I misplaced the stencil with my name and never got around to adding my name to the new stuff. This is just the incentive I need.

 

Sorry again to hear about the theft. There's nothing worse than having something stolen from you.

[ITGITC]

Jeff,

 

I'm bummed that you got ripped off.

 

I read your post this morning but have been too busy to respond.

 

And frankly I've got nothing to add. I'm just very sorry that this happened.

 

Tom

[fisheye]

Originally posted by gangsu:

fisheye says good things about an acoustic guitar amp, Schertler. He demands a lot from his gear, I'd follow that lead if possible. Actually, it may even have been billed as a keyboard amp, I kind of forget now.

Hi there all. Sue asked me to add a little comment. I do like my small Schertler indeed. Might be too small for your needs (the woover is only 6 inch). Certainly better than those plastic ones posted above. And nice features, like mic in with phantom power and di out. There are bigger versions as well.

The Schertlers are best used for acoustic amplification though (which is what I do most with it).

 

I played with the Bose pas systems two times, and it didn't impress. Good in spreading the sound, but they didn't sound like an expensive system. I had to turn them down to save my ears, when I played my P80 through it. The bass player hated it too.

Sure they sound better then a system of a couple of hundred bugs, but they don't compete with 3000 dollar systems.

Bose had placed them for free in a rehearsal room, where they replaced a very cheap PA; typical Bose strategy.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by fisheye:

...they sound better then a system of a couple of hundred bugs, but they don't compete with 3000 dollar systems.

The last system I used that was a couple of hundred bugs sounded... well, icky.

[JeffLearman]

LOL

 

Tom, don't feel bad for me. I'd rather have some old gear ripped off than snip off the top of my finger any day!

 

Dave, I always carry high deductibles -- IMHO, the purpose of insurance is to protect me from expenses I can't afford. Fixing the glass plus the value of the gear weren't enough over the deductible to make it worthwhile to file a claim, and it's an expense I can absorb without changing my lifestyle (other than skipping a couple blues jams).

 

Everyone, thanks for the input. Thanks especially to Jazz for posting all those images & specs, certainly helps. BTW, in a powered speaker, it's the loudness that matters, not the watts. All those except maybe the 121dB units are loud enough, but I doubt the 10"ers would sound beefy enough. You must really like the SXa360's, given the high price.

 

I'm familiar with Schertler pickups but haven't ever heard their amps -- but I bet they're good. And thanks for the correction about the Rolands, Jim.

[ITGITC]

I just bought a pair of these for the band. I think they would be good for you, Jeff.

 

http://steinman.mesls.org/stereo/J%20Kalinoski%20Loudspeakers%20066.jpg

 

 

BTW, in a powered speaker, it's the color that matters, not the watts.

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?: I just bought a pair of these for the band.

They do kind of look like bean pots. Good call.

 

Thanks, fisheye! Just wondering how you position that amp. And what a pair of them would cost. And how they could possibly beat my Klipsch for natural sound.

[JeffLearman]

WOW, I want some of THOSE!

 

Um, what the heck are they really?

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by learjeff:

WOW, I want some of THOSE!

 

Um, what the heck are they really?

Learjeff, you a classy guy.

 

I dunno what they are. I Googled "Big-assed Blue Speakers" and found 'em. I think they're some esoteric home stereo setup that only doctors, lawyers, and service station owners can afford.

 

It seems that all my life I've seen guys who make these funny speakers. Strange, exotic designs. They want you to think that because they're unusual, they are worth the $50,000 apiece they're asking for them. It's very funny to me.

 

It's funny because most of the guys who can afford them don't know squat about audio to begin with. They just came into a bunch of money and want to show off to friends and lovers. They go to bars and use pickup lines like: "Hey baby don'tcha wanna come back to my place and listen to my big, blue speakers that look like (Refried) Bean pots..." (or something).

 

Frankly though, if Steve Jobs had his way we would all be listening - 100% of the time - through a variation of his iPods.

 

Of course, we don't live in an area where we HAVE to use mass transit, but I feel sure that there are lots of folks who are glad that some people have changed from carrying big boomboxes to using iPods... or is that not really what's happening?

 

So Jeff... what do you think you'll end up doing about replacing your speakers?

[DafDuc]

Hey, no one mentioned the Peavey self-powered PA speakers. Similar to the rest, but 3 semi-independent inputs, so you don't need a mixer unless you want to play with EQ, send fx, or need more than 3 inputs.

 

I bought a blem from Zzounds (or was it 123?) a whgile ago, haven't put it to use yet, but it's nice and portable.

 

Daf

[JeffLearman]

Still thinking. Deciding whether it's better to ask permission or forgiveness (as married guys know). Wondering how different the sound is compared to the price (nobody seems to have much good to say about the JBL monitors, and they're half the price of just about anything else -- and they sounded pretty good to me when I was considering getting a pair a year ago).

 

I think I'm going to have to bring my keyboard to the Loft and try a few options and see how they sound. And if I do that, I'll be buying them from the Loft (their prices match on-line prices anyway, but that rules out used gear, which I'd otherwise consider).

[JeffLearman]

Thing is, when I've cut corners, I've usually regretted it later. When I've paid twice as much for better gear, I've never regretted it.

 

But that downstairs bathroom still needs remodelling -- I mean REALLY needs it, there's no floor, no drywall, no fixtures, no ceiling ...

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

Originally posted by learjeff:

[qb] WOW, I want some of THOSE!

 

 

I dunno what they are. I Googled "Big-assed Blue Speakers" and found 'em. I think they're some esoteric home stereo setup that only doctors, lawyers, and service station owners can afford.

 

Only divorced doctors etc. No wife would ever let these things in the door.

 

I've seen some speakers that look a bit like that in Frankfurt airport. Not being used - in a display case.

[fisheye]

Originally posted by gangsu:

Just wondering how you position that amp. And what a pair of them would cost. And how they could possibly beat my Klipsch for natural sound.

I often put it on a bar stool. It's about the right height for the applications. I should really have two of them, that would improve the spread... One day...

Biggest fight is the feedback (I amplify acoustic piano's with a crown pzm mic.)

 

I have a little gas for a custom made speaker in a round box that a bassist I know makes. He makes it round, so it's stiffer with less weight.

[JeffLearman]

Well, I ended up getting a Yamaha EMX5000 powered mixer and a pair of JBL JRX112M 12" monitors. If I'd have been able to audition the EV SXa100+ speakers, I might have gone that way. Most of the other 12" solutions ended up being a bit more than I was planning on spending. Total cost was a little over $1200, at Guitar Center. Perhaps I could have dickered it down $50 or so, but I didn't bother.

 

The EMX5000 is quite a bit more amp & mixer than I need, but I've rarely been burned by getting a bit more than necessary.

 

I believe that powered monitors would probably sound better, but I'm sure I'll be quite happy with the sound of the JBL monitors. I'll let you know how it works out.

[ITGITC]

http://media.zzounds.com/media/fit,325by400/quality,85/brand,zzounds/EMX5000-12-95e3d3ada52301c6ed6dde354a0523a7.jpg

 

Yamaha EMX5000-12 12-Channel Powered Mixer with Effects

 

 

http://media.zzounds.com/media/fit,325by400/quality,85/brand,zzounds/112M-2a7b3425d3d42473b171103c0008ad15.jpghttp://media.zzounds.com/media/fit,325by400/quality,85/brand,zzounds/112M-2a7b3425d3d42473b171103c0008ad15.jpg

 

 

JBL JRX112M Monitor

 

Schweeeeeet

[JeffLearman]

Yeah, but they sure won't make anyone's bowels move like your 15" EONs! (Maybe that's a good thing?)

[Mr. Nightime]

Last time I heard an EON, A friend's General Music was running through it. No Bass, No Highs, and Midrange that would cut your head off! Of course, it could be the General Music board.

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by Mr. Nightime:

Last time I heard an EON, A friend's General Music was running through it. No Bass, No Highs, and Midrange that would cut your head off! Of course, it could be the General Music board.

Could it have been the first generation of Eons? They were notoriously underpowered and just didn't sound good. JBL revamped them and there is no lookin' back.

JP

[Mr. Nightime]

That's possible. A band I filled in with for a while had a pair of them for PA that sounded pretty good. The Bass player went through the PA as well, and they had no problem with the sound.

[BluesKeys]

Jeff congrats on your purchase. I know loosing your stuff was a pain, but now you got GAIN, baby. I can't wait to hear it and I bet you are ready to bust them out.

 

Mebane Wednesday, I think Lynn and I might stroke a tune between sets.