Trent Lott thread #2- A Great Opportunity For Forgiveness.

[Nawledge]

I've watched his interview on bet several times, and of course all of the news stations are repeating parts of it over and over. As a black man living in america I have experienced alot of racism, subtle and overt. I live in los angeles and for me racism has never been a southern thing its always been an american thing. I believe that what people do in the confines of their own hearts, is their business, in other words if you don't like blacks, whites, latinos, indians, asians or martians thats your perogative as far as i'm concerned, but when hate becomes institutionalized I have zero tolerance for it. It should not be able to touch me at my job, on my way home, or determine whether I have a job or where my home is. but I think the american people have a unique and great opportunity to really strike a blow against hate by showing Trent Lott forgiveness. I don't know if he is serious or not about being sorry for the things that he's done, but the responsibility of forgiveness falls on our shoulders, not his.. I personaly don't believe he has changed, but if we take the first step and forgive him, it may create actual change within him, and then wouldn't that be something, Trent Lott on the side of good trying to make things better. I think its worth a shot. In the end if he didn't change his ways so be it it will all come back to him anyway.

[Hippie]

Well, forgivness is in the likeness of Jesus but,...although a bit harsh, (as he said the comments at a party and not in a professional capacity) tossing him out would send a strong signal that Americans are serious about the issue of racism. For me, the most disturbing thing is certain members of the opposing party are requesting Lott to step down not for moral reasons but for political gain. Matt

[henryrobinett]

I must tell you I've been too busy to have seen the BET interview or yet any rebroadcasts of snippets. But I did read a small portion from the CNN website. I think it may be a great opportunity to show forgiveness (said the lamb to the hungry wolf). The Indians signed many treaties with men with forked tongues. But I agree. I'd rather err on the side of forgiveness. But I've always been cautious. Personally if someone has done me in, historicaly they don't get a second chance. And if a second certainly never a third. I'm a hard ass like that. I have never liked Lott, unless it was Ronnie Lott. I've always thought he was an asshole. But even some assholes need redemption.

[Gabriel E.]

While this may sound cruel, I believe there is too much emphasis on forgiveness in our culture. I live in a heavily Catholic area and it's a word that has come up a lot - especially in regards to diddling priests. In Catholocism, forgiveness is easily obtained: simply ask God for it and you're absolved. A copout if you ask me. In Judaisim, in order to ask forgiveness one needs to confront the person whom you've wronged (not God) and tell them you're sorry three times. This is only after making ammends. I'm not saying that Judaism is the way to go. But I think that in some instances it deals with cause and effect a little better - before you can be forgiven, you have to try to fix your fuckup. I don't believe Lott is worthy of forgiveness at this time because I don't think he's really sorry. He still seems to be trying to figure out why so many people are upset. He's still coming to terms with the gravity of his mistake and is a long way from fixing it. Simply saying you're sorry doesn't cut it. I think a prime example of someone who was deserving of forgiveness is George Wallace (also a former segregationist). He apologized personally to several prominent black leaders. He prayed in public with Jesse Jackson and asked for forgiveness only AFTER publicly explaining how and who he had wronged and showing contrition for it.

[Rick K.]

Great observation, Nawledge! Forgiveness isn't a weakness nor a scapegoat for screwing up. We all are human and make mistakes. He was simply talking without all the facts like all politicians do. Now he's being held accountable for it. Forgive the man. Rick

[RobT]

Amen.

[henryrobinett]

Gabriel E. I'm with you too!. I guess I'm with everybody today. :D I'm certainly no Catholic nor Christian. I think we have to atone for our own sins. It's not really what Lott said, it's what he didn't say. What he said is merely the tip of an iceberg. Maybe he can now start to see who he he really is.

[tnb]

I think Trent Lott has been in a position to help a lot of people and he didn't. Instead he has consistantly furthered his own agenda. He is not a drunk redneck sitting in the back of a pickup truck, he is a United States senator. "With great power come great responsibility". I think he is who he is and I don't think he has any plans on changing. His statements only address the fact that he is willing to say anything to keep his gig. My only hope is that you can, in fact, teach some old dogs (the rest of the senate)some new tricks. As far a forgiveness goes, no way.

[rog951]

When I first heard/saw Lott's comments at Strom Thurmon's party, I thought "what's the big deal?" It seemed like a funny (for a politician) thing to say to somebody at a party. You know, "we shoulda elected YOU president" Hahaha. Even after hearing about Thurmon's presidential platform, I gave Lott the benefit of the doubt because it didn't make sense that he could've been thinking at all about the specifics of the platform when he made that comment. Then, things started getting weird to me. I expected him to just come out and say "oh shit, I didn't mean THAT; I was just fucking with Strommie and I'm really, really sorry if anyone was offended." But, it seems to me his apologies have been worded such that maybe he did make the statements with all that bad stuff in mind. For me, it's a lot easier to forgive stupidity than racism, and it's seeming more and more to me like the man harbors racist views. I didn't get to see anything from the BET interview yet, but if it was just more of the same well-rehearsed schmoozola, I'm leaning toward at least stripping him of his majority leader status. Plus, it'd be a great chance for the republican party to distance itself from its elitist image...

[Wow]

Lott has to go. I think what he did was immoral, but to see him squirm like that on BET just made me sick. He was totally ass kissing. I want some feedback here please. I saw jesse jackson on Fox last night(yes,he was on fox), Gretta asked jesse what trent could do to help the black people. I was expecting him to say something like,"help the young blacks in the big cities with their failing schools". Something in this area. Do you know what his answer was? He wanted Lott to block the Presidents judges. Is this political B.S. or am I losing my mind. He basically asked for one branch of government(legislative) to manipulate a second branch of government(Judicial). The three branches of Gov. are set up this way for a reason. Good ol' checks and balances. Passing a school voucher program would help the black kids that cant get a decent education. Does he ask for this? NO, in fact jesse jackson is 100% against this. Why would you be against this when we know for a fact that the current schools are NOT getting the job done? what he said(jackson) shows me that he is using this for political gain.

[E-money]

I'm not a black man, nor a Mississippian, so the issue for me is not forgiveness. To me, the issue is accountability. He made an ignorant statement, and is now back-peddaling trying to save his position. He claims he supports affirmative action, but does his voting record show this? The problem I have is that he shouldn't be reelected for his mistake, but he probably will be.

[BNC]

Could someone please post his EXACT words? I'll I can find on the web is commentary garbage. I think if he said "we would be better off if thurmound had been elected so that there would still be segregation", then he should resign. If he said "we would be better off if Thuround had been elected", then he was just complimenting an old man on his 100th birthday and the controversy is just a creation of a bunch of people who jump to conclusions and take thing out of context. Lott's words pealse. thkx

[RobT]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b]Passing a school voucher program would help the black kids that cant get a decent education. Does he ask for this? NO, in fact jesse jackson is 100% against this. Why would you be against this when we know for a fact that the current schools are NOT getting the job done? what he said(jackson) shows me that he is using this for political gain.[/b][/quote]Because the NEA (National Education Association)is the biggest teacher's union/education policy setter in America and one of the largest contributors to the Democratic and what is seen as liberal causes in the country. That would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. My mom was teacher for years. Some of the crap they had to put up with was insane in the membrane. As they always say. [i][b]If your gonna follow politics ya gotta follow the money ...[/b][/i]

[S_Gould]

Whether he stays in his leadership position or not, the sad thing is the reaction of his party. They (with only 1 or 2 exceptions) are saying that this whole thing is no big deal and shouldn't affect his ability to lead the majority party in the Senate. Are they really that out of touch with the people they supposedly represent? Or perhaps they're just so cynical that they calculate they don't need the confidence of this country's minorities in order to accomplish their goals. It doesn't help that the Democrats are trying to make political hay out of the situation. It just goes to show what a poor opinion our politicians have of the American populace. Scott

[Dogfur]

Lott will sell us all down the river if you let him - the Republican agenda is to move money from working people to the elite - Lott's current antics are simply the wild thrashings of a drowning man, thrown of the evil ship $$ Bu$h as this administration recognizes his liability for attaching "Racist" to their corporate elitist agenda. There is no blame, or forgiveness, just strategy.

[Franknputer]

[quote]Originally posted by Watchout where that Dogfur goes...: [b] There is no blame, or forgiveness, just strategy.[/b][/quote]You know - there is so much truth in that statement that it's sickening. Is it possible to be a politician and a public servant anymore? :(

[Wow]

[quote] Lott's current antics are simply the wild thrashings of a drowning man[/quote]This is classic, are you a poet?

[Yuri T.]

Well I guess I'm biased. I've always thought Lott is a pompous ass who's out of touch with the mainstream. Even the mainstream of his own party. Always the first to blather and preach on with a holier than thou attitude. He knew full well the history of Strom Thurmond. Politicians are public speakers, it's half of their job so to say "I didn't think about what I was saying..." blah blah. These folks are professional speakers so in my mind it was a freudian slip and that's that. It's like telling someone "I didn't mean to play that song" after a gig. There are people who are bigots who aren't overtly so and don't even know they are that way.

[Dogfur]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b] [quote] Lott's current antics are simply the wild thrashings of a drowning man[/quote]This is classic, are you a poet?[/b][/quote]No, actually I'm shitty at poetry and prose - My lyrics have been referred to as " Stallone does Shakespeare"!

[MusicWorkz]

Nawledge, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. While there should be some forgiveness, for me it will occur after he is removed as House Majority leader. Over the course of three decades, as this country moved away from Jim Crow and we were fighting as a people for our civil rights, Lott had an opportunity to make amends. He supported The Prune in 1948, yet when this country had proven that the Dixiecrat agenda was wrong, he still expoused those feelings as recently as 1980. He supported a conservative agenda all the while where there were many opporunities to make a change. Unlike 1980, today the country is different. We cannot have our leaders still holding on to out-dated perspectives in a world where our enemies don't care abut our skin color if we re to survive. Lott got caught expressing a view he has had ALL his lifetime and has worked ALL of his lifetime to perpetuate. Even though he is a republican, he still makes decisions that impact my life and my families lives. The Repbulican party surely got caught with there pants down-remember Bush was at the same party. They can't outright come out against him but they cannot let him stay if they ever want to reach out to the black and other minority communities. Even as the democrats use this for political gain, it IS a political issue as much as it is about what is morally the right thing to do. We cannot let our leaders reprsent this country us if they cant represent everyone.

[SFOracle]

I'm all for forgiveness, for people who truely regret their actions (and the underlying attitudes caused them to act). So many public confessions are little more than self flagelations when you know the only thing they are sorry for is that they got caught. It is much easier to forgive folks who confess before they are caught in an embarrassing gaffe than it is to forgive folks in Trent's (or Clinton's) position. In Christian teaching, forgiveness is granted to those who confess AND REPENT. Repentance means literally to turn around and walk the other way. In modern vernacular, we would call it a "change of heart". Trent Lotts future actions will show if he has truely had a change of heart. Trent says he has changed and matured in his attitudes towards African Americans. If his recent voting record is reflective of his change of heart, I am not convinced. As far as Ahenakew, the Canadian Native leader, I can't imagine that a person who said: [quote] That's how Hitler came in, he was going to make damn sure that the Jews didn't take over Germany and Europe. That's why he fried six million of those guys, you know. Jews would have owned the goddamned world. And look what they're doing. They're killing people in Arab countries." [/quote]can honestly expect anyone to accept an appology. His explanation was that he lost his focus, got caught up in the emotion of the moment and said thing he really didn't mean. Deep seated hatred like that is not so easily repented of.

[Wow]

[quote] He supported The Prune in 1948, yet when this country had proven that the Dixiecrat agenda was wrong, he still expoused those feelings as recently as 1980. He supported a conservative agenda all the while where there were many opporunities to make a change. [/quote]How could he support the Prune(thats funny) in 1948? He was 7 years old.And just for the record, the conservative agenda in no way, shape, or form wants to "hold down" minorities. This is the BIGGEST spin job I have ever seen. We want people to join the party, and I think if anyone can persuade it, it is Bush. But this shit with trent lott has got to go. We dont need to be arguing about this , I thought things were better after SEPT 11, but maybe that was only temporary. We still have a bunch of fucks trying to kill us. We gotta learn to live together, we are all going to die together.

[Audiobotica]

Forgive, but don't forget who Lott is and what he's supporting. At a 100th birthday celebration for Thurmond, Lott, who is from Mississippi, said, ""I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either." Thurmond ran his 1948 campaign on a pro-segregation, anti-civil rights platform. One of the slogans for his campaign was Segregation Forever. At one rally Thurmond told supporters, "I want to tell you, ladies and gentleman, that there's not enough troops in the army to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the Nigra race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches." As a member of the U.S. House of Representatives in 1978, Lott was behind a successful effort to re-instate the citizenship of Confederate President Jefferson Davis. In 1981, the year he became house minority whip, Lott prodded the Reagan administration into taking the side of Bob Jones University and other segregated private schools that were suing the Internal Revenue Service to restore tax exemptions withdrawn a decade earlier because of the schools' discriminatory racial policies. In 1982 and 1990, Lott voted against extending the Voting Rights Act, the law passed to insure that minorities - especially Southern blacks - had access to the voting booth. In 1983, Lott voted against a national holiday for Martin Luther King, Jr., and in 1994 he voted to de-fund the MLK Jr. Holiday commission. In 1990, he voted against continuation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, the crown jewel of civil-rights legislation that desegregated education and public accommodations. Lott's record is long and clear. Forgive him? I do. Want people like him out of our government? Of course.

[CP]

So Lott made those remarks. So what? It wasn't really a surprise. Do y'all really believe that he is the only one in Congress that feels that way. Furthermore, do y'all really believe that only Republicans feel that way? The Republicans have long neglected Blacks, and have never concerned themselves with the issues that affect Blacks in this country and around the world. Conversely, the Democrats have long taken Blacks for granted, and only cared about Black issues during the times of election. What Trent Lott has shown with his statements is that we as a country have a long way to go. What's missing from our political system is accountability. I would rather have a Klansman in office who puts forth programs that help the poor and disenfranchised (regardless of race) than have someone smiling in my face, telling me how much he loves me, and in return does nothing for me or my community. Both parties have a lot of work and growing up to do. Instead of trying to exploit this (Bush to get the person he really wants, and Democrats to try and win back seats) I think both parties need to sit down and look at the widening gulf between Blacks and Whites, economically and socially, as well as the widening gulf between the haves and the have-nots. This by far is the best country in the world, but we need some major overhauls. Lets not forget, "the biggest room in the house, is the room for self-improvement". I say let Lott stay. But lets judge him and all the other politicians, not by how they vote on a worthless bill, but by the programs they put forth that is beneficial to all. Race is something that needs to be dealt with, and maybe this would be a good starting point.

[Jotown]

[quote]Trent Lott forgiveness. I don't know if he is serious or not about being sorry for the things that he's done, but the responsibility of forgiveness falls on our shoulders, not his. [/quote]I definitely offer him forgiveness, but, he has apologized only for making racist statements at a party. He has not apologized for pushing his racist agenda in his career as a senator. I can forgive him for making a mistake. But his votes as a public servant have not been [b]mistakes[/b], they have been his [b]intentions[/b]. And he has given no sign that he is sorry for those intentions.

[BNC]

[quote]successful effort to re-instate the citizenship of Confederate President Jefferson Davis. [/quote]why the hell did our govt waste time giving citizenship to somebody who has been dead for 90 years (at the time)?

[Hanshananigan]

"HI, IM A RACIST- VOTE FOR ME! I THINK THOSE ANIMALS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DRINK FROM THE SAME WATER FOUNTAIN AS MY CHILDREN AT OUR SCHOOLS. "BUT, REALLY, I'LL VOTE IN CONGRESS FOR EVERYONE'S BEST INTEREST IN THE COUNTRY- I GUESS THAT MEANS PROMOTING WHITE INTERESTS AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYONE ELSE- HEY, THE MAJORITY OF MY VOTERS WERE WHITE, RIGHT? "BUT LOOK AT MY TRACK RECORD- I'VE DONE GOOD THINGS WITH MY VOTE! JUST YOU FORGET THAT IF IT EVER CAME UP, I WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO SET ASIDE MY IDEALS OF WHITE SUPERIORITY AND VOTE FOR PROGRAMS THAT TREAT EVERYONE EQUALLY! "I AM TRENT LOTT, AND THINK THAT A SEGREGATIONIST PRESIDENT WOULD TAKE CARE OF ALL OUR SOCIAL WOES!" 'Just trying it on. I don't think I like it. What's there to forgive? You don't need to ask for forgiveness to be forgiven. Forgiveness is given or experienced by the victim, and really has nothing to do with the actor/perpetrator. Others have asked forgiveness for being a racist in the past, or for racist acts they performed. They meant it, and would not think/do it again. Does Trent Lott no longer feel whatever was going through his veins when he made that statement? He's just sorry he f--ked up and let people know how he feels. This white guy doesn't want guys like Brent Lott in office, influencing my society, my country.

[patrick_dont_fret]

Hmmm, seems like y'all really hate this guy. I'm no racist (my dad is), so I really am p.o.'d at this guy for what he said. I thought it was terribly funny what they did with it on SNL, though. Maybe we should take him, tie a rope around his neck, and throw it over a tree, and pull the other end from the back of a 1950 Ford pickup truck. That would be fun. But in all sincerity, I believe that forgiveness is a mix of asking God for it, and asking others for it. If he truly knows what he said was wrong, and wants to absolve himself of it, he should do so. I'm Catholic, but I'm also a hippie punk, so I also believe in karma. This guy, if he was serious about what he said, has some terrible karma coming to him. And I mean TERRIBLE. Anyway, word to Nawledge's first post about racism.

[Dan South]

[quote]Originally posted by Nawledge: [b]I believe that what people do in the confines of their own hearts, is their business, in other words if you don't like blacks, whites, latinos, indians, asians or martians thats your perogative as far as i'm concerned...[/b][/quote]It might be your prerogative, but it should be recognized as a weakness to be addressed. If a person carries around anger or anxiety or contempt, it's easy to see how those things will tend to drag the person down socially, emotionally, even physically. Bigotry is the same sort of phenomenon, a personal handicap. An angry person who learns to manage his or her anger will live a better life because of the effort that they dedicate to erraticating the problem. Same with an anxious or fearful person who may have been afraid to attempt activities that could have brought joy and fulfillment into their lives. A person who struggles under the weight of bigotry of any kind (racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc.) will find that they'll live a more fulfilled life if they deal with the problem and put it past them. I can forgive Mr. Lott his indiscretions, but it would mean more if he would demonstrate a willingness to face this problem and put it behind him. We have an opportunity to forgive, that's true, and I support Nawledge for so generously bringing this to our collective attention. But Mr. Lott has an opportunity to lead by example. If he chooses to do so, the result will be a powerful experience for him, personally, as well as for all of America as we struggle to move forward and lay the somber chapters of our history to rest once and for all.

[Nawledge]

you nailed it Dan "Mr. Lott has an opportunity to lead by example" I've just been imagining what a turning point this could be for our country. His record is bad, and frankly has been since he was a youth and aspiring politician. His statement was wrong, and I believe he spoke from his heart, but what a catalyst this could be. most racist have changed when they have been accepted, helped, or in some way shown some forgiveness by those that they hate. Because most of the time their hatred is based on fear and self isolation so they try to prop themselves up with the myth of superiority. I don't think we should let him continue to hurt people, I think he should be put on some sort of probation and hold him accountable to all the lipservice he's paying right now. I also don't think we should let our government get away with having Trent Lott be their fall guy, republicans and democrats are so full of sh_t, he is a party leader in the united states government, a senator and he didn't put himself in office, or stay there by his own will. If we let him be the fall guy then the rest of them get off easy and when will we get another chance like this, war and terrorism will overshadow everything else for years to come. I was offended by what he said. I've experienced police brutality, my current boss is racist. I really like my apartment, but when I rented it I was first rejected and told that it was not available, then the son of the owner came to me and told me that his father who rejected me was lying cause i was black, but that he would talk to his mother because she was the actual owner. she called me later on that day and told be she would be glad to rent it to me. on my seventh birthday, I was living in santa monica, and playing at a local park with a friend of mine. I was shot in the face twice with a pellet rifle by a white supremacist, who was "screaming get out of the park niggers" while he was doing it. My face was f_cked up, front permanent teethe destroyed, and pellets lodged in my gums and lip. I had to have surgery to remove those. The friend I was with, also black was shot in the back several times, he was on a bike and I was on a skateboard. Even though it was only a pellet rifle and not an uzi it did a lot of physical damage, and you can imagine being only 7yr old kids that it thoroughly ruined my birthday and many days afterwards. That was my initiation into the truth of our society and it has been a very long road since. There is nothing I am more sick and tired of than racism. It has touched every facet of my life, I can't even rock a good rhyme without some racist talkin sh_t about me rapping, but one thing I am sure of is that you cannot fight hatred with hatred and if our country could use this situation to shine a light on this issue rather than avoid it and use it to go in the right direction like the Enron scandal, I would count it as a huge blessing.