Trent Lott thread #2- A Great Opportunity For Forgiveness.

[Salyphus]

Forgiveness is fine, but he shouldn't be in a position of power. If he wants to be a bagboy he can spout whatever opinions he wants :p Biggest problem I see, is that as was mentioned above, this is merely the tip of the iceberg. Not just with him, but I would imagine there are 'lotts' of others with similar views, who simply hold such comments in check while speaking publically. Bottom line is to examine their voting records: actions speak louder than words. Is there a Web site that lists the voting records of politicians in an easy to view and compare format? If there isn't there should be! :idea:

[T. Ehl]

lott can show he has changed by stepping down as an example of his awareness of what he did forgiveness has nothing to do with this his true nature is indicated by his record and actions it is not about this one incident it just served to call attention to his nature

[henrysb3]

"The Devil inside, the Devil inside, Every single one of us, the Devil inside." - INXS I've been thinking about this issue all day, especially today. I worked in a predominatly black neighborhood most of the day today (I'm a tech for the local phone co). In 1958, my mom, my sisters and I set out to meet my dad in Florida. We drove two lane blacktop thru the segregated South. Growing up in Kansas, I had never seen segregation first-hand, though I had heard about it. You could pick up AM stations from Texas that shouted "Save your Confederate dollars, the South will rise again." But from the windows of our Dodge station wagon, the sight of black sharecroppers with huge families living in one room shacks was sorrowful. Public places had four bathrooms and two drinking fountains for blacks and whites. Maybe that's one of the "problems" Strom would have solved - unemployed plumbers. Always lookin' out for the little guy, you know. Swimming pools, theatres, and many other places had to have double facilities if they wanted to make money from black folk. If they didn't, it could be white only. Extra work for the construction trades, too. The only institution the Civil War changed was slavery. Instead, it became virtual slavery with a little more opportunity. From the North came a bunch of carpetbagger Republicans, determined to cash in on the freed slaves right to vote . And they were kind of a government of occupation, feeding a deep hatred for Republicans among the displaced Confederates. Eventually, though, Reconstruction gave way to more and more local control and segregationist Democrats began to form something called the Solid South, where young (usually rich) white politicians could eventually install themselves permanently in Congress, accruing enormous power thru seniority. Strom Thurmond was that kind of guy. He was there in 1966 when I was a page in the U.S. Senate. Lyndon Johnson, another former southern senator, was president. While the two could have not have had more different social agendas, they were both consummate politicians. But seeing he was wrong about Viet Nam, and seeing that he could be in trouble politically, even after winning the largest landslide ever, Johnson quit in 1968, leading to one and a half terms of Richard Nixon. I don't think Strom felt he was wrong about segregation. The Civil Rights movement had the support of Nothern Democrats and Strom had had enough. He dropped out of the party to form the States Rights party, commonly nicknamed the Dixiecrats. He eventually decided to join the Republican party, because he felt closer to their beliefs, or maybe thinking they had said "Republiklan", or maybe a combination of the two. And the South did rise again. Gradually the South became solid again, this time with elephants instead of donkeys. Trent Lott knows this history and untold more. I wonder if he got caught up in Strom's birthday, a kind of last confederate general's goodbye, and let the Fruedian overpower the professional in him. "Hey, I was just funnin'." may not be too far off the mark. I don't know if Lott drinks, but it could have been some gool-ol-boy likkered-up talk that weaseled its way out. It's just that the apologies and groveling have intensified only with public heat. Remember the "I am not a crook" speech of Nixon's, or the "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski" reply from Bill Clinton? How about the Los Angeles detective denying he used the word "nigger"? You knew they were lies from the beginning. Somehow, Trent Lott fits that overall feeling. He's so arrogant that he doesn't see the forest for the trees. George Will weighed in today for Lott to quit. This is a hot potato that George Bush obviously doesn't want, either. Sen. Lott is damaged goods and will drag the Republicans down, either thru recalcitrance, or conversely by bending over backwards, he could give away their agenda on affirmative action and other race sensitive issues. Much like Clinton dragged the Democrats down in 2000, or Nixon did to his party in the seventies. Maybe, just maybe, this will bring black voters to the polls. Sorry for the extended rant. Race is obviously still such a hot button, with the Al Sharpton name callers on one side and the Rush Limbaughs on the other. When F. Lee Bailey just kept spitting out the word "nigger" it really hit me - he enjoys this. He was relishing the fact that this cop was a racist and he could prove it. I kept saying to myself, "That has nothing to do with whether Simpson killed those people." But it got him off, and that's what Bailey was apparantly relishing - the kill. And the license to say, on national television, the word that white people should not say, but that rappers and others throw about with abandon. Sometimes spin and denial will buy a politician time and elections, but sometimes you need to come clean the first time, lessons Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, Gary Hart, and maybe Trent Lott came to learn too late. I'm with Rodney King. We need to try to get along. Strom Thurmond holds many records in the U.S. Senate - the longest term, oldest senator, and the longest filibuster - against Civil Rights. Maybe he and Trent Lott can both retire and reinact the Civil War, only this time they can pretend to win. Sorry for my own filibuster here. Namaste Henry

[Wow]

[quote] Is there a Web site that lists the voting records of politicians in an easy to view and compare format? If there isn't there should be! [/quote]Try this: [url=http://www.senate.gov/index.htm]U.S. Senate[/url]

[Salyphus]

Thanks, I had something a lot more user friendly in mind though...

[Wow]

I tried. How are you sal? We havent disagreed on anything a in week or two.

[Jotown]

Hey CM, thanks for that link to the Senate voting record.

[Audioboticatoccata]

Nawledge, I feel your sincerity in wanting to forgive and move beyond what's gone before. But... this is a man who spits on the principles you espouse so eloquently. Don't give this one the benefit of the doubt. He's stated that he hates you and wants you doomed to second hand citizenship his whole life by both his actions and his words. Don't get kicked lying down. Get up and say, "I respect your First Amendment right to your opinion. And I respectfully disagree with it and will fight to correct it!" The bully WILL kick the helpless. GET HELP!! Inaction = defeat

[MusicWorkz]

C.M., admittedly, that came out wrong. What I should have said, via his own comments, was that he [Lott] was in favor of Thurman's 1948 Presidential candidacy on the Dixiecrat platform, not that he "supported" him in 1948... [quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b] [quote] He supported The Prune in 1948, yet when this country had proven that the Dixiecrat agenda was wrong, he still expoused those feelings as recently as 1980. He supported a conservative agenda all the while where there were many opporunities to make a change. [/quote]How could he support the Prune(thats funny) in 1948? He was 7 years old.And just for the record, the conservative agenda in no way, shape, or form wants to "hold down" minorities. This is the BIGGEST spin job I have ever seen. We want people to join the party, and I think if anyone can persuade it, it is Bush. But this shit with trent lott has got to go. We dont need to be arguing about this , I thought things were better after SEPT 11, but maybe that was only temporary. We still have a bunch of fucks trying to kill us. We gotta learn to live together, we are all going to die together.[/b][/quote]

[Hippie]

I saw the rebroadcast of Lott's apology on BET. It was laughable and phoney...like his hair. :)

[Get Real]

Lets look at a few things. The reasons for segregation weren't thought up to be mean to blacks, it was to protect whites from typical black behaviour... and time has proven that to be correct. I don't see anyone pineing to move into a black neighborhood. By the way, blacks have a seperatist attitude. Quanza? just so they can have their own spin on the holiday season with a made up ritual? Nigger can only be said by blacks? Why say it at all? Reparations for slavery? My people weren't here then, and when they came here at the turn of the century they were treated way worst than the blacks of the day. Reparations... what a scam! No group has been given as many opportunities and passes as blacks have been given, and yet they are still ghettoized, and they blame everyone else but themselves. There were the ones who took advantage of the opportunities and prospered, and moved out of the ghetto. The amount of hatefires being fanned by black leaders and the group as a whole has only one purpose... to gain even more favor and passes in society while getting paid for the priveledge. So don't go crying about a statement made at a private party... that is his right. The idea that he should step down is an attempt to shortcut the democratic system. But such is the way of the modern black... 'If I make enough noise about something, then something will be done to appease me. and if it isn't to my likeing, then make some more racist noises". I cannot believe Spike Lee can get away with his hateful and slanderous speech on good morning america... Blacks are the most bigoted groups in this country today. Its in their entertainment, its in their churches, its in their ethics and justifications, its in their behaviour. They are just another group of hippocrates, wanting a free ride, (with a few exeptions).

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

BET's Ed Gordon was much harder and aggressive with his interview with Trent Lott than he was with his exclusive interview with O.J. Simpson. I guess it's a bigger crime to talk about supporting a presidential campaign from 50 years ago than it is to cut the throats of two white people.

[MusicWorkz]

Get real, you are totally clueless and making the types of statements you made typifies and reinforces the argument that people like Trent Lott and yourself still are out of touch with the truth and just need to sit down. Your post is full of stereotypes and untruths (more hatefires are being fanned by people like yourself, bent on "proving" that our perspective on this country is wrong), for just as much as you can generalize about us, we can apply the same statements to others as well, so your argument is baseless and without merit. And by the way, just what the fuck "typical black behavior..."??? Signed, A Modern Black [quote]Originally posted by Get Real: [b]Lets look at a few things. The reasons for segregation weren't thought up to be mean to blacks, it was to protect whites from typical black behaviour... and time has proven that to be correct. I don't see anyone pineing to move into a black neighborhood. By the way, blacks have a seperatist attitude. Quanza? just so they can have their own spin on the holiday season with a made up ritual? Nigger can only be said by blacks? Why say it at all? Reparations for slavery? My people weren't here then, and when they came here at the turn of the century they were treated way worst than the blacks of the day. Reparations... what a scam! No group has been given as many opportunities and passes as blacks have been given, and yet they are still ghettoized, and they blame everyone else but themselves. There were the ones who took advantage of the opportunities and prospered, and moved out of the ghetto. The amount of hatefires being fanned by black leaders and the group as a whole has only one purpose... to gain even more favor and passes in society while getting paid for the priveledge. So don't go crying about a statement made at a private party... that is his right. The idea that he should step down is an attempt to shortcut the democratic system. But such is the way of the modern black... 'If I make enough noise about something, then something will be done to appease me. and if it isn't to my likeing, then make some more racist noises". I cannot believe Spike Lee can get away with his hateful and slanderous speech on good morning america... Blacks are the most bigoted groups in this country today. Its in their entertainment, its in their churches, its in their ethics and justifications, its in their behaviour. They are just another group of hippocrates, wanting a free ride, (with a few exeptions).[/b][/quote]

[Wow]

[quote] I cannot believe Spike Lee can get away with his hateful and slanderous speech on good morning america... [/quote]I do agree with you on this one. That is worse than what trent lott said and NOBODY is saying anything about it. Why is this? He said trent lott was a member of the KKK and he had the Hood in the closet. This is the type of stuff that makes celebs lose their credibility on serious issues. I WANT someone to defend spike lee and then turn around and shit on lott for his statements. Somebody, please, I gotta here this.

[Get Real]

[i]And by the way, just what the fuck "typical black behavior..."???[/i] Whatever causes blacks not want to live around other blacks.... thats what is typical and prevelant. When you make your pile of Benjamins you'll be moving as far from the hood as possible so your kids and home will be safer. As Chris Rock says "Even Nig*ers don't like Nig*ers". And that is the sad truth... the only minority that doesn't support itself. Oh yea lots of talk, but no real support, and its always whiteys fault. You want a blueprint of how to do it... study the Miami Cubans who literally had the clothes on their backs when they got here. They stuck together by frequenting cuban based businesses therefore keeping the money inside the community, while growing the community. They made sure that the kids had an education and the men were responsible for their children. None of these qualities are ascociated with the black community, fairly or unfairly. The communities leaders like Jackson, Sharpton, and Farrakan all like to point fingers at whitey, or the jews, everyone else but their own selves. Blame Blame Blame. Quit the whining and take some action to change the conditions in your own community. Study the immigrant Irish, the eastern Europeans, the Cubans, you know, the sucessful minorities and pattern a plan based on the common threads of success by their example. I took a racist comedy routine from Def Comedy jam and reversed the roles, you know that I caught all sorts of heat for being a bigot. All I did was reverse the races. Apparently black comedians get a racial slur pass, when a white guy would not doing the exact same material. Is that equality? Personally, I don't think anyone should get a pass. The fact is that racial slurs are prominent and propagated by blacks... whites cannot even hint at any sort of reality based opinion, like this one without the 'you don't know' excuse or the 'racist' excuse being played out. That doesn't fly with Larry Elder, who is black and from south central. I don't have to prove your perspectives are wrong... history has shown the real truths, (it is not the hyperbola that is passing for history) and it is proved every day in everyones experience. Like the nick says... Get Real Then get to work on the community like the other minorities have and prosered. [quote]Originally posted by MusicWorkz: Get real, you are totally clueless and making the types of statements you made typifies and reinforces the argument that people like Trent Lott and yourself still are out of touch with the truth and just need to sit down. Your post is full of stereotypes and untruths (more hatefires are being fanned by people like yourself, bent on "proving" that our perspective on this country is wrong), for just as much as you can generalize about us, we can apply the same statements to others as well, so your argument is baseless and without merit. And by the way, just what the fuck "typical black behavior..."??? Signed, A Modern Black [/quote]

[MusicWorkz]

[i]Whatever causes blacks not want to live around other blacks.... thats what is typical and prevelant.[/i] This is where you have it all wrong. What you are espousing is stereotypes and generalizations. How can you use Chris Rock out of the context he was using in a standup? Ifyou really want to use comedy, then, take a look at [url=http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com]this site[/url] to see just how ironic the comedy is. If you need to learn something from this, learn that comedy is one of the few tools that we have traditionally used to provide you, the outsider with a mirror for you to look at yourself. It is a social commentary from a perspective you will never get, no matter who you read or quote. Jackson, Sharpton and Farrakhan, while vocal, do not represent nor speak for the entire African-American community, no more than I do. The true leaders are the ones you will NEVER know or read about, the ones doing real things for real people. If you honestly believe these people are our "community leaders', than you know even less about us than you have already shown. I have "made" my benjamins, and probably yours, too, I still live in the inner City, have no desire to move from where I am ANd I work in my commuity. And guess what, so do ALL of my successful friends. You have a shaded perception biased by the media and wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass. There is no whining here or with anyone I know. We know that this country was built on our backs and we are still catching hell because prejudice (PRE-judging) likes yours has been institutionalized. The scary part is, unless a person of Irish, Italian, German or any other European heritage told you, you would simple accept them as one of your own. A person of African descent, OTOH, is simple identifiable on observation alone. Do not sit here and tell me that I need to look at another ethnic group to see "how they did it"-no matter how you cut it, they still have not endured what we as a people have in this country. There is NOT one ethnic group that has 400 years of experience on this contienent from its inception, save the Native Americans. The majority of the history in this country is biased against minority groups. From slavery to today's foreign policy, the fact remains that here and abroad, what America gives with one hand it takes back with another while smiling in your face and saying that everything is okay. It isn't, and as long as we keep pretending that racism is dying here, we won't move past it. 9/11 showed us clearly-our enemies don't give a damn about "race", but somehow, we are still stuck on it. It is a fact that YOU need to get over. Once you do, then maybe we can "get real" with this conversation. [quote]Originally posted by Get Real: [b][i]And by the way, just what the fuck "typical black behavior..."???[/i] Whatever causes blacks not want to live around other blacks.... thats what is typical and prevelant.[/b][/quote]

[Wow]

[quote] Jackson, Sharpton and Farrakhan, while vocal, do not represent nor speak for the entire African-American community, no more than I do. The true leaders are the ones you will NEVER know or read about, the ones doing real things for real people. If you honestly believe these people are our "community leaders', than you know even less about us than you have already shown. [/quote]I am not being an ass, or not trying to anyway, but who is the leader if jackson and sharpton are not? There the only people I hear speaking out. There are alot of good people in the community that are black, I have found new respect for Warrick Dunn, he came to Georgia(Falcons), and he has done a TON for poor people. Buys people houses and stuff. The black community seems to have a problem with Family unity. This was not the case 50 years ago or so. What happened? Now this is the perception I get, I could be wrong. The thing I know is true is that there is a 70% out of wedlock rate on children. This needs to be the first thing addressed. I am not trying to slam a particular race(we all have drawbacks).

[Gabriel E.]

[quote]The black community seems to have a problem with Family unity. This was not the case 50 years ago or so. What happened? Now this is the perception I get, I could be wrong. The thing I know is true is that there is a 70% out of wedlock rate on children. This needs to be the first thing addressed. I am not trying to slam a particular race(we all have drawbacks). [/quote]No more so than any other group that is skewed to a lower income. Look at the "family unity" of low-income whites in rural areas and tell me if they're any different. How many kids in trailer parks have fathers present?

[henryrobinett]

I don't have time for this mess. I don't have time to read it and I don't have time to respond properly. I couldn't even read most of get reals BS. Just let me say this. My wife and I have made our pile of "Benjamins" and moved BACK to the hood. I moved back very close to where I grew up. While it's not the "hood" hood, it has a gang of more black folk than most. I didn't want to raise my kids in a lilly white "hood". The point is, the most vile and despicable thing a person can do to another person or group of persons is to deny their identity and their individuality. When you, or anyone, says "you people" you demean a whole group of people who aren't even real. There is no "YOU PEOPLE. There are only individuals. You, get real, or whoever you are hiding behind that nom de plume like the scared rabbit, are echoing opinions that are vile. You should check yourself. I am so proud of being black. My children are proud. We are a proud race. No more, no less than anyone else. You should be ashamed.

[MusicWorkz]

C.M., The issue is that people are looking and asking this question, as if we need a single figure head. The civil-rights era NEEDED a figure-head and found it in Martin, and even then there was Malcolm providing a differing view (albeit there was a marked change when he returned from Mecca). I honestly can say that there is not a singular voice, but there are true leaders that my generation have and are starting to look to. If you want "public" figures then Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. and Harold Ford (my college schoolmate) are only two. Tavis Smiley is another. Look locally and you will see businesspeople stepping in the role, providing the kind of guidance you will never hear about. Just because there isn't national exposure doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We have leaders of all types serving different needs and functions for different people. I also want you to take a look back a few years. One phenomenon you will see is that when black leaders get to a certain level, something seems to happen where they are seemingly singled out. Let's skip over the obvious ones, but look at those leaders hat Clinton appointed. EVERY ONE of them in major cabinet positions and seats, from the late Ron brown, to Alexis Herman and Rodney Slater and even Vernon Jordan, came under some type of attack, either personally or prfessionally. While it may not seem much to you, in the Black community, it was the one time where we agreed wth Clarence Thomas. These were high-tech lynchings, and they were no coincidnce either... However you look at it, when we get to a certain level in government or business, the rules change. It happens all too frequently for us, from politics to even sports (ask Tiger Woods and soon, the Williams sisters...) But herein lies the problem. Why do we have to have a singular voice. Just like mainstream society, we exist throughout the whole spectrum. For every Trent Lott, there is someone like a J.C. Watss. For every Rush Limbaugh, there is a Tavis Smiley. No one looks to other ethnic gorups and say "take me to your leader" because they do not exist. Family unity is no more a problem in the black community than it is in the white community although you wouldnt think so. With a divorce rate of hovering above 50%, ask yourself who are the ones getting divorced creating single family households if blacks aren't marryingto start with? By nature of many blacks being concentrated in urban areas, the problem is amplified and even excaberated, but don't get it twisted-there are more white women on welfare heading single family homes simply because there are just more of them (i.e. 70% of 1000 is still less than 50% of 1500 no matter how you count it). Remove the microscope from the urban areas and then start to look in the rural south and mid-west and the picture changes considerably. The statistics bare this fact yet are NEVER reported to the mainstream. I do not act like as a community, we don't have issues. We do, but also keep in mind, we mirror the greater American society in every way. As we are apt to say, when America catches a cold, the black commuity catches pneumonia... [quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b] [quote] Jackson, Sharpton and Farrakhan, while vocal, do not represent nor speak for the entire African-American community, no more than I do. The true leaders are the ones you will NEVER know or read about, the ones doing real things for real people. If you honestly believe these people are our "community leaders', than you know even less about us than you have already shown. [/quote]I am not being an ass, or not trying to anyway, but who is the leader if jackson and sharpton are not? There the only people I hear speaking out. There are alot of good people in the community that are black, I have found new respect for Warrick Dunn, he came to Georgia(Falcons), and he has done a TON for poor people. Buys people houses and stuff. The black community seems to have a problem with Family unity. This was not the case 50 years ago or so. What happened? Now this is the perception I get, I could be wrong. The thing I know is true is that there is a 70% out of wedlock rate on children. This needs to be the first thing addressed. I am not trying to slam a particular race(we all have drawbacks).[/b][/quote]

[Franknputer]

And as for no one moving into "black" neighborhoods - think again. Some do make the choice, very consciously. My wife & I chose to buy into our neighborhood precisely because of its ethnic diversity - not just blacks, but a large immigrant population as well. Why? Because we want our children to grow up to appreciate the breadth of the world's cultures, so they do not fear differences but rather embrace them. (We also prefer to live this way - we're not just doing it for the kids.) Our oldest daughter was one of maybe 4 white students in a school of over 1000 last year. She did great - made lots of friends, and was reluctant to leave when an exceptional educational opportunity come up. My 5-year old goes to an elementary school with nearly the same proportions. Our concern was with the quality of the teachers, not so much the color of the kids - and she gets along fine too, with kids of all colors. My best friend's dad had a saying - "Ni**ers come in all colors" (he was quite a character) - which to me means that the qualities ascribed to that word are present in every race, and no single race is defined by them.

[Wow]

[quote] Family unity is no more a problem in the black community than it is in the white community although you wouldnt think so. With a divorce rate of hovering above 50%, ask yourself who are the ones getting divorced creating single family households if blacks aren't marryingto start with? By nature of many blacks being concentrated in urban areas, the problem is amplified and even excaberated, but don't get it twisted-there are more white women on welfare heading single family homes simply because there are just more of them (i.e. 70% of 1000 is still less than 50% of 1500 no matter how you cunt it). [/quote]I never thought of it that way. Makes since. ---------------------------------------------- This is starting to get a little ugly. Lets all keep it clean and try to learn something from each other.

[CP]

Mr. Kemp, I applaud you and your family :thu: I am not going to respond to the ignorance posted by some of the above. However, Henry and Musicworkz, why would you even feel the need to explain to anyone why Blacks are in their current condition. You are responding to people who already have their minds made up about Blacks. I say ignore the race baiting questions and lets deal with other issues. Its funny how these threads always come down to race. This thread started talking about forgiveness and reconciliation, now we are here trying to defend why Blacks are in the condition they are in. Like Craig said in the other thread, we should just ignore these type of posts, and act like they don't exist. Everytime you answer these guys, it gives them more reason to post their racist views.

[Hippie]

Right. 'Love' is the first thing to fly out the window when money pressures are present. -I can tell you this first-hand.

[Dan South]

I'm not even going to give some of these remarks the courtesy of a reply, but here's a suggestion. Watch a week or two of the Springer program. There are plenty of people from ALL races who exhibit antisocial tendencies, amoral behavior, appalling speech patterns, substance abuse, child abuse, spousal abuse, criminal activity, abysmal parenting skills, etc., etc., etc. To imply that social problems are the exclusive domain of any single race, group, religion, nationality, or any other demographic qualification is utter foolishness.

[MusicWorkz]

Cp, There are many ways to deal with people like this. While one way is to go toe-to-toe, the other is to ignore them. I am well aware that this type of person will continue to post, but there are those days (this is one of them) where I feel particularly feisty and don't mind a good verbal joust. The more they post, the more foolish they look because the argument is one based in supersitions and distored facts. For every sterotype they can type out, it can be countered without resorting to baiting or insults. Many of us have made our point sufficiently to know that generalizations get us no where on either side. It is always a learning experience because we have a chance to see what the others think, whether we agree with it or not. Education is a good thing when folks are willing to at least be open-minded enough to learn.... [quote]Originally posted by CP: [b]Mr. Kemp, I applaud you and your family :thu: I am not going to respond to the ignorance posted by some of the above. However, Henry and Musicworkz, why would you even feel the need to explain to anyone why Blacks are in their current condition. You are responding to people who already have their minds made up about Blacks. I say ignore the race baiting questions and lets deal with other issues. Its funny how these threads always come down to race. This thread started talking about forgiveness and reconciliation, now we are here trying to defend why Blacks are in the condition they are in. Like Craig said in the other thread, we should just ignore these type of posts, and act like they don't exist. Everytime you answer these guys, it gives them more reason to post their racist views.[/b][/quote]

[Dan South]

I think the "Who are the Black leaders?" question is stupid. Who are the white leaders? Bush and Gore? Steve Jobs and Bill Gates? Rich Gannon and Roger Clemmens? Bill Moyers and George F. Will? John Madden and Phil Jackson? Dave Matthews and Garth Brooks? George Clooney and Brad Pitt? Anne Rice and Stephen King? NASA engineers? Medical researchers? Wall Street executives? There are leaders in every possible career, every industry, every discipline. That's obvious when you look at the white population; it should be equally obvious when you examine the population of minority groups.

[Wow]

I have been trying to keep this civil , but it seems a thread about race cannot be done. There have been some strong views posted here, and some I agree with and some not. I personally am not try to "race bait" anyone. If everyone wants the conversation to stop, I am all for it but if we dont ,as a society, finally discuss these issues they are never going to go away, or will they? Dan posted: [quote]I think the "Who are the Black leaders?" question is stupid. [/quote]Thanks dan, good to hear from you. :D :mad: ps: how come no one responded to my question about Spike lee? Is he a racist for saying what he did?

[Get Real]

Kill the messenger, Don't acknowlege and therefore address the problem, delegate the blame, play the race card, comparative studies for the purpose of justification. All have been used here, in one form or another as responses. That aside, why has the major minority with the most benefits performed the worst? What can be done to permanently change that? What can be done to change the crybaby knee jerk response and take some real and constructive action? There was some guy in here who was proud to announce that he didn't read everything said, yet responded anyway. Knee jerk automatic with a lot pablum. And there are some who have been thoughtful yet still not addressing the hard questions, like the ones above. WHAT IS THE SOLUTION? Learn from the successful minorities.

[MusicWorkz]

In this case, let me pull the switch and kill the messenger myself. A message without thought or logic is rhetoric, even propaganda, a tool used by those to obfuscate the truth with shades of grey and distorted "facts". You have proven that you lack the ability to understand any other point than what you have been brainwashed to think. The hard questions are addressed, but I cannot speak for every African-American, just like you cannot speak for every white person, or european or asian person with your screwed up perspective. The other posts here speak to that fact, so just like you don't have all the answers, neither do I. Finally, let's really "get real". I will take you to task because daily, I take constructive action in my community against people like you, because as long as I and my friends and family exist-educated, talented, intelligent, rich (yeah, I'm independently wealthy my friend, and I made my own money, not thru inheritence, with a product you surely own several times over...thanks for the support, dude :thu: )-you will have to continue spreading your message of hate and confusion because I, and many others like me, be them black, white, asian or otherwise, continue to prove you wrong at every step, every turn, every post... Peace, MusicWorkz [quote]Originally posted by Get Real: [b]Kill the messenger, Don't acknowlege and therefore address the problem, delegate the blame, play the race card, comparative studies for the purpose of justification. All have been used here, in one form or another as responses. That aside, why has the major minority with the most benefits performed the worst? What can be done to permanently change that? What can be done to change the crybaby knee jerk response and take some real and constructive action? There was some guy in here who was proud to announce that he didn't read everything said, yet responded anyway. Knee jerk automatic with a lot pablum. And there are some who have been thoughtful yet still not addressing the hard questions, like the ones above. WHAT IS THE SOLUTION? Learn from the successful minorities.[/b][/quote]