Trent Lott thread #2- A Great Opportunity For Forgiveness.

[tnb]

I don't know Geenard, I have done a lot of tours, walked into a lot of bars and the south is still a place where the rednecks seemed to feel like they had a lot more backup. When I walk into a neighbor bar in places like Chicago or Nebraska or Wisconson the most I ever get is a little grumbling. Usually I get "who do you play for?" And they are ALWAYS talking about football not music. [quote] Rich white guys in power do not want poor folks of any color to be united. It undermines their power. [/quote]Can't disagree with you there. Originally posted by C.M. [quote] You are basically trying to label the entire Republican party as racist. Not gonna work. [/quote]Then they are going to have to do a lot of house cleaning. I say let the witch hunt begin. Some of my best friends are republicans, but they aren't like all the rest.

[Charlie-brm]

You think it is tolerance or maybe familiarity with the unwritten rules, what lines can't be crossed, glass ceilings broken? Sometimes things play better when everybody knows the score. You are right about strong racism also existing outside of the American south. The worst I hear comes from people who from what I know of them and where they work and live, will likely have few dealings with anyone outside their own little world. And they want to keep it that way. I just wish they'd keep their ignorant mouths shut, but that won't help the people it's directed at, I know.

[gtrmac]

I admit that I beleive that racism is the predominant view held by those in power in Washington. And it seems pretty obvious that many Americans hold racist beliefs. Oddly enough I think it was music that helped me overcome my upbringing in a racist environment. My father, like many of his generation, was a racist. I was just talk and he was a peace loving guy who took us to church every Sunday but he used th n-word and it used to make me cringe. But I loved Blues and Jazz and it helped me to throw off that BS a long time ago. I don't think that there is any justification or excuse for racist beliefs and the idea that the leaders of the U.S. are racists is mindboggling to me. When will people grow up?

[Get Real]

[quote] What is it that you see in (my community)? [/quote]An incredibly high incidence of: Security bars on doors and windows, Mothers fretting every time the kids want to go out, rampant out in the open drug dealing, absent fathers, subtext messages in music and entertainment of violence and hate. [quote] Do you see guns? Where did they come from? [/quote]Usually from some enterpriseing member of the community out for himself and the quick buck, same goes for drugs too. Why is it that you think these issues are unique to blacks? These are the same issues that were faced by the Italians, the Irish, the asians, the cubans, the eastern europeans, yet they, as a community, overcame these problems and made a safer community for everyone. The government didn't do it on their own, the police didn't do it on their own, the members of the community with a common goal and will initiated and cooperated with the enforcement agencies is what did it. [quote] do you think they make guns in (my community) do you think that the gangsters who run the crack houses are also the owners of those crack houses? [/quote]I think the final interface peddelers of these community destroying commodities are blacks who are selfish and out for themselves. They get away with it because they control by fear, and they have nothing to fear, not family, not God, not their own conscience. The only fear they have is someone else bumping them off to take over their 'business'. [quote] there are problems in communities of all complexions but you missed that [/quote]No I haven't. I do see the same issues but not in such great proportions as I do in the black communities. Yes, there are good and safe black neighborhoods, but the ratio of the two is upside down. [quote] the fbi as well as the cia has admitted directing its forces wrongly against black people. [/quote]Please point me to the news website that supports this claim. If this is true, then it had to be news. Media loves these kind of admissions. Here is one of the formulas for missed opportunities for internal change. A kid does well in school and is taunted. He perseveres and goes to college, where he excells and learns to speak properly and drops the ghetto accent just as successful minorities have done before. He comes out of college only to be ostracised by the same people he grew up with and branded as a sellout and a tom. The younger kids see this rejection and make a vow not to follow in his footsteps. I know this to be true as it is a friend of mines story. He didn't feel part of any group until he found that group of educated and sucessful blacks like him and they became their own community, without much motivation to try and help the community where they came from and that rejected them. They weren't role models, in a way they felt they were anti role models. [quote]so the question is what do they (congressional represenatives ) know that you do not? [/quote]Quote the passage I wrote where I said that there is no raceism or bigotry in this country.

[Wow]

[quote]Then they are going to have to do a lot of house cleaning. I say let the witch hunt begin. Some of my best friends are republicans, but they aren't like all the rest. [/quote]Cleanup, lets do it, and lets not forget about Mr. Bird . I think anyone that was a MEMBER OF THE KLAN should not be in the Senate. Do you know that Mr. Bird is 4th in line to be the Prez. Yes, people we have a former member of the Klan that could very possibly one day run our country, but that will be ok because he has changed his ways, Right? Hell no, he just doesnt say it anymore. OOPS, yes he does , he used the "n" word on Fox a while back, and once again there was no call for his job. Seems like a double standard. Now, as to address the fact that "they aren't like all the rest". What the hell does this mean. Lets reverse this, and instead of talking about a republican, lets put in the word "black people". So it would be "black people aren't like all of the rest". You guys would freakout and lose your mind. I would be called a bigit and a racist, but it is ok to say it about the republican because most of them are "white" and we can say ANYTHING we want about white people and get away with it. Just like earlier when I posted the stuff spike lee said, nobody called it racist , and it was flat-out racist and plus it was a lie.

[Wow]

Just heard the news, Lott resigned as Majority leader. Now, everyone can play nice again.

[tnb]

C.M., racism has no place in our government. That certainly includes senator bird. Later for his ass. I don't care what party one hails from. As far as the "some of my best friends are..." I am glad you realize exactly the point I am trying to make. Or do you?

[Wow]

I get your point. In the south,were I live, the black people make up 50% of the population. We as people have learned to live together, we have no choice. Yes, the south has people that are racist but then it also has people that are fair also. I would think it would be easy in Cali to say you like black people. Do you know any? Not trying to be rude at all, but the people of the south have undergone a BIG transformation when it comes to racism. Will it go away, NO. I am not a fool, but we can try to make it better. We need to start by getting the black kids into better schools. We cant . Why not? Because the democrats and the teacher unions are stopping it. Which party is racist? I think that we all need to stop and look around at today and not 50 years ago.

[CP]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b]I get your point. In the south,were I live, the black people make up 50% of the population. We as people have learned to live together, we have no choice. Yes, the south has people that are racist but then it also has people that are fair also. I would think it would be easy in Cali to say you like black people. Do you know any? Not trying to be rude at all, but the people of the south have undergone a BIG transformation when it comes to racism. Will it go away, NO. I am not a fool, but we can try to make it better. We need to start by getting the black kids into better schools. We cant . Why not? Because the democrats and the teacher unions are stopping it. Which party is racist? I think that we all need to stop and look around at today and not 50 years ago.[/b][/quote]C.M., in all the posts I've read from you, this is the very first one where I totally agree with you. I beginning to wonder, if all that other stuff you say is just a front so no one would know the true you. ;) However, you are 1000% correct. The democrats and the teacher unions are stopping Black and poor children from all races from going to good schools. If the Democrats don't like the voucher program, why don't they come up with a compromise to it and get it done. Politics is nothing but bullsh*t.

[Dogfur]

[quote]Originally posted by Geenard Skeenard: [b][QUOTE] Rich white guys in power do not want poor folks of any color to be united. It undermines their power.[/b][/quote]This is truly the heart of the matter, my brothers and sisters of all races and persuasions. It is all based in economic class division. Eliminate the word "white" from Geenard's statement and it is true in every corner of the world.

[PBBPaul]

[quote]Originally posted by Watchout where that Dogfur goes...: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Geenard Skeenard: [b][QUOTE] Rich white guys in power do not want poor folks of any color to be united. It undermines their power.[/b][/quote]This is truly the heart of the matter, my brothers and sisters of all races and persuasions. It is all based in economic class division. Eliminate the word "white" from Geenard's statement and it is true in every corner of the world.[/b][/quote]Very true. Fortunately we live in a country where it is possible through hard work and diligence to change one's economic status and overcome class division.

[Get Real]

[quote]Originally posted by Watchout where that Dogfur goes...: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Geenard Skeenard: [b][QUOTE] Rich white guys in power do not want poor folks of any color to be united. It undermines their power.[/b][/quote]This is truly the heart of the matter, my brothers and sisters of all races and persuasions. It is all based in economic class division. Eliminate the word "white" from Geenard's statement and it is true in every corner of the world.[/b][/quote]As it applies to this country, What a load! Better tell the Cubans, the Asians, The Irish, the Italians, the eastern Europeans, Whoops too late, they have succeeded. The ones in power are the ones who are ununited, they are like the keystone cops. The one thing they do agree on is how to further their own personal wealth, usually at our expense. One more thing, they spend more time trying to pick each other off and dodging political arrows than hatching some united plan to srew any particular group. From what I have seen over and over, they simply aren't that smart.

[Nawledge]

Get Real you are making me laugh, if your friend stopped speaking with some accent because he started to make a certain amount of money?, well thats just funny. you paint a pretty picture. :wave:

[Get Real]

Do you have a comprehention problem? re read it Nawledge, thats not what it says. And yes, except for rap music, you do better if you don't speak street.

[Mike Coldsnow]

"I use to live in a nice black neiborhood till it was overrun by a bunch of yuppies."

[Nawledge]

Ok Get Real, what exactly is your point. first of all are you or are you not judgeing people by the color of their skin? if so then the rest of your points are moot, and if not then we have nothing to debate.

[Get Real]

[quote]Originally posted by Nawledge: [b]Ok Get Real, what exactly is your point. first of all are you or are you not judgeing people by the color of their skin? if so then the rest of your points are moot, and if not then we have nothing to debate.[/b][/quote]I am only allowed those two choices? Fact:People in general are distrustful and afraid of white people to some degree. Your fault or my fault? Fact: People in general are distrustful and afraid of black people to some degree. Your fault or my fault? The answer is: its no ones fault. It is instinctual to distrust people other that our own 'tribe' or collective. It is a hard wired survival instinct. Examples abound to this day. Japanese don't like Koreans and visa versa, Arabs don't like Turks, ect. It even has sublevel implications, this class distrusts that class, this teams soccer fan distrusts that teams soccer fan, on and on. History is full of this 'Lets get them because they aren't us' behaviour. What [i]is[/i] at fault; not making efforts to modify this imprinted survival rule and overcome it, which can be done. Common enemy becomes a powerful uniting force, 2nd world war is a fine examle of that. Without that clear unifying danger, we will and do fall back into our 'programmed' ways if we aren't vigilent. Some have made racism the common enemy, which is fine except that the tendency to put another tribes face on it is powerful. The difficult trick is to make raceism in our own particular tribe the common enemy, and not the other tribes racism. I have never said that my tribe is without raceism. Can you truthfully say that your is? I can say that my tribe has made efforts to change and control its natural tendency towards distrust of other tribes within itself. Can you say that your tribe makes the same effort? I have pointed out examples of your tribes raceism. God knows, we have been shown my tribes examples. What are you doing about your tribes raceist tendencies?

[Nawledge]

of course not brother, you get as many choices as you like, but it sounds like your getting tribalism and hatetred confused with the instinct for survival, which there is, but tribalism and hatred are both learned behaviours. These are the two tribes that I've learned to except the existence of, the racist and the non-racist. I am a part of the latter, which are you. ps. I still forgive trent lott, now that he's not majority leader but still in the senate it will be intresting to see what becomes of all his new leaf promises.

[Anon-a-Monster]

Can't we all just get along?

[Nawledge]

Anonville, that's what this thread is all about, getting along, and not by using devision as a bridge to come together, or an ideal to be unified by in some twisted backwards fashion.

[alcohol]

I like diversity more than unity. Calls for unity are calls for conformity to a singular viewpoint. The only unity I can fathom is in a universal allegience to the Golden Rule.

[alcohol]

Trent lost his post because his conservative approach was compromised by his need to apologize for his racist past. In trying to right the wrongness of his past beliefs he expressed support for liberal ideas offensive to the conservative base of the Republican Party and so - had to go. Trent's losing his Majority Leader seat was not a victory for liberals, it was just a correcting shift in the status quo for Trent's faux pas.

[Get Real]

Nawledge, It is obvious that you will not answer any question nor debate any fact. Instead you always bring it back to hate, which is a covert word for raceism. So lets talk about hate. Lets talk about hate that the black community has against whites, against asians, against hispanics, against itself, shall we? But no, you won't admit that blacks hate. Therein lies the problem. Whites have made efforts to hate less, while blacks have taken that opportunity to increase their hate. Maybe its out of frustration that not much has changed in their community, in many ways that ball is in your court. If your community keeps on hateing others based on their race or social position, they will hate you back... its that simple. More will die needlessly, Mothers will tear their hair, beat their breast over their kids, who you (apparently) think don't hate based on appearence. Community will point the finger at the usual targets of blame and nothing will change for the better, except hate based industries will get richer (the Sharpton and the Farakan types et al). There is a good rule of thumb to gauge the true motivations of anyone; Follow the Money. One has to ask oneself, who is profiting from keeping the hate button pushed? I am glad I don't walk in those shoes of denial. You've intimated that you knew what I was. I'll tell you what I am... a realist. alcohol, I don't think anyone is suggesting conformity here.

[Charlie-brm]

Man, some old fashioned Lei De Li Logic would be refreshing right about now, wouldn't it boys? :) Let's chant his name three times and summon him back to this farce of "facts". Then again, let's not.

[Nawledge]

alcohol thats not my idea of unity at all. at least we found something to agree on Get Real. umm I'm not sure where you got the idea that I don't want to talk about the existence of racist who are black, I thought I have been this whole time. you didn't get that idea from reading my earlier post though that's for sure. Let me repeat that racism is racism, no such thing as reverse racism, white racism or black racism or any other kind of brand name racism. just simple racism. there are many racist black people, I've had my life threatened by such individuals. I don't feel any different about them than I do about white racist, they are all the same, judging people by the color of their skin, in other words (all white people are the same because they are right) sounds rediculous I know but (maybe you don't agree Get Real) anyway I know people of all colors and nationalities. and I know that generalization is another word for "lie", I have met some of the most hateful white people and some of the most loving, as well as some of the most hateful black people and some of the most loving. so if you think that you can generalize about people, you are anything but a (realist) another point i wanted to make with you is that it seems like your perception of impropper speech, slang, and street talk is a bit muddled also. your earlier post made it seem like you think slang street talk is a result of a lack of education. you said that your black friend learned how to speak correctly in college, good for him, maybe he couldn't speak english propperly earlier because of a lack of education but street talk as you put it has nothing to do with that. I rap, I'm from the Ghetto, and a predominantly black neighborhood, but I still speak propperly (spelling a diff story) because this is how my mother taught me to speak, it's how she speaks, though she has always been poor and black. Street talk is not a lack of education, it is an extension of creativity over the process of speaking which can be iflexible at times. So we create words to have a fuller pallette to choose from for the purpose of expression. the lack of education comes in when someone else listening doesn't understand what is being said and assumes that the "street talk" is inferior, when really its just their lack of understanding. kind of like when you hear someone put down rap lyrics but you know that they could not understand what was being said or recite the rap lyrics in the first place. when I said I know you. I wasn't reffering to your race, I was reffering to your spirit, I don't know what race you are, it wouldn't even suprise me if you were black , I have met many black people like you too. I Didn't mean to give you the impression that I would not answer your questions, Post what ever questions you have now, and I will answer them one by one specificly.

[RM]

As I said, Trent was only forced out to have a neocon take charge, that means nothing for the betterment of race relations, or health care, or the price of oil... It does mean the far right still has a patsy, one who's not as pudgy as when he first came into DC and also a "Doctor", with all the mystique and noblesse' of swaying the middle ground earth mamas turned soccer mavins... It was and is simply politics, Trent puked and and Bush made him lick it up... Reminds me of an old Whoopie Goldberg skit, about Reagan, and getting umm...pummeled from an anterior angle... So what has changed? not a thing, merley the fresher face of so called compassionate conservitism..endearing, hardly, this guys as stained by HMO money as Cheney and Bush are by oil... Good to have ole Trent back as a peon though, perhaps he'll be more observent and support the catfish farmers, next time they need a federal subsidy (JOKE) Rob :wave:

[patrick_dont_fret]

I just got word from a source who will remain anonymous that our buddy Trent Lott meant every word he said. This person grew up in the same town in MS, and knew the family well. They said the Lott's have a reputation for being like this. So anyway, just thought I'd let you guys know.

[Wow]

I'll call trent lott what he is, a "racist", if I am also allowed to call jesse jackson what he is, a "race monger". Sounds fair.

[Get Real]

[quote] Let me repeat that racism is racism, no such thing as reverse racism, white racism or black racism or any other kind of brand name racism. just simple racism. there are many racist black people, I've had my life threatened by such individuals. I don't feel any different about them than I do about white racist, they are all the same, judging people by the color of their skin, in other words (all white people are the same because they are right) sounds rediculous I know but (maybe you don't agree Get Real) [/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with the above statement, but I am not sure what you meant by (all white people are the same because they are right) right wing, right minded, righteousness? [quote] and I know that generalization is another word for "lie", I have met some of the most hateful white people and some of the most loving, as well as some of the most hateful black people and some of the most loving. so if you think that you can generalize about people, you are anything but a (realist) [/quote]Generalizations do serve a purpose of not getting bogged down in minutiae. Some folks are not deserving of inclusion, and we both know that they are not who are being referred to anyway. So if I cannot generalize about blacks becoming successful and moving out to better neighborhoods, then why do you list your location as Santa Monica? Were you born and raised there? Here's a reality check with a generalization: More people want to leave the black neighborhoods, than move into them. There are exceptions to be sure, Baldwin Hills, some parts of Inglewood are two that come off the top of my head. Pineing to move into South Central or Ghostown in Venice... nope. [quote]another point i wanted to make with you is that it seems like your perception of impropper speech, slang, and street talk is a bit muddled also. your earlier post made it seem like you think slang street talk is a result of a lack of education. [/quote]In the world we are sized up pretty quickly, by our appearance, our manner, and our speech. If I were to do some type of business, and the man/woman with whom I had to deal dressed well, and was also well groomed, open their mouth and said "I needs to axe you a little sumpin' sumpin' so we can conversate". I don't know about you, but I would be out of there, pronto. The reason is that the speech doesn't inspire my confidence in that individuals ability to manage my finances. They could be the most talented money manager God ever created, but they would get few chances to excercise that talent, all because of their speech. We do speak english, (most do anyway) here, a common language. Slang words or coded words or purposefully mispronounced and grammerically incorrect for the sake of colorful speech, has a purpose to be sure, but not when you are interfaceing with the business world. Being articulate goes a long way to getting the result you desire, because one can be precisely understood. This issue of proper speech is epidemic. Many people do not know how to form a sentance to convey their message or desires. Pile on street slang on top of that and you have people guessing at what is trying to be conveyed. It is difficult enough to communicate using common words that we all know the meanings of. [quote] when I said I know you. I wasn't reffering to your race, I was reffering to your spirit, I don't know what race you are, it wouldn't even suprise me if you were black , I have met many black people like you too. [/quote]Let me say that nothing would please me more than to have something like Star Trek tolerance, cooperation and acceptance type of society. If we acheived that can you imagine what could be accomplished instead of all this energy, time, thought going into the old dog chaseing its tail. The energy expended on this whole Trent Lott crap will, in the long run, not make any difference to the larger and most prevelent matters at hand. Not to discount the need and reasons for all the effort being put out, its that it hasn't really acheived the goals for as much effort and money that has been expended. A re evaluation needs to happen and a much more efficient and effective method has to come about. It seems to me that (again a generalization) your people have an image problem. I obviously think that the black communtity needs to reinvent itself, not again as victims, but as the industrious, innovative, creative, and responsible people that they have already proven themselves to be, it just hasn't had the proper priority. Someone here wrote something about the damaged black psyche (sorry if I am over/under paraphrasing) I believe that is somewhat true. If one belives one is a victim, then they will behave as one. The cycle of black feelings of victimisation and white guilt feelings for that victimisation has to be broken. It is an unhealthy relationship with no progressive future. Again, a gross generalization, but true enough to have a crippleing effect on true understanding and acceptance of each other and ourselves. Not many questions this time in this post. I'll try to do better next time.

[Get Real]

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