Trent Lott thread #2- A Great Opportunity For Forgiveness.

[Get Real]

Again the race card... How constructive that rhetoric has become, just look around you and how that has helped anything. More finger pointing and blame. yawn... [i]ASCENDING THE MOUNTAIN C O N F E R E N C E Friday - May 3rd.- General Session 6:30pm Registration Registration cost is $35 by April 26, 2001 $45 afterwards Registration includes free admission to Instrumental concert featuring Tony Walker and Jonathan Dubose Jr - Saturday, May 4th @ 7:00pm 7:00pm - 9:00pm General Session - Intro - Gilbert S Hamm Jr Touching the heart of God - Elder Gerald Pierce Saturday - May 4th 8:30am Registration 9:00am- 12:00pm Classes 12:00pm - 12:30pm - Lunch - (Will be provided) 12:30pm - 3:30 Classes Topics include - Ministry vs Industry - Jonathan Dubose Jr Choir Decorum & Development in the 21st Century - Ernie Saunders Behind the veil -Touching the heart of God Elder Gerald Pierce Can you hear me? - Audio Ministry Basics Tom Petranski -Morning Star Playing appropriate music for worship Piano basics Tony Walker The Industry from the Inside Panel discussion w/ Helen Giddiens - Entertainment Lawyer Mark Schultz - President of NARIS Saturday night - An evening of worship featuring Tony Walker and Jonathan Dubose Jr in instrumental concert @ Life in Christ- 3rd & Booth Sts. - Chester, PA Tickets - $15 FEATURING THE WORLD PREMIERE OF May 5th - Album debut " I still Worship" Elder Gerald Pierce 6:00pm - New Life Ministry International 10 7th Street, Chester, Pa Free will offering[/i] Yea Man You are heavily invested in the race conflict industry. Do you preach tolerance or finger pointing? Blame or solution? Mr. I don't have the answer... but I influence many. If you don't have an solution then you aren't being an effective leader. I will try to find some more postings on the net from you and about you. You see I am dealing in facts, where you are espousing a tired old rhetoric, apparently for financial gain.

[Get Real]

[quote] Finally, let's really "get real". I will take you to task because daily, I take constructive action in my community against people like you, because as long as I and my friends and family exist-educated, talented, intelligent, rich (yeah, I'm independently wealthy my friend, and I made my own money, not thru inheritence, with a product you surely own several times over...thanks for the support, [/quote]Hmmm.. was that before or after the drug addict portion of your life... [i] Gerald Pierce came in hurting. When Dickie Robbins returnedto his hometown of Chester, he heard reports that his formerclassmate (and a gifted musician) was using drugs­even whileserving as a church musician. His marriage was on the rocks and hehad lost his kids. Bishop Robbins invited Gerald to join him.Robbins said he could not pay much money, but he promised toughdiscipling! Gerald agreed. Today Elder Pierce leads the church's extensive program inmusic and fine arts: drama, praise dance, mime, step, and choirs.He just released an album called "Let It Rain," which he wrote andproduced. "The devil thought he had destroyed Gerald," BishopRobbins says, "but God has turned him around. Through his musicand ministry, people are getting saved all over."[/i] Seems your bullshit is showing. All I can find (so far) are 2 CD's by you, and I do not own either one. Nice try on the support game.

[Salyphus]

Gee, we have the Anti-Myles moron posting racist tripe now :bor: Maybe I should post your IP this time :rolleyes:

[Wow]

Didn't we have a big bruhaha about people posting IP addresses about 2 weeks ago?

[Get Real]

The only consistent racists I see on a regular basis is Rev Al Sharpton, Louis Farakan, Spike Lee, that so called comedian Paul Moody, all spouting hatred based on race. Dr. King is looking down and crying about the hijacking of his lifes work and the pergatory that progress has wallowed in. Study what his philosophy was, cause it is not being put to practice. When it was, it was working. These days what is passing as work towards equality is a perversion of his methods and dreams. It is now confrontative, so what do you expect in return? God forbid anyone confronts any of you about your responsibility. The responses are as vile and predictably bigoted as demonstrated here. Hippocrates. Stop crying the old tired song and instead change your communities. Make it safe to take an evening walk. Make it safe in schools so good teachers will want to teach there. Make it the acceptable aspiration to excel in schoolastic endevors instead of the beatings and ostrication that a lot of kids get from being bookish. That is only some of the the work to be done. The blueprint has been drawn and tested sucessfully over and over with great success... use it.

[Philter]

The civil war was only two lifetimes ago. We are living in a society that was built from the sweat and sin of slavery. A lot of people can't understand the debt which we carry with us, or why black culture and society are struggling. They don't understand that debt because they're selfish and uneducated. If there is some kind of judgement after life, you can bet that we'll be carrying that debt with us. Being born after something happens but still benefiting from it makes you a participant. Slavery is a stain that doesn't wash off that easily.

[Wow]

[quote] If there is some kind of judgement after life, you can bet that we'll be carrying that debt with us. Being born after something happens but still benefiting from it makes you a participant. [/quote]I sorry, but this is a crock of shit. I was interested in your post until I saw this. You lose all credibility. You cant blame people today that weren't even around 100 years ago. I am all for people being equal in every way, but this shit has got to stop. There are several different races that have been used in slavery. ps: (Note to black men) stop taking all of the white girls. :D

[MusicWorkz]

Good try, but you still don't have a clue. If I am that intriguing for you to go and look for more stuff on me, be my guest-it will not change anything I have stated. Going to ONE of my websites and posting something from ONE of my artists (not me, stupid) shows just how "intelligent" you are. You don't have the mental capcity to keep up. You keep espousing rhetoric as fact, an obvious sign of a mental midget. Come strong or don't come at all. It's truly embarassing for you... Nuff' said... [quote]Originally posted by Get Real: [b] [quote] Finally, let's really "get real". I will take you to task because daily, I take constructive action in my community against people like you, because as long as I and my friends and family exist-educated, talented, intelligent, rich (yeah, I'm independently wealthy my friend, and I made my own money, not thru inheritence, with a product you surely own several times over...thanks for the support, [/quote]Hmmm.. was that before or after the drug addict portion of your life... [i] Gerald Pierce came in hurting. When Dickie Robbins returnedto his hometown of Chester, he heard reports that his formerclassmate (and a gifted musician) was using drugs­even whileserving as a church musician. His marriage was on the rocks and hehad lost his kids. Bishop Robbins invited Gerald to join him.Robbins said he could not pay much money, but he promised toughdiscipling! Gerald agreed. Today Elder Pierce leads the church's extensive program inmusic and fine arts: drama, praise dance, mime, step, and choirs.He just released an album called "Let It Rain," which he wrote andproduced. "The devil thought he had destroyed Gerald," BishopRobbins says, "but God has turned him around. Through his musicand ministry, people are getting saved all over."[/i] Seems your bullshit is showing. All I can find (so far) are 2 CD's by you, and I do not own either one. Nice try on the support game.[/b][/quote]

[Get Real]

[quote]Originally posted by MusicWorkz: Good try, but you still don't have a clue. Going to ONE of my websites and posting something from ONE of my artists (not me) will not negate my points. You've played yourself and your ideology. Now is the time to grow up and move on. Nuff' said... [/quote]A rope a dope answer.... Ya see there is no talking with someone who lies about their wealth. Its a black pride thing. I have asked about 15 direct questions, and not 1 was answered. Instead there is retoric, accusations, lies, diversions. This is some typical behaviour, when someone points a finger at you reply with racist, racist, rinse and repeat. Like I said, when my people came over here, they were regarded and treated worst than blacks, held down by the man and blacks as well, (look at how blacks regard asians today) yet my people prospered without any leverage or advantages in 2 generations. It has been 6 generations for blacks since the emancipation, yet they are still struggleing even with aid and advantages. The reason lies within their own priorities, mindset and ethics (as a group). Dr. King had it right and did it without hate or violence and that one has to change oneself. That is not the method today. The sqeaky wheel gets the grease. Its all about the grease. Reparations... its about the grease, not about righting some wrong. Things will not become better because of it. BTW 360,222 white men died fighting for civil freedoms (as well as other issues) during the war between the states. No credit for that, huh? Sal... go ahead and post that IP address. Personally, I don't think you have it, I think you are full of it.

[Hanshananigan]

I have answers- especially to the stats people are throwing around. I've had a lot of exposure to these issues in my training and research in the last few years, from almost a "third person" view- that is, I'm not Black, but I'm not getting my info from David Duke websites, either (although, I have spent time researching their views). However, I don't like the personal attacks in this thread- this has gone from academic to personal, and isn't worth my time. fyi- I have a lot of respect for the Black posters here like MusicWorkz (BastidE?) who keep their cool and post intelligent, reasonable stuff each time these types of threads surface-every month or so, it seems. I don't always agree with what is said, but your voices (diverse as they are) are appreciated!

[Roto]

I agree with the drowning man analogy. You'd think the fact that they guy got this far in the government he would be a more skilled politician. If he could've come up with one legitimate reason why Strom Thurmond should've been elected President he never would've had to apologize. He should have refused to apologize, but now he's just proving what all the speculation was 100% correct. I don't even need to hear his apology to know it's going to be phony. It's obvious enough by all his backpeddling. He says Thurmond should've been President and gets accused of being in favor of segregation. He can't defend himself because if he believed differently he would've said so. He should step down just for being an idiot.

[Anderton]

During MY LIFETIME, there were separate schools, bathrooms, and even drinking fountains for black people. They le were supposed to sit at the back of the bus. Lynchings still occurred. I don't think you have to be black to understand how that would mess with one's psyche. A constant, negative reinforcement about your inherent worthlessness and second-class citizenship is bound to have an effect. Regarding the Irish (derided as "micks"), the Italians (called "wops" and "greasers"), Cubans, and so on, certainly immigrants have indeed been successful here after overcoming tremendous struggles. (Remember,it was only 43 years ago that people said Kennedy would never be elected president because he was Catholic.) *But there's a significant difference*: They generally came here seeking a better life. They were determined to succeed because they came here voluntarily. They had a common culture and a common background, and had the "support structure" of a common community. The people who were brought here as slaves did not choose to come here. They did not come here in the hopes of a better life. They did not have a common culture and background, but were brought from diverse parts of Africa. Just because a group of people has black skin doesn't mean they share a cultural heritage, any more than white-skinned Europeans do. That's a lot of baggage, and it was perpetuated for hundreds of years. Something like that doesn't get fixed overnight. And, frankly, many well-intentioned government policies actually made things worse. I think that in general, this country has done a reasonably decent job in trying to improve race relations on both sides. Many black people have tried hard to integrate into this society, and many white people have tried very hard to creae an environment where this can happen. And let's not forget that white people have baggage, too. The ones who were raised with the idea that blacks are inferior, and who managed to overcome that prejudice, deserve kudos for being able to change and adapt, as do the blacks who have been able to say "Screw it, I don't care if I was a slave, I'm me and I'm going to make a contribution to this society." But ultimately, judging on race is doomed to failure. I've known wonderful black people and reprehensible black people. Same goes for whites, too. Saying "blacks are this way" or "blacks are that way" is ultimately meaningless. Each person can be judged only on their own merits.

[Get Real]

[quote] Each person can be judged only on their own merits. [/quote]Amen. BUT thats not the way it works. If you are a qualified white male going for a position at a company, and a minority is applying for the same position and is less qualified to boot, guess who gets the gig? Yet the bell of discrimination is rung usually when there isn't. To tell the truth, its reverse discrimination. The discrimination call has been used and abused so much over issues that deal with anything but, that it has watered down the importance of legitimate claims. (Cry Wolf parable) It has become an ironclad fallback excuse, much like the abuse of sexual harrassment laws. To the poster who claims all sort of research then post nothing constructive, but take an assumptive dig about what site one statistic came from (which it didn't) Please, enlighten us with your secret solution. I have named the percieved black community representitives who spout all sorts of bigoted and racist rhetoric. If you don't agree with them, shout them down, or publish your own distanceing of them and their views. Has that happened? Nope. Conclusion: you agree and align with their beliefs and bigoted ways, or you try to ignore them and hope they go away. Jump on them as passionately as you have jumped on me, because I haven't come close to the severity of bigotry that they preach. Any bigotry, prejudice, discrimination is wrong--- ANY! No passes, no excuses. Don't do it, don't passively or actively support it. No double standards. None of this 'its ok for me to say some words, but you cannot'. Bad words are hurtful words, no matter what spin is being put on it. Like I suggested, re-read Dr. Kings plan and agenda again. Its all in there equal and colorblind.

[Mike Coldsnow]

QUOTE I definitely offer him forgiveness, but, he has apologized only for making racist statements at a party. He has not apologized for pushing his racist agenda in his career as a senator. Exactly, Did he appologize for saying it in the 1980's in Mississippi when it was given loud applause. No, he only applogizes when he feels it will benifit him.

[Charlie-brm]

[quote]Originally posted by Mike Coldsnow: [b]QUOTE I definitely offer him forgiveness, but, he has apologized only for making racist statements at a party. He has not apologized for pushing his racist agenda in his career as a senator. Exactly, Did he appologize for saying it in the 1980's in Mississippi when it was given loud applause. No, he only applogizes when he feels it will benifit him.[/b][/quote]No wonder why many decent capable people don't go into politics. Resign, write a book Trent and I'll see you on Larry King crying all the way to the bank. Buh-Bye!

[Nawledge]

alot has happend since the last time I looked at this thread. Get Real, I know who you are, and what you are. why do you keep speaking of Dr. King, he was nothing like you. He did't generalize about races of people, even with hundreds of a paticular race surrounding him physicaly and threatening his very life. You on the other hand do generalize whole heartedly, for you to speak his name is blasphemous. You seem educated and are adapt at internet searches as well as anlyzing forum post, yet I haven't seen you mention any of my post on this forum, have'nt you searched for them. What is the matter? don't I fit into any of your generalizations for black people. you say you are asian and that your people have been here for 2 generations and have suffered much more than anything that the black people in america have gone through. I'd like to know what you are talking about, specificly. I was under the impression that there wasn't anything that black people hadn't gone through in this country so I am doublely intrested in what you are talking about because it must be something that is so terrible that it has never been exposed. share it. DAN south wrote: I think the "Who are the Black leaders?" question is stupid. Who are the white leaders? Bush and Gore? Steve Jobs and Bill Gates? Rich Gannon and Roger Clemmens? Bill Moyers and George F. Will? John Madden and Phil Jackson? Dave Matthews and Garth Brooks? George Clooney and Brad Pitt? Anne Rice and Stephen King? NASA engineers? Medical researchers? Wall Street executives? you missed this post I think. Meditate on it. what kind of asian are you? and tell me what is the name of the "King Asian" that speaks for you all? you know what your problem is? You're ignorant, hateful, and more than a little bit afraid. you know what my problem is?, there are alot more people like you in america and the world abroad.

[Nawledge]

but I forgive you for the pain you are trying to cause here, though i'm angered your hatred, stereotypes, and generalizations have no real power to speak of, especialy over me.

[Philter]

[quote]Originally posted by C.M.: [b] [quote] If there is some kind of judgement after life, you can bet that we'll be carrying that debt with us. Being born after something happens but still benefiting from it makes you a participant. [/quote]I sorry, but this is a crock of shit. I was interested in your post until I saw this. You lose all credibility. You cant blame people today that weren't even around 100 years ago. I am all for people being equal in every way, but this shit has got to stop. There are several different races that have been used in slavery. ps: (Note to black men) stop taking all of the white girls. :D [/b][/quote]You missed the part of my post that applied to you, which was about being selfish and uneducated. Can't you go find a white supremacist board of your own to post on? Don't you get the feeling that racism doesn't fit in here? Do us a favor and take a hike.

[Nawledge]

I understand your sentiments philter, but if we filter out all of the distasteful things in life, we'll miss out on alot that we could learn from one another, even racist, mainly if we are walking around without protection in one of their neighborhoods :eek: lol, seriously though lets not exclude, its time we look this topic in the eye.

[Get Real]

Do not assume you know me. I am not asian and never said I was. I did say that *here comes a gross generalisation* that blacks have treated asians very badly, and have a racist attitude towards them. Know your own people for their strengths and their weaknesses, and the mistakes that are being committed on a daily basis in general as a group conciseness, the bigoted attitude against anything not black... sound plausable? Possible? Ever seen this exibited? Truthfully? Nawledge, I have asked many direct questions, yet you have tended to sideslip them and go on the offensive and demeen my character, because I have the audacity to point out what I see, and have seen, the results and reactions of the mindsets and behaviours that I have previously referred to. Your people, as a whole, aren't that much better off than 20 years ago. Who is to blame for that? Everyone else but the community itself? Money has been thrown at this, programs and advantages, ect ect, yet not much better off. It hasn't worked. When the country, as a whole, is trying to find a way to make things equatable and keeps hearing that it isn't good enough, over and over again, why keep trying? So as to get another slur and slam upon the efforts? What you are seeing before you is frustration and backlash and the realisation that the work is not being done together, but expected to be done for, not done with. Nothing else can be done, until your communities change their mindset, about themselves, and the world around them. Point out to me what is untrue. If you say I don't know from what I speak, then be as specific, as I have been. I refer to Dr. King as he had the pure and simple way, without anger, without revenge, a winning dynamic for all participants. He was not being exclusive. Yet you, in so many words, said I have no right to even utter his name. In all relationships, both sides have to work on their faults and foibles. One side only doing it never works. What I have been saying, and this is what has probably stung the most, is that your community, as a whole, hasn't examined and corrected the things that causes the ills within itself. The cure cannot be accomplished by anyone or anything else but from within its own self. I realise that I have been very general in my statements, and there are great exceptions to them, but the overall picture is what I and many others have experienced and observed over a long period of time.

[Philter]

[quote]Originally posted by Nawledge: [b]I understand your sentiments philter, but if we filter out all of the distasteful things in life, we'll miss out on alot that we could learn from one another, even racist, mainly if we are walking around without protection in one of their neighborhoods :eek: lol, seriously though lets not exclude, its time we look this topic in the eye.[/b][/quote]I disagree. You can't learn anything from listening to the opinions of bigots except for realizing how nice it would be if there weren't any. There's no need to tolerate those kind of attitudes; they were discredited in the 1940's once and for all. Even arguing with hateful attitudes like that gives them credibility. You can't argue with crazy. :freak:

[Nawledge]

I am so glad that you've explained yourself further. I'm going to say something to you that it appears you have side sliped. there is no you and me, your community.. my community.. those statements show that you live in a vacuum, but the rest of the world does not. You talk about the truth, but the most obvious one is eluding you. We are all connected, and I don't mean this in a utopian sense. I mean Literally. What is it that you see in (my community)? Do you see drugs? Where did they come from? Do you see guns? Where did they come from? Define the word government. Now define the word senator. define the term" head of political party" Do you really think that our government has no effect on our country?, of course you don't. trent lott, robert byrd, strom thurman jesse helms you know the names and you know the agendas, how many communities do you think they have effected. do you think they make guns in (my community) do you think that the gangsters who run the crack houses are also the owners of those crack houses? there is a fundemental flaw in your methods of tracing problems. you are going backwards. if you don't think what happened yesterday has any bearing on what happens today and today tomorrow, then you are in denial of the very nature of nature itself. I don't know Get Real, there are problems in communities of all complexions but you missed that, and you also act like you don't know what country you live in, what kind of foundation it was built on, and what trickle down economics are. but let me tell you something about america that you didn't know. the republicans and democrats have admitted that american governmental policies have been systematicaly bias against black people the fbi as well as the cia has admitted directing its forces wrongly against black people. now of course not all policies, or people in those agencies and in our government are against black people, but enough are to have had and adverse effect on our country, and our congressional represenatives have publicly admitted these things so the question is what do they know that you do not?

[Nawledge]

philter man, listening is the only way to know that they are coming, and I only wish it was true that they were discredited in the 40's, but there are to many of them in positions of power and authority for that to be the case. when ever there is a situation where someone is willing to lead and others are willing to follow, what they are saying needs to be listend to. we put trent lott in office, and we kept strom thrumon there til he was a hundred years old, we have problems. every time farakhan speaks he's got hundreds and hundreds of people hanging on his every word, we've got problems, cats like Get Real probably have people standing next to them that don't mind being there. we've got problems. somebody has to listen.

[Jotown]

For a thread that was asking about forgiveness, this has sure gone into the shitter. :wave:

[Wow]

philter, You post some crap, and then turn around and tell me to leave, and call me a bigot, and tell me that I am uneducated. Well, lets talk about this, just because I dont agree with YOU does not make me a bigit at all. As far as uneducated, I have a PHD, but then what do YOU know and I love the way you downplay the people you dont agree with you. I dont agree at all with "get real" on his or her tone but NOBODY HAS ANSWERED ANY OF THE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN POSTED by get real. All I see is name calling by YOU. I have tried to be nice as possible on this thread, but no, name calling seems to be the game. Hell, I can call you all kind of names from behind this keyboard, and you cant do shit about it but I WILL NOT. That is not the point. It seems to me once again that race card is being played by all and that nothing is being addressed.

[coyote]

I'm a white man. I have no way of knowing whether blacks ought be offended by Lott's recent faux pas or by his comments thru the years or by his voting record. I will say this: Lott's comments sound a heckuva lot like those of an Alabama guy I know.... "We've got 'em under control down here. It's no wonder y'all (New Yorkers) have so many problems". It's still the prevailing attitude of much of the old South. Also, if you watch the video you see he speaks the original comment from the heart, while the apologies have been contrived and forced. It's not about forgiveness. Lott may be forgiven AND simultaneously deemed unfit as a national leader. He is simply not a good choice for Senate Majority Leader. As to whether he remains in the Senate, that's between himself and the voters of Mississipi. Just remember that his attitude reflects the attitude of the majority of voters in his state, and that whatever happens in the next couple weeks the Republican Party *knew* his views on race and believed he would serve its policy interests.

[Wow]

You are basically trying to label the entire Republican party as racist. Not gonna work. :mad:

[gtrmac]

Racism is contrary to the principles which America [i]supposedly[/i] stands for. The fact that a Senator, and in fact the leader of the Senate, can hold racist views is a tremendous shame. It is not something that I find hard to believe though. He should be forced to resign as a demonstration that his views cannot be tolerated in positions of leadership. Racism is certainly a character flaw and anyone who believes that one skin color is better than another has an underdeveloped mind. Let's really get real.

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by coyote: [b]I'm a white man. I have no way of knowing whether blacks ought be offended by Lott's recent faux pas or by his comments thru the years or by his voting record. I will say this: Lott's comments sound a heckuva lot like those of an Alabama guy I know.... "We've got 'em under control down here. It's no wonder y'all (New Yorkers) have so many problems". It's still the prevailing attitude of much of the old South. Also, if you watch the video you see he speaks the original comment from the heart, while the apologies have been contrived and forced. It's not about forgiveness. Lott may be forgiven AND simultaneously deemed unfit as a national leader. He is simply not a good choice for Senate Majority Leader. As to whether he remains in the Senate, that's between himself and the voters of Mississipi. Just remember that his attitude reflects the attitude of the majority of voters in his state, and that whatever happens in the next couple weeks the Republican Party *knew* his views on race and believed he would serve its policy interests.[/b][/quote]Racism has no borders, and is not specifically a product of the Old South. The old guard, Lott is 61, still have those sentiments but don't do it overtly, because now a serious ass whooping would occur, and or public outcry. While in the military, I traveled all over this country, east, west, north, and south. I found more overt racism in the north and out west than I have EVER witnessed down south. This is my personal experience, and everybody has them. Try walking into a bar randomly in North Chicago if you are a person of color. Nebraska, Wisconsin, all have huge KKK membership. I don't have facts and figures, all I know is what I saw. The south that I know is incredibly more tolerant. Rich white guys in power do not want poor folks of any color to be united. It undermines their power.

[Wow]

[quote] He should be forced to resign as a demonstration that his views cannot be tolerated in positions of leadership [/quote]He will be romoved.