If Hip Hop is so easy...

[Bobro]

As I mentioned in Stuffdog's thread, all musicians are in the same boat as rap musicians as far as skill and musicianship- the H.M.S. "Prove It".

 

I never assumed that rapping or rap production as "easy", I figure technique is about about getting the tools you need to make the music you need to make, whether it can be done in 20 minutes or takes 20 years (or both, as is often the case.) Maybe it's easy for some and difficult for others- whatever. Anyway, whatever your take is, here's your chance to "prove it"

 

http://www.slamjamz.com

 

Remix a Public Enemy song! It's free and fun as hell. Mister Chuck D (the judge) seems to be looking for unique approaches, jazz, country, samba, whatever, so it looks like fun for all.

 

I've been reading Public Enemy lyrics on the Internet. Well what can I say? Judge for yourself.

 

-CB

[mojosaur]

For those who can do it, I'm sure its pretty easy........but, hello, its who you know that determines the rest, right? Politics.

 

Most of you know this but before you submit any work on the internet OR ANY PLACE ELSE check the fine print you may give up the rights to any submitted material.

 

Andy

 

This message has been edited by mojosaur on 07-24-2001 at 10:54 AM

[Gulliver]

Originally posted by mojosaur:

For those who can do it, I'm sure its pretty easy........but, hello, its who you know that determines the rest, right? Politics.

 

Most of you know this but before you submit any work on the internet OR ANY PLACE ELSE check the fine print you may give up the rights to any submitted material.

 

Andy

 

 

This one must be the 13000's post on this forum... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif!!

So everybody, look-out!

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

 

 

 

This message has been edited by Gulliver on 07-24-2001 at 11:11 AM

[mojosaur]

Whatever you are smoking give me some......for the rest of you who followed the link, the contest works like this if they like your mix you get $1000. and they put it on the album, LOL I'm falling down laughing. Get those entries in, fast, Gulliver.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

And I'm sure the release and "registration" takes care of any other claims you might have.

 

 

 

 

This message has been edited by mojosaur on 07-24-2001 at 11:57 AM

[Bobro]

Originally posted by mojosaur:

Whatever you are smoking give me some......for the rest of you who followed the link, the contest works like this if they like your mix you get $1000. and they put it on the album, LOL I'm falling down laughing. Get those entries in, fast, Gulliver.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

And I'm sure the release and "registration" takes care of any other claims you might have.

 

 

 

Dang, you're right- almost. Looks like $1,000 for each of the four winning remixes and "Grand Prize winners SHALL BE ELIGIBLE for the inclusion and placement of their contest submission materials on a soon to be commercially released Public Enemy Album."

 

Yeah I'm all tied up in knots about the possibility of some gangsta DJ copping my fresh beats. I'm all geared up for my brand of Hip-Hop stardom with a cuckoo-clock around my neck and an orange traffic pylon for a hat.

 

Anyway that's not the point- the point is, we were having a discussion about Rap, a kind of music I'm not very familiar with and I like to peek under the hood (pun not intended) of all kinds of music. If you like working on engines, you'll pop the hood on a Ferrari or a Yugo or a Hummer, especially if you have an idea how to hot-rod it to your own tastes, hehe.

 

I'd like to hear the Dansouth Neo-Baroque remix of "B-Side Wins Again" for example. Why not?

 

-CB

[mojosaur]

Here are the rules from the site:

 

 

Grand Prize winners will be eligible for placement, album credit and One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) for each selected song that is included on the next Public Enemy album released.

 

 

So I'm totally right.......grand prize winners are only eligible to be selected. If you get selected its $1000. bucks and they take the cut for the CD. Thats a rip-off...as for under the hood, I totally agree.....

 

Andy

 

 

 

This message has been edited by mojosaur on 07-24-2001 at 04:08 PM

[Bobro]

Originally posted by mojosaur:

 

So I'm totally right.......grand prize winners are only eligible to be selected. If you get selected its $1000. bucks and they take the cut for the CD. Thats a rip-off...as for under the hood, I totally agree.....

 

Andy

 

 

Yeah, that's what I was saying, "eligible" is of course no guarantee, so the prize doesn't necessarily necessarily include a spot on the album. No disagreement, I thought that your post was implying that the prize automatically included being on the album but now I've reread your post.

 

But I'm just having fun, if there were a 12-tone tone-row remix contest I'd go for that too. There's no requirement to submit your remix at all, I thought maybe some musicians here might want take a shot at this Public Enemy thing just for the heck of it, or to demonstrate how easy (or difficult) it is, or for the sheer entertainment value of hearing famous rappers rap to von Webern and yodelling samples- I bet some rappers do things like that just for fun.

 

 

-CB

[mojosaur]

Sure I know where you are coming from.......I'm all for learning......I might try it but not submit it. Peace,

 

Andy

[alphajerk]

man, this is fucking cool as shit.

 

wassup with the negativity? it would be a grand that i didnt have before.

[mojosaur]

But its worth much more than a grand......part of being a pro is getting paid properly for your work. The attitude you describe is the reason so many musicians and other artists have trouble making ends meet, and record companies are able to take advantage of them...I don't think this is news.

[Steve LeBlanc]

I have to agree with Mojosaur here...people are waiting to rip you off around every corner...if you create something (anything) that is worthy enough to be put on a CD that is released and sold...you should obviously be making more than $1000. It's a matter of principle.

 

For the time being I choose to make my music available free on the internet...but a bunch of greedy little bastards aren't profiting from it either...to me that's important http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif. If my music really proves to be worth more (sound quality and all http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif) then people will fork out the money to buy our CD when it's ready.

[Bobro]

Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc:

I have to agree with Mojosaur here...people are waiting to rip you off around every corner...if you create something (anything) that is worthy enough to be put on a CD that is released and sold...you should obviously be making more than $1000. It's a matter of principle.

 

For the time being I choose to make my music available free on the internet...but a bunch of greedy little bastards aren't profiting from it either...to me that's important http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif. If my music really proves to be worth more (sound quality and all http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif) then people will fork out the money to buy our CD when it's ready.

 

You know I'll be buying your CD, my wife likes the music too.

 

I'm only spending a few hours on this and I think that's part of the hip-hop ideology. On the website, Chuck D mentions how old soul singles were coming out every two weeks. Working fast and dirty seems to part of the artform, correct me if I'm wrong. I figure if I can't "bust it out" between last night and this afternoon, I fail the test. I hadn't thought about the contest part, it's the "test" that's fun.

 

-CB

[alphajerk]

you are full of shit. its worth a grand because thats what they are offering for it. i doubt timbaland will be entering in the contest or any other producer who can get $50k for a track... and i REALLY DOUBT either of you can get more than a grand from PE or YOU WOULD BE DOING SO ALREADY! prove me wrong and let me know what tracks you have already done for them... just because they use it for an album doesnt make it worth more than that, in fact the exposure you would receive from it makes it worth more than a grand if you got your business side together on future projects.

 

dont be so negative, this is a cool thing they are doing and I BET that if you did submit something, you wouldnt get it on anyways... quit yer bitching.

[Steve LeBlanc]

Watch the fuck out Alphajerk...don't be so jumpy.

 

I wasn't bitching...just telling it like it is.

 

I have made MORE than 50k on rap tracks, not for PE but guys who've made just as big a name for themselves...assuming I'm just a whining wannabe is not cool.

 

I don't need the fucking exposure...in the circles I've worked in it's well known that my tracks are worth more than $1000. If some kid really wants to try to make a grand in hopes of some magical exposure that might make him rich in the future then more power too him. GO FOR IT!

 

I don't have to advocate it though...I think it's a rip off if they get a smokin track that gets radio play, etc.

 

Right or wrong...I'm just giving my opinion...no need to come in and try to "School" me.

 

I'm not saying PE are being fucked up either...but lawyers are always trying to rip kids off.

 

Whatever...

 

 

 

This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 07-25-2001 at 03:50 PM

[mojosaur]

Easy there a-jerk..........did you enter?????

[alphajerk]

well steve, i guess its pointless for you to enter then. i dont think the contest is really for people like you [that i have never heard of] who claim to make for than $50k on a track. its for some kid banging beats in his/her bedroom that might otherwise never have a chance to put their shit to PE tracks, its a very cool thing and i dont think in the least they are "ripping someone off". if someone is already putting out banging beats they will be known about already. who said i was trying to "school" you??? and telling who like what is? is a freaking contest and they lay down the rules, you either play or you dont but dont bitch about the rules when you dont even have concern to enter.

 

i might just send something in for fun... doesnt cost me anything and a couple hours wasted is hardly much time, i got one of the vox tracks to check out already. if i can get away from mixing all this other shit... but this contest really isnt for me either.

 

 

so whats a skinny cracker like you doing hiphop tracks for [and actually getting paid for them]? im assuming thats you in the pic on your jamfree site. lmao.

[Steve LeBlanc]

haha, LYAO all you want, you still don't know shit about me.

 

Either way, if I can't give an opinion without your self-rightious ass jumping all over it, simply put...Fuck you.

 

I never said the contest was for people like me...I'm not interested in doing that shit anymore...I quit for a good reason.

 

if someone is already putting out banging beats they will be known about already.

 

Well that's just bullshit and you know it...there are so many kids that make killer beats...you know as well as I do it's who you know...yada yada.

 

I haven't even read the contract so I'll plead ignorance regarding this PE contest to a certain degree...but just so you know where I'm coming from (why the fuck I have to explain anything to you, I don't know):

 

ESPN.com held a contest last year that asked kids to compete to get original music on their TV show. It said in the contract that they get to not only put the tune on TV without paying shit but also that they would own the rights to your material in perpetuity...now where I come from that's a raw deal even if it is for fun.

 

Why you have the need to defend this PE contest is beyond me...I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt...either way you're wrong to jump all over me over it.

 

so whats a skinny cracker like you doing hiphop tracks for [and actually getting paid for them]? im assuming thats you in the pic on your jamfree site.

 

Yes that's me, probably the skinniest of all 'Crackers' (rude to call me that), if you really want to know who I've worked for in particular, either do the research yourself or send me an email.

[HolyTerra]

DINGGGGGGGGGG!!!!! Round's over! Back to your corners! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[alphajerk]

it aint rude to call you a cracker. im a cracker, you're a cracker. im just fucking with you. damn yer is testy.

 

and if EVERYONE is making killer beats, then why the fuck is puffy's beats so weak. shit, a LOT of beats i hear on mtv these daze are weaker than my piss right before a drug test.

 

so i look at it as a contest for some bedroom bangers to have a lot of fun [REGARDLESS, how many people have put out RAW vocal tracks like this for AYNONE to put shit under freely available on the net??? even if you dont enter, its a cool thing to play with fucking around in the studio]

 

i admire your passion dont get me wrong. i have similar thoughts on this fucking industry but sometimes ya gotta just say "who cares?"

 

thanks bobro for the post though, im grabbing the tracks as they put them out, i dont really care if i get one done in time for submission [just have TOO many other things to do myself] but these daze you dont need it to be on an album... mp3, aw yeah. just put it out like a virus on the net with PE attached to the song...

 

you commented it was a ripoff. ripoff for who? what principle?

[synthfoolsynthfool.com]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does remixing a Public Enemy song answer the question of "If Hip Hop is so easy... "??

 

Also, notice how almost every one of these rap threads starts out defensively? The topic starter first asks a question antagonizingly and then is amazed why there's attitude afterwards. Maybe if they started out with a question like "What do you like about Rap/Hip Hop?" and then ignored the haters. Then, I'd be more apt to believe that an argument isn't what the author intended to occur in the first place.

Telling someone that they're being negative for not entering such a contest and then saying that they'd probably not even place anyways, doesn't sound so encouraging.

 

What I see in rap is a lot of posturing and ego and there's not offered here to change my mind.

 

Is there an emoticon for a gold chain and a Lamborghini Diablo? ;-)

[synthfoolsynthfool.com]

Oops... that was meant to read-

 

"What I see in rap is a lot of posturing and ego and there's nothing offered here to change my mind.

[alphajerk]

if i have time before said contest is over i would surely enter it. what do i care if they posess all rights to said track, i dont give a fuck. its not something i would labor over for weeks on end. give me 4 hours sometime and a fat sack. a grand for 4 hours aint bad.

[Bobro]

Originally posted by synthfool@synthfool.com:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does remixing a Public Enemy song answer the question of "If Hip Hop is so easy... "??

 

Also, notice how almost every one of these rap threads starts out defensively? The topic starter first asks a question antagonizingly and then is amazed why there's attitude afterwards. Maybe if they started out with a question like "What do you like about Rap/Hip Hop?" and then ignored the haters. Then, I'd be more apt to believe that an argument isn't what the author intended to occur in the first place.

Telling someone that they're being negative for not entering such a contest and then saying that they'd probably not even place anyways, doesn't sound so encouraging.

 

What I see in rap is a lot of posturing and ego and there's not offered here to change my mind.

 

Is there an emoticon for a gold chain and a Lamborghini Diablo? ;-)

 

LOL, I was having fun "copping an attitude in the authentic style", home-boy-yee.

 

I figured the reference to the cuckoo clock around my neck and traffic-cone hat would obviate any misconceptions of rap attitude, sheesh. How about a chef's hat and a sundial- that may be more appropriate to the track I'm making, or even a kuchma and one of those carved stone 3,000-year Aztec calendars. Oh yes you can tell by my music I'm a hip-hop wannabe. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

Yeah, a kuchma and an Aztec calendar- that fits the music perfectly.

 

Since we were discussing rap, pro and con and mixed, those of us- like me- who have never done any hip-hop music might like to take a shot at it and this is a good way to do it.

 

I DO have an attitude about wholesale dismissals of ANY kind of music, here's my favorite bullshit statements I've heard (spoken seriously and aggresively, for crying out loud):

 

Jazz is just a bunch of wrong notes.

 

Classical music is just people trying to prove they're better than other people by showing off how many chords they know.

 

Opera is just screaming.

 

Classical musicians have no sense of rhythm.

 

Rock musicians have no sense of rhythm.

 

Those people just aren't musical (refering to a Balkan choral piece).

 

Anybody can do that (refering in different instances to Coltrane and Schoenberg).

 

As far as rap being easy, instead of theorizing I put myself to the test, at least as far as the music. Well this project is turning out to be easy- I made the track in one lite day's work and when they finish jackhammering across the street this evening I'll polish it up a bit and mix it down.

 

What did I learn? Well, it is probably a virtue of the rapping track itself, but the musical ideas came immediately, harmonies and timbres were strongly implied in the acapella. The actual musical work of improvising riffs and synthesizing neato sounds was a matter of first-takes, wham-bam. I learned (confirmed rather) that as far as ideas and performance I'm very fast but as far as sheer speed and efficiency with software, both the computer/software setup and I just plain suck.

 

I realized that I don't know jack shit about the "authentic" approach using vinyl and turntables. I realized that the live acapella rap I heard on the back of a bus in Central LA, complete with "samples" and "drum machine" sounded a lot better than pretty much any recorded rap I've ever heard.

 

For me personally, downloading the Public Enemy acappella directly answered the question "if it's so easy...", but only as far as making something that sounds more or less like a rap track and pleases me. It may be very hard indeed to make something that pleases real rap fans, that remains to be seen.

 

Musikhaus Thomann just delivered my copy of Samplitude as I'm writing, complete with 320 page manual, I'll be on and off the forum all day to keep my sanity.

 

Is there an emoticon for a lei and a Yugo?

 

-CB

[mojosaur]

Maybe they want something that sounds nothing like a rap track......and what if its a big success? Yes, you might get known as the person who produced the track., but you also might get known as the sucka who signed off on the terms, or got ripped off entirely.....granted, for the right player it might be just the break you need. But its thinking like that which has got the record business in the condition it is now.....the only way the Dixie Chicks make money is by touring and they got the best deal Nashville has to offer.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Bobro:

As far as rap being easy, instead of theorizing I put myself to the test, at least as far as the music.

 

Please tell me that you're gonna post it when it's done...having heard a bunch of your other stuff, I am way interested to hear what you did!

 

As far as I can tell, rap and hip hop are next-door neighbors to funk - at least that's where I perceive the strongest roots to be. Like Dr. Bobro, I felt the need to play around in the genre to see what came out at the other end of the assembly line. I ended up with a bizarre little tune that I had a ball putting together - I'd love to hear what y'all think. I think that I may have leaned a little too heavily towards the funk side... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

I encourage any of you who have busted some phat beats ( http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ) to break them out as well...let's hear what you've got! I think that it'd be interesting to have people support their points with an MP3 file. I mean, a good argument only goes so far - let your music talk for you!

 

dB

[alphajerk]

in true hip hop style stealing from the best. click here for HIghFI and LOwFI

 

hey, im all against the industry butt fucking the artists but i dont think anyone is signing a publishing or record deal by submitting a song. although getting the grand prize might get them one with a little bit better megotiating [typo but i think its more fitting] power.

[Steve LeBlanc]

No big deal Alpha, I was having a little fun and not taking this as seriously as you might have thought...I wasn't in a good mood yesterday and relieved a bit of that frustration here.

 

It's just a silly contest...I was just pointing out there are theives out there and if one of you came up with a track that was really incredible (by rap standards), I think you might be disrespecting yourself to give it away.

 

I didn't mean to come off as negative...I'm sorry you read so much into that.

 

Let's move on.

 

P.S.

I tried to listen to your track but MP3.con doesn't allow direct links to files...what is your MP3 page url?

 

This message has been edited by Steve LeBlanc on 07-26-2001 at 01:24 PM

[Bobro]

Just sent the Ruff Mix to Dave. I think the track is at least...fairly loud. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Any suggestions Dave would be welcome.

 

Don't really know the roots of rap, but I guess they're in mostly in funk- James Brown one-chord jams. Funk is a fertile source- Woogman in de Jungle is Elektro-Funk? Dave-Funk? Anyway cool sleazy synth and really good backing vox. The lyrics are obviously descriptive of a real person- I suspect that people in general are more readily open to rap/reciting that tells a story or describes a person. Some rap, like Public Enemy, seems to be partly in code and often very oblique, which I also like.

 

The purely acapella stuff, with a guy doing beats vocally, must be one of the pure forms of rap, as well as truly improvised lyrics. I don't think anyone whose heard that kind of thing done well live would say "anyone can do that", even if they didn't like it. Especially in the environment, it just sounds good.

 

Where does it all fit in with keyboards- funk players speak with Rhodes and synths, those "talking" filters and wah pedals are definitely related to the human voice. A good Clav player really raps and recites I would say, and reading the threads about emulated and sampled instruments, that tangible speaking quality seems to be the main thing players are looking for.

 

Whoops it's 2 AM, off to bed, good night,

 

-CB

[alphajerk]

UMU is the page link. Rapology [remix] is the song.

 

This message has been edited by alphajerk on 07-26-2001 at 08:29 PM

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by alphajerk:

man, this is fucking cool as shit.

 

wassup with the negativity? it would be a grand that i didnt have before.

 

THAT's the attitude.... MUSIC, Bravo !!

 

(Yeah, we have rights to defend, but aren't we here because of the inner voice asking us to do it?) It surely is worth a couple of hours -no more than IT- ... and a "grand" http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

------------------

Gustavo G Lozada

 

Moderador de:

MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo

"La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología"

 

GusTraX @yahoo.com

 

This message has been edited by GusTraX on 07-26-2001 at 10:20 PM