Revamping the rig (for my Floyd tribute band)

[Jim Alfredson]

I've been a member of a great Pink Floyd tribute act based here in Michigan called Echoes of Pink Floyd. It's a fun band with cool lasers and great musicians.

My rig for the last four years or so has been very simple. I use the Hammond SK Pro for organ and the occasional Solina string, synth bass, and EP sounds. Everything else is done on the Kurzweil Forte7.

I want to transfer all my sounds on the Forte to the K2700. I'm hoping to do that soon. They will load right in but will require some tweaking, but I'm looking forward to having more real estate and using the pads to trigger samples instead of tying up keys doing that, as I'm doing now.

I'm thinking of adding a third board to the mix in order to give me even more real estate and cover some of the analog sounds. Even with the full 88 keys of the K2700, I will need to use the VARIATION button to switch between, for example, the evolving analog chordal pad of Welcome To The Machine, to that big nasty lead sound within the same MULTI. There simply isn't enough room to have both sounds active at the same time.

However, if I have a third board, I could either play that big nasty lead sound on that board or MIDI it to the Kurzweil and use it as a controller to play the sound from the Kurzweil without having to fiddle with the VARIATION button.

So my requirements for the third board are:
1) 61 notes unweighted (better for analog leads and such)

2) analog or virtual analog

3) capable of a wide variety of sounds

4) good MIDI controller ability

So I have four options, all of which are boards I own currently.

 

The first option is the Prophet 12 which I have used in this rig in the past. I'm still leaning towards that, especially since I already programmed some of the sounds I would need on it. That's definitely a pro. A con is that it is DCO and thus not true analog. However that could be a pro as well. No tuning issues. More pros are that it's lightweight with a small footprint and it can do simple splits. However no onboard sequencer and very limited effects.

The second option would be the Oberheim OB-X8. Pros: It sounds massive and looks cool as hell. Cons: a big girl, tuning stability in multiple environments might be suspect, no onboard effects, no sequencer. It does do simple splits, though.

 

A third option is the Andromeda A6. Pros: Tons of polyphony, can create multiple splits across the keyboard, and has multiple outputs for independent processing, hugely programmable sequencer (On The Run anyone?), and can sound like almost any other poly. Cons: Heavy, big, onboard effects are not the best, and its over 20 years old. Will it be reliable on the road? They are basically unfixable if one of the ASIC chips goes out. Do I dare put it up for possible abuse outside the safety of my home studio? 

Fourth option: Arturia PolyBrute. Pros: new, stable, sounds amazing, onboard effects are amazing, wide tonal variety, onboard sequencer, splits. Cons: big, heavy, and... well that's about it. 

I'm leaning towards the PolyBrute. The Andromeda is attractive because of the MULTI mode; I could have pads and lead sounds set up in the same MULTI yet assign them to different outputs for independent processing, requiring less program changes. However it's reliability on the road concerns me.  

However the PolyBrute can do a two-way split, which should cover most everything I need to do. The onboard effects are stunning and really do help make it sound incredible. And it has a ribbon (as does the Andromeda) for synth lead fun.

Thoughts?

[CEB]

You know the boards.  You have great instincts.  I would follow your own hunch. The best ability is reliability.   I would use the Arturia.  Great clean internal FX are a huge plus.  

[ProfD]

Arturia PolyBrute reads like the perfect KB for the job. Have a blast.😎

[stoken6]

Do you need analog(ue) sounds beyond what the Kurz can provide? If not, why not choose a soundless pure-controller and 

3 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

MIDI it to the Kurzweil and use it as a controller to play the sound from the Kurzweil

I'm a fan of not spending more than you need to. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ProfD]

20 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Do you need analog(ue) sounds beyond what the Kurz can provide? If not, why not choose a soundless pure-controller and 

I'm a fan of not spending more than you need to. 

Jim isn't spending money on another KB.

 

Otherwise, a lighter-weight, 61-note KB as a MIDI controller triggering K2700 sounds could be an option too.

 

Aesthetically, the KB MIDI controller may not look as cool as the PolyBrute.😎

[niacin]

those Floyd leads are gonna need delay and other fx so given those 4 choices I’d be going with the Polybrute.

 

Also in a Pink Floyd tribute and using an SKpro I’ve similarly considered adding a third board at times, but the SKpro is a great MIDI controller and I can use it to play sounds from my second board.  So you could for example set up an external zone on it to play the Welcome evolving pad sound in the Kurz.

[Jim Alfredson]

4 hours ago, niacin said:

those Floyd leads are gonna need delay and other fx so given those 4 choices I’d be going with the Polybrute.

 

Also in a Pink Floyd tribute and using an SKpro I’ve similarly considered adding a third board at times, but the SKpro is a great MIDI controller and I can use it to play sounds from my second board.  So you could for example set up an external zone on it to play the Welcome evolving pad sound in the Kurz.

That's a great idea.

 

6 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Do you need analog(ue) sounds beyond what the Kurz can provide? If not, why not choose a soundless pure-controller and 

I'm a fan of not spending more than you need to. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

No, the Kurzweil really does cover all the basses sonically. But I have a lot of synths already. I would not be spending money on anything, just using what I already have.

[stoken6]

10 hours ago, niacin said:

the SKpro is a great MIDI controller and I can use it to play sounds from my second board

I like this idea. This is why clonewheels need wheels and configurable controller capabilities.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stoken6]

12 hours ago, ProfD said:

Jim isn't spending money on another KB.

 

5 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

But I have a lot of synths already. I would not be spending money on anything, just using what I already have.

Personally I'd go for the Prophet (because I can't get enough of *that* sound) - provided you can do any sequencing ("On The Run" etc.) on your Kurz. Definitely avoid the Andromeda - there's enough complexity with a Floyd show as it is (and iirc you're singing lead as well?) to risk equipment failure. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[benj2017]

I’m interested in this as well, I have the prophet rev 2 and it doesn’t have great midi capability. Any thoughts on a good true analog synth that has the ability to do splits and change midi channels, etc., on a per patch basis? The poly brute looks great, but as Jim said it’s pretty heavy.

[DanL]

I like ProfD's idea of using a midi controller on the Kurz, that way you have the real estate to lay out all the other sounds on the Kurz keyboard and play the lead from the controller. 

 

I've done my Floyd band with 2 boards in various combos (Kronos/Stage3, Fantom 08/Stage3), but 3 is preferred. Right now  I am using a Stage 3 and Wave 2, and a Viscount Legend for organ. I've done shows with just the 2 Nords, using the Stage for organ, but I prefer having the dedicated organ. 

 

For Machine, I have 3 sounds going on the wave, a synth bass in the lower part of the keyboard, the evolving pad in the middle, which is also layered into the synth bass zone, and the solina strings up top. The Stage does the noise hits that happen from time to time, and  the lead, which I have both synth parts layered together, with a super short slap back delay. . 

 

More challenging are the songs like Sheep and Dogs, that have so many different parts. I have 9 sounds for Sheep and 8 for dogs, not counting the sound effects. Fun fun stuff to program, you have to get pretty creative with how you assign the sounds and control them, but it's a blast to play! 

 

Here's a vid of us doing Machine. The audio isn't that great as it's from someone's cell, but you can get the idea of the parts I'm doing. Please forgive the clams lol. 

 

[The Real MC]

21 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

A third option is the Andromeda A6. Pros: Tons of polyphony, can create multiple splits across the keyboard, and has multiple outputs for independent processing, hugely programmable sequencer (On The Run anyone?), and can sound like almost any other poly. The Andromeda is attractive because of the MULTI mode; I could have pads and lead sounds set up in the same MULTI yet assign them to different outputs for independent processing, requiring less program changes.

 

I gigged the A6 since 2001.  It is my chameleon synth and has replaced many synths.  With MULTI mode it can pack a lot of power with a single program change, I assigned mix instruments with keyboard off so I can trigger them from an external controller without crowding up the A6 keyboard, and I assigned certain mix instruments to AUX outputs which are routed to better quality processing.

 

In 2015 I played a theatrical presentation of Pink Floyd's "The Wall".  The A6 got a workout and covered a lot of sounds.  I brought the Memorymoog and OB-X for certain sounds they were better at.  I think the A6 would be the best fit for the Pink Floyd catalog.  If you want to hear the A6 in action, search YouTube for "EPAC Pink Floyd The Wall"

I played all the orchestral stuff on "The Trial".  The guitar player's wife - who is an accomplished musician who plays in orchestras - was in the audience for that show.  Keep in mind that the band is now behind a brick wall and the audience cannot see us playing.  She was sure she was hearing tracks being played back.  The guitar player corrected her, he sat next to me and watched me play all those parts.

 

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Cons: Heavy, big

 

No bigger or heavier than the OB-X8.  I own both.

 

Quote

onboard effects are not the best

 

The delays, chorus, and short ambient reverbs are adequate.  For better modulated delays and reverbs with longer tails I used the AUX outputs to better devices.
 

Quote

its over 20 years old. Will it be reliable on the road? They are basically unfixable if one of the ASIC chips goes out. Do I dare put it up for possible abuse outside the safety of my home studio? 

 

Gigged my A6 since 2001, only failures were coin battery for patch retention (~15 year life), periodically reseating ribbon cables ("self edit"), and I built new ribbon cables.  It has been very reliable, never lost an ASIC chip.  Always have sysex backups of ANY synth.  There's a power-up mode using a soft button that overwrites the factory patches with user patches; this served as a backup recovery using another soft button on power up.

Tip: configure your A6 in "pass thru" mode for the pots.  The A6 pots were sensitive enough to cause "self-edit" due to subwoofers bumping them through radiating waves.

[MathOfInsects]

I do our Floyd project with two boards, but played a festival with a third one (Mojo) last month just because I had it there for a set with a different band. It was very freeing to be able to reach over and handle organ and even some keys stuff while leaving the other boards fully dedicated to the various specific requirements. I wouldn't do it every time, for reasons of old age and laziness, but would definitely do it again, which is more than I would have thought. 

[mcgoo]

On 9/7/2024 at 2:19 PM, Jim Alfredson said:

 However the PolyBrute can do a two-way split, which should cover most everything I need to do. The onboard effects are stunning and really do help make it sound incredible. And it has a ribbon... 

 

I thought hard about using my Polybrute for my Pink Floyd tribute band for the same reasons you stated. I started programming on it and was having a blast, especially with the 2 voice solo on Brain Damage. Ultimately decided I didn't want to gig the board. I like it sitting comfortably in my studio ready to go when inspiration strikes. 

 

The one funny thing about the Polybrute, and believe me, I love mine, is that I think it's just ok when it comes to recreating analog classics. I think it lacks the girth that you could pull out of your Oberheim. The stuff it shines on are more modern sounds with motion. Just my opinion. 

[JoJoB3]

13 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I do our Floyd project with two boards, but played a festival with a third one (Mojo) last month just because I had it there for a set with a different band. It was very freeing to be able to reach over and handle organ and even some keys stuff while leaving the other boards fully dedicated to the various specific requirements. I wouldn't do it every time, for reasons of old age and laziness, but would definitely do it again, which is more than I would have thought. 

Cool story.

"for reasons of old age and laziness,"

 

Say no more.

[Jim Alfredson]

On 9/8/2024 at 11:30 PM, mcgoo said:

 

I thought hard about using my Polybrute for my Pink Floyd tribute band for the same reasons you stated. I started programming on it and was having a blast, especially with the 2 voice solo on Brain Damage. Ultimately decided I didn't want to gig the board. I like it sitting comfortably in my studio ready to go when inspiration strikes. 

 

The one funny thing about the Polybrute, and believe me, I love mine, is that I think it's just ok when it comes to recreating analog classics. I think it lacks the girth that you could pull out of your Oberheim. The stuff it shines on are more modern sounds with motion. Just my opinion. 

I've been getting really good lead sounds out of it for Shine On You Crazy Diamond and Welcome To The Machine.

I had another thought last night while falling asleep: What about a Kurzweil K2061? It could be my 'backup' in case things go horribly wrong, since it would be compatible with the K2700 and have all the same programs / multis on it.

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

I had another thought last night while falling asleep: What about a Kurzweil K2061? It could be my 'backup' in case things go horribly wrong, since it would be compatible with the K2700 and have all the same programs / multis on it.

Darn that dream. 🤣

 

No need to throw money at another KB when there's no shortage of tools in your KB warehouse already.😎

[Jim Alfredson]

45 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Darn that dream. 🤣

 

No need to throw money at another KB when there's no shortage of tools in your KB warehouse already.😎

Who are you, my wife?!?

[J.F.N.]

47 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Darn that dream. 🤣

 

No need to throw money at another KB when there's no shortage of tools in your KB warehouse already.😎

 

[kpl1228]

On 9/7/2024 at 12:19 PM, Jim Alfredson said:

The second option would be the Oberheim OB-X8. Pros: It sounds massive and looks cool as hell. Cons: a big girl, tuning stability in multiple environments might be suspect, no onboard effects, no sequencer. It does do simple splits, though.

 

 

I never thought about the instability of a true analog synth in 2024. It's something to consider. I'm sure it's not as bad as in the 70's, but it might have some fluctuation with heat from lights, or cold, etc.

I think a good boutique smaller reverb pedal (OTO, for example) you could velcro to the top of the Ob-XA, with a simple hall reverb setting that you leave alone, would cover 90% of what you'd need. That;s what I would do if/when I spring for that awesome keyboard. And to replicate Floyd Mini-Moog leads, some delay too. Probably could get a small pedal, maybe programmable, for dual effects.

You may also want to consider the new Moog Muse. Comes with effects, and the Minimoog leads are probably more Floyd-accurate than Oberheim.

[Jim Alfredson]

Another option is to keep the Forte7 in the rig and just use it as the third keyboard. It is a monster. I'd rather have non-weighted keys for the synth stuff but honestly it isn't that big of a deal. And who knows... once I transfer stuff to the K2700 and remove the sample playback from the keys and assign them to the pads, maybe the real estate problem won't be an issue anymore. 

I take a certain amount of pride in doing the entire gig on two keyboards, utilizing the Kurzweil's incredible mapping features. It does virtual analog really well and of course is rock solid stable; no tuning issues to worry about. 

I think what I need to do is set up my rig and start floating various third keyboards in and see which one makes the most sense.