I need a new mixer - road-rack use - one-nighters - advice needed.

[Notes_Norton]

For over 35 years, doing one-nighters, I've used a Samson MPL 1204 mixer for live performance. Actually, I have 4 of them. I am a “The Show Must Go On” person, so if one breaks, I slide an identical one in the rack, and with the knobs set in the same place, the mix is in the ballpark.

 

They are very reliable but, they break. Perhaps once every year or two. One-nighters are notoriously hard on gear, and that's what I do. Up to 6 gigs per week, some in AC, some outdoors is normal. I hate to give them up, but the last one took over 6 months to get repaired, and this shop is the only one within 75 miles that will even look at them. They seem to be getting very tired.

 

New mixer requirements:

1. Rack mountable - standard 19" rack with a small footprint.
2. All inputs/outputs in the rear of the unit except the headphone
3. Outputs for mains (XLR) and monitors (1/4” phone is OK)
4. FX loop or internal FX (reverb and perhaps a little delay)
5. 11 inputs that all need to be mixed in mono or panned center.

 

We are a duo, but we both sing and I also play sax and flute in our mics. Mrs. Notes and I both play guitar and use amp sims. She plays a Buchla synth and I play a wind MIDI controller, and between the two of us we have 4 MIDI sound modules. I make my own backing tracks and have two outputs, it's stereo, but I mix both center. Stereo didn't work for us, there is always someone near one speaker or the other. We have another mic for anyone who wants to use the PA. They can't use ours, because if they are coming down with a cold, and we catch it, it does a disservice to the next customers. That makes 11 channels. So a 12 channel mixer is in order. 

 

Looking at Sweetwater, Guitar Center. Thomann, and anyone else I can think of, there seems to be only one candidate, a Behringer Eurorack Pro RX1202FX. I've never owned any Behringer gear, and I have heard some bad things about the brand. I wish I could find something by Mackie, Alesis, or another 'pro' brand that would fit my requirements. 

 

It seems most of the mixers for sale are for desktops with the inputs on the front panel, and lots of real estate for long sliders. Good for desktop or FOH mixing, but not what I need.

Does anyone know of another answer to my dilemma that isn't Behringer? Note: It must be analog, if a problem, I need to get to tweak knobs immediately, not wait for a touch screen to open, and then try to find the right screen with the right control. In this case, simplest is best.

 

If not, are the unreliable reports about Behringer accurate? If I go this way, I'll probably get at least 3, perhaps 4, so if one breaks and needs to go into the shop, I'll still have one and a spare.

 

I hate to give up my old friends, and this is preliminary research, but they seem to be going in more frequently, and the guy who fixes them seems to be taking longer and longer to get to them. I've had good service, and it's probably time to put them out to pasture.

 

THANKS!!!

 

Notes ♫

Here's a picture of my road rack. Any new mixer cannot be bigger than the Samson.

 

 

 

[Philbo King]

Both Behringer and Mackie have rack mount mixers that are 'knobless', using a pad for control.  Both, from all accounts, are quite robust and reliable.

 

[Notes_Norton]

4 hours ago, Philbo King said:

Both Behringer and Mackie have rack mount mixers that are 'knobless', using a pad for control.  Both, from all accounts, are quite robust and reliable.

KNOBLESS -- GET ME OUT OF HERE.

I'm on stage, I'm singing and playing saxophone, or guitar, and I notice the PA ringing. I can use a fraction of a second glance, keep my eyes on the audience, and adjust the knob. 

OK now picture a touch screen. First wake up the display, then look at the screen because you can't feel where the knob is, and then slide your finger - oops! too far - back again, where was I in the song, I lost my place.

 

I need 11 channels in a 4 rack space or less space. I need knobs, and nothing that relies on batteries. 

 

Touch screens might be good for studio folks, or the FOH sound person with a band, but not for musicians.

Imagine a guitar player with touch screens instead of knobs. Need a little more or less volume? My hand knows where the knob is. I don't even have to look. That's how I want all my gear on stage.

 

Sadly, I look and look and can't find anything except the Behringer, and I'm a little leery of that brand. I've had no experience with it, but I've heard some stories, plus the low price point is unsettling.

 

Notes ♫

[zxcvbnm098]

Can you get a bigger rack to accommodate a larger mixer footprint? I see Peavey makes a 16x that would fit the bill other than

the height?  

 

[Notes_Norton]

Thanks. The rack is too big already. Four rack spaces is all I can afford. Peavey usually makes road-worthy gear, though.

 

We do one nighters. That means for every gig it's put the gear in the minivan, haul it in to the venue, set it up, play a few hours, pack up, haul it out to the minivan, drive home, and bring it back in. Add to that 2 guitar cases, 1 sax case, two wind MIDI controller cases, one synth case, two speaker cabs with 15" woofers, stands, cables, pedals, and so on, I'm looking for ways to lighten the load.

 

Our new rep at Sweetwater advised against the Behringer, saying he didn't think the quality was there for one-nighters. He also said he can't find anything else that would do. The mark of a good salesperson is that he forfeited the commission on 3 of these units, because he didn't want to sell me something that isn't right for me.

 

Alesis made something similar, but they discontinued it.

 

It's beginning to look like there is nothing out there for us. All the new mixers have 3 things that may be good for desktop or studio applications, but not for gigging musicians who don't have a FOH sound person: (1) small footprint (2) inputs all in the back (3) knobs instead of touch screen.

 

I wrote to Samson, and there are two authorized repair facilities about 100 miles from me. One answered already, for old gear they charge $350 plus parts. I guess they don't want to repair old gear. I haven't heard from the other yet.

 

It's beginning to look like I need to keep my eye out for used Samson MPL1204 mixers, so that I have enough spares to make a 6 month repair turn around not an issue.

I'd sure like some newer gear though, there are a lot of miles on these things.

 

Notes ♫

 

Behind the scenes. Everything is tagged for a quick replacement. If all the knobs are set the same, the mix and EQ will be in the ball park after the switch.

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

Why not just purchase another samson mixer.  They are on ebay. 

[Bill H.]

3 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

Our new rep at Sweetwater advised against the Behringer, saying he didn't think the quality was there for one-nighters. He also said he can't find anything else that would do

All I've got is that I've been using a Behringer mixer for karaoke for years, and it's been rock solid. Bought it a couple of years before lockdown  - maybe 2018? - and with the exception of 2020 it's been in use 2-5 nights a week. This is rough service too - on top of a 4 space rack in club environments.  Like you I need physical controls, and with the wildly different vocal qualities of the singers and backing tracks I'm constantly on the EQ knobs and channel faders. 

 

If it's a fit in every other way except the name, you might give one a try. All you're going to be out is a couple hundred dollars. I can't remember what mine cost, but it was around that. 

 

[Notes_Norton]

On 7/19/2024 at 10:18 AM, Delaware Dave said:

Why not just purchase another samson mixer.  They are on ebay. 

 

The low price, salesperson discouragement, customer reviews, a couple of form folks with bad experiences and the fact that there are only 2 tone controls (I like a midrange for my voice which doesn't have a lot of edge), got me to thinking, “What's the rush?”

 

So that was my final decision — for now.

I bought a supposedly “perfect working order” Samson on eBay from a vendor with a 99.8% rating.

 

If I see another good deal, I'll snap it up.

 

This will allow me to bide my time, hopefully the mixer folks will realize touch screens are not for gigging musicians. I wrote to a few explaining why. 

 

Small footprint — real knobs — inputs/outputs in the rear — these are requirements for gigging musicians who can't afford a dedicated sound person.

Notes ♫

[cphollis]

I know you said analog but .... it's a digital world.

 

The Behringer XR-18 and similar are ubiquitous in this category.  It's pretty bulletproof stuff that I've worked with for many years.  Great resale value as well.

 

I hate mixing on tablets as much as the next guy, so I got one of their cheapo control surfaces (Behringer X Touch) that lets me mix conveniently with the mixer rack at a considerable distance via a short ethernet cable.  Nice workflow once you learn it, macros if you want them, etc. 

 

Having a separate control head saves mucho rack space and helps with stage positioning.

 

Also, the Behringer FX aren't half bad, so those rack units might come out as well.

[The Real MC]

A substitute mixer with the same footprint and features of the Samson is going to be very hard to meet.  Especially a new product.  And fewer new products are made in rack mount format anymore.

 

If repair frequency is a concern, then don't go Behringer.  Many repair shops will no longer service Behringer products.

 

If rack mount and reliability are the prime factors, you may have to settle for something larger than 6U spaces.

 

1 hour ago, cphollis said:

I know you said analog but .... it's a digital world.

It may be a "digital" world, but analog mixers are starting to make a comeback.

[Notes_Norton]

21 hours ago, cphollis said:

I know you said analog but .... it's a digital world.

IMO, it's sad when something new replaces the old instead of just adding to what already exists.

 

Electric guitars came around, but they didn't make acoustic ones obsolete.

 

Air Conditioners were invented, but they didn't make fans disappear.

 

Synthesizers were born, but pianos and organs still exist.

 

Sure, there are advantages to new technology, but in so many cases, they should exist with the old as an option. I'm not saying everything old should remain with the new. USB is much better than centronics and I see no need to bring centronics ports back.

 

Touch screens are wonderful, but everything doesn't need digital and touch screen. In fact, some things are worse, like automobile controls. You shouldn't have to take your eyes off the road to adjust the AC or turn on the headlights.

 

I haven't heard back (and probably will not) from Mackie, Alesis, and a few other companies that I wrote my letter to.

 

So I guess I'm stuck with 30 year old technology, with multiple copies, so that I can let them sit in the shop for months, because the busy repair techs don't like working on them. 

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[ProfD]

On 7/21/2024 at 9:06 AM, Notes_Norton said:

IMO, it's sad when something new replaces the old instead of just adding to what already exists.

Planned obsolescence has been in effect for a long time now. 

 

New technology can only add to the old existing technology up to a point. 

 

Eventually, the newer technology becomes more efficient, portable and convenient.

 

A digital mixer can significantly reduce the footprint of its analog counterparts; mixer, outboard gear, cabling and racks to contain it all.😎

[Notes_Norton]

16 hours ago, ProfD said:

A digital mixer can significantly reduce the footprint of its analog counterparts; mixer, outboard gear, cabling and racks to contain it all.😎

 

OK, but what do you do, in a live situation, when the mic starts squealing? Or when you have to make any other adjustment while you are also trying to sing and play?

 

With an analog, a quick side glance gives you the knob position, so you can immediately turn it without missing a beat. You can do this at first ring, before the squeal. The show goes on, at most you've missed one word in the vocals, and the audience doesn't even notice.

With digital, it might go like this, you hear the ring. Then you have to o take your face away from the mic, touch the screen to wake it up, look for the control (hopefully on the page that opens up), locate the slider with your eyes, then rub your finger on the slider. Note, you can't feel it, so you have to look. By then the ring has gone into a full feedback squeal, you've stopped the song you were singing mid-verse (or chorus), and the audience is hating the feedback squeal and irritated at you.

 

Digital has its place, but not in the live performance venue without a sound man, where the majority of musicians work.

 

Why can't we have both? Televisions didn't make radios obsolete. Electric toothbrushes didn't make manual ones obsolete. Air conditioners didn't make fans obsolete. Electric guitars didn't make acoustic ones obsolete. Synthesizers didn't make pianos obsolete. Wind synths didn't make saxophones obsolete (I have both). Drum machines didn't make drummers obsolete. Digital mixers should not make analog mixers obsolete. Sometimes new technology can coexist with the old, take a piece of the market, but not render the old to the grave.

And yes, planned obsolescence has been here for years, but that doesn't make it right. I could start a thread about corporate greed, but I don't think that's appropriate here.

 

Notes ♫

 

 

 

[The Real MC]

1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

Digital has its place, but not in the live performance venue without a sound man, where the majority of musicians work.

 

And those graphic touch screens are their Achilles heel.  They have a limited life.  When they break 5-7 years from now, good luck getting a replacement part.

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

Digital has its place, but not in the live performance venue without a sound man, where the majority of musicians work.

 

Why can't we have both?

 

Digital mixers should not make analog mixers obsolete. 

There are digital mixers with tactile faders. They haven't made analog mixers obsolete.😎

[Notes_Norton]

19 hours ago, ProfD said:

They haven't made analog mixers obsolete

 

Try finding a 12 channel mixer, rack mountable, with all the inputs/outputs in the rear, and a small enough footprint to put in a rack with a few other modules. 

 

As my Samsons are getting old, I would love to find a replacement. Instead, I keep repairing the old mixers every couple of years when one fails.

 

Digital mixers are making a gigging musician's analog mixer obsolete.
 

[ProfD]

17 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

Try finding a 12 channel mixer, rack mountable, with all the inputs/outputs in the rear, and a small enough footprint to put in a rack with a few other modules. 

 

Digital mixers are making a gigging musician's analog mixer obsolete.

As you mentioned above, the Behringer Eurorack Pro RX1202FX rackmount mixer meets the criteria. Your concern is build quality/reliability.

 

The Behringer RX1202FX should come with a manufacturer warranty. It's cheap enough to buy a spare. 😎

[Thethirdapple]

Did a quick, probably same results, interweb search of futility and in terms of new gear, only “consumer” or “prosumer” options which match the Samsons came thru. With faders as opposed to pots.

 

Alesis and B-ger

 

There were a few “boutique” mixers which came thru the algorithmic portal but seemed suspiciously similar to the B-ger gear. Wonder who is copying who???

 

 

 

 

PEACE

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[Notes_Norton]

22 hours ago, ProfD said:

As you mentioned above, the Behringer Eurorack Pro RX1202FX rackmount mixer meets the criteria.

It's only a 10 channel mixer, disguised as a 12. I need 11 channels.

 

Spares are no problem, reliability is. The Behringer has had too many reports of on the job failure. 
 

If the Behringer had a better reliability reputation, I could build a passive mixer to bridge a couple of synth modules together, and get along with 10 channels. But sadly, it doesn't. There are too many reports of failure, and doing one-nighters is notoriously hard on gear.

 

I've been gigging in this duo since 1985, and thanks to the fact that I buy top quality gear, and bring spares of everything I can, I've never missed or interrupted a gig.

 

Bringing a spare mixer is a big thing to carry, and more importantly, it can't be swapped out in a minute or two. More than a minute of down time is too much.

 

I have powered speakers, so if one fails, the show goes on. I bring an extra wind MIDI controller which can cover sax and guitar parts, and an extra physical modeling synth module is in the rack ready to be turned on. I need one computer, but I have two on stage and booted up all the time. I bring an extra guitar amp modeler/direct box. I have a suitcase full of every spare cable, power supplies, mic, and other likely to fail items. Of course, spare strings and reeds. 
 

All the equipment is top-notch and as bulletproof as is available. Buying a piece of cheap gear that is likely to fail on the job is not an option. The Samson I'm using was chosen for that. Other mixers had more functions, but my friend who owned the music store, did the research, and recommended this one, even though he didn't sell it.

 

This is something modern equipment manufacturers, studio owners/musicians, and home recording people don't understand about live performance: The show MUST go on. Planned obsolescence might be good for your profits, but it's deadly for mine.

 

There is an audience, venue owner, wait staff, bar staff, and others, all depending on our ability to deliver constantly and consistently. No downtime is allowed. I've gigged sick, mother checked my schedule before deciding on the date for dad's funeral, and since I went pro in the 1960s, I've never missed a gig nor had one failed due to equipment failure. Reliability in the gear I buy is one of, if not the most important requirement. 

 

So I'm stuck with aging mixers. Every few years something minor will break, and without obsolete chips, it's easy to repair. The problem is, it takes a few months for it to be repaired, because the only guy who works on them, is overwhelmed with more work than he can handle.

 

 

Notes ♫

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

2 hours ago, Thethirdapple said:

Alesis and B-ger

Alesis had a 10 channel disguised as 12, but it's no longer in production.

[cphollis]

23 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

 

Try finding a 12 channel mixer, rack mountable, with all the inputs/outputs in the rear, and a small enough footprint to put in a rack with a few other modules. 

 

As my Samsons are getting old, I would love to find a replacement. Instead, I keep repairing the old mixers every couple of years when one fails.

 

Digital mixers are making a gigging musician's analog mixer obsolete.
 

Having just gone through a similar process -- but for a full band -- I ended up gravitating toward the A&H CQ and SQ lines as good examples of digital mixers with enough tactile control to not drive me nuts in a performance situation.   I ended up with the SQ5, but I almost went for the CQ-18T

 

Like a performance keyboard, it's really about workflow.  What I found nice about their design was that it was a point-and-twist interface.  The color screen is large enough to easily see what you already have selected for the big rotary and three soft knobs.  If you want something else (e.g. reverb room size) you just point at the reverb FX, then the room size, then twist.  The integral wifi app is more of a backup mixing surface. 

 

Compared to the Behringer UI, it's like night and day.

 

As you can see, very rack mountable with easy access to i/o.  These are pro-level channel strips and FX, so I'd doubt you'd want any of your current outboard gear.  Mine is mounted it a cool horizontal rack with a drawer underneath, all on rollers.  Slick setup.

[Notes_Norton]

Good for you. I'm happy that it works for you and you love it.

 

Inputs on the front for me is a dealbreaker.

 

And what if the LCD screen goes belly-up? Do they guarantee it will be replaceable 5 years down the road?

 

A&H makes some very fine products, but as far as I have seen, nothing for my particular needs.

[ProfD]

On 8/26/2024 at 9:49 AM, Notes_Norton said:

It's only a 10 channel mixer, disguised as a 12. I need 11 channels.

Bummer.  I hate when it comes up 1 or 2 short.😁

 

On 8/26/2024 at 9:49 AM, Notes_Norton said:

This is something modern equipment manufacturers, studio owners/musicians, and home recording people don't understand about live performance: The show MUST go on. Planned obsolescence might be good for your profits, but it's deadly for mine.

Most newer gear is designed to make things easier for the end user.  Just a matter of incorporation and adaptation.

 

On 8/26/2024 at 9:49 AM, Notes_Norton said:

So I'm stuck with aging mixers. Every few years something minor will break, and without obsolete chips, it's easy to repair.

The bottom line is that a rackmount, analog mixer is best for your workflow. 

 

I doubt that manufacturers will continue to make those offerings.  Digital is the present and future.

 

Hopefully, you will be able keep those analog mixers up and running and/or repaired for as long as necessary.😎

[wineandkeyz]

Would you consider a different style of rack? Something like the 10x6 rack at the following link, where the mixer mounts on top with additional rack spaces on the front, would open up more mixer possibilities for you.

 

https://www.skbcases.com/products/10-x-6-compact-rolling-rig

[Thethirdapple]

Definitely not a pleasant outlook, that simplicity simply isn't profitable enough… Seems like a no brainer for a company to fill this perhaps now niche market.

 

My wife also prefers and sticks by her all “analog” rig for guitar and vocals. Even with the keys, its the turn it on and its ready to go attitude. Even in our small home studio she has a similar setup with a distinct yet still connectable set of gear away from anything “computer” related which I will happily nerd out on…

Technical issues are a complete vibe killer!

 

So I have gone to some length at getting multiple pieces of the same gear so as to fix and maintain some of it ourselves.

 

 

 

 

PEACE

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[Anderton]

I know this is not even close to a solution, but if you had electronics chops, you could easily build what you need. Mixers are drop-dead simple circuits compared to something like a synthesizer. I built a mixer for my recording studio and mixed the Forward Motion CD on it in 1985 (OMG, was that really almost 40 years ago?). The mastering engineer (Randy Kling in Nashville) said it sounded as good as anything coming out of a quarter-million dollar studio. And that was in 1985 dollars

 

Given your setup, the mixer could be mostly passive, with just a high-quality op amp as a summing junction. Preamps are a piece of cake these days. The EQ in my mixer was passive as well, so it was very Pultec-like.

 

And of course, if anything goes south, everything would be mountable and solderable. You could make the thing all-metal, use lockwashers on everything, never mount pots to a circuit board (only to a metal panel), and it would probably last forever. 

 

Know any people in your area who are good at electronics and have a drill press?

[Notes_Norton]

17 hours ago, wineandkeyz said:

Would you consider a different style of rack?

 

Yes, but I don't think it would help. I still need the knobs for quick adjustments. I still require rear inputs/outputs. I can plug everything into a strip at the bottom of the rack on a one space plate filled with appropriate plugs. Then I can run a short jumper from that rack to the gear. This serves multiple purposes. All the cables plug into a central location. That location is close to the ground. Doing one-nighters is tough on connectors, so by plugging/unplugging into the rack jack/plug, instead of the mixer and synth every day, saves the gear. Wearing out that phone or XLR plug that is soldered to a circuit board is a PITA to replace. Replacing a piece of gear bolted to a rack plate is easier.

 

 

14 hours ago, Thethirdapple said:

Definitely not a pleasant outlook, that simplicity simply isn't profitable enough

 

And when performing on stage, cuing the backing tracks, adjusting the PA when needed, all while I'm singing and/or playing sax, wind synth, guitar, and analyzing the audience, so I know what song to call next, simplicity is essential.

 

10 hours ago, Anderton said:

I know this is not even close to a solution, but if you had electronics chops, you could easily build what you need. <...snip...>

 

Know any people in your area who are good at electronics and have a drill press?

 

Nope. Don't know anyone who would do that. I have a friend who repairs stereos, TVs, and other consumer electronic gear, sells gear, and does installations for commercial stores. He won't even touch pro music gear. He's already overextended.

 

I have some electronic experience, I took it in college, and one of my two non-music jobs, when I was seeing what it was to be normal, was a cable TV system technician with a field engineer title (to impress the clients). 

But I'm overextended, too. I'm always learning new songs for my duo, and making the backing tracks from scratch (drums, bass, and comp parts). I write aftermarket products for Band-in-a-Box, and run the on-line business, too. And I gig for a living.

 

I'm not a Luddite, and I love modern tech. I remember schlepping Voice Of The Theater speaker cabinets and B3 organs to the gig. Replacing tapes in the Echo-plex or recording on a reel-to reel and so many other things are so much easier and better now. USB is better than centronics. LED screens are better than CRTs. Fuel injectors work better than carburetors. LED bulbs are better than florescent ones. Digital photography is better than old-fashioned film for me.

 

But it seems that we have come to a point where sometimes new tech is pushed on us as an alternative to what already works. I don't need a smart refrigerator or controls on touch screens that should be knobs on my car or my mixer. Others might, and that's good for them, but why don't I have the choice?

 

New tech doesn't necessarily have to make the old tech obsolete when there is still a valid reason to keep the old as well. My wind MIDI controller didn't make my saxophone disappear. The electric guitar didn't render the acoustic guitar to history. 

 

Sorry about the minor rant.

 

I hope the old Samson mixers stay repairable for a long as I am gigging, or until a suitable replacement for me comes along.

 

Notes ♫

[Anderton]

BTW to be clear the reason why the mixer sounded so good isn't because I'm fabulous, it's because I didn't need to put in anything other than the bare minimum needed to do the job. Fewer active components = less noise, less distortion. It would be the same for live. 

 

 

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I'm not a Luddite, and I love modern tech. I remember schlepping Voice Of The Theater speaker cabinets and B3 organs to the gig. Replacing tapes in the Echo-plex or recording on a reel-to reel and so many other things are so much easier and better now. USB is better than centronics. LED screens are better than CRTs. Fuel injectors work better than carburetors. LED bulbs are better than florescent ones. Digital photography is better than old-fashioned film for me.

Reads like your love for modern tech ties directly to how it fits within your particular situation and/or preferences.

5 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

But it seems that we have come to a point where sometimes new tech is pushed on us as an alternative to what already works. I don't need a smart refrigerator or controls on touch screens that should be knobs on my car or my mixer. Others might, and that's good for them, but why don't I have the choice?

We always have a choice.  "Even if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"--Rush "Freewill".😁

5 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

New tech doesn't necessarily have to make the old tech obsolete when there is still a valid reason to keep the old as well.

New tech doesn't make it obsolete especially if old tech can be salvaged, rescued or repaired.

 

Regardless of new tech, the question becomes who gets to decide the validity of old tech and whether or not it should be kept.  Answer...end user.😎

[Mr -G-]

On 7/18/2024 at 3:07 AM, Notes_Norton said:

I make my own backing tracks and have two outputs, it's stereo, but I mix both center.

Do you use two inputs to mix the audio tracks to mono?

If so, make a passive stereo to mono mixer cable (it takes one cable and 3 resistors) and that would take 1 input less. Then you only need 10 channels and perhaps some more mixer options?

The additional input for whoever wants to use the PA, is it likely to be used at the same time as your singing mic? if not, you could have a A/B switcher box and save another input.