Move transformer to inside the MODX8?

[Mr -G-]

Hi, I wonder what problems one could encounter by moving the trasformer/wart into the chassis of a MODX8 (assuming there's some space, which I am not sure about).

Would that generate any induction noise in the audio?

I can't imagine overheating  would be an issue. Perhaps securing it safely in place is something that would need a bit of serious thinking?

Thanks.

[nursers]

I'm legitimately interested / enquiring - does the (relative small) MODX wall wart annoy you that much? It's elongated shape means it doesn't impinge other outlets etc...

[J.F.N.]

Looking at its layout I would be surprised if there is not a lot of space on the right side.

[Mr -G-]

2 hours ago, nursers said:

I'm legitimately interested / enquiring - does the (relative small) MODX wall wart annoy you that much? It's elongated shape means it doesn't impinge other outlets etc...

Of course, I have been putting up with it, but it is for sure an "annoying feature" (TM). Not only because it can be forgotten at home (I bought an extra one that I keep in the bag) but the cable seems so thin and flimsy. I am concerned that somebody will step on it and break it, or worse, catch it, pull it and damage the connector. (I can't imagine that the little hook to keep the cable tension relief is very secure).

[nursers]

I agree the cable itself is very flimsy - like you I have a spare for that reason

[stoken6]

I'm with @Mr -G- on this. The annoying aspects of a wallwart are:

1. Build quality. Low-voltage cables, plastic cases and barrel connectors are easily damaged - even with the strain relief things fitted to some keyboards. My early gigging career was characterised by regular failure/damage to external PSUs

2. Proprietariness (is that a word?) - each board needs a different PSU, so you need a spare of all of them. None of my gigging boards require a proprietary PSU, so I carry a single IEC spare cable. Much simpler.

3. Fixed cable length - difficult to extend. Some external PSUs have  "lump-in-the-middle with a detachable high-voltage cable" design which alleviates this somewhat. I've velcro'ed such a PSU with a IEC connector to my Rolls PM351, which is not a million miles from what G is trying to achieve.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Finale]

Seems to have plenty of space according to this video. Measure your external PS and then looking at this video you can figure out the space available in your unit and if it will be sufficient or not.

 

 

[Stokely]

Here's something much easier that may help--I've done this with the wart that goes with my monitor mixer.

Get some flex sleeving--this is the same stuff I use for my main snake (25 ft of it, about 3/4 or 1 inch diamter) as well as some stereo mini-snakes for 1/4" cables.  I bought some tiny diameter stuff for smaller cables and I found it works very well for a single wart cable.  Makes it stiffer, gives it a bit of weight and it won't tangle.   Far as I'm concerned, this is right up there with Lasko fans as the best thing I never used to know about for gigging  

This is an example, it's 1/2" so a lot bigger than you'd need for one power cable.

Granted it does nothing for the barrel connector, and if you are like me you'll buy a 2nd backup wart for your Modx just in case--the stuff Stoken6 brought up.

[Docbop]

6 hours ago, Mr -G- said:

Hi, I wonder what problems one could encounter by moving the trasformer/wart into the chassis of a MODX8 (assuming there's some space, which I am not sure about).

Would that generate any induction noise in the audio?

I can't imagine overheating  would be an issue. Perhaps securing it safely in place is something that would need a bit of serious thinking?

Thanks.

 

I'm no electronic type but I thought the issue is noise being caused by the transformer and wire runs off the transformer.   They use a wall wart to move that outside away from the circuit boards inside.   

[Delaware Dave]

Why not just velcro it to the back/top/side of the keyboard? 

[KuruPrionz]

It's super simple to test the viability of this project. Plug the transformer into the keyboard and plug the business end into an extension cord plugged into your AC outlet. 

Plug the synth into speakers or your recording interface. 

Open up the keyboard innards and set the transformer in there. If that causes hum (and it very well might!) then that answers why they put it where they did. 

If everything remains quiet then you might be able to do an internal mount. 

This is a small thing in the overall context of live performance, 3,000+ gigs in here. Been there done that. Guitarist so a little different approach but power supplies are generally similar. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

The reason to place the power brick outside the keyboard is, at least, double: for one side, it is easier to support any worldwide outlet frequency, voltage and power socket by just replacing the brick and adapter for the intended market. And, perhaps more important for the manufacturer, the electrical security certification is easier for a product which is powered by a low voltage than a mains connected one.

 

As always, money talks 🤨

 

BTW, my MODX6+ power adapter has a thing which I hate. The already thin wire gets more and more twisted as time goes by. Yes, I store it coiled on the bag pocket, and I take it out weekly, but I do the same with other adapters and the wires don't get twisted 😡

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, Jose EB5AGV said:

The reason to place the power brick outside the keyboard is, at least, double: for one side, it is easier to support any worldwide outlet frequency, voltage and power socket by just replacing the brick and adapter for the intended market. And, perhaps more important for the manufacturer, the electrical security certification is easier for a product which is powered by a low voltage than a mains connected one.

 

As always, money talks 🤨

 

BTW, my MODX6+ power adapter has a thing which I hate. The already thin wire gets more and more twisted as time goes by. Yes, I store it coiled on the bag pocket, and I take it out weekly, but I do the same with other adapters and the wires don't get twisted 😡

I have a cord that is permanently twisted, annoying!!!!

[Mr -G-]

35 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Open up the keyboard innards and set the transformer in there. If that causes hum (and it very well might!) then that answers why they put it where they did. 

If everything remains quiet then you might be able to do an internal mount.

Good idea! I just did that: I run the transformer around the keyboard (without opening it this time) and does not seem to induce any noise at all even when touching the panel, the screen and the connectors zone at the back.

I will try the self-wrap sleeve, I have not thought about it. In the middle of all this I wondered if it is worth opening the chassis drilling holes for the mains and miscalculating something that I might regret later...

I also got another transformer like a laptop brick which is the same voltage 12V and polarity (I think it was from an old monitor) and I might velcro that to an X stand. The cable in that seems much better than in the original wart.

Thank you all for your comments!

[Delaware Dave]

7 hours ago, Mr -G- said:

Good idea! I just did that: I run the transformer around the keyboard (without opening it this time) and does not seem to induce any noise at all even when touching the panel, the screen and the connectors zone at the back.

I will try the self-wrap sleeve, I have not thought about it. In the middle of all this I wondered if it is worth opening the chassis drilling holes for the mains and miscalculating something that I might regret later...

I also got another transformer like a laptop brick which is the same voltage 12V and polarity (I think it was from an old monitor) and I might velcro that to an X stand. The cable in that seems much better than in the original wart.

Thank you all for your comments!

 

My gemini module has a brick and i just velcro it to my keyboard stand.

[CEB]

I don’t own any lower tier Yamahas with external PSUs.  Does it generate any heat?

 

Some of my Roland bricks get a tiny bit warm.   Heat would be my first logical concern , but I know nothing.  I mount all power distro to my pedal boards.  

 

[J.F.N.]

14 hours ago, Mr -G- said:

Good idea! I just did that: I run the transformer around the keyboard (without opening it this time) and does not seem to induce any noise at all even when touching the panel, the screen and the connectors zone at the back.

I will try the self-wrap sleeve, I have not thought about it. In the middle of all this I wondered if it is worth opening the chassis drilling holes for the mains and miscalculating something that I might regret later...

I also got another transformer like a laptop brick which is the same voltage 12V and polarity (I think it was from an old monitor) and I might velcro that to an X stand. The cable in that seems much better than in the original wart.

Thank you all for your comments!

 

Or if you REALLY want this done, find a good music electronics guy in your area and pay him to do it. Back in the days I was travelling with a Juno 60, and as some of you may know they came from the factory with the mains cable fixed to the machine, highly inconvenient, so I had a three prong mains socket installed instead, at the same time I took the opportunity to add a MIDI to it and had an overhaul on the electronics in general on it as well. Unfortunately this machine, which was my 3rd Juno 60 and that I had the intention to keep for life, was stolen after a gig (the last gig I did... haha) in Paris in 2001, so much for that, HAHA!

 

[Mr -G-]

16 hours ago, CEB said:

Does it generate any heat?

I does not seem to get too warm, but I thought that inside the chassis there is little chance of any heat dissipating since there is no air circulation at all.

[CyberGene]

Before I started visiting this forum more often, I never thought that lack of internal power was bad. I’m not a professional musician though, so I guess that could explain it. I’m wondering how often gigging musicians have had issues with the external adapters?

[zxcvbnm098]

1 minute ago, CyberGene said:

Before I started visiting this forum more often, I never thought that lack of internal power was bad. I’m not a professional musician though, so I guess that could explain it. I’m wondering how often gigging musicians have had issues with the external adapters?

Speaking for myself, I've stepped on mine over the years cracking the housing a couple of times, and also forgotten it a couple of times, and then had one just go out before a gig. Plus they're never long enough....argh. Hate' em...

 

For those of us old enough to remember the late 70's and well into the 80's, all "professional" electronic keyboards came with internal power supplies. It wasn't until prices started to drop and manufacturing efficiencies were brought in that the infernal external power supplies started to showing up. 

 

Having worked in CE manufacturing a bit, I know why they make sense....getting UL approval is expensive and time consuming. Slapping a pre-approved external power supply into a unit is far simpler, faster and cheaper when you're trying to get something to market. But may personal opinion is that once you're spending, let's say  north of $1K or $1.5K for something, you're in semi-pro/pro territory that really should have an internal unit. 

 

But then again as time goes by, fewer and fewer customers expect an internal PS. People just get used to it I suppose.....

[EscapeRocks]

17 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Before I started visiting this forum more often, I never thought that lack of internal power was bad. I’m not a professional musician though, so I guess that could explain it. I’m wondering how often gigging musicians have had issues with the external adapters?

 

It's definitely a mixed bag.  I've been gigging continuously with boards that use external adapters for over 15 years.   I've never broken one, whether Yamaha, Roland, or Korg.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't like an internal P/S, but I haven't had any issues.

 

I do have two external adapters for each of my boards, so I always have a back up.  Just as I have extra audio and midi cables.

 

My equipment case has separate sections for various things: audio cables, midi cables, power adapters, power cables, and pedals.   I pack everything after a show just as carefully as I pack up my boards.

My power adapter lines, or power cables also don't just hang off my keyboard haphazardly.   They are routed carefully along the stand, with no strain.