Shhhh.... Touring musician pay

[Delaware Dave]

 

[obxa]

Cool and on point. One thing he didn't mention is per diem (meals, etc.). Between that and occasional crew meal, if you limit your vices,  you can sock away most of your check. 

[Baldwin Funster]

The fact that the artist could replace a musician in about 5 minutes with 1000 other wanna- giggers keeps the pay low.

[Reezekeys]

I stopped watching when he said playing for the “90s Legacy Artists” gets you $300-$500 a gig. He doesn’t mention 70s legacy acts (my current occupation!) - maybe because there aren’t any of those in Nashville? Or maybe he’s just never been involved in that scene. I can tell you that I know plenty of musicians in the New York area who can do a local wedding gig and make $500. Nobody I know is going to travel anywhere for $3-500. Is it an age thing? What younger players are willing to take now? I'm glad to be close to saying bye-bye to all this mess.

[Markay]

Sad to hear that the young top 1% are on the cusp of being offered the opportunity "of playing for the exposure" by current headline touring acts. Given what Taylor Swift grossed on her recent Australian tour there doesn't seem to be something quite right here. Life on the road is never easy, are we at the point where musos have to pay for the experience? Wonder what someone like Ray Cooper would say about this.

 

Link for those who may not be familiar with Ray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Cooper?wprov=sfla1

[Delaware Dave]

16 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Nobody I know is going to travel anywhere for $3-500

 

I'm in that range playing in my local band driving 30 minutes to the show ....

 

When i played in a wedding band 20 years ago and in a regional southern rock tribute band a decade ago my compensation exceeded what he is talking about, plus I was comped a room, airfare, and meals for the regional act.

[Docbop]

44 minutes ago, Markay said:

Sad to hear that the young top 1% are on the cusp of being offered the opportunity "of playing for the exposure" by current headline touring acts. Given what Taylor Swift grossed on her recent Australian tour there doesn't seem to be something quite right here. Life on the road is never easy, are we at the point where musos have to pay for the experience? Wonder what someone like Ray Cooper would say about this.

 

Link for those who may not be familiar with Ray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Cooper?wprov=sfla1

 

 

This is nothing new I've been hearing about big name artist paying young musicians on the cheap as long as I've been around music.   So instead of some cheap bar owner saying it's for "exposure", you have a big name artist doing it.    Then the artists that a just a major pain in the ass to work for that as one of the female legends of rock said... musicians are a necessary evil.     It sucks but sometimes you do it to get the resume fodder you need to get started.   

[The Real MC]

To paraphrase the realty business, it's a "buyers' market".

There's currently a big supply of guitar players, bass players, and drummers looking for the brass ring.  But the demand (artists) is low.  Artists can select the cheapest player(s) in the "buyers' market", regardless of talent.  If the player(s) cops an attitude, they can and will be easily replaced.

Replace "players" with "bands", "artists" with "record companies", and you have the same exploitation of the 1970s/1980s:

There's currently a big supply of bands looking for the brass ring.  But the demand (record companies) is low.  Record companies can select the cheapest bands in the "buyers' market", regardless of talent.  If the bands refuses to sign the one-sided indentured slavery record contract or cops an attitude, they can and will be easily replaced.

 

The music business has always been about exploitation.  There's also a dark side...

[Polkahero]

No different than the local live music scene where there's so many amateurs willing to play for next to nothing.  Brings the entire market down.  I gave up being the starving artist a long time ago, now I pick and choose where and who I perform with.

[zephonic]

On 5/4/2024 at 3:17 PM, Reezekeys said:

I stopped watching when he said playing for the “90s Legacy Artists” gets you $300-$500 a gig.

 

You stopped too soon. Right after that he says the big name artists pay up to $1500 per show.

[jazzpiano88]

.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, zephonic said:

You stopped too soon. Right after that he says the big name artists pay up to $1500 per show.

 

I heard that. "Big name artists"? That was actually the saddest part. Someday I might do a video about what legacy bands pay! We're far from "big names", but us oldsters aren't touring for $500 a gig, I can tell you that.

[AnotherScott]

On 5/4/2024 at 6:17 PM, Reezekeys said:

I know plenty of musicians in the New York area who can do a local wedding gig and make $500. Nobody I know is going to travel anywhere for $3-500. 

 

There's also the variable of volume. If you're offered a road gig where you're going to play, say, 20 shows over a month, you can't really compare that to staying home and doing weddings, because even the busiest wedding player is not going to get anywhere near 20 wedding gigs in a month. Looked at as bringing in $6k to $10k for the month is a lot more appealing than looking at it as $3-500 a gig. (And even more so if it's a time of year when local gigs are slow.)

[HammondDave]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

There's also the variable of volume. If you're offered a road gig where you're going to play, say, 20 shows over a month, you can't really compare that to staying home and doing weddings, because even the busiest wedding player is not going to get anywhere near 20 wedding gigs in a month. Looked at as bringing in $6k to $10k for the month is a lot more appealing than looking at it as $3-500 a gig. (And even more so if it's a time of year when local gigs are slow.)

‘true.. but you also don’t have to sleep on a crappy bus with a bunch of smelly musicians…

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

There's also the variable of volume. If you're offered a road gig where you're going to play, say, 20 shows over a month, you can't really compare that to staying home and doing weddings, because even the busiest wedding player is not going to get anywhere near 20 wedding gigs in a month.

Of course a full-time musician with bills to pay is going to look at the numbers and decide for themselves what’s worth doing or not doing. I consider myself lucky that I don’t have to make that kind of choice at the moment.

[ksoper]

I replied to a friend's Facebook post featuring this video recently.  The thing that jumped out at me is that the money that the vlogger quoted is identical to what was being paid 20 years ago when I was out there.  That's truly scary.  

[Baldwin Funster]

6 minutes ago, ksoper said:

I replied to a friend's Facebook post featuring this video recently.  The thing that jumped out at me is that the money that the vlogger quoted is identical to what was being paid 20 years ago when I was out there.  That's truly scary.  

Rumour was that David Bowie was only paying SRV $500 per show. Buying power wise that might be $180 today.

1Gigging musicians and

2 Street prostitutes are the only jobs that the pay doesn't go up with inflation. I'm guessing about the second one.

[AnotherScott]

Regarding the terrible pay being offered by the newest, hottest acts playing the stadiums... as discussed in another thread recently, these acts are largely playing to tracks. Which means they're largely paying these guys to mime. I don't know if that makes it better or worse.

[Stokely]

Yep, that's a big reason why I don't go out for shows.  I can listen to prerecorded music at home.

Other than a few corporate shows, my current band makes less per show than my frat circuit band did in 1989--and we were the cheapest of those bands in our area!  Granted, after truck rental and PA payment we ended up with the same per-show as I make now.  But that was WAY, WAY more work with (sometimes) 4+ hr drive times.  Just setting up the light trusses with all the power cables was the stuff of nightmares.  We set up now in less than 30 minutes in a pinch, lights and all.

As an aside, our guitarist is a machine--30+ gigs a month, most of them solo with his vocals and guitar.  He sometimes makes a LOT in tips--$800 one night.  More than the band does, usually, though we each got an extra $100 each at a recent gig from the tip jar.



 

[kpl1228]

On 5/5/2024 at 8:48 AM, Markay said:

Wonder what someone like Ray Cooper would say about this.

 

Link for those who may not be familiar with Ray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Cooper?wprov=sfla1

I'm sure whatever he would say would be totally overdone and obnoxious and annoying and would take away from what the main person was doing. Oh sorry, that's just him performing.

[ProfD]

As independent contractors, the pay artists and musicians can command is predicated on demand for their products/services.   

 

If the pay is too low or stagnant, artists and musicians need to figure out what they're doing *wrong* and/or what they can do to increase revenue. 

 

It's really no different from running any other kind of business.  That's the main problem for many artists and musicians.  They do not see themselves as a business. 

 

For some strange reason, too many people overestimate their worth in believing that with a modicum of talent, somebody should pay for it. Yeah....no.🤣😎

[Baldwin Funster]

3 minutes ago, ProfD said:

For some strange reason, too many people overestimate their worth in believing that with a modicum of talent, somebody should pay for it. Yeah....no.🤣😎

You're right. The guy that pressed start on the potato fryer should net twice the money as the guy that entertained you for 4 hours playing difficult music. (Sarcasm).

[BluMunk]

@ProfD is right.

However, there's also an issue I've run into (and admittedly perpetuated myself) where those who get some kind of foothold immediately turn around and maintain their success on the backs of other musicians.

 

A few months ago a local (regional) artist who has turned their success and personal brand into a full time creator gig at a broadcaster put out a call for other musicians to submit recordings to be used as music to score their content. Payment: exposure. (To be fair, this person did clarify that the alternative was to just use music that's already been paid for, so this is an opportunity that represents a little bit of effort on the part of the creator and does give the value of 'exposure'. Still... the ask just leaves a bad taste. It feels like it perpetuates the idea that exposure is more valuable than pay. I'll give you exposure so someone else in the future will pay you.).

[AnotherScott]

33 minutes ago, ProfD said:

That's the main problem for many artists and musicians.  They do not see themselves as a business. 

 

And the second half of that problem is that those who DO see themselves as businesses are still competing with those who don't.

[ProfD]

22 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

You're right. The guy that pressed start on the potato fryer should net twice the money as the guy that entertained you for 4 hours playing difficult music. (Sarcasm).

Seriously, I almost feel sorry for musicians who are blessed/cursed with the ability to play difficult music.   

 

Whether paid by the number of notes played and/or complexity of the music, Jazz and Classical musicians would be the highest paid performers. 😎

[CEB]

Back in the day the cash was okay.  But lack of medical and other benefits kicked my ass when I came down with Mono when on the road.  The pension, 401k and good medical benefits mean a lot.   
 

Apparently the cash is worse now. 

[kpl1228]

40 minutes ago, CEB said:

Back in the day the cash was okay.  But lack of medical and other benefits kicked my ass when I came down with Mono when on the road.  The pension, 401k and good medical benefits mean a lot.   
 

Apparently the cash is worse now. 

Yep exactly.

Pension and medical was a big reason I stopped with fulltime forever ago, when I was in my 20's and playing full-time with older lifers. Guitar player came to a rehearsal with an impacted molar and a face swollen he had no money to fix, AND a baby with a fever. Right then and there I saw the ghost of Christmas Future.

The very next day I went to the registrar at the local college and said "OK, I give up, you got me." Was content with weekend warrior from then on. Something to be said for medical and a pension, as you said.

However (to me, anyway) the big change in club gigs in the last 40 years has been that the clubs now have ALL the power. Musicians playing without contracts, gigs cancelled due to weather and no reimbursement for it, gig pay relatively unchanged over the decades, and musicians just take it. I know so many younger weekend musicians that just accept all of it as "the way it probably always has been." Uh, no. But, it's like at some point 20 years ago the weekend warriors, young and old, just accepted it all.

[Polkahero]

5 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

You're right. The guy that pressed start on the potato fryer should net twice the money as the guy that entertained you for 4 hours playing difficult music. (Sarcasm).

 

Music appreciation (either due to the influence of the rubbish being streamed or arts funding cuts in schools) is at an all time low.  Not all but I think the majority of the population out there just doesn't appreciate the time and effort it takes to become a true professional musician.  Many likely think it's a "fun" hobby and the really good players are all natural talent with minimal effort put in so why should they be paid well for it?

[ProfD]

Something else to 

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

And the second half of that problem is that those who DO see themselves as businesses are still competing with those who don't.

Add to the mix musicians who can afford to play for little or nothing. Those who have other sources of income and benefits along with other forms of entertainment help to dilute the market.

 

As it has always been, artists and musicians have to come up with something  that makes their existence an added value.

 

There are several factors that create a demand for music.😎

[jazzpiano88]

Music is one of those areas where the talent pool is literally 100x the employment pool. 

 

There are hundreds of equally talented singers and pianists for every person making a living at it.   It's a very big difference from being a physicist, engineer, or mathematician.   Raw musical talent is ubiquitous where other professions absolutely require training and degrees to admission (for the most part). Anyone who's been around churches knows about the talent pool of singers that never did anything professionally.

 

It's kind of like writing and poetry.   Literally everyone on earth writes stuff and makes poems.    Once the bell curve cuts off 95%, you have millions of writers and poets writing wonderful material undiscovered.