A.I. - I Just Bust A Nut In My Pants

[DeltaJockey]

25 minutes ago, Anderton said:

Not saying it can't, just that I haven't heard anything remotely like a well-crafted song, let alone a future "standard." Maybe it's just not getting the right prompts...

I think that's the case, I spent a little more time with it, getting know how to input in the right context. I think it will ultimately be like a lot of automation, garbage in, garbage out.

But once you learn how to drive it, the experienced musician is likely to get out something pretty convincing.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Everytime i read someone mentioning AI

all my feeble little mind registers is

 

"You can call me Al"

 

Perhaps not a bad listen to cheer up our hurtle towards the end of the world as we know it.

 

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

10 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I read an article this morning where corporates are already hesitant about using Adobe’s Firefly AI to generate their commercial artwork needs because about 12% of the artwork that Adobe trained firefly on is not royalty free material.  So, what transpires when laws catch up to the technology?

 

Hah Im glad the corporates are uneasy. Sorry here comes one of my long rambles but i saw a kernel of a tool of AI affect me back in the 90s.

 

I quit being a Graphic designer/artist back in the 90s as computers were making too big a splash into my realm of hands on artwork.

 

Desktop publishing was fucking up the specialness of an artist. Now any secretary could whip together a logo, a business card or a letterhead using the bosses computer. Sure maybe not so artsy back then but perfectly serviceable.

 

But it was the equivalent of a tool used in todays AI in that they were using "clip art" which to me is what AI does take Clip art/information from the world. The "secretaries/associates" can now create anything for the boss not just bussiess paraphernalia.

 

Sure I could keep on doing handson art for bands but we all know that bands are not made of money. It was my favourite art and Id never need to go computer on it but I needed to supplement band artwork by doing corporate work and I could see the writing was on the wall for that.

 

So I quit because I was hands on but also if i wanted to continue doing corporate work Id have to invest up to 10 grand AUD (probably about 12 to 15grand USD) back then to get into full on computer graphics beyond just desktop publishing. I wasnt interested in computers either.

 

Handson still had high overheads in bromide paper, its chemicals (with a shelf life once opened of days) and maintaining a huge reproduction camera (stands nearly 4 foot high) plus other art gear. Another high cost was for photo typesetting when it replaced lettraset.  Although computers could replace this, in those early days they were not a match for phototyesetting. So just doing band work wasnt going to survive me with those high overheads.

 

Also I was having some of my art work stolen which really cut me to the quik so that was the final straw and i stopped doing professional Art since then.

 

So todays corporates realise that AI's clipart is not totally legit as it could be clipped from anywhere. 

 

It reminds me of when my so called trusted Printer who used to print all my clients business needs had an example of a business card he printed for another client on his wall.

 

He clipped art from me. He copied a card I had him print for my client and he simply changed the details to reflect his clients name and address and the logo was just an exact bromided copy with an orange sun added to try and negate copywrite.

 

A little local Printer takes a chance because not much can happen to him but bigger corporates realise that AI will probably be a copywrite minefield Which could break them In litigation.

 

Ps: what did i do about the printer. As a regular there I stopped using him and I rang the guy who got the printer to make the cards for him. After explaining that he has no rights to using my artwork he never picked up his printed stuff from the printer nor payed for it. Not much but something.

 

But corporate companies have so much more to worry about than a local town printer.

 

So endeth the second reading.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stoken6]

7 hours ago, AROIOS said:

Fenis Henderson - Making Love

Very relieved to report that it's spelt "Finis" 😁

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Tusker]

12 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Fortunately Gordon Lightfoot saved us. 

 

But Dua Lipa? Harry Styles? Justin Timberlake? Lady Gaga? Seems like there is plenty of Disco around. 

 

What will ubiquity and true audience control do to streamed music? It will devalue it. But wallpaper did not kill paintings.

 

What will be valued then? Magic in live music. Yay! Artists who can take risks with an audience and take them somewhere special. Musicians like Bobby McFerrin. And Vulfpeck. And ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[J.F.N.]

I've spent a fair amount of time with the Suno AI, totally amazed about what can be done with ML now, my thoughts;

 

- It sucks on lyrics, so does ChatGPT, for obvious reasons, there will be no way to teach these pieces of code the emotional and intellectual experience of good pop lyrics, poetry, etc. as it only mimics based on references.

 

- For now the sound quality is terrible, this will likely improve in short.

 

- It amazes me with the geniality of creating melodies, very well balanced between verse, bridge, chorus etc. and more or less always really strong chorus parts.

 

- The way it build up a song, is definitely competent, yes, most often kinda by the book, but this is what is expected in standard pop/rock etc.

 

- It's impressive with how it build arrangements, and buildups of dynamics etc. and Yes, the sound quality sucks, but as a sketch pad, incredible!

 

- Truly impressive with its cultural awareness, I have played around with Portugues Fado as reference genres, in different variations, and DANG, what comes out is definitely authentic.

 

Conclusion:

 

If I could be bothered writing pop/rock songs, I would definitely use it as a creative inspirational sketch pad, ditch the lyrics, maybe keep the concept ideas of the lyrics but have a human write new lyrics. Then I would simply recreate the song in its entirity in the DAW, as a starting point, and take it from there, and bring in a great real human vocalist for singing.

 

Imagine in a year or three, when someone (FL Studio, Ableton?) uses this kind of generative AI as a guide when starting up the DAW, a new type of music creation workflow, asking questions like;

 

What kind of music would you like to create today?

Any specific instruments you want to use?

 

How long should the song be?

 

Is it going to be an instrumental piece or do you need lyrics?

if so, do you already have some lyrics that can be used?

if not, describe your idea for a story in short.

 

Etc.

 

And then you click "GO" and get the full song, as audio stems and MIDI tracks in the DAW, using virtual instruments, plugins, etc. instead of just generating a finished mix!

 

Go figure.

 

 

[Stokely]

As an aside, that Vulfpeck concert is one the best things I've seen and heard in a long time.  I knew very little of them when someone first showed me that.  The fun part is that it's basically one shot, one camera for the whole show!   No tracks, just great musicians looking like they are having a blast.   Gives me some hope for the future, considering a lot of that crowd looked pretty young.  I will be looking out for those guys.  I don't go out to see big synced up glorified karaoke shows anymore (though ok Muse might do it), but I might travel to see Vulfpeck.

All this AI "creativity" seems like it belongs in the Incredibles (one of my fave movies.)   "Everyone is special, Dash."  "Which is another way of saying no-one is."

[harmonizer]

11 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

 

Me too.   But this was the among end in the coffin, fortunately:

 

 

This song "Life During Wartime" and some others like The Rolling Stones "Miss You" have the quarter note kick beat of Disco. But I don't consider either to be Disco songs, and I like both of them.

 

I truly love the live version of 'Life During Wartime" from the 'Stop Making Sense" movie, and I would love for our covers band to cover that version.

 

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

If I could be bothered writing pop/rock songs, I would definitely use it as a creative inspirational sketch pad, ditch the lyrics, maybe keep the concept ideas of the lyrics but have a human write new lyrics. Then I would simply recreate the song in its entirity in the DAW, as a starting point, and take it from there, and bring in a great real human vocalist for singing.

+1. In 2024 generative AI is a brilliant source of inspiration, not so much the finished product.

 

Cheers, Mike

[TommyRude]

3 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

It sucks on lyrics, so does ChatGPT, for obvious reasons, there will be no way to teach these pieces of code the emotional and intellectual experience of good pop lyrics, poetry, etc. as it only mimics based on references.

Disagree.  Based on the OP’s song title, that is deep, meaningful, well thought out and emotional

[ElmerJFudd]

I have a suspicion that this particular advancement, as opposed to digital instruments and sampling (which has been embraced largely due to lack of access to all the analog and acoustic instruments it can sound like) will usher in a big musical luddite movement.  A marketing point (as mentioned above) “made without AI” both in recordings and live shows.  
 

Social media clearly shows there are more people than ever in the world who are playing instruments, making art, writing books, etc. entirely without AI.   Do they/we really have any interest in filling our minds with robot art?  This type of material seems more inclined for commercial use in advertising, low budget soundtracks for video.  
 

How hard will it become to tell the difference a year or three from now.  That remains to be seen. 

[EscapeRocks]

1 hour ago, harmonizer said:

This song "Life During Wartime" and some others like The Rolling Stones "Miss You" have the quarter note kick beat of Disco. But I don't consider either to be Disco songs, and I like both of them.

 

I truly love the live version of 'Life During Wartime" from the 'Stop Making Sense" movie, and I would love for our covers band to cover that version.

 

 

This maybe my favorite from the movie.    The only thing I didn't like, and it still gets a visceral reaction when watching:  The only time the camera would show Jerry Harrison or Bernie Worrell was when they were NOT jamming the tasty solo and licks. 

[Anderton]

But...but...to me, the fun part of music is creating a song, coming up with a melody line, and seeking that elusive inspiration. The analogy I'd use is a frozen dinner vs. cooking from scratch. You'll get a head start with the frozen dinner and end up with something to eat, but doing it from scratch is an experience. Putting a frozen dinner in the microwave is not. 

 

This is not to say AI is bad, end of the world, etc. etc. I've already used it to generate two book covers (but a third it was incapable of doing - you pick your battles). It could save me hours doing insipid musically acceptable background music for videos. But to think of it as a way to come up with creative ideas that I can just put in the metaphorical microwave - no thanks. Half of the fun of going into the studio is trying out different ideas to see what works. A machine trying out different ideas takes my pleasure away.

[Docbop]

So is AI the modern day version of ghostwriter.     

 

  I was listening to a podcast that got into how much use of ghostwriters is going on. Then this AI thread and I started thinking they aren't that different they are both being something they aren't. 

[jazzpiano88]

8 hours ago, harmonizer said:

This song "Life During Wartime" and some others like The Rolling Stones "Miss You" have the quarter note kick beat of Disco. But I don't consider either to be Disco songs, and I like both of them.

 

Same with Ride Like the Wind.   Here's the story of how they reworked the track to produce more drive forward with 4 on the Floor despite the widespread use by Disco at the time:

 

(also interesting is the discussion on how the great players know when to cut off the note, not just the timing of the attack. -- Something I don't know that AI would necessarily parameterize)

 

 

[J.F.N.]

15 hours ago, Anderton said:

But...but...to me, the fun part of music is creating a song, coming up with a melody line, and seeking that elusive inspiration. The analogy I'd use is a frozen dinner vs. cooking from scratch. You'll get a head start with the frozen dinner and end up with something to eat, but doing it from scratch is an experience. Putting a frozen dinner in the microwave is not. 

 

This is not to say AI is bad, end of the world, etc. etc. I've already used it to generate two book covers (but a third it was incapable of doing - you pick your battles). It could save me hours doing insipid musically acceptable background music for videos. But to think of it as a way to come up with creative ideas that I can just put in the metaphorical microwave - no thanks. Half of the fun of going into the studio is trying out different ideas to see what works. A machine trying out different ideas takes my pleasure away.

 

We are all (or most of us, depending on where we live) free to do what we want, I believe in a context where song writing is not just a passionate hobby, but the clock is ticking and the customer is expecting delivery, it will for sure be a really welcome workflow tool. Or when you need a bunch of songs quick for meeting up with a talent in a writing session and you're expected to have some great ideas with you already, used right this could definitely be a time saver.

[Docbop]

7 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

 

We are all (or most of us, depending on where we live) free to do what we want, I believe in a context where song writing is not just a passionate hobby, but the clock is ticking and the customer is expecting delivery, it will for sure be a really welcome workflow tool. Or when you need a bunch of songs quick for meeting up with a talent in a writing session and you're expected to have some great ideas with you already, used right this could definitely be a time saver.

 

But if they make AI generated non copyrightable so you're just a data entry person at that point delivering the computers output.     The situations you're describing are what professional songwriters and composers have been doing for decades.  One of the main qualities of those creators is they can work fast.   One person I was friends with working at the music school was a ghost writer for a big name TV score team.   Since the TV show didn't want to deal with clearances and such said  for scenes where a radio or stereo is on to just write music that sounds like a Top 40 hit.    My friend would tell his songwriting students I take more than three to five minute to write one of those tunes I'm losing money, because my main focus is the incidental music for the show.   The funny part was the TV show would get contacted by viewers now and then that liked the song they heard in scene such in such asking was record was it.    My friend (actually and old Jazz bass player) said I listen some Pop radio every week to hear the type of songs being played and so if someone want a quick Pop I can do it in minutes.    So humans have been doing this for decades and I would say more human sounding.      

[J.F.N.]

5 minutes ago, Docbop said:

 

But if they make AI generated non copyrightable so you're just a data entry person at that point delivering the computers output.     The situations you're describing are what professional songwriters and composers have been doing for decades.  One of the main qualities of those creators is they can work fast.   One person I was friends with working at the music school was a ghost writer for a big name TV score team.   Since the TV show didn't want to deal with clearances and such said  for scenes where a radio or stereo is on to just write music that sounds like a Top 40 hit.    My friend would tell his songwriting students I take more than three to five minute to write one of those tunes I'm losing money, because my main focus is the incidental music for the show.   The funny part was the TV show would get contacted by viewers now and then that liked the song they heard in scene such in such asking was record was it.    My friend (actually and old Jazz bass player) said I listen some Pop radio every week to hear the type of songs being played and so if someone want a quick Pop I can do it in minutes.    So humans have been doing this for decades and I would say more human sounding.      

 

As it is for now, if you grab a Suno subscription, everything you create is owned by you. I know that France has stipulated some funny law that AI generated stuff can't be used commercially, I'd love to see how they are keeping track of that....

 

I am very sure all this is going to pan out just fine in the end, when the worst fear expressed by conservative people in politics has faded away and they've understood that this is the new workflow tools, in all areas, there is no way to stop technical evolution with protectionistic laws, if there was, Meta would have been put out business a long time ago already...

 

[ProfD]

11 minutes ago, Docbop said:

The situations you're describing are what professional songwriters and composers have been doing for decades.  One of the main qualities of those creators is they can work fast.   

Bingo.  Excellent story to provide context as well.

 

As mentioned in several AI-related threads, the technology will mainly replace humans who produce disposable music.

 

Gifted and talented and creative human will always be a step ahead of the rest. 

 

Throughout the history of art, such has been the case with peer humans. 

 

The same will be true when it comes to the algorithm which always has to be updated by humans. 

 

IMO, AI will never be creative.😎