Synths—Is it Time to Let the 1980s Go Again?

[ProfD]

Synths have had a nice resurgence since 2008.  The late, great Dave Smith unleased the Prophet ’08.  A renewed interest in synths ensued. 

 

Surely, diehard synthesists had never given up on synths.  As prices plummeted and music changed over the years, it didn’t matter to those who were content playing with LFOs in their man caves and bedrooms. 

 

The heyday of synths was throughout the 1980s.  Sub-genres of music sprouted as musicians dug into the wonderful sounds these boxes could deliver.  Iconic sounds jumped out that movement too.

 

A decade later, in the 1990s, samplers and ROMplers would replace synths in both music production and live performance.  The Roland TB-303 and JP-8000 made some noise in Electronic Dance Music (EDM).  But, the pioneers of analog synths were in mothballs.   Their groundbreaking products were collecting dust, living in synth museums or being sold for peanuts. 

 

Today’s over-priced used synths, Juno 106s and similar were almost giveaways two decades ago.  Very similar to the plight of electromechanical KBs back in the 1980s when the DX7 burst onto the scene.

 

Musicians of a certain generation have an affinity for synths.  Many of us grew up drooling over full-page ads of sexy synths back the 1980s.   

 

Fast-forward to present, all grown up with the resources to indulge in a nostalgic trip, we can afford to buy subtractive synthesizers at exorbitant prices.  Heaven forbid those of us who have enough real estate to house synths…f8ck it, I’ll take a model from each manufacturer.🤣

 

The reality is that from a musical perspective, synthesizers are just noise-boxes now.  They are no longer required or relevant to producing or playing modern music.  

 

There is no shortage of YouTube videos with folks talking and turning knobs on synthesizers but there’s no music coming out.  You’d get similar results muting the sound and listening to the air conditioner or turning to the white noise channel.  If the YouTube influencer or *musician* can play, they are recycling sounds and licks from the music of yesteryear.

 

Today’s KB workstations, ROMplers and digital pianos (DPs) are fully capable of delivering any sound required to play cover tunes from any era. 

 

Don’t get it twisted…this is not to encourage a flood of synths on Reverb.  It is a sobering reality check. Especially to musicians struggling with how to fit synths into their band gigs.

 

If you have 1 or more modern KBs, you have every synth sound covered.  If you don’t believe it…look at your gig set-list.  Put an asterisk beside every song that either none of your KBs will cover and/or that only a dedicated synth will do. 

 

Synthesizers are still fun.  I’d imagine a modular and a Theremin falls into the same category. Musically required.  Nope.😎

[CEB]

I play Modern Pop and I use a lot of ‘synths’.  Well actually ‘VST engines’ which is what I consider the Korg engines.   VST apps ran on a Linux workstation.   I could carry 3-4 synths to do the gig but using a Kronos and Roland workstation is a lot more convenient.  If I was smart I would have went software back in 2013.  

[ProfD]

4 minutes ago, CEB said:

Well actually ‘VST engines’ which is what I consider the Korg engines....Kronos and Roland workstation is a lot more convenient.

The Kronos is a deep KB in terms of synth programming but it's all in there like Prego.😎

[Stokely]

I'm weird because I see both "sides" of this.  I've happily let hardware go at home because it's so very, very, very convenient to have everything in the box.  I don't even need to save tweaks to patches, the DAW does it for me.  I don't miss the old days of fiddling with multitimbral modes and patch changes let along the audio cabling and non-automated mixing (which of course doesn't have to be the case now).

I'm still drawn to "real" synths but yeah I could cover what I need to with "even" my relatively humble Modx (for FM, it's the real deal, for analog it's a pretty typical rompler).  Nobody would notice but me if I brought an obx8 instead, unless it took me longer to set up or was too loud or went out of tune (then they'd notice!).  

I won't use computers live just yet so I live in both worlds, which unfortunately means I can't pool resources and justify more stuff that would work in both! 

There's a threshold of fun and "bonding" for lack of better term that I desire to have with my instruments that I want to meet even if nobody else cares, is how I see it.  I don't particularly enjoy playing the Modx even though it's a great machine.   Same with a Juno-D (older model) that I used in a pinch, even more so.   I do enjoy playing my Summit (part analog) and Nord stage 3 (not analog) which I put down partly to build quality and key action more than synth sounds (though both are better at synth sounds than the Modx, FM aside).

Of course for live gigs there's other things to consider like weight, chance of rain and pollen and some drunk's beer getting on it etc.

I kind of have an "end rig" in sight now--and yes I've said that before as many have, but I think it's actually true this time.   I'd like to pair a non-weighted Fantom with the NS3 compact and bam.   I've kind of given up on wanting a weighted keyboard live.  I just don't require it to play the few non-rock piano songs I do.   The ultra-light Modx7 keys do make it difficult to play any kind of piano I must say.  That's a big reason why I'm targeting the regular Fantom.  Also nostalgia a bit, I did many gigs with a JX10   

One thing I personally don't care that much about--knobbiness.  Real-time controls used in performances, more important so there's a sweet spot.  I do programming at home and in reality am much more of a preset tweaker than a synthesis.  This is fine because the sounds I need are generally pretty simple.   If a keyboard/module has an editor and/or a librarian that is a big plus.

[AROIOS]

Consumer electronics are largely driven by mental masturbation. This applies to synths, cameras, smartphones (and Hi-Fi stereo systems before the 2000s, whatever happened to that market?). The fetish over analog (synths, vinyls) in the last 20 years is no exception.
 

I've hardly heard anything interesting done with analog synths in this resurgence that haven't been done between the 70's and 80's. The biggest difference between then and now is mediocre and talent-less nerds didn't use to have all the streaming infrastructure to broadcast their DAW-less fart sound tweaking self-indulgences to the world.
 

There are lots of advances in sound design in the world of VA and Wavetable synthesis. Too bad the genres in which these synths proliferate tend to produce ear-piercing noise instead of music.
 

At the end of the day, who cares what the latest trend is or what tasteless nerds fancy on a given day? Their impulse purchases and subsequent sales: 1) help manufacturers survive and keep offering cool products; 2) flood the market with cheap 2nd hand synths. (as long as we don't follow their fads).

I say, long live the clueless conforming nerds!

[zephonic]

3 hours ago, ProfD said:

 

 

If you have 1 or more modern KBs, you have every synth sound covered.  If you don’t believe it…look at your gig set-list.  Put an asterisk beside every song that either none of your KBs will cover and/or that only a dedicated synth will do. 

 

Agreed. Or at least it's close enough where it doesn't matter for anybody except the most discerning of purists. 

 

Still, the same way no rompler plays and feels quite like an acoustic piano, Rhodes or B3, I can imagine that people intimately familiar with their classic synth are never going to be satisfied with any emulation. 

 

For most gigs I don't really care, my romplers serve me just fine. But I do not like to play solos with their AP sounds. 

[Sam Mullins]

3 hours ago, ProfD said:

The reality is that from a musical perspective, synthesizers are just noise-boxes now.  They are no longer required or relevant to producing or playing modern music.  

 

There is no shortage of YouTube videos with folks talking and turning knobs on synthesizers but there’s no music coming out.  You’d get similar results muting the sound and listening to the air conditioner or turning to the white noise channel.  If the YouTube influencer or *musician* can play, they are recycling sounds and licks from the music of yesteryear.

 

If your point is that there is plenty of crap in the world, then I can't argue.

 

OTOH, if you are saying there isn't great stuff being made on synths these days, then rather than pointing out specific examples, I'll just say that there are 8 billion people in the world, with more access to musical production tools at a cheaper price than any time in history and it is highly improbable that  we've encountered some sudden drought in human creativity and that great stuff isn't being produced every day.    Finding it is another issue....

[Stokely]

Well for me as a live cover band player, I don't give two craps what music is being made today with instruments I'd want for the gig!

I suppose if I'm still gigging at age 110 our target audience will have moved into the 2020s, but I suspect I may have hung it up at that point!   Hell I thank the stars I'm not being asked to play stuff like Uptown Funk where I'd actually have to work hard to program patches   

At home, I still gravitate toward my more vintage softsynths (Diva, Repro) simply because I like them.  Not to say I don't fire up other ones like Massive X or am not interested in some of the newer plugs like those from Traktion, but I often find I just connect better with simpler vintage sounds.   With some of the synths I've tried, one patch fills up the sonic space so much that I'm like "I've used my index finger to hold a note, what's left?"   That of course is more about the programming than the tech used,  in particular the effects, but it's a pretty common thing.

--

To the main point, it's not unique to keys players.  Our guitarist doesn't need his Axe III--he could easily use an HX Stomp (he has one as backup).   Or bring out his expensive Les Pauls/PRSes.   Nobody will notice but him as long as he stays in tune   And so it goes for anyone playing live, some us pick gear because it's satisfying to play, and make whatever compromises we feel we have to.  My buddy used to bring a (chopped?) b3 and leslie to bar gigs along with his other keyboards...the other band members told me "he takes too long to set up" and "he takes up too much room"    But he likes playing it live even though it certainly wasn't needed or the easiest thing to do.

[ProfD]

15 minutes ago, zephonic said:

Still, the same way no rompler plays and feels quite like an acoustic piano, Rhodes or B3, I can imagine that people intimately familiar with their classic synth are never going to be satisfied with any emulation. 

 

For most gigs I don't really care, my romplers serve me just fine. But I do not like to play solos with their AP sounds. 

Right.  If that synth is a musician's instrumental voice, it's harder to replace. 

 

12 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

OTOH, if you are saying there isn't great stuff being made on synths these days...   Finding it is another issue....

I definitely would not suggest that someone, somewhere on the planet isn't doing great things with a synth.  

 

I do believe that a musician could leave their synth at home and still cover their gigs with reasonable facsimile sounds from a modern KB.😎

[zephonic]

2 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Right.  If that synth is a musician's instrumental voice, it's harder to replace. 

 

Exactly.

 

In a weird way, I've been out of sorts ever since I retired my Fantom X7. I keep looking to get that vibe and sound back (not to mention aftertouch), never really succeeding. All subsequent keyboards have failed to give me that connection, including Roland's own. 

[Baldwin Funster]

Synths will die when:

1 The audience is gone.

2 The players are gone.

Especially #2.

 

I do wonder if hardware synths will disappear leaving the zenology model to stand. It's suprising how long B3s have stuck around. They were king in the 60s before the guitar plus distortion sound took over. And before that it was saxophone. All of these are still popular for looking back at the music of their heyday. None are making NEW great music in our day.

 

Today's dominant instrument is the Hip Hop producers computer. That takes a different king of chops and it remains to be seen if any of it becomes classic and is covered by ensembles 50 years from now or is discarded like a candy bar wrapper.

[ProfD]

22 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

It's suprising how long B3s have stuck around. 

IMO, KB-based instruments like pianos (acoustic or electric) and organs will always be around because 1) sound doesn't age out of style, 2) compositional tool and 3) performance-based.  

 

It's hard to find a harpsichord or clavinet or synth trio.🤣😎

 

 

[Thethirdapple]

If one needs only PLAY a sound, rompler all the way…

If one wants to CREATE a sound, synthesis, no other way !

 

As a classical pianist, I find the mono-tonality of the piano is what it is, beautiful and rich but static. Put a Juno6 under the hands of a 12 year old and watch what happens…

 

And there is a distinction to be made between, analog and digital synthesis. Modeling and creating tonality with electrical currents is not the same as moving bits and bytes…

 

praise be the…

 

 

 

PEACE

_
_
_

[Tusker]

When I listen to guys like Nick Semrad, I realize there is a wealth of new expression to be found in older synths, let alone the new and magnificent software instruments that are on a different level entirely.

 

Synths are just starting folks. Strap yourselves in. 💪

[CyberGene]

Synths are like cars. You can get from A to B in any car but people still buy expensive cars 😎 I’ve dreamt of owning an Alfa Romeo since I was a kid. But I could never justify one. Well, last year I said f*ck it, and I bought my first Alfa and I’ve been feeling like a child in a candy store ever since 🧸 Yeah, it’s just a car but it makes me feel good! And I toned down my stance towards expensive synths too. Let people buy expensive synths if that would make them feel good! Life is short, I can be yet another cancer victim tomorrow… I’d rather spend my life enjoying rather than killjoying myself. 

[ProfD]

43 minutes ago, Tusker said:

When I listen to guys like Nick Semrad, I realize there is a wealth of new expression to be found in older synths, let alone the new and magnificent software instruments that are on a different level entirely.

Absolutely. Nick Semrad and J3PO actually *play* synths. 

 

4 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Synths are like cars.

 

And I toned down my stance towards expensive synths too. Let people buy expensive synths if that would make them feel good! 

True. It goes without saying or typing that folks should absolutely spend their money however they choose.

 

My essay was mainly for performing musicians who struggle with trying to fit dedicated synths into their KB rigs for cover band gigs.😎

[Stokely]

I'm one of those, I even put it that way--that I'm looking over the set list thinking of patches where i can use my Summit

The thing is, if you get a tune where it fits, it kills.  It's super fun to play.   It helps if your other keyboard is a do-everything one, so that means your synth (or clone, or vocoder string machine etc) is sort of icing on the cake if  you don't mind doing most songs on the main one.

All that said, I'm leaning toward a Fantom for my 2nd board if I can sell a couple things.  I played a Fantom-0 and the synth tones were great, and they should be even better on the big daddy with more engines and the optional EX upgrade.  The Summit might be moving on, I really like it but someone else, especially someone with a hardware studio, will get more use from it.

[J.F.N.]

All you need is a Yamaha CP70/80, a Rhodes and a Wurlitzer, and proper amplification for those, a Hammond with Leslie, a string machine, a DX7, a polyphonic analogue synth or two, a Minimoog, and probably it'd be good to have a Hohner Clavinet as well, and then you should be fairly well prepared for most gigs, unless you play symphonic rock and also need a Mellotron that is of course!

 

We're very spoiled these days, luckily!

[ElmerJFudd]

My guess was that there would be a rejection of tech in the most popular of popular styles in music at some point.  It seemed inevitable given the cyclical nature of these things.  But decades have passed now and instead it seems we just have a so much music being created in every imaginable style and most of it has no sign of ditching processed instruments, time and pitch corrected vocals, programmed beats and loops, synthy timbres. 🤷‍♂️  

 

Synths - hardware or software.  Amp and fx modeling, generated harmony vocals, etc. it’s just here to stay for the foreseeable future.  Arrangements produced entirely in the box or sequencing “noise boxes” with usb or mini MIDI cables.  That’s where we’re at.  The biggest shift we’re likely to see is the top 5 songs on the chart all either AI created or assisted.  

[Moonglow]

One of my favorite bands during the 1980s was Journey, and Jonathan Cain became one of my first keyboard heroes. The Prophet-5 and Jupiter-8 were prominently featured in Journey’s albums (e.g., Escape, Frontiers) and I attended concerts where Jonathan use both of these axes. I have heard Journey live in recent years, and I’m quite certain Mr. Cain could afford to maintain an arsenal of Prophets and Jupiters, but to my ears his Jupiter-80 and Kong Triton Studio fulfilled these roles quite nicely.

As with pianos, EPs, organs, clav, etc., it seems the issue here is the extent to which the advantages of using reasonable facsimiles of analog synths (e.g., romplers) offset the advantages of the genuine article.

[MathOfInsects]

If synths are your instrument, then sure, play synths. If "keyboards" are your instrument, and you have to play synth, IMO it's crazy in 2024 to purchase a separate board just for that. You might as well purchase a professional-level digital camera because you sometimes take pictures with your phone, and a police-grade flashlight because you sometimes use your phone as a flashlight, and a portable reel-to-reel because you sometimes use your phone's voice memos. 

I wish the people with money to spend on a separate instrument for every keyboard sound, would send me some for a single board that contains all those sounds. 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

If synths are your instrument, then sure, play synths. If "keyboards" are your instrument, and you have to play synth, IMO it's crazy in 2024 to purchase a separate board just for that.

The second sentence definitely sums me up. I hate "separate boards", and I feel restricted by "less than two boards", so any two boards I choose need to be jacks-(or better)of-many-trades.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[JoJoB3]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:56 PM, Sam Mullins said:

If your point is that there is plenty of crap in the world, then I can't argue.

 

OTOH, if you are saying there isn't great stuff being made on synths these days, then rather than pointing out specific examples, I'll just say that there are 8 billion people in the world, with more access to musical production tools at a cheaper price than any time in history and it is highly improbable that  we've encountered some sudden drought in human creativity and that great stuff isn't being produced every day.    Finding it is another issue....

I wonder if the early caveman ever turned to another caveman and said it didn't like the music/sound coming from those other cavemen?

Actually I think it's still the 70's that are being clung to the hardest.

Anyway, I think most of this is how media is ingested and served more than anything (progress?). Watch videos. Armchair quarterback. Repeat.
Combine that with bombardment of playlist curation, artist schlepping, company schlepping, music turned childish gameplaying with the likes of Spotify and like companies, the phone (media player) at hand 99% of each day, soc-media bombardment of their latest item to sell, gear reviews, etc. 
Iow, it's all more marketing than we've ever seen at anytime in history.

I wanna know when folks might (really) tire of this sh*t more than anything else. There are humans known and unknown gathering in spaces near you who can play making music with either the latest and greatest or anything in the the room.  Some of them use vintage to new synths live with other humans, a real vibe in a real space. Not video #643,219 on YouTokBook while stamping that the current state of things.

Seek venues with live music.  Every town has incredible music humans, I know it (rocket science this ain't but 'how' is usually the real thrill).

[JoJoB3]

20 hours ago, Thethirdapple said:

If one needs only PLAY a sound, rompler all the way…

If one wants to CREATE a sound, synthesis, no other way !

 

As a classical pianist, I find the mono-tonality of the piano is what it is, beautiful and rich but static. Put a Juno6 under the hands of a 12 year old and watch what happens…

 

And there is a distinction to be made between, analog and digital synthesis. Modeling and creating tonality with electrical currents is not the same as moving bits and bytes…

 

praise be the…

 

 

 

PEACE

_
_
_

It's comedy genius but this needs more actually. I'd go!

[JoJoB3]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:34 PM, Baldwin Funster said:

I do wonder if hardware synths will disappear leaving the zenology model to stand. It's suprising how long B3s have stuck around. They were king in the 60s before the guitar plus distortion sound took over. And before that it was saxophone. All of these are still popular for looking back at the music of their heyday. None are making NEW great music in our day.

 

Today's dominant instrument is the Hip Hop producers computer. That takes a different king of chops and it remains to be seen if any of it becomes classic and is covered by ensembles 50 years from now or is discarded like a candy bar wrapper.

The Hammond is 'king' because not only is it an incredible lead instrument but also one of the best supportive instruments created. Ac Piano following the same.  Rhodes, Wurly, Clav, etc tertiary, targeted coloring. Also wonderful but not as universal. 

Artists like Larry Goldings are often pushing things forward (but I agree there aren't enough like this right now).

Which also raises a question in RE to today's organ clones.  Are they really fostering organists? When a 25-note pedal board is made out of financial reach for most that isn't fostering organists (because there's truth in the saying:  an organist plays the pedalboard, without pedals you're a keyboardist who owns an organ). When a clone with known finite electronic life and 'almost there' sound costs double or triple what it might take to get a real Hammond rig instead, that isn't fostering organists.  This is plastics and circuit boards here.  I'm not saying it should be peanuts to purchase but today's prices are not only ridiculous but the aim seems to be to sell 'another keyboard'.   True, the vintage requires maintenance but nearly all are repairable and that outweighs things.

We have symphonies, chamber orchs, and lounge duos playing Dr. Dre's hits btw 

[niacin]

4 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Artists like Larry Goldings are often pushing things forward (but I agree there aren't enough like this right now).

Which also raises a question in RE to today's organ clones.  Are they really fostering organists? When a 25-note pedal board is made out of financial reach for most that isn't fostering organists (because there's truth in the saying:  an organist plays the pedalboard, without pedals you're a keyboardist who owns an organ).

 

Larry Goldings’ doesn’t kick pedals.

[Thethirdapple]

Quote

Larry Goldings is a self-proclaimed non pedal organist. Still he's one HELL of an organist! I do think Larry has since become acustomed to the pedals although when I have seen him he seems to look down to see if he's hitting the right ones. I don't think Larry ever came up playing real hammonds, usually clones with no pedals. He told me he doesn't even have an organ at his home. So, yeah you can become a great organist without the pedals. The guy from Soulive's a great example too. His left hand bass is monstrous.

Organissimo Forum link

 

“A nice gentle bounce…”

Hopefully NO ONE is kicking their pedals 🙃

 

 

 

 

PEACE

_
_
_

[JoJoB3]

2 hours ago, niacin said:

 

Larry Goldings’ doesn’t kick pedals.

He told you this?

[Thethirdapple]

And now for something completely different:

 

@ProfD Vintage synths regardless of their decade are less about utility and more about something else… to each their own reasons. Like with classic cars or vintage computers; collecting for the sake of collecting is discouraging and greatly increases the “price” of gear. Especially in todays world of instant trends driving interest beyond inventory.

 

But from a purely, adjusted monetary value perspective, a Juno6 today cost exactly the same as when purchased new in 81-82… go figure. 
 

That said: what the same 1k-3k amount of money buys me today is a full blown workstation. So the value and reason of buying a Juno or any piece of vintage gear now, is not comparable by this single utility variable.

 

A gigging musician like a delivery driver, neither would not use a vintage synth nor classic car as a daily, but its nice to have in the garage and take out for a sweet ride…  And each have their “trendy” decades which drive prices into utter stupid prices!

 

 

PEACE

_
_
_

[Mighty Motif Max]

Given how late ‘70s and ‘80s music influences have been back in full force in the pop world for the past few years, I wouldn’t say it’s time for the synth market to die down, especially analog or virtual analog offerings. Whether someone actually “needs” one for covering those songs on gigs may depend on how many of those songs you need. But I know the whole ‘80s era of music is pretty popular for my generation (Gen Z), so I wouldn’t imagine that changing any time soon. 
 

For what it’s worth, I don’t even own an analog synth. FM stuff I have covered, but not analog. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like one though. 😉