gigging with a heavy keyboard- your thoughts?

[Delaware Dave]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

If I had to do a public transit gig .....

I would pass on the gig ......  i'm not that desperate.

 

A few months we did a Hollywood Casino show in Md..  the place was packed and we all made great money, the Casino supplied the sound. I brought one keyboard and treated it like a practice, one kb, stand, small amp and a DI.  I had to carry that minimal stuff about 150 yds through a handful of hallways, a greasy kitchen floor where i slipped and threw my back out, down two more tight hallways to a tiny stage, plus all of the security BS of surrendering my license which took about 40 minutes to get back because the security guy was on break when it was time to retrieve it.  They gave us 8 dates for 2024, we turned them all down.  Not one of us had any interest in the hassle of playing there.  I imagine if we were all 20 years younger we would do it again but at my age the climb aint worth the view. 

[AnotherScott]

9 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

7 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

If I had to do a public transit gig

I would pass on the gig ......  i'm not that desperate.

 

I guess another answer could be, "I'd call an uber." Or, "I'd have another band member pick me up." 😉

 

Though there are car-less musicians who live and gig in Manhattan, for example, and public transit is their way of life.

[CHarrell]

40 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

"I'd call an uber.

 

Do not recommend  😭

[Delaware Dave]

58 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

I would pass on the gig ......  i'm not that desperate.

 

A few months we did a Hollywood Casino show in Md..  the place was packed and we all made great money, the Casino supplied the sound. I brought one keyboard and treated it like a practice, one kb, stand, small amp and a DI.  I had to carry that minimal stuff about 150 yds through a handful of hallways, a greasy kitchen floor where i slipped and threw my back out, down two more tight hallways to a tiny stage, plus all of the security BS of surrendering my license which took about 40 minutes to get back because the security guy was on break when it was time to retrieve it.  They gave us 8 dates for 2024, we turned them all down.  Not one of us had any interest in the hassle of playing there.  I imagine if we were all 20 years younger we would do it again but at my age the climb aint worth the view. 

 

And 15 minutes after I write this i get an email from the booking agent of the Casino, upped the price considererably.  They REALLY want us to play there; apparently we drew the biggest crowd there.  Still not interested in playing there we're pretty much fully booked, but now others are rethinking.  Christ.....

[D. Gauss]

17 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

Do not recommend  😭

Indeed. Uber charges me $75 to make a 2 mile trip across the river from NYC to jersey at 2am. One way. Nope.

[AnotherScott]

1 minute ago, Delaware Dave said:

And 15 minutes after I write this i get an email from the booking agent of the Casino, upped the price considererably.  They REALLY want us to play there; apparently we drew the biggest crowd there.  Still not interested in playing there we're pretty much fully booked, but now others are rethinking.  Christ.....

 

If it paid great to begin with and they're upping the price considerably, maybe you can cut down on the amount of hassle by paying someone $100 or whatever to be your helper/roadie, e.g. so you don't have to do any of the treacherous gear transport?

[jazzpiano88]

My limit is 70 lbs with help.   Wheels/Dolly will get it out of the truck and to the stage in the 140lb flight case.   I can handle the two person 35 lb lift of the slab to the keyboard stand if there isn't someone around to help my wife  🤣.    If there are stairs to bring it up in a case, and the drummer isn't available, I'll slip a bar employee a twenty to get it done.

[cassdad]

Seems we all acknowledge the numerous schlepping factors in addition to weight.  One more comment:  Using more than 1 keyboard exponentially raises the weight, stand / accessories, schlepping and setup / teardown complications.  I’ve found limiting myself to only 1 keyboard to be a significant factor on so many fronts.  Most keyboards can have 1 or more splits, so, for me, although having 88 keys is a heavier board, splitting mitigates having to have additional boards / stands / accessories, etc.  YMMV.

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

If it paid great to begin with and they're upping the price considerably, maybe you can cut down on the amount of hassle by paying someone $100 or whatever to be your helper/roadie, e.g. so you don't have to do any of the treacherous gear transport?

 

Hmmm ....

[elsongs]

It really depends. My main keyboard is a Nord Stage 3 88. It's 42 lbs, which is actually on the light side for a weighted 88-key. But it, inside its case is still bulky and I need to have it go in at an angle in my car's backseat, which takes a little time to orchestrate (though not as much time as if I had to fold down the back seats and load it into the trunk). For private gigs, or higher-paid/higher-profile performances, I'll play that. The other thing with bringing the Nord is re-connecting everything when I get back home. Even though I have a separate set of cables and pedals for playing live, which saves a lot of time and headache, having to plug everything back in after I get back from a gig is an extra task. 

But I currently have a weekly solo gig playing cover tunes at an outdoor night market. I leave the Nord at home and just play a Nektar Panorama P6 USB controller (17 lbs) connected to my MacBook Pro. I also have a Samson mini PA system that I play out of. So when I leave the house, I just bring 4 relatively light and small pieces with me: the keyboard in a soft case, a backpack containing my laptop, mic, audio interface and cables and the two mini PA speakers (my keyboard stand, mic stand and music stand stay in the trunk of my car all the time). Setup and loading is quick and it's 3 quick 100-foot trips from my car to the performance area. And when I return home from my gig, I don't have to plug this in since I have the Nektar specifically for gigging.

[Sean M. H.]

5 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

And 15 minutes after I write this i get an email from the booking agent of the Casino, upped the price considererably.  They REALLY want us to play there; apparently we drew the biggest crowd there.  Still not interested in playing there we're pretty much fully booked, but now others are rethinking.  Christ....

 

Funny...Based on your description, I'm 90% sure this is the same casino one of my bands played at a couple times last year.  We decided our last time would be our LAST time there as well--for some of the same reasons I'm sure 😂

[stoken6]

8 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

And 15 minutes after I write this i get an email from the booking agent of the Casino, upped the price considererably.  They REALLY want us to play there; apparently we drew the biggest crowd there.  Still not interested in playing there we're pretty much fully booked, but now others are rethinking.  Christ.....

Does the new price allow you to hire road crew? Pay someone to put their back out for you...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[D. Gauss]

2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Does the new price allow you to hire road crew? Pay someone to put their back out for you...

 

 

Ha!  I play gigs with a bar band where the drummer has his own damn roadie.  The roadie loads and sets up/tears down the PA and drum kit. Wouldn't be funny except these are shitty, low pay, small dive bar gigs.  I doubt the drummer makes a penny on the gigs. Probably goes home owing money, though his back is intact.   

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, cassdad said:

Seems we all acknowledge the numerous schlepping factors in addition to weight.  One more comment:  Using more than 1 keyboard exponentially raises the weight, stand / accessories, schlepping and setup / teardown complications.  I’ve found limiting myself to only 1 keyboard to be a significant factor on so many fronts.  

That's a good point... yes, a second board has to add somewhat to those factors. Though it doesn't have to be much, it really depends on the particulars.

 

K&M 18880 stand is 7 lbs as a single, 9.2 lbs as a 2-tier. Since the tier can be left attached for transport, there's no additional stand setup time.

 

Some very useful second boards can be quite light. Korg Kross or Yamaha MX49 are 8.4 lbs. Boards with mini-keys can be even lighter (e.g. a MicroKorg is 4.85 lbs). If you're willing to go up a bit, there's a good selection of nice boards in the 10-15 lb range, but people will draw the line in different places (and "hassle creep" is easy to fall into).

 

It's also not impossible that the addition of a second board could allow you to choose a lighter first board (e.g. if you could get by with fewer keys on your bottom if you didn't need to use it for splits that would be unnecessary in a 2-board rig), so there could could be some offsetting weight savings. 

 

As for accessories/setup, it depends what you really need out of it. I've often connected nothing but a power cable and a guitar cable to a top board. But I play mono, and for what I use a top board for, I usually don't really need to connect any pedals. Even if you prefer pedals in a perfect world, a second board with no pedals is still far more useful than no second board at all.

 

But yeah, just carrying another bulky item in and out, taking a second board out of its case and putting it on the stand and stowing the second case, and running a power cable and a signal cable is all going to add some time and hassle, and for some people, it's just not worth it. Or even if it is, there may still be certain gigs where every pound, every minute, and every item you may need to carry makes a difference. And these days, the ease with which you can add sounds from an iPhone/iPad to so many boards means you can do more with a single light board than ever before. (Though as rare as failures are, the prospect of not having backup gear on most gigs would still make me nervous!)

[Stokely]

Took me a while to figure out that the only person who cares if I have a bunch of splits and layers or multiple keyboards--vs just one playing one sound at a time--is me.

Granted we play classic rock that tends to be more guitar-focused, but we do a few keys-heavy tunes.  I manage on the one decently enough.

I've asked the band before:  "Hey, you think I should bring this other keyboard along?  it can do x and y!"  Their answer is invariably "Seems like it would be easier to just bring that smaller one."      I couldn't do a couple gigs and they found a sub, a GREAT player with killer gear, and all they could talk about later was how much room he took up on stage  

All that said, I have started realizing I'd feel more comfy with a 2nd keyboard along just in case for the more high-profile, corporate gigs at the least.  Whether that means leaving it my car or bringing it in I haven't decided.   Sure in some ways it's handy to have that 2nd one there even if it's "just" set to piano most of the time (which is my most-used sound).  Or, use it to trigger one engine/panel from the nord stage 3 by default and don't even use its sounds unless there is some problem with the NS3...that way I don't need a mixer and all the programming and patch leveling is on one keyboard unless there is a disaster.

Flip side, even if I'm the only one who cares about my rig, I matter a lot    

[D. Gauss]

8 minutes ago, Stokely said:

  I couldn't do a couple gigs and they found a sub, a GREAT player with killer gear, and all they could talk about later was how much room he took up on stage  
 

This. Not a lot of folks are aware, but early on, for a short time, Led Zep's John Bonham had a double bass drum set. That is, until the rest of the band (Page, mostly) put their collective foot down and said, "no way, it takes up too much room."  And that was that.

 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

 

Ha!  I play gigs with a bar band where the drummer has his own damn roadie.  The roadie loads and sets up/tears down the PA and drum kit. Wouldn't be funny except these are shitty, low pay, small dive bar gigs.  I doubt the drummer makes a penny on the gigs. Probably goes home owing money, though his back is intact.   

I'm part of a 11-piece soul revue-type band that is very much The Music, The Hang and not The Money. (Imagine a bunch of mates getting together for a drink and a jam, except it breaks even). We always wet-hire PA+engineer - it's most of our profit margin, but it's worth the reduction in effort and stress levels. (We max out a 16-channel desk, 4 monitor sends, lots of opportunities for feedback). Our bass player is late-sixties and has (finally) downsized from 1x15+4x10 cabs to a little 2x8in and a pocket-sized amp. I've know him 30+ years and never seen him so happy.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

[Reezekeys]

I've often fantasized about having a secure retirement where I play strictly for fun – where gigs are with friends, great players, and we play only the music we want - for an adoring crowd of course. 🙂 

 

In this scenario, I happily work for free. My (probably low) money goes to a responsible high school kid with a car, who transports and sets up my gear, then does the reverse at the end of the night.

 

The zero-schlep life – one can dream. The "secure retirement" part will probably be the reason my dream remains one. 🙂 

[bfields]

9 hours ago, elsongs said:

The other thing with bringing the Nord is re-connecting everything when I get back home. Even though I have a separate set of cables and pedals for playing live, which saves a lot of time and headache, having to plug everything back in after I get back from a gig is an extra task.

 

Maybe this is already obvious and you've already done it, but: what made a difference to me, besides buying a separate set of cables and pedals, was labelling all the at-home cables and tying them all to my at-home stand.  So when I plug everything back in, each cable is already hanging right below the spot where it plugs in.

 

[tucktronix]

For me, it largely depends on personal preference/situations. 

 

I've been gigging with my Korg CX-3(for organ) for 14 yrs.. now relegated to just blues gigs. It comes in a flight case which adds another 35 or so lbs to the already pudgy 37 lb board. I also have a Nord Electro 5d, but I much prefer the CX3/Lester K setup for blues gigs. The 25 lb Casio PX5S was my go to piano for 10 yrs. I recently bought a Yamaha YC88 to replace the Casio. Despite it's 41 lb weight, I fell in love with the pianos and the keybed felt the best to me. A Yamaha YC88 and Korg Kronos X has just recently become my main setup for the majority of my gigs.

 

My schedule is usually pretty busy, and I run my boards to the ground. So for me weight takes a back seat to sound and build quality(I DO have my limits, tho.. LOL). I'm sure that this will change as I get north of 60 😄 

[StansHands]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:38 AM, Reezekeys said:

I've often fantasized about having a secure retirement where I play strictly for fun – where gigs are with friends, great players, and we play only the music we want - for an adoring crowd of course. 🙂 

 

In this scenario, I happily work for free. My (probably low) money goes to a responsible high school kid with a car, who transports and sets up my gear, then does the reverse at the end of the night.

 

The zero-schlep life – one can dream. The "secure retirement" part will probably be the reason my dream remains one. 🙂 

That is the life I am finally living. I'm playing music without the business. Just starting this new adventure - learning the Lydian Chromatic concept with Miles and Monk and Coltrane, and rewriting my songs without triads and converting to 4ths, As I write. 

[ShadowMan]

I did a casino gig years back where I had to haul a Nord C1, stand, stool, cable/pedal bag and change of clothes thru the long parking lot, a couple of hundred yards thru a very crowded casino floor, and up a flight of stairs because the elevator was out.

 

Did it once. Never again. (And I was a lot younger then…)

[D. Gauss]

Glad I don't have to do this anymore:

 

 

[elsongs]

On 4/9/2024 at 7:45 AM, bfields said:

 

Maybe this is already obvious and you've already done it, but: what made a difference to me, besides buying a separate set of cables and pedals, was labelling all the at-home cables and tying them all to my at-home stand.  So when I plug everything back in, each cable is already hanging right below the spot where it plugs in.

 

Yes, I already mentioned that have the cables/pedals that stay in my studio and a duplicate set of cables/pedals that I use when I gig so no need to remove any of them.