Live - Best placement of 2 speakers - behind you? how wide? how far behind?

[StansHands]

I'm back out, after almost a decade. What are people's experiences about where to put your speakers these days. I've got 2 QSC K8's which is more than enough power for me playing jazz.

[Stokely]

Any time I use a speaker these days it's as a monitor wedge (keys and everything else) so behind me isn't going to work since I sing also.   A regular speaker of course would be prone to feedback in that situation, though the column array thingies are better about that (and some keyboard players use them as their "amp").

I've never used stereo speakers live, more's the pity.   If I was consistently using mine (and not in-ears as I do), I'd be strongly tempted to get a second one.  I hate getting it in one ear when it comes to monitors, and it's difficult to have them in front of me as I stand and the keyboard(s) block them.   Putting under my stand sorta works but I have to lean back...

If using as an amp, the questions to ask would be:  Are the speakers supplying sound for the band as well as yourself, and are they supplying sound to the audience?  That'll probably dictate where you put them.   If you have a PA, and if the PA is augmenting stage sound then an engineer might want them facing out; I could also see them wanting them NOT facing out so they have more control!    

A little out of my element as I mostly run direct with in-ears so others with more similar rigs will surely chime in.

[Delaware Dave]

In a home stereo situation many audiophiles recommend depth = distance in order to get a proper listening stereo field.  Example, if you are 10 ft from the speakers then the speakers should be somewhere around 10 feet apart. Not sure what an equivalent recommendation would be in a band situation since other instrument noise is also coming off the stage thereby potentially impacting the perceived stereo image of your monitors (which i believe is the question you are asking).

 

I run in mono and have moved the speaker closer to me so that it does not need to be very loud. If other members cant hear it then i'll adjust the position so that it is facing them, if they still cant hear it then i recommend that they turn some of my keys in their personal monitor (we mic our instruments). This keeps my monitor to a normalized volume.

[JimboKeys]

For my one-man-band gigs, i have my EV ZxA1's (carrying keys, tracks, and my vocals) 6 feet apart, 4 to 6 feet behind me -- far enough to each side so that they're not blasting straight into my ears.

 

-- Jimbo

[RABid]

Also remember that you need space to place the speaker away from the wall.

[Stokely]

Well, if you have tight stages at times, there's neither any room to get away from the wall, nor away from the speaker.  I've done plenty of gigs with cymbals so close I can reach out and grab them.  So your stage/band size could be a factor.  (These gigs are what finally made me go in-ears...)

[Reezekeys]

Of course we're talking smaller local gigs where you're not going into a PA & monitors, correct? I run stereo and always try to have my two speakers close, as I like to hear the sound coming from where *I* am – not from somewhere far away. So, a few feet in back of me, on my left & right side, about 4 or 5 feet apart, on foldable plastic footstools so the horns are below ear level. That way I can push the speakers loud enough to cover me, the bandstand and room without blowing out my ears. Very occasionally I've mounted speakers on poles (if the venue has them for me to use) which probably gets the sound out to the adoring crowd a little better - but makes for a more "far away" sound that I don't like to experience as I play. The footstools have worked really well. Inexpensive ($8 - $12 each), light, and they fold almost flat.

 

I try to set up on one side of the stage or other, angled toward the center, which helps with coverage for everybody. Depending on the layout of the room and stage, I might tilt the two speakers (horizontally) a little more outward in relation to each other, if more area needs to be covered - as long as I still get enough. As I understand, my 8" speakers have wider horizontal dispersion than larger woofers.

 

There have been times when the stage is real tight, so I have my speakers closer together than I like. I still make sure to find room for two - gotta have that stereo goodness!

[RABid]

Yes, I spent a lifetime with the drum set next to me and bass amp behind me. Sometimes I had an 18" 3-way keyboard cabinet behind me, and sometimes it was a floor monitor at my feet. A PA style cabinet with a wedge design that allows either 30 or 60 degree angling gives the most options, and options is what you need when dealing with various stages.

[Coker]

I’m also using 2 K8s. Lately I have found that placing the speakers with tweeters at ear level with centerlines even with each end of my keyboard, just 6 or so inches behind the keyboard, works for me in most situations.  That allows me to turn the speakers toward or away from me to let me hear enough of myself while setting overall volume loud enough for the situation.

[El Lobo]

I use 2 K8s on either side of me a couple feet back. They're on these On-Stage SSAS7000B Mini-adjustable Speaker Stands so I can turn them away from me or towards me as the need arises. I'm stage right so I usually angle the speaker on my left towards the band so they can hear me. 

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SSAS7000B--on-stage-stands-ssas7000b-mini-adjustable-speaker-stand-single?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gdsa&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=livesound&lighting&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=39700065013198126&lid=39700065013198126&ds_s_kwgid=58700007229425429&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9031924&creative=537361853727&targetid=aud-297527862170:dsa-1385849846370&campaignid=6730319011&awsearchcpc=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-_mvBhDwARIsAA-Q0Q7DIn1KdvJVbjdQkylnkVHyVfPOZDnYfn7X3eoEKH_ajDCv7EWJxmAaAqceEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Synthaholic]

I've been running in stereo since I first bought my old Fender Passport Deluxe in the early aughts. What I've always done is position them like a PA, dead even with me on the stage, and point each inward a bit so that I hear them both well without them blasting me or feeding back. If they are behind me I don't hear the high end or the definition as well.

[CEB]

It depends on what footprint I’m allowed to work with.  Poor speaker placement is probably the number one culprit for why sometimes the Kronos pianos sound like ass to me.  I’m often far stage left and would place the speakers to my right and left facing in towards my ears.  Also I often played on a keyboard riser and that didn’t have a lot of room.   It’s what it is.  
 

Speaker placement is important.  Luckily it doesn’t adversely impact my playing too much when it sucks. 

 

I really like playing keys through IEMs.  Eliminated a lot of speaker bullshit issues. 

[cassdad]

Yes to most of the previous comments (I don’t have the option of IEMs - most bands I play with are not sophisticated enough, and too stubborn to go with them, ugh).  Stage and band size greatly limits options.  I’d add that my number 1 problem is that wherever I place my speakers (stereo is a must for me, also) - there is always some band member standing right in front of them, blocking most of the sound.  Infuriating.

 

I’m currently using a Motion Sound amp (both left & right in one box), further exacerbating the situation.

[CEB]

I've never owned a Keyboard amp.  I've played some as backline.   A keyboard amp is really convenient. It is everything you need. 

 

I think they are out of production but I always wanted one of the Traynor K series that is usable as a wedge.  Its stereo and has all I/O most people would need.  The K4 looked killer but is probably heavy,  but it is everything in one trip.  If I was starting over today I would probably try to find a K4 used for $450 and get some good casters or road case and call it a day.

[Delaware Dave]

43 minutes ago, CEB said:

 Poor speaker placement is probably the number one culprit for why sometimes the Kronos pianos sound like ass to me.

I dont think its the speaker placement.  Kronos pianos are not the greatest ....  Like the Kurzweil series prior to the Forte the samples are long in the tooth ....

[CEB]

My PC4 is the only Kurzweil I have ever owned.  Not sure how those sample compare to the pre-Forte but I like them a lot better than the stock Kronos pianos.  And its less than 30 pounds.  LOL

[Delaware Dave]

16 minutes ago, CEB said:

My PC4 is the only Kurzweil I have ever owned.  Not sure how those sample compare to the pre-Forte but I like them a lot better than the stock Kronos pianos.  And its less than 30 pounds.  LOL

The PC4's piano is a derivative of the Forte.  The Forte has two piano samples, a Steinway and a Yamaha, both 4 gigabytes each.  The PC4's is 1 gigabyte each.  Pre-Forte (like the PC3) is, if I recall correctly, 16 megabytes.  

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, cassdad said:

 I’d add that my number 1 problem is that wherever I place my speakers ... there is always some band member standing right in front of them, blocking most of the sound.  Infuriating.

 

Yeah, I've sometimes got the same problem, except that band member is usually me.

 

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

I dont think its the speaker placement.  Kronos pianos are not the greatest ....  Like the Kurzweil series prior to the Forte the samples are long in the tooth ....

 

The thing about most long-in-the-tooth sampled pianos is they were built around significant limitations in size.  The surprising thing about Kronos is that, when they came out they blew everyone else away on paper... something like 4.7 GB sample set with up to 8 velocity layers... and yet lots of people (including me) still thought, for example, that the 200 megabyte Nord piano samples were better.

 

That said, I've heard newer Korg pianos that I've liked a lot... and I think they are also available even for the oldest Kronos. In particular, I like the Italian grand I've heard in other boards. So CEB, if you're not happy with your Kronos pianos, you might consider looking into loading that optional piano into your board. Bad news is that Korg's newest/best pianos (and some other sounds) for your Kronos aren't free like Nord's, but the good news is that you can do it at all, which is more than you can say for most old keyboards, where (other than Nord) you don't often see much ability to put a company's newer sounds into their older boards.

 

 

[Dave Number Four]

I do what reezekeys and El Lobo described, for those kind of gigs where I'm not in the pa. Typically the speaker facing the band is hardly giving me any direct sound, and the other speaker is enough to the side of me that I can give plenty to the audience without blasting myself. Obviously not a perfect stereo image but it seems to work. Also I always feel like it's just a wild guess on how loud to make the speaker tilted toward the band.

[AnotherScott]

12 minutes ago, Dave Number Four said:

I do what reezekeys and El Lobo described, for those kind of gigs where I'm not in the pa. Typically the speaker facing the band is hardly giving me any direct sound, and the other speaker is enough to the side of me that I can give plenty to the audience without blasting myself. Obviously not a perfect stereo image but it seems to work. 

 

yeah, when I've toyed with the idea of stereo, my thought was similarly not toward any stereo imaging per se, but just for more spread/coverage, and maybe just some sense of more spaciousness (sound not so identifiably coming out of a single box). I'd probably have them right next to each other, angled away from each other. I always figured that would give you the best Leslie effect at least. 😉

 

On 3/22/2024 at 5:59 PM, Reezekeys said:

so the horns are below ear level. That way I can push the speakers loud enough to cover me, the bandstand and room without blowing out my ears. Very occasionally I've mounted speakers on poles

 

I keep speakers on the low side as well. In terms of audience coverage, that's less of a compromise when you're on a raised stage, but I do it even when the "stage" is ground level. I guess if the guitarists can do it, so can I. 😉 Though there is that issue mentioned above that having them low means, at least from some angles, your own body is likely to be blocking a good amount of the sound. Maybe that's an argument for having some feet of separation between the speakers when you're using two.

[Reezekeys]

I might be imagining this but I don't think so. When I'm forced to set up my two speakers very close to each other, the L&R summing phasyness that renders my piano sound boxy when running mono seems to happen - acoustically! I definitely notice a degradation in the sound quality.

[kpl1228]

for bar gigs, 6 feet or so behind me, cabinet off of the floor (I use a 4 space rack doubling as a speaker stand for that purpose). Keep the bass players happy (I swear they can feel subsonic vibrations with their feet).

[D. Gauss]

12 hours ago, kpl1228 said:

for bar gigs, 6 feet or so behind me,  

 

6 feet? Ha! These must be big bars that don't pay NYC rent!   I often end up playing mono through a Fender Rumble 500 while sitting on it instead of using a stool in order to conserve real estate. 

[StansHands]

Thanks for the responses!

 

I gave up playing loud gigs after the guitarist's Bassman amp was in my left ear and it took days to get rid of the buzz. The song "Can't Get Enough Of Your Love" was hot on the charts and we were covering it.

 

I'm just about to purchase a Studiologic Numa X while I study the study a transcription of "Kind of Blue" and record all of the parts, so I need a true representation of what I am playing, in my studio. I've got plenty of room behind me, so I'm getting out the tape measure to plan 6' X 6' 

[D. Gauss]

1 hour ago, StansHands said:

 

 

I

 

1 hour ago, StansHands said:

 

I'm just about to purchase a Studiologic Numa X while I study the study a transcription of "Kind of Blue" and record all of the parts, so I need a true representation of what I am playing, in my studio. I've got plenty of room behind me, so I'm getting out the tape measure to plan 6' X 6' 

Jeez, if yer in the studio, just listen to the control room monitors in front of you and/or nice headphones.