Dang... I guess I don't know what a great jazz pianist is. Who is the greatest of my generation?

[CyberGene]

We all know the drill: practice, then practice and finally practice 😀 A music related forum can only be useful for helping each other about how to mute that frickin MIDI zone and the likes, but that’s boring to death 😀

[ProfD]

23 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

We all know the drill: practice, then practice and finally practice 😀 A music related forum can only be useful for helping each other about how to mute that frickin MIDI zone and the likes, but that’s boring to death 😀

I think we manage to cover a variety of topics here from helpful to other musicians ranging from gear, theory and technical all the way up to sports and downright silliness.🤣😎

[CEB]

Really diggin' Kenny Barron today.  

[CEB]

2 hours ago, K K said:

Don't forget Bugs Bunny, Schroeder and Rowlf the dog.

 

I am ... as well as probably most of us here ....  well versed in Vince Guaraldi.  But I didn't know who Buggs was.  It's a pretty cool story about a Polish virtuoso named Jakob Gimpel.  He was great.

 

 

 

 

For what it's worth I have learned a lot from this thread.

 

Thanks

[slg1013]

The Chopin Etude in Am was *the* piece I aspired to play as I continued taking classical lessons. Never really got close - could never get anywhere close to the tempo required. I had never heard of Jacob Gimpel prior to this thread and I hadn't really thought about that Chopin Etude in a number of years. Watching the video above, it's amazing how easy he makes playing that piece look. Thanks for sharing. I always learn so much on this forum. I definitely need to spend more time here...

[cedar]

Speaking of great pianists: last night, I caught a set with a pianist I had not seen for a couple of decades, and kind of forget about: Geoff Keezer.

 

He was part of a group playing Art Blakey material, including Bobby Watson, Peter Washington, Carl Allen, Robin Eubanks, and Brian Lynch.  Ironically, I think the last time I may have seen Keezer when he was playing with Blakey, I believe when he was just a teenager or in his early 20s.  Back then, my recollection is that he and Benny Green were among the most impressive young pianists of that "generation." I kept up with Benny Green through the years but lost track of Geoff.

 

Anyway, Geoff was amazing last night, kind of stole the show.  And he did it with very original takes on standard Messenger material. Really opened my eyes to some new approaches.

[Anderton]

I think someone considers a jazz piano great if the playing affects them emotionally. Like there are probably better piano players technically than McCoy Tyner, but he always seemed to be able to play the exact notes that were necessary to lift up what John Coltrane played another notch, thus increasing the overall emotional impact.

 

Also although of course I love synths and EPs, I respect that he really stuck with the piano the same way a married couple would stick with each other.

[Joe Muscara]

15 hours ago, cedar said:

Geoff Keezer

Technically, I think he goes by Geoffrey Keezer professionally. 
 

He was one of the first to join Open Studio with his Keez to Jazz Piano  course, which is amazing, both for his excellent ideas on how to practice to improve, as well as his playing. That’s where I first heard of him and I immediately knew he was a player I wanted to know more about. He’s since recorded several other courses for Open Studio (KTJP was originally recorded for his own web site and they converted it to an Open Studio course).

 

His last couple of albums are great, and his most recent won a Grammy. I haven’t dug further back in his catalog, but I plan to as I’m a big fan. 

[jerrythek]

OK,I finally got time to watch to whole thing. I can see some of the points people here are making. I hadn't thought about it, but yes, Rick B. is certainly marketing himself in every moment of his interviews by being on camera the whole time, by sometimes over-reacting to points - he laughs a lot harder at things here than Brad does. So now that I am thinking that, it is going to be just a little harder to watch future videos without that coming front of mind for me. But he does a great job of creating opportunities for dialog, and I always appreciate an interviewer who is really listening and follows up to go deeper into a subject. And Rick has gotten better at that over the years.

 

My biggest wish is that Brad would have played more. He showed the beginning of some concepts, but then always pulled back. What really caught my eye is how he always prepared his hands to touch the keyboard with precision/dynamic/etc. His touch is just wonderful, and of course, his left hand is way more proficient than most of our right hands are! While he's not one of my top influences, this interview has spurred me on to re-visit his works that I have heard and to explore him more. He is a commited player who gives a lot of thought to what he does. I respect that.

[Reezekeys]

4 hours ago, Joe Muscara said:

Geoff Keezer

 

...who just started a shitstorm on Facebook with a post about his students at Julliard. Maybe a different thread (or different forum!).

[jerrythek]

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

...who just started a shitstorm on Facebook with a post about his students at Julliard. Maybe a different thread (or different forum!).

Yeah, I saw that... interesting that it would be happening there.

[MathOfInsects]

2 minutes ago, jerrythek said:

Yeah, I saw that... interesting that it would be happening there.

I saw that too, but had a very different response. You’re there to teach, they’re there to learn. Don’t expect them to already know the stuff you’re supposed to be teaching them. Model and lead the behaviors they will need to succeed later, don’t just throw your hands up and condemn a whole generation.

[jerrythek]

17 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Don’t expect them to already know the stuff you’re supposed to be teaching them. Model and lead the behaviors they will need to succeed later, don’t just throw your hands up and condemn a whole generation.

I'm not sure I should be taking us down this rabbit hole, but... my view is by the time you get to Julliard you shouldn't need to be taught to come to classes on time. Or to practice... but I agree that he cast his net pretty wide.

 

For context, here's his post:

I teach at one of the preeminent, hardest-to-get-into music schools in the world, with supposedly the cream of the crop of music students intent on having a career in music when they graduate. Yet they can't be bothered to show up on time for a 9:30AM class. Nothing but lame excuses. The trains were messed up. Was up hanging at Small's till 3AM. My heater is broken. Ad nauseum. And when they do show up a half hour late (if at all), they haven't practiced and are unprepared. So I ask you students, how do you expect to have a career when you graduate if you can't get up in the morning? How are you going to make a 6AM lobby call on tour to get to the airport for an 8AM flight? The staying-up-all-night and sleeping on the plane thing gets old fast (and so does your body). How are you going to make a 10AM recording session that STARTS AT 10AM? I'm telling you, nobody cares that you live in Jersey or upstate or Queens or wherever people commute from (I commute and my ass was up at 6AM to be at work on time). This culture of "everybody gets an A", "everybody gets a medal" regardless of student's blatant disrespect for their lesson plans and their teachers (we have lives too, AND we play gigs late at night and still somehow manage to get up in the morning to take our kids to school and get to work on time) is not sustainable. Back to tough love, because it was still love. My mentors and bosses gave it to me straight, if I was out of line. It might have hurt my feelings for a day or two, but then I got my shit together. Students - if you're serious about wanting a career in music when you graduate, then GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER. Practice your assignments, do the work, and SHOW UP. Thanks.

[stoken6]

5 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

shitstorm on Facebook

I happened to see that. He's right that professionalism matters, but I disagree with the "it wasn't like this in my day" angle. Lazy students have existed throughout history.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MathOfInsects]

9 hours ago, stoken6 said:

I happened to see that. He's right that professionalism matters, but I disagree with the "it wasn't like this in my day" angle. Lazy students have existed throughout history.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Not to mention...if students were responsible back then, what in the world was the "tough love" about?
 

Your class, your rules. If students are walking all over him, that's not about the students. And it's certainly not about ALL people of the same generation, everywhere. 

He just sounds burned out to me. Understandable, but folks shouldn't use it as some kind of affirmation that they occupied the last worthy generation. 

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

some kind of affirmation that they occupied the last worthy generation

Also something that has existed throughout history.

 

I'm going to stop now, my mind is taking me to political places...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Joe Muscara]

It always amazes me when people make these kinds of generalizations. I'd bet money that all schools have the issues with students that he talks about, throughout all time.

 

(I must admit, when I was in college, no professor or TA took attendance nor noted lateness. The attitude was that if you missed or were late for class, that was your problem. That being said, I didn't take any classes that related to music nor performance so I don't know if those would have been different. I did have labs though so I guess if had missed those I would have not gotten credit for those experiments or whatever we did had I missed them.)

[CyberGene]

I’ve always been late for everything. I’m not proud about that and I’ve tried changing it very hard but it just doesn’t work. I always try to be right on time but it never happens. And if I see I have plenty of time ahead to be early, then somehow I fill that time with other things and ultimately I’m late again. I’ve read an analysis that said people like me are usually seeing being early as something that’s inefficient and so they try to be exact but in real life you can’t be right on time and so you’re late. Again, not attempting to make an excuse… 

[MathOfInsects]

Yeah. If you're going to dismiss every disappointment as generational, you have to be prepared to have your complaint dismissed as such, too. 

One way or another I've spent at least 25 years of my life in university classrooms. There certainly are a subset of instructors who take the, "Behold and be grateful for the magical contents of my brilliant mind, foolish worms!" approach. But the best professors see themselves as conduits to students' future selves in one way or another, either professionally or intellectually. 

You never know what's going on for people--in both directions. GK sounds burned out. Flip side, he is dealing with students who are just getting their feet back on the ground after high school experiences that were turned on their heads with COVID, and for whom the classroom is not the only site of learning anymore.  Safe to say in "his day," no such thing had been in the mix. The onus is always on us to adjust, lead, and teach better, not on people to be how we want them to be.

This same conversation occurs around the use of AI. The horse has left the barn. The way forward is not to say, "Don't." I mean, you can say it, but it's going to happen either way. The way forward is to craft your courses in a way where doing so would result in work that would not sufficiently complete the assignment. The problem is that personalized work like that is harder to grade. It's an "us" problem, not a student problem.  
 

[Reezekeys]

Confession time! I used to be a chronically "just-in-the-nick-of-time" guy, and it bit me very hard once: I was late to a wedding ceremony in midtown Manhattan as I underestimated how bad crosstown traffic could be (I was supplying the keyboard for a friend of the bride to play, then playing the reception). In my older age I've come to understand the value of being early, and could kick myself for not understanding how my behaviors impacted both my health (anxiety and stress are not good for you) and my reputation! Even though I cleaned up my act at least 15 years ago... it doesn't matter!! You're "THAT GUY"... I'm pretty sure it's cost me work. I would suspect that Prof. Keezer had that thought when he wrote his post. Also, could it be possible Geoffrey sees the lateness and lack of preparation as a personal diss? After all, he's Geoffrey Keezer! I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, as it's likely these students exhibit the same behaviors with other professors. I'm probably not qualified to opine on this subject, as I haven't been associated with academia as a student or teacher for a long time, but - why not just grade these laggards appropriately, and concentrate your efforts on the ones that show up and want to put in the time?

[MathOfInsects]

Just now, Reezekeys said:

why not just grade these laggards appropriately, and concentrate your efforts on the ones that show up and want to put in the time?

Prezactly. 

There is an asterisk, though. Student ratings of professors figure prominently into your reviews for promotions and progression through the ranks (including pay). As such, it's a primary factor in the very real "grade inflation" issue. If you fail half your class, you not only invite a whole bunch of crappy ratings, you also invite professional scrutiny from your department or college, since most courses have a general "expected grade" range. So the two options are just ignore some outlying behaviors and "reward" bad behavior, or TEACH your way around the problem by very clearly laying out your expectations and then enforcing those expectations. It's amazing what a well-written and thorough syllabus will do for you, if the time comes for a grade dispute or the like.

It's also amazing what a compassionate and realistic view of the differences in student life in 2024, vs 1980 or whatever, will do for you as an instructor. These changes aren't the death of civilization, they are just the march of time and in many ways a chance for students to access way more knowledge and opportunities than we ever had. 

Also, I don't know the program at Juilliard very well. It's entirely possible that GK's class is required but filled with a bunch of classical-heads who could give a golden shit about jazz in any way. If that's the case, he needs to teach as if that's the case, and not rely on being GK to carry the bulk of the load. Safe to say he's not the most famous professor there, and might even be a let down for some of those students. 

[MathOfInsects]

4 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I’ve always been late for everything. I’m not proud about that and I’ve tried changing it very hard but it just doesn’t work. I always try to be right on time but it never happens. And if I see I have plenty of time ahead to be early, then somehow I fill that time with other things and ultimately I’m late again. I’ve read an analysis that said people like me are usually seeing being early as something that’s inefficient and so they try to be exact but in real life you can’t be right on time and so you’re late. Again, not attempting to make an excuse… 

In NY, if you're on time, you're late. Here in CA, if you're on time, you're early. 

I'm chronically early to everything professional. I'd rather have time to kill at the end destination than along the way. Airports too. If I'm going to sit anywhere, I'd rather it be in the one place I know I have to be, than anywhere else along the way. It's a form of anti-anxiety "medication," I think. 

[ProfD]

Geoffrey Keezer always has the option of throwing up deuces and leaving Julliard in his rearview. Doesn't need it on his resume.  He's built enough cred to get a lucrative gig anywhere. 

 

Otherwise, neither Keezer's ego nor grumbling and complaining will fix the well-worn issue of tardiness and/or lack of focus in people. In fact, he should know better. 😎

[cedar]

I wasn't going to weigh in, but I can't resist saying that I saw absolutely nothing objectionable about his FB post.  He lamented about students being late and unprepared, remarks which hardly seem controversial to me. And I really didn't interpret his comments as suggesting one generation was better than another.   He criticized the "culture of everybody getting an A" but that criticism has, indeed, been around for decades at least, and I didn't think he meant to suggest it was only a recent phenomenon. He noted that his "mentors and bosses gave it to him straight" when he was out of line - which is actually an admission that he himself had made the same types of transgressions.

 

I suppose it's fair to ask what the purpose of the post was.  Maybe it was just to vent? Or maybe he assumes his students will read his social media posts, and the post was meant as a way to light a fire under them all? I agree that the best lessons would be taught/communicated individually, but don't have any problem with his message.   

[GovernorSilver]

So Geoffrey Keezer is a human after all, with a flaw or several like the rest of us.

 

Makes him a little more relatable to me.  😉

[Al Quinn]

When Geoffrey Keezer speaks aspiring musicians should listen. Julliard and their students are lucky to have him. He doesn't need Julliard. I saw nothing wrong with what he wrote.

[CEB]

If I showed up late or unprepared my teacher let me know it.   I was wasting time, opportunity, and money.  And it’s rude.   Classes and lessons teach more than chops. 

[CyberGene]

Was that post about one-on-one lessons? Or is it the entire class being late? I haven’t read the original post, I don’t use Facebook. 

[cedar]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

Was that post about one-on-one lessons? Or is it the entire class being late? I haven’t read the original post, I don’t use Facebook. 

 

Scroll up in this thread and you'll see the entire FB post quoted.

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, cedar said:

Scroll up in this thread and you'll see the entire FB post quoted.

 

Thanks, just found it.

 

Seems like he's talking about a class. I don't see the big deal about certain students being late but I haven't studied music, not sure what the requirements for that are. I studied physics and it was not mandatory to show up for lectures or practice (besides specific mandatory lab practice), only the final examination mattered.

 

I basically agree about the importance of being right on time for anything. On the other hand, he gives some selective examples of early morning appointments for a musician but he fails to mention that as a jazz musician playing at night clubs, it's probably equally as important to be a night owl and play after midnight. You can't expect someone to play up until 3 AM in a downtown club, then commute to home and get up at 6 AM, so that he's available for whatever early morning appointment there is for a jazz musician and I'm not a jazz musician, so I'm not familiar with their typical early morning schedule.