DP with a really light action?

[Justin Havu]

So last week, my beloved RD-1000's audio output finally went kaput, and after replacing the relay, which usually goes bad on these (and the MKS-20), it still was toast.

 

Such a shame, as that was my go-to piano for Sunday morning service, as I absolutely can't tolerate the action on my church's aging CP300.  The RD had, IMO, the best action in any DP I've laid hands on over the last 20 years; smooth, light to the touch, and just easy to play.

 

That being said, I'm hoping to convince my church to sell the CP300 (with matching furniture stand, music rest, and bench) and upgrade to something with a key bed I can tolerate.  I'm kinda leaning towards the CK88.  Played around with one last spring, and I found it playable, and a good sound to it.  I'm wondering what else might be out there within that $1K-2K range.  Oh, and anything with any Fatar TP1xx is out.  Lol

 

As far as other features, onboard speakers aren't important at all, but I need stereo out.  I just need mainly an acoustic piano and an EP for sounds.

[CEB]

Yamaha Balanced Hammer Action. But to hit the budget you will probably be looking at a used board.   Maybe a S90es or Motif XF8. 
 

I have a S90XS. I keep it for the action and a rehearsal board but personally I like the pianos on the older ES model better, but that is just me.   Does your Roland send MIDI?  Maybe a copy of Ravenscroft or … <insert piano of choice here>

[CHarrell]

If you're okay with barebones options, I always think of the Kawai ES (not 920) and the Casio PXS x000 (preferably 5/6/7) when it comes to lightweight actions. I give points to the PXS for being really smooth, and the ES points for feeling more solid and put-together (with the PXS, I feel a noticeable difference between the white and black keys).

[Justin Havu]

46 minutes ago, CEB said:

Does your Roland send MIDI?  Maybe a copy of Ravenscroft or … <insert piano of choice here>

 

I thought about that.  The RD suffers from the dreaded all-notes-off CC that nearly every Roland had around the time the RD-1000 was released (1986), meaning I'd have to filter that CC with my iConnectMIDI 4+ before going to a computer or sound module.  The other thing is I'm really looking to keep the church rig to just a single board, stereo DI'd straight to our PA, no dealing with computers/external stuff.

 

I'd be interested in trying an ES520 way more than I'd ever want to touch any Casio.  Lol

[CEB]

None of Casio actions I played last time I was at Guitar Center in Brentwood I thought were particularly light.  By light I’m assuming the opposite of firm.  Same with the Kawai slabs. I haven’t played the cheap Kawai slab. But all the MPs I always felt had significant grading in the bass.  Not that I mind. I’m a Kawai fanboy but I assume a really good balanced action would be to your liking.   But that is just me. I’m just some crazy guy on the internet.  

[Sean M. H.]

1 minute ago, CEB said:

None of Casio actions I played last time I was at Guitar Center in Brentwood I thought were particularly light.  By light I’m assuming the opposite of firm.  Same with the Kawai slabs. I haven’t played the cheap Kawai slab. But all the MPs I always felt had significant grading in the bass.  Not that I mind. I’m a Kawai fanboy but I assumed a really good balanced action would be to your liking.  

 

 

Agree... wonder if maybe CH was thinking "lightweight boards" as opposed to light actions...

[CEB]

That was my thought. 

[Floyd Tatum]

I can't really remember what the RD-1000 felt like, was it really that light of an action?

I had a Roland Rhodes MK-80 for a while, back in the 90's, I think, and I don't remember the action being particularly light.   More of a KX-88-type action, as far as I can remember.

 

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, Sean M. H. said:

 

 

Agree... wonder if maybe CH was thinking "lightweight boards" as opposed to light actions...

 

The PXS actions feel really really light to me...probably too light actually, but again they're smooth and the key dips easily.

[Sean M. H.]

45 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

The PXS actions feel really really light to me...probably too light actually, but again they're smooth and the key dips easily.

 

 

Ahhh ok.  Guess I'm thinking of the older generation of Casios...the Privias (PX-#20, and similar).  

 

To the OP, I would say...maybe don't be quite so quick to dismiss Casio...they've long outgrown their reputation for being toys with lighted keys that you learn on as a kid (although I'm sure they still make those too).  For the last decade or so, I'd say they can hold their own with Yamahas and Rolands in terms of slab-style DPs with decent action and serviceable bread and butter sounds.

 

I'm not "recommending" a Casio persay...as I haven't shopped/compared these types of boards in quite some time...just saying they may be worth seriously considering.

[AnotherScott]

2 minutes ago, Sean M. H. said:

Ahhh ok.  Guess I'm thinking of the older generation of Casios...the Privias (PX-#20, and similar). 

Funny, those (and the earlier Privias) remain some of my favorite actions, and I do think they are light-feeling actions, as hammer actions go.

[Justin Havu]

1 hour ago, Floyd Tatum said:

I can't really remember what the RD-1000 felt like, was it really that light of an action?

Compared to the CP300, Korg's RH3, Fatar's TP1xx, any modern Roland, the 1000 felt nice and light under my hands.  It literally is a balanced action in that the keys, which are about as long as the piano is deep (with a weight in the back of each key), sit balanced on a long rail.  They're held in place by a series of pins about a couple inches beyond the rail.  Two big levers underneath the piano lock the keys in place for transport.

 

To this day, I've yet to play another DP that feels as good to me as the RD-1000.

[The Piano Man]

I think the RD1000 used one of the Matsushita (Technics) actions.

 

I have a Technics P30 (circa 2001) stage piano and it has a very light and very quick hammer action. Not fatiguing at all.

 

I would have recommended the Korg RH3 but I see you have already tried that. What about the Yamaha GHS? It’s pretty light and quick, at least to me. YMMV.

[Adan]

I love the action on the Numa X GT, and I would say it is on the lighter side.  Definitely lighter feeling than the Roland PA-whatever that has wooden core keys.  It's been awhile since I played the Yamaha wooden core action, so harder for me to make a comparison.  It's probably not the lightest action you can get, but it's a much higher quality compared to the Yamaha GHS.

 

By contrast, the Numa X with TP110 feels heavy, not as heavy as TP100, but much heavier than the action in the GT.  

[Justin Havu]

Korg RH3 always felt really heavy to me, no matter what model they threw that action in.  I remember working for a Korg dealer from 2004 to 2011 and trying the SV1 when that first came out.  Neither the store owner or I were impressed enough to stock it, and as far as the keybed went, it was unplayable.  IIRC it had some issues, but even after those were addressed, I never got along with it.

 

The other thing I loved about the RD-1000 was I could play near the rear of the keybed with little resistance, which comes in handy when playing stuff in #/b keys.

[CHarrell]

2 hours ago, Adan said:

It's been awhile since I played the Yamaha wooden core action, so harder for me to make a comparison.  It's probably not the lightest action you can get, but it's a much higher quality compared to the Yamaha GHS.

 

 

They have a reputation for being heavy, and I get it, but it's a very smooth and firm action, with a satisfying repetition speed and good pivot length to allow for that back of key playing.

[Adan]

I wonder if it makes sense to say an action can be heavy but at the same time not fatiguing.  For me, this kind of gets into an area where semantics starts to fail, but that could just be because I don't know the right words.  i can play the Numa X GT for hours without feeling fatigue, but maybe it doesn't follow from that that I should be calling it a "light" action?

[CHarrell]

7 minutes ago, Adan said:

I wonder if it makes sense to say an action can be heavy but at the same time not fatiguing.  For me, this kind of gets into an area where semantics starts to fail, but that could just be because I don't know the right words.  i can play the Numa X GT for hours without feeling fatigue, but maybe it doesn't follow from that that I should be calling it a "light" action?

 

I know exactly what you mean, and that's how I feel about NW-GH. I don't know if it's cushioning or what that gives it that comfortability. I'd love to try the Fatar wood actions but those are never in my area and the weight is a nonstarter.

[kaptainkeys]

Why not go with more of workstation type board that has velocity curves?  I like a lighter action as well because I split my time between AP/EP and a lot of hammond and synth sounds and using the velocity curves on my Kurzweil PC4 has left me satisfied with the weight of the action.

[Delaware Dave]

I would think any kb with a TP40L (L for light) action should satisfy you.

[CEB]

My RH3 is heavy in the bass. I love the Kronos but not it’s action.  I played the RH3 in a SV-1 and liked it better than my Kronos but it was still fairly heavy in the bass.  

[My Keys And Me Are Vintage]

Justin - I loved my Yamaha CP300, my main keyboard until I finally upgraded to the Numa X GT recently. Like going from a nice solid Ford to a Tesla. I did not find a local one to demo first, so I took a chance and found a used one online. This time, the reviews of the keybed were spot-on. I love it. Paired with an iPad, it really amazes me. I went back out to the stores again after playing the Numa for a couple of months and the best I could find that is close was the Yamaha YC88, which I really like too. Pretty good choices to demo in my area, but finding certain keyboards in stock to demo is hit or miss. Nobody had Studiologic keys in any form. 

 

I was not thrilled to buy something without even trying one first, but this time it paid off for me. Saved a lot of money and knew I could resell easily if it didn’t work for me. I know that is something not many people are comfortable doing! 

 

[johnchop]

+1 on Kawai and anything with a TP40L.

I find the RH3 too heavy as well

[Justin Havu]

I thought the RH3 was, and still is, a heavy action, until I laid hands on a P515.  That action was virtually unplayable. 

 

The problem I have with the Yamaha GHS, is it's very inconsistant across the different models.  Some feel a bit heavier to the touch than others, and where I live, there's no real showroom around to A/B a bunch of them.

 

IIRC, the CP300's graded action really isn't a true graded action--it's split into three sections: heavy on the bottom, medium in the middle, light on the top, and it just uses three different hammer weights to achieve this.  One idea would be to swap all the heavy and medium hammers with light ones, but even the light hammers feel a bit heavy.  I also don't think it's much help that they slopped a bunch of white grease in the keybed as well.  Lol

[Stokely]

I'm certainly not up on all the actions out there.   When I think "light and good"  (VERY subjective on the good part, I like light action), of the ones I've tried or owned, here's my list:

Nord piano and stage 3 88
Whatever tp40 action was in my old Studiologic controller from the 90s and is in my current Forte 7
Kawai es110 (presumably 120 as well)

And recently, the Montage M8x, which on first play jumped straight to the top of the list.  Obviously that's WAY more than a simple digital piano.

There are heavier actions I like too, like some Yamahas and RH3, the Kawai es8 and mp11, and I liked the RD2000 I tried recently.  I do not like whatever Roland uses for its cheaper digital pianos though.  My idea of "heavy" is probably strongly influenced by the fact that the main acoustic I played growing up--which wasn't that much--was an old spinet with super light action.

GHS for whatever reason (to go with the post above) I can't really settle on an opinion.  Even on the same keyboard (and I owned a Moxf8 for a while) some days it feels awful and others pretty good.
 

[Delaware Dave]

41 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Whatever tp40 action was in my .......... Forte 7

 

TP40L

[mynameisdanno]

For your requirements, I'd definitely give the Kawai ES120 a shot.  Haven't tried it myself (I need 5-pin MIDI out) but I really like the feel of the ES110.

[Justin Havu]

9 minutes ago, mynameisdanno said:

For your requirements, I'd definitely give the Kawai ES120 a shot.  Haven't tried it myself (I need 5-pin MIDI out) but I really like the feel of the ES110.

 

If I wind up giving a Kawai a try, I might go for the 520.  While not having MIDI out wouldn't really be a deal-breaker, it'd be nice to have if I ever needed it.

 

I'm almost leaning towards the CK88.  I remember liking it to an extent when I tried it at a GC back in May of last year.  However, the morons at GC had it sitting on a set of angled brackets, which should be absolutely prohibited when displaying any hammer/weighted action keyboard, especially if any part of the mechanism relys on gravity to any extent.

[CHarrell]

35 minutes ago, Justin Havu said:

I'm almost leaning towards the CK88.  I remember liking it to an extent when I tried it at a GC back in May of last year.  However, the morons at GC had it sitting on a set of angled brackets, which should be absolutely prohibited when displaying any hammer/weighted action keyboard, especially if any part of the mechanism relys on gravity to any extent.

 

I'm not a big fan of GHS, but it's a really fun board.

[time4jazz]

58 minutes ago, Justin Havu said:

If I wind up giving a Kawai a try, I might go for the 520.  While not having MIDI out wouldn't really be a deal-breaker, it'd be nice to have if I ever needed it.

I have the ES 520. It does have 5-pin MIDI in and out. And the action is quite nice.