Single fx pedal or Multi fx unit?

[Thethirdapple]

A question from a non professional guitarist…

 

Why so many pedals?

 

I am trying out different approaches to either putting together a pedal board or purchase a multi fx unit. And the difference between customizing a board of “single” fxs and or using what you get in a multi-fx unit  is not lost on me.

 

As a more general wonderment, why “only” guitarist have soooo many pedals?
Obviously a pedal can be used with any instrument given the correct levels, but what is it about a single fx pedal that hits home?
 

One thought is that, less is more, a pedal is literally plug and play. Ease of use and solid build seems crucial.

Another plus side to single fx pedals seems to be a “deeper, richer” experience, whereas multi fx units are good but not always great…

 

Thanks for any advice,

 

Peace

 

 

[Winston Psmith]

Greetings, @Thethirdapple

 

I use both individual pedals, and MFX, for different reasons, so let me see if I can come up with a good answer.

 

You're right, to a degree, about the "depth" or feel of individual pedals. While it's not as simple as Analog vs Digital, I have yet to craft a 4-stage Phaser sound in any of my MFX that has quite the tone and feel of a simple Phase 90; I can get really close, but . . .

 

Pedals are also very user-friendly. You turn the knobs until you find a sound that you like, and you're set. Some players really dislike programming MFX, and scrolling through parameters trying to create a sound. It's a very different process, and for a lot of players, it's not as much fun.

 

The flip side is that MFX are very cost-effective. For the price of four or five pedals, you can probably find a MFX that has all or most of the sounds in those pedals, plus a lot more. It also makes it very easy to have different sounds set up for different tunes. Depending on which MFX device you choose, you'll get 20, or 60, or 100, or even 200 User Presets, which is like having 200 different Amp+Effects rigs in one box. You may not use them all, but you may also find some effects you hadn't tried before.

 

One last point. In a loud, live club, with people dancing, and drinking, and possibly singing along, no one is going to hear the subtleties of a carefully-chosen boutique pedal array, and if some drunken dancer spills their drink on your pedalboard . . . well, That's All, Folks. A decent MFX will more than do the job, with a minimum of cables, connections, and AC adapters, and if you've backed up your User Patches (which you should), even if your MFX gets drowned, you can quickly restore your sounds into another of the same model.

[Sharkman]

We have had this discussion here before, but not in recent years.  Here is my opinion on the subject.  I own five pedals so far, and two Digitech multi-effects processors (MFX).  If you are a serious musician who either records in a studio or plays live for paying audiences, you would probably be best served by using individual pedals, so you can get the exact sound that you want.  If you are a non-professional musician that just likes to play around the house (in other words, me), then the MFX is hands down the smartest way to go.  For instance, my Digitech RP-1000 can do more than $10,000 worth of pedals can do.  I have lots of phasers, flangers, wah wahs, distortion and overdrives, reverbs, delay/echos, amp simulators, cabinet simulators, loopers, noise gates, and all kinds of stuff all in one package.  Does the RP-1000 sound the same as my Electro Harmonix Big Muff Pi Ram's Head version?  Almost.  Close enough and good enough for what I do here at the house.

 

I hope this reply is helpful.  If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to respond. 

[surfergirl]

For me it's just a personal choice to use individual pedals. I can certainly see the convenience of multi fx though. When I'm playing the guitar volume knob is my best friend. My amp and pedals are set, and rarely change them.

[Larryz]

@Thethirdapple,  There are a lot of instruments (flutes, violins, sax, trumpets, piano, etc.) that would not sound too good running through guitar pedals (Overdrive, Distortion, Metal, Vibrato, Phase, Octive, Fuzz, etc.).  Not saying you can't do it but most non-guitar players would not be using them as much.  As a guitar player putting together some stomp boxes or choosing a Multi Effects unit the sky is the limit along with your piggy bank.  First thing to figure out is what type of music do you want to play? Some genres need certain effects and others need to stay away from them, for the most part.  Being versitle might require more pedals while being in a specific genre might only require a few if any.  Being acoustic might require none at all.  It's all up to you. Many guitar players not only have more than one pedal, they also have more than one amp and more than one guitar.  You can buy amps with a ton of onboard effects already programmed with foot switches instead of stomp boxes and/or multi-effects units.  Or, you can run both.  Some players have different pedal boards set up for different genres.

 

Me, I really only need reverb.  If the amp does not have it, I'll purchase a reverb pedal LoL!  I do like having a clean boost pedal when switching from lead to rhythm guitar while playing with others.  If I'm singing and playing solo, I can leave the boost pedal at home. Making choices is all part of how each of us tackles this wonderful instrument.  I like it clean and unadulterated while othes like to get wild with it!  The main thing is for you to craft your sound(s) and have fun!  IMHO.  😎👍

 

 

 

 

[desertbluesman]

+1 on Larryz's post just above.

 

I still have a few multi efx and amp modeler pedals that I would actually use if I was playing out. But for the most part I just use Reverb and overdrive pedals.

[Winston Psmith]

1 hour ago, Larryz said:

Many guitar players not only have more than one pedal, they also have more than one amp and more than one guitar.  You can buy amps with a ton of onboard effects already programmed with foot switches instead of stomp boxes and/or multi-effects units.  Or, you can run both.  Some players have different pedal boards set up for different genres.

 

. . . and even different pedals of the same effects group, for slightly different "flavors" of Overdrive or Distortion. Try the "All Knobs At Noon" comparison between a TS9 Tube Screamer and a BD-2 Blues Driver, for example.

 

Respectfully, with regard to @Larryz's observation that most other Instruments don't sound their best when run through Guitar pedals - dynamics, gain structure, and frequency response have a lot to do with it - Jean-Luc Ponty was able to conjure heavenly sounds, running an Electric Violin through a Phaser, and Eddie Harris did some beautiful things running his Sax through an Echoplex. Exceptions that prove the rule, perhaps?

[Scott Fraser]

1 hour ago, Winston Psmith said:

Respectfully, with regard to @Larryz's observation that most other Instruments don't sound their best when run through Guitar pedals - dynamics, gain structure, and frequency response have a lot to do with it - Jean-Luc Ponty was able to conjure heavenly sounds, running an Electric Violin through a Phaser, and Eddie Harris did some beautiful things running his Sax through an Echoplex. Exceptions that prove the rule, perhaps?

One of the things which distinguishes the Kronos Quartet (whose concerts & records I mix,) from all other "classical" string quartets is their willingness to explore non-conventional timbres. I have run them all through Tube Screamers, octave dividers, chorus/phasers, lots of delays, & my personal fave, the Leslie simulation. We're now doing all our effects in software, but we started out with pedals & rack units. Violins especially take to distortion very well.

[Dannyalcatraz]

I’m not a pro by any stretch of the imagination.  I’ve never performed with a guitar in font of any audience beyond my instructors, my dogs or some people way on the other side of a square with other things occupying their attention.

 

And I have A LOT of gear, covering a wide variety of potential sounds.  And in terms of pedals, I have both discrete pedals and multi effects units.

 

I have all that stuff because guitar is an artistic outlet for me, and I can afford it.  So I can explore surf guitar, metal, classic rock, jazz, and whatever strikes my fancy.

 

 

[CEB]

I use both. It depends if on the gig.  My multi-Fx cost more than my pedal board but it also replaces my $2000 amp.  Some gigs I run direct with the MultFx.  Some gigs I use a stage amp and pedals. Both sound good.
 

  Without IEMs the pedalboard and amp feels better but it is much closer than it used to be.  I think it feels better now because the AD/DA converters have improved a lot. … but that is just a guess.  

[KuruPrionz]

I have both. Boss ME-80 pedal board. Big, heavy but pretty much everything you could want or need. I rarely use it but I'm warming up to the idea of programing deep dive and using it instead of bringing an amp. I have a very small selection of separate pedals and it may shrink. I'll keep the Tech 21 Double Drive 3x, I don't even remember what else I've got. On the other hand, the Sanpera 1 plugged into either of my 2 Peavey Vypyr VIP 1 amps that I put Scorpion 10" speakers in does a great job too. LOTS of effects on those amps and the wah/volume pedal on the Sanpera is smooth and sounds great.

 

More than one way to skin a cat and more than one cat needs skinning. 

[Caevan O’Shite]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:44 AM, Thethirdapple said:

Why so many pedals?   ...the difference between customizing a board of “single” fxs and or using what you get in a multi-fx unit  is not lost on me.   As a more general wonderment, why “only” guitarist have soooo many pedals?   ...what is it about a single fx pedal that hits home?

What kinds of analog, individual pedals are used the most often by electric guitar players?

Most likely, Fuzz, Octave-Fuzz, Overdrive, Distortion, and various types of Boosts.

All of those, ESPECIALLY Octave-Fuzz and Fuzz, are generally very poorly and inadequately replicated by digital modeling, exacerbated by AD/DA conversion.

Digital Fuzz, Octave-Fuzz, OD and Dist do not respond to and interact with the player's "touch", their guitar's volume-controls and pickups, and other pedals and amps in the same ways as real-live analog pedals. The available textures are missing. A diminished experience and palette, for sure.

I also loathed digital chorus, flange, and phaser effects. Hard puking ingested jagged plastic chunks NO. 
(Some individual pedals that use digital processing for phaser and/or modulation effects are much improved on previous generations, "YMMV". For example, Winston didn't care for the video-demos of the Strymon Zelzah, citing a perceived "digital sheen"- while I thought that I'd enjoy it... )

The digital reverbs and delays on many DM/MFX units are often rather bland and generic.

I will admit and even heartily state that these are all VERY HIGHLY subjective from one player to another to another. Some may hear and feel little or no difference between a multi-effects unit's digital-models of, say, a Fuzz Face, a Tube Screamer or Sparkle Drive, and my various all-analog Fuzz pedals and my Origin Effects Halcyon Green Overdrive. To me, the differences in feel, sound, interactive details, and features are nearly profound.


Could I get by with a digital-modeler/multi-effects unit that has models of Fuzz and Overdrive pedals?

I used to- and the differences prompted me to begin building a collection of individual 'real, actual' pedals. At first, I placed some such pedals in front of and (in the case of some delay, reverb and modulation pedals) even after my DM/MFX unit (a DigiTech GNX4), which in turn went to headphones and/or DI to PA and monitors. I later began adding a real-live tube-amp in parallel to the DM/MFX unit (the two were not connected to each other in any way); this sounded HUGE onstage or from anywhere in the audience! But I digress... 

I eventually sidelined the DM/MFX. And since then, I've also begun using and really enjoying a Strymon Iridium, which is an amp digital-modeler and speaker/cab/mic/room IR device. Along with many of my favorite pedals fore and aft, the Iridium can very satisfactorily replace  both my amps and a DM/MFX unit, if going DI.


Now, there ARE, especially among some that have been fairly recently introduced, some DM/MFX units that are VERY sophisticated, some of which even allow you to model the actual amps and pedals that you personally have. They are also very expensive,


Am I a Pro? I'm not a Pro, but I played one on stage last night... (OK, it's been a long while, actually) No, I'm not a Pro, in my estimation. But whether I'm playing for myself through headphones, or with a full band on a stage in front of an audience or in any other space, I deeply, deeply enjoy having excellent tone and interactive qualities literally at my fingertips; it's very therapeutic and nourishing for me.
 

 

On 2/2/2024 at 12:33 PM, surfergirl said:

When I'm playing the guitar volume knob is my best friend. My amp and pedals are set, and rarely change them

I can very much relate to THAT! And I play fingerstyle 100% of the time, as well. Amps and effects that interact with all that are very rewarding to me. The more I can change tones and sounds and textures with my fingertips and guitar-controls, instead of  via the footswitches and knobs of amps, pedals, or DMM/MFX, the better.
 

 

22 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

. . and even different pedals of the same effects group, for slightly different "flavors" of Overdrive or Distortion. Try the "All Knobs At Noon" comparison between a TS9 Tube Screamer and a BD-2 Blues Driver, for example.

Here, here! Hear, hear! Alternating and stacking such pedals can reward the player with rich and varied tones and 'feel'. 

 

20 hours ago, Scott Fraser said:

 

22 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

Respectfully, with regard to @Larryz's observation that most other Instruments don't sound their best when run through Guitar pedals - dynamics, gain structure, and frequency response have a lot to do with it - Jean-Luc Ponty was able to conjure heavenly sounds, running an Electric Violin through a Phaser, and Eddie Harris did some beautiful things running his Sax through an Echoplex. Exceptions that prove the rule, perhaps?

 

One of the things which distinguishes the Kronos Quartet (whose concerts & records I mix,) from all other "classical" string quartets is their willingness to explore non-conventional timbres. I have run them all through Tube Screamers, octave dividers, chorus/phasers, lots of delays, & my personal fave, the Leslie simulation. We're now doing all our effects in software, but we started out with pedals & rack units. Violins especially take to distortion very well.

 

I have a friend and Friend via Facebook who plays sax. She builds and deftly deploys extremely sophisticated, large pedalboards. She sounds AMAZING.
 

 

13 hours ago, Dannyalcatraz said:

I have all that stuff because guitar is an artistic outlet for me, and I can afford it.  So I can explore surf guitar, metal, classic rock, jazz, and whatever strikes my fancy.

I can relate!
 

 

4 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

I have both. Boss ME-80 pedal board. Big, heavy but pretty much everything you could want or need. I rarely use it but I'm warming up to the idea of programing deep dive and using it instead of bringing an amp. I have a very small selection of separate pedals and it may shrink. I'll keep the Tech 21 Double Drive 3x, I don't even remember what else I've got. On the other hand, the Sanpera 1 plugged into either of my 2 Peavey Vypyr VIP 1 amps that I put Scorpion 10" speakers in does a great job too. LOTS of effects on those amps and the wah/volume pedal on the Sanpera is smooth and sounds great.

 

More than one way to skin a cat and more than one cat needs skinning. 

I bet you'd like, maybe even love my sound if we jammed. I bet you'd hate using my gear.   
 

  

On 2/2/2024 at 8:43 AM, Winston Psmith said:

...and if some drunken dancer spills their drink on your pedalboard...

Front-and-center at a concert one night, after a little friendly small-talk here and there with Warren Zevon, a very tall, very inebriated gentleman leaned over to show Mr. Zevon his wallet's lengthy string of photos of his snowmobile- impressing everyone all the more by dumping his beer all over Warren's pedals and shoes.  Startled and cringing, an exasperated Mr. Zevon exclaimed to me "D'eghgghhg!! You get it!!"

[Larryz]

@Caevan O’Shite, @Winston Psmith and @Scott Fraser,  I agree with your comments and your talents even though I don't know too many violinists using distortion pedals LoL!  And with talented artist like you guys there are "always exceptions to the rules".  I thought I left myself and off-ramp with "There are a lot of instruments (flutes, violins, sax, trumpets, piano, etc.) that would not sound too good running through guitar pedals (Overdrive, Distortion, Metal, Vibrato, Phase, Octive, Fuzz, etc.).  Not saying you can't do it but most non-guitar players would not be using them as much."  Anyway my wife and I saw Hall and Oates live in San Francisco back in the day and when the sax player did his solo live, I was blown away!  Check out the sax lead with heavy echos at 2:43 to Man Eater:

 

 

😎👍

[Caevan O’Shite]

7 hours ago, Larryz said:

@Caevan O’Shite, @Winston Psmith and @Scott Fraser,  I agree with your comments and your talents even though I don't know too many violinists using distortion pedals LoL!  And with talented artist like you guys there are "always exceptions to the rules".  I thought I left myself and off-ramp with "There are a lot of instruments (flutes, violins, sax, trumpets, piano, etc.) that would not sound too good running through guitar pedals (Overdrive, Distortion, Metal, Vibrato, Phase, Octive, Fuzz, etc.).  Not saying you can't do it but most non-guitar players would not be using them as much."  Anyway my wife and I saw Hall and Oates live in San Francisco back in the day and when the sax player did his solo live, I was blown away!  Check out the sax lead with heavy echos at 2:43 to Man Eater:

 

 

😎👍

I didn't mean to contradict you, Larry, just to kick the ball around and point out various examples of things and ideas.    You were NOT wrong, not at all; it's 'all relative'.

And talented people like YOU do things the way that works best for what YOU do. Makes the world go 'round.

I bet you're FAR better at doing what you do, than I would be if I tried to step into your shoes!     I don't sing much, and I don't know a lot of songs. Of the ones I've learned, I've forgotten many! I bet you're a better lead player than me, too!

Me, I play to my strengths, if you will- which is also just doing what I want to do. It's admittedly an easy way out!

I myself once again really need to knock the rust off from any talent I may have. And some of my needs have changed- I selected and used gear specific to the various covers that a band I was in was adding to the set-lists; years before that, an all-originals band that I was in had some expectations of what did and didn't fit their style and image, though I was pretty free to do what I wanted, overall...  If I get out of the house with it again, and even a few years or more before, the requirements of stage-volume levels and available space have changed. The power and useable, toneful volume of my my amps have changed- no more cranking a Fender Twin or Carvin Vintage 33 for overdrive and distortion, now it's lower-powered amps along with pedals for that. A DM/MFX unit would be a smart and convenient way to go, but as usual, I have my own workarounds...

In that one covers band (we also did some originals, but that took a back-seat more and more), I had to adapt to what the other players brought to the table concerning how close or not-so-close to the original recordings of those covers it was going to be. I often changed keys, came up with parts that were sort of similar to the originals yet not exactly the same, perhaps recognizable enough to the average audience member... even pretty much re-arranging a given piece, to make it all work. My strengths helped me there! My various pedals, or newly chosen ones, helped a lot there, too- I could either nail the original sound, or bust out something completely different to make it fly on its own wings in strange winds.

I am capable of working up authentic, faithful covers- but it DOES take a LOT of hard work and focus for me to do so! What comes naturally to me, is easier, and creative; while the results of working hard on a cover can be VERY satisfying, in spite of all the work and much more time spent to do so.  

Currently I'm kind of dormant, and looking at doing MY thing, if you will, MY way, and that means that some of the pedals and amps and that DM/MFX that I needed before, are going to the sideline. I'll probably have fewer pedals total on a rearranged pedalboard.

Blah blah blah...      Sorry! Forgive my rambling...

[KuruPrionz]

4 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

Currently I'm kind of dormant, and looking at doing MY thing, if you will, MY way, and that means that some of the pedals and amps and that DM/MFX that I needed before, are going to the sideline. I'll probably have fewer pedals total on a rearranged pedalboard.

Blah blah blah...      Sorry! Forgive my rambling...

For the time being, I've gone solo acoustic guitar and vocals. It's something I could improve and I've noticed a different already. My vocals are stronger and my pitch is better.  Playing guitar under vocals is improving as well. I've been an esteemed lead guitarist, vocal harmonizer for most of my time on the planet but I want to be able to do my own thing because I am also a songwriter. Some things come easy, I'm challenging the bits that seem more difficult. I wish I'd focused on this from the start. So it goes...

[Winston Psmith]

Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I don't advocate sound effects for everybody, and everything; one size most definitely does not fit all, when it comes to Music, and sound.

 

I can not imagine the beautiful French Horn that opens the last movement of Stravinsky's "Firebird" being in any way improved by a Phaser or Flanger, nor would I care to hear Barber's "Adagio For Strings" with Ring Modulation as a feature.

 

OTOH, the Music that called to me required a very different set of tools, for a very different set of sounds. I knew, very early on, that I was not an Acoustic Musician, and luckily, I've been able to assemble a very nice toolkit, for whatever it is that I do?

[Larryz]

@Caevan O’Shite, I must take that bet you're offering as my image of you has you playing cirlcles around me!  Plus you have the touch and can give much better advice on pedals and multi-effects than anyone I've ever read on-line.  Like you, I have forgot more than I will ever know.  I started out on acoustic like the majority of us back in the day.  Progressed a little with electric guitars and pedals. Then I started giving up pedals and now I'm down to one pedal for electrics and just bought an acoustic guitar again LoL!  I'm having fun and +1 on doing it "my way" (like the Elvis, Frank Sinatra and Ray Charles philosophy).  I went to a Traveling Willburys tribute band concert last night and really appreciate those that can get the original sound.  I saw a BeeGees tribute band a couple of months ago that were also great.  There is a lot to be said for the hard work in caputuring the original tunes note for note and I appreciate guys like you that can do it!  I know we are just kicking the ball around and there were no worries or contradictions even being thought of on my end.  I wonder if trying to have the right pedals for each tune might give the advantage to the Multi-effects concept for cover and tribute bands?  Like @KuruPrionz, I'm thinking more about songwriting and just playing with around these days with lyrics and chords.  My lead playing is now on the back burner.  Like @Winston Psmith, I appreciate the French Horn (and other instruments' masters) being unadulterated by phasers and Flangers while keeping the door open to new sounds and tweeks using the same instruments in the artistic world.  I saw the The Trans-Siberian Orchestra live which is a great example of putting Behtoven's 5th to the test:

 

 

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

3 hours ago, Larryz said:

There is a lot to be said for the hard work in capturing the original tunes note for note and I appreciate guys like you that can do it!

Well, I can barely do it, for some pieces, with A LOT of hard work and focus!

An example- well, two examples- that covers band wanted to add The Who's "Love, Reign O'er Me"; and a guy I did a one-time duo performance with for a benefit performance, asked me to learn The Who's "I'm One", he playing acoustic guitar and singing, myself handling the electric guitar parts. In both cases, I was stoked! I launched myself into learning the correct ways to play everything, nail the tones, with all the nuances and feedback and volume swells...  💫💖✨

And in both cases, they bailed on me, not trying to learn the songs themselves. I was all dressed-up with nowhere to go!  


I have need of fewer pedals chosen for very specific cover songs, so some that were staples for the covers band are going to be set aside on standby. I might even sell a few, but... probably not.    I have an array of pedals, and will get a few more, to get my own personal signature sounds and work with my playing techniques. Some are definitely NOT the usual suspects and are not seen so often on most player's 'boards!


I love a good flanger or phaser, and I'm coming back to chorus after decades of being sick of it. I'm very fussy about flanger and chorus pedals, so I have outstanding ones! However, I do not use flanger, phaser or chorus all the time- they're best kept to special passages that benefit from them and thus stand-out and really 'pop', rather than so often drenching everything in modulation and filtering to the point of it causing nausea... !

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

An example- well, two examples- that covers band wanted to add The Who's "Love, Reign O'er Me"; and a guy I did a one-time duo performance with for a benefit performance, asked me to learn The Who's "I'm One", he playing acoustic guitar and singing, myself handling the electric guitar parts. In both cases, I was stoked! I launched myself into learning the correct ways to play everything, nail the tones, with all the nuances and feedback and volume swells...  💫💖✨

I've never learned to play anything like the record (any record). My early bands played original songs written by various members (including me). There were always some covers mixed in but we just took the vocal melody, lyrics and chord structure and didn't worry at all about sounding "just like the record."

 

I did play for a while in a Motown band when I first moved up here. I learned the signature licks, ya gotta do that for songs like My Girl or I Want You Back. With just guitar, bass, keys and drums and two male lead vocalists it's pretty much impossible to reproduce the Motown productions, you'd need an orchestra, a choir with some female vocalists and often a piano, a Hammond and a clavinet but nobody has six hands!!!! 

 

I love The Who, saw them on the Tommy tour (the "real" Who with John Entwhistle and Keith Moon). They played the entire 2 record album straight through, flawlessly. None of them were slouches by any means but John and Keith were unapproachable monsters of music. What they did should not have worked but somehow they both made it happen. Roger and Pete would be less difficult to emulate sound wise but still awesome. Pete remains one of rocks best songwriters, ever.  

[Larryz]

@Caevan O’Shite, I think those 2 guys missed out on playing with you!  Chalk up those two tunes as a learning experience that you can still use and have fun with.  Having a lead guitar with the knowledge and the right equipment can really make a duo come alive.  Too bad they wouldn't take the time to learn their own songs LoL!  If you do take it out again with a new band, you might make a list of the tunes you worked so hard on, the pedals and settings, etc. and find bandmates that are likeminded.  The lead vocalist should pick the songs he/she wants to sing and the key, so that's the main guy/gal to talk to before getting involved IMHO.  I hope you do get back out there and pull those pedals out of mothballs...😎👍

 

@KuruPrionz, +1,000 I never play it like the record. I've always got to do it my way and love arranging my tunes.  I jam with buddies and have played in bands, but when I do open mic's, I play solo for the most part and have played solo gigs.  I do not copy leads but I do get the gist of the original and when playing songs like My Girl, Brown Eyed Girl, Johnny B., Pretty Woman, etc. I know the opening riff has to be there.  I just fake it with my own take as I don't spend the time to tab it out and learn it note for note. The audience does know what's coming as it's close enough to get by, even with my own little twist on it.  😎👍

 

@Thethirdapple, I hope we haven't segued too far off course and you find the right pedals and/or multi-effects unit (they can be combined) that will get your juices flowing. 😎👍

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

On 2/3/2024 at 9:48 AM, Caevan O’Shite said:

I bet you'd like, maybe even love my sound if we jammed. I bet you'd hate using my gear.   

All I need is a guitar. Most of the time I play either an unplugged electric guitar or an acoustic guitar. I bet you'd hate my gear more than I would hate yours!!!

I can rip on just about anything, 55 years of playing almost every day will do that to ya. 😇

[Thethirdapple]

Everyone’s perspective is super helpful.
 

And going off on tangents is fantastic for brainstorming and thinking obliquely.🤪

 

I had been exploring different effects with “low-end” pedals, not recommended… Then I began to explore effects thru old skool DSP rack units, as well as running thru some synths and sound modules for processing, somewhat better. Another attempt to explore effects and signal chaining is by using plugins/vst/audio units. This is perhaps the most rewarding and least expensive route. Although I have concerns whether an “emulation” is close enough to the hardware circuitry… But in the end, using a computer or tablet is exactly what I want to avoid in the studio or gig’s.

As I suffer from g.a.s. Getting into pedals seems like embarking on an endless mountain trek of new gear.😱

Vintage gear hits home for me, anything good to say about the older Vox, Korg, Roland  “floor boards”?

[Caevan O’Shite]

17 hours ago, Larryz said:

@Caevan O’Shite, I think those 2 guys missed out on playing with you!  Chalk up those two tunes as a learning experience that you can still use and have fun with.  Having a lead guitar with the knowledge and the right equipment can really make a duo come alive.  Too bad they wouldn't take the time to learn their own songs LoL!  If you do take it out again with a new band, you might make a list of the tunes you worked so hard on, the pedals and settings, etc. and find bandmates that are likeminded.  The lead vocalist should pick the songs he/she wants to sing and the key, so that's the main guy/gal to talk to before getting involved IMHO.  I hope you do get back out there and pull those pedals out of mothballs...😎👍

In both cases, we still did play together- for years with the covers (and some originals) band, and also that one-shot dua=o performance. We just didn't do those particular songs, and others.

In that covers band, I sometimes even made out charts, diagrams, tab, notes on details customized for the other guitarist(s), the bassist(s), even the singer(s), for some of the songs. I say customized because I had the individuals in mind, as well as their respective instruments! No notation or "Nashville" stuff, but info that outlined the changes, recommended fingerings and positions, etc. etc. I was all into stuff like using a capo and a given key like Townshend  did on some songs, etc. etc. etc.


My next band will have ME ultimately in charge, though with plenty of room for everybody's input. And the emphasis will be primarily on originals; that'll be the whole point. And THAT will all also heavily influence my pedal and other gear choices.

[Winston Psmith]

1 hour ago, Thethirdapple said:

As I suffer from g.a.s. Getting into pedals seems like embarking on an endless mountain trek of new gear.😱

Vintage gear hits home for me, anything good to say about the older Vox, Korg, Roland  “floor boards”?

 

Pedals Proliferate, Period. Once you start collecting them, well, you'll see . . . At one point, I had well over 100, and no, there was no reasonable way that I was going to use them ALL at one time.

 

As far as some of the older floor units,I have a LOT of experience with the Boss GT-series MFX. Feel free to PM me, if you like.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to take a big step back, for a moment, just to give some perspective.

 

Think of your "sound" as a structure, of a sort. The Foundation of that structure is your Guitar tone, the next part of that structure is going to be your Amp tone, and for many of us, the next critical step is finding the right OD or Distortion sound. Everything else comes afterwards, AND should complement, or enhance, the rest of the structure. Whatever effects you choose, and whether you choose individual pedals, or an All-In-One MFX, your main consideration should be your sound, and what works for you.

 

[KuruPrionz]

4 hours ago, Thethirdapple said:

Everyone’s perspective is super helpful.
 

And going off on tangents is fantastic for brainstorming and thinking obliquely.🤪

 

I had been exploring different effects with “low-end” pedals, not recommended… Then I began to explore effects thru old skool DSP rack units, as well as running thru some synths and sound modules for processing, somewhat better. Another attempt to explore effects and signal chaining is by using plugins/vst/audio units. This is perhaps the most rewarding and least expensive route. Although I have concerns whether an “emulation” is close enough to the hardware circuitry… But in the end, using a computer or tablet is exactly what I want to avoid in the studio or gig’s.

As I suffer from g.a.s. Getting into pedals seems like embarking on an endless mountain trek of new gear.😱

Vintage gear hits home for me, anything good to say about the older Vox, Korg, Roland  “floor boards”?

I had a Korg multi effects long ago. It worked fine but I wasn't impressed by the sound. Chip technology has advanced, no two ways about it. There is a place for some single pedals, I regret selling my T.C. Electronics Flashback Delay - it was the big one with 3 presets and a tap tempo switch along the bottom. You could dial in various delays including reverse and/or modulation effects like chorus/flange. It sounded great, I should have kept it!!!! I still have a Tech 21 Double Drive 3x and that is a fantastic overdrive/distortion pedal with 3 presets. Highly recommended. That said, sometimes it's easier to just use a multi, the Boss ME-80 sounds much better to my ears than the old Korg I had years ago. Just FWIW, do what works for you!

[Larryz]

9 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

My next band will have ME ultimately in charge, though with plenty of room for everybody's input. And the emphasis will be primarily on originals; that'll be the whole point. And THAT will all also heavily influence my pedal and other gear choices.

 

Having an all originals or mostly originals band is a great way to go!  I have an old buddy that stopped doing any covers and started writing, recording and performing his own originals.  He said the reason he did so was "nobody can tell me I'm playing it wrong" LoL! 😎👍

[p90jr]

I have an HX Stomp, which is like a Helix crammed into a smaller box, and I'm blown away by the amount and quality of effects in that thing... man!!!

I also have a Variax guitar, which has just about every popular configuration of guitar modeled into it (including acoustics). It's very impressive.

I still use a lot of actual guitars, though if I'm playing a cover gig the Variax comes in very handy and it's my primary guitar for those gigs, ceding to a Tele with a palm B-bender for country songs and my Heritage Les Paul thing for some classic rock LP songs, just because I feel like it...

I thought the HX Stomp would be a good recording tool, but bundled with it you get a software thing that loads into your DAW that does all of the same stuff more directly... the HX Stomp (and an iPad attached to control the parameters) is great as the effects engine when I play through my Komet AmbiKab... I have yet to be able to gig with that set up, though... when I have mentioned it for upcoming gigs in bigger rooms where the band is fully mic'ed, the soundguys grumble about giving me 3 channels and dealing with all of that... I think if I ever use it I will have to bring my own mics and mixer and argue to get stereo channels and premix the (1) guitar mic + (2) stereo effects mics down to two channels... but you think they'd want some separate control over that... 

Anyway, I use individual pedals mostly for gigs, because there's more control on the fly over things... I do have a Zoom MS-70CDR, which is a chorus and delay and reverb multi-effect the size of a pedal, and I'm playing with adding that in... but I think there's "creativity" in how you use effects pedals on the fly. Also, every performance space is different... and sounds different. I mostly gig these days with one or two Supro Supremes, which are amps with basic volume and tone knobs (just 2) but even then the tone knob gets futzed with in every space... and the same with EQ knobs on the dirt boxes and preamp pedals. I compare this to a guy I've been gigging with a lot who uses a Boss multieffect thing... who sets up and is thrown off for the first part of every gig because something doesn't sound right and he can't stop singing to bend over and futz with it, while I can take the tip of my shoe and nudge pedals while I'm playing and singing... especially something like the Phaser pedal I've been using tons for these gigs, for the Waylon Jennings 70s outlaw country songs, or the 70s Bee Gees and Andy Gibb songs or the funk numbers we'll decide to do spontaneously.

So that's my answer to this never-ending argument: I have friends who play completely through Kempers into powered speakers specially catered to guitar, and they sound great... but they're stuck with what they already have programmed. I have more instant creative freedom... even if I grab a pedal and switch it out with something in the chain, that's quicker than what they have to go through... and they cede that point. Also, I played a Solid State amp for a long time and still have a few I like and use, but whatever it is about that tube sag has gotten under my skin and I do start to miss that if I'm not playing through a tube amp.

But any "pro" is going to use any and everything if needs it... the Supros are very clean if you want them to be, and even the amp models of the HX Stomp sound cool through them, so I play around with that and that might end up onstage. Still, nothing in that box makes me as happy, personally, as my Crowther Hot Cake pedals working their magic on actual preamp tubes.

[RABid]

I use both, and use them on guitar, bass, keys and my modular synths. The following opinion is from someone who was a professional on keys, and only plays guitar for fun and enjoyment.

 

Guitar and bass: Just give me a good multi-effect with an integrated foot pedal and let me program it ahead of time. 

 

Keys: Years ago built in keyboard effects were very mediocre. I used a lot of guitar effects to boost the sound. Built in effects have come a long way and now the only thing I use on keys is my Vent 2 Leslie sim.

 

Modular Synthesizer: Love guitar effects on modular. This is when dedicated effects pedals, knobs to twist, and the search for sweet spots really pays off. I realize the same can be said by a good guitarist with a great ear who is also looking for those sweet spots that only pedals can give, but I am not that guitarist. My ear developed for synths.

[Caevan O’Shite]

22 hours ago, p90jr said:

...ceding to a Tele with a palm B-bender for country songs and my Heritage Les Paul thing for some classic rock LP songs, just because I feel like it...

And who wouldn't?   

 

19 hours ago, RABid said:

...guitarist... ...looking for those sweet spots that only pedals can give...

Here, here! Hear, hear! There's the rub... DM/MFX don't seem to ever offer up quite that kind of dynamic and pitch responsiveness and interaction, with very few exceptions.

My Strymon Iridium is fantastic that way as far as a digitally-modeled tube-amp sim goes, so I suspect that it's possible that some DM/MFX units might.

In general, various pitch, filter, and time-domain effects offered up by DM/MFX units don't deliver there, either. There are individual digital pedals that can and do, but their processing power and design are pretty dedicated and focused, unlike the 'Jack-of-All-Trades' that DM/MFX units attempt to be.

Whether using my Iridium or the DigiTech GNX4 as a substitute for a 'real amp', each and every individual pedal that I ever put in front of their input was 100% all-analog. Digital Overdrive and Distortion are usually pretty mediocre- though there are some such pedals out there that I have not yet tried. Digital fuzz or octave-fuzz? Eff and jettison that crap! I did and do place digital pedals after their outputs, though.

[p90jr]

3 hours ago, Caevan O’Shite said:

And who wouldn't?   

 

Here, here! Hear, hear! There's the rub... DM/MFX don't seem to ever offer up quite that kind of dynamic and pitch responsiveness and interaction, with very few exceptions.

My Strymon Iridium is fantastic that way as far as a digitally-modeled tube-amp sim goes, so I suspect that it's possible that some DM/MFX units might.

In general, various pitch, filter, and time-domain effects offered up by DM/MFX units don't deliver there, either. There are individual digital pedals that can and do, but their processing power and design are pretty dedicated and focused, unlike the 'Jack-of-All-Trades' that DM/MFX units attempt to be.

Whether using my Iridium or the DigiTech GNX4 as a substitute for a 'real amp', each and every individual pedal that I ever put in front of their input was 100% all-analog. Digital Overdrive and Distortion are usually pretty mediocre- though there are some such pedals out there that I have not yet tried. Digital fuzz or octave-fuzz? Eff and jettison that crap! I did and do place digital pedals after their outputs, though.

I was actually thinking about this after leaving this thread:

A bandmate/buddy is a Kemper devotee... constantly kind of telling us we need to ditch our amps and "get with the future." He was originally a bassist but he plays keys and synths more than anything, usually... he wants bass and guitar to respond like synths, if that makes sense... that's kind of how he approaches them. And when I think of the younger players I know who are devoted to digital sims, they're kind of the same way (they pride themselves on not bending strings like "some 70s boomer") and they kind of play guitar like they're synths... touch dynamics are not part of what they do... but then, if I feel like being a jerk, they've grown up listening to horrible digital music formats compressed to hell with music recorded to be soft one moment then kick to really loud with no subtlety in between...