Kurzweil K2061 61-note synth!

[Sean M. H.]

The line between the "K" series and the "PC" series became blurred around the PC3, by my estimation.  The PC3 was so powerful that it became difficult to distinguish it from the K series.  I think the only real difference was real sampling (with actual inputs, vs just loading in samples).  Same with the PC4.  It's basically a full fledged synth/workstation at this point--without true hardware sampling.  So much more than just a "Performance Controller"

 

Not to beat a dead horse--but this is why I've said I don't understand what gap Kurzweil is trying to fill.  I said earlier that one possible--though unlikely--explanation was that they'd discontinue the PC4...so in that context, interesting that the PC4-7 appears to be moving that way.

[felis]

I thought they had it nailed.  K - heavy metal casing with a heavier duty keyboard.  PC - light weight for moving around more.

 

I think it would make more sense to have a PC461 instead of the upcoming K2061.

[J.F.N.]

37 minutes ago, Sean M. H. said:

The line between the "K" series and the "PC" series became blurred around the PC3, by my estimation.  The PC3 was so powerful that it became difficult to distinguish it from the K series.  I think the only real difference was real sampling (with actual inputs, vs just loading in samples).  Same with the PC4.  It's basically a full fledged synth/workstation at this point--without true hardware sampling.  So much more than just a "Performance Controller"

 

Not to beat a dead horse--but this is why I've said I don't understand what gap Kurzweil is trying to fill.  I said earlier that one possible--though unlikely--explanation was that they'd discontinue the PC4...so in that context, interesting that the PC4-7 appears to be moving that way.

 

It's clear that they probably experienced overlap problems with a positioning that may have been confusing for many clients. Three models, Forte, PC, and K, I can see how that may have been tough to market to different specific segments, probably leading to internal cannibalisation in one way or the other.

 

It will be interesting to see how they differentiate the 2088 from the 2700, and what happens to the PC4-8 in the end (most probably very close to EOL).

[YashN]

11 hours ago, Sean M. H. said:

I think the only real difference was real sampling (with actual inputs, vs just loading in samples).

There were other differences: Vocoder Mode, Live Mode.

[MorayM]

Just last week I was designing a small rig and was wondering if I'd ever be able to get my hands on a PC3K6 for it and then I see this thread!

 

The marketing for it does seem odd though. Isn't the K2700 the successor to the K2600 which was the successor to the K2000? Is it supposed to be a PC461 instead of a K2761?

[YashN]

1 hour ago, MorayM said:

Isn't the K2700 the successor to the K2600 which was the successor to the K2000?

It's not that simple.

 

If you ask Kurzweil, then the K2700 is a successor of the K line but...

 

1. The PC3 line had improved V.A.S.T. with Cascade Mode and Dynamic Editing, Anti-aliased DSP oscillators, improved 4-pole Ladder Filter model and more, improved Arpeggiators, and improved KDFX. Amidst hostile takeover shenanigans and decimation of the team, it was deemed easier to restart with the PC line than with the K line

 

2. This continued with the PC3K line where user samples could also be loaded

 

3. V.A.S.T. also came with a DX7-compatible FM engine since the Forte and PC4, K2700 line

 

If you ask me though: a true K-line successor to the K2600 should also still have a Vocoder, and should also be able to process external audio through the V.A.S.T. section. As it is, the PC3 lines and the Forte and the new K line do not have either the Vocoder, nor Live Mode which allows the external audio to be processed in real-time by V.A.S.T. before hitting the KDFX section...

 

That last one is a massive missing feature. A really large number of possibilities is missing because of this.

[MorayM]

Yeah audio input is one of the things that makes a workstation a workstation. But then it seems like the traditional workstation market is really shrinking.

 

In terms of Kurzweil lineage, the Forte really muddied the waters. It was billed (rightly) as a stage piano, but it also happened trumped the PC3K for sound design.

 

Personally I'd like to see the PC series continue as lightweight gigging keyboards focused on the internal samples, and the K series as the power user workstation model with user samples, audio input etc.

 

And while we're at it, bump up the speed and resolution of the VAST envelopes and LFOs!

[Still VanDerGraaf]

I think if Kurzweil really want to shift more units, USB audio is a must these days, on any board they produce.

 

A godsend in the studio (DAW integration/audio transfer) and on stage (where Ipad or laptop audio/midi integration can really take some weight off or enhance a stage keyboard's capabilities).

 

Watching all of this with interest.

 

I was pondering on a PC4-7 but was not sure about the action- I have realised top quality actions matter a lot to me. In a way, I am glad that it has gone to the Legacy Products section, as it should mean the replacement will have better features. Despite the size, the K2700 has also had my attention.

The past few weeks have seen me come 90% of the way towards pulling the trigger on something Kurz. I suppoze I should hold off for now in light of new developments.

 

If there was a K2700 76 I would buy it tomorrow.

 

The 2061 and 2088 are intriguing, very keen to hear about the final specs. Wonder how much longer we will have to wait?

[Jim Alfredson]

On 7/14/2024 at 9:26 AM, YashN said:

 

 

If you ask me though: a true K-line successor to the K2600 should also still have a Vocoder, and should also be able to process external audio through the V.A.S.T. section. As it is, the PC3 lines and the Forte and the new K line do not have either the Vocoder, nor Live Mode which allows the external audio to be processed in real-time by V.A.S.T. before hitting the KDFX section...

 

That last one is a massive missing feature. A really large number of possibilities is missing because of this.

I agree. And it would be SUPER useful for me because right now if we do Sheep in the Pink Floyd tribute band I'm in, I have to bring another board to do vocoder effects. I really wish the K2700 could do it. It can process audio from the inputs through the KDFX engine but there is no vocoder.  

[UnderGroundGr]

It was not so simple to use vocoder with K2600, it was not just plug and play...

[Still VanDerGraaf]

44 minutes ago, Jim Alfredson said:

I agree. And it would be SUPER useful for me because right now if we do Sheep in the Pink Floyd tribute band I'm in, I have to bring another board to do vocoder effects. I really wish the K2700 could do it. It can process audio from the inputs through the KDFX engine but there is no vocoder.  

Agreed- I'm playing Sheep for the first time in less than 2 weeeks, and while Kurz is generally THE goto Pink Floyd board, wouldn't it be nice to have that back?

 

This ties in with what I am saying about USB audio- at least with the 2700 I could run an ipad vocoder to do it and seamlessly integrate it- audio and midi together.

 

 

edit:

I just remembered that the newish SP7 Grand has a vocal harmoniser on board- which claims to be able to generate vocoder-style processing. Would love to see that included in the 2061/88. No reason why one board shouldn't do it all. 

Kronos was that board for more than a decade, and as we all know, was a huge success because of it.

[zxcvbnm098]

12 hours ago, Still VanDerGraaf said:

Agreed- I'm playing Sheep for the first time in less than 2 weeeks, and while Kurz is generally THE goto Pink Floyd board, wouldn't it be nice to have that back?

 

This ties in with what I am saying about USB audio- at least with the 2700 I could run an ipad vocoder to do it and seamlessly integrate it- audio and midi together.

 

 

edit:

I just remembered that the newish SP7 Grand has a vocal harmoniser on board- which claims to be able to generate vocoder-style processing. Would love to see that included in the 2061/88. No reason why one board shouldn't do it all. 

Kronos was that board for more than a decade, and as we all know, was a huge success because of it.

Don't forget that earlier in this thread Dave Weiner mentioned that the SP7 is kind of an odd-ball model, and not designed by their team in NE. 

[ABECK]

9 minutes ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

Don't forget that earlier in this thread Dave Weiner mentioned that the SP7 is kind of an odd-ball model, and not designed by their team in NE. 

Dave Weiser.  Dave Weiner is in a whole different industry.  😄

[zxcvbnm098]

35 minutes ago, ABECK said:

Dave Weiser.  Dave Weiner is in a whole different industry.  😄

Argh....spell"check"......yes of course, Weiser!

[felis]

7 hours ago, ABECK said:

Dave Weiser.  Dave Weiner is in a whole different industry.  😄

 

Don't miss - Dave Weiner and the Odd-Ball Models.

 

Now playing at a venue near you.

[Still VanDerGraaf]

13 hours ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

Don't forget that earlier in this thread Dave Weiser mentioned that the SP7 is kind of an odd-ball model, and not designed by their team in NE. 

I missed that actually- my thoughts still stand. Wonder why development and design was farmed out for that one.

[J.F.N.]

This is starting to become a bit ridiculous now...

 

Anyone know what's going on?

 

🤪

[felis]

13 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

This is starting to become a bit ridiculous now...

 

Anyone know what's going on?

 

🤪

 

Maybe Behringer bought them. 

 

New K series - coming in 2034.

[AnotherScott]

On 7/12/2024 at 6:35 PM, Synthaholic said:

If the PC4 is still in production then they should still be doing OS updates for it, and they're the same for the PC4-7.

On 7/13/2024 at 12:12 AM, YashN said:

Normally, it should be the same and usable, but then, why put PC4-7 in Legacy?

 

Presumably the PC4-7 is Legacy because they have run out of them and are not making more. Maybe because they didn't sell well enough, maybe because that action (which is essentially the only difference from the PC4) is no longer available from Medeli (or not cost-effectively so), maybe because a replacement is in the works, who knows. (Well, maybe Dave knows.) Regardless *if* there are more PC4 updates, I doubt they would not work in the PC4-7.

 

But I'd say there is also a question about the premise, "If the PC4 is still in production" -- it may or may not be. It's possible that they have decided to phase out both the 88 and the 76, and the 76 is in the Legacy category now only because they ran out of it first. 

 

Or not. 🙂 

 

I also noticed that the PC4SE is already Legacy too, and that one is not even quite 3 years old. Maybe part of phasing out the whole PC4 line? Or maybe too much target-market overlap with the SP7?

 

Personally, I'd like to see PC4/PC4-7 updated with an SP7-style touchscreen interface.

 

 

 

 

[J.F.N.]

2 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Presumably the PC4-7 is Legacy because they have run out of them and are not making more. Maybe because they didn't sell well enough, maybe because that action (which is essentially the only difference from the PC4) is no longer available from Medeli (or not cost-effectively so), maybe because a replacement is in the works, who knows. (Well, maybe Dave knows.) Regardless *if* there are more PC4 updates, I doubt they would not work in the PC4-7.

 

But I'd say there is also a question about the premise, "If the PC4 is still in production" -- it may or may not be. It's possible that they have decided to phase out both the 88 and the 76, and the 76 is in the Legacy category now only because they ran out of it first. 

 

Or not. 🙂 

 

I also noticed that the PC4SE is already Legacy too, and that one is not even quite 3 years old. Maybe part of phasing out the whole PC4 line? Or maybe too much target-market overlap with the SP7?

 

Personally, I'd like to see PC4/PC4-7 updated with an SP7-style touchscreen interface.

 

 

 

 

 

I would be all over a K2776, skip the fugly drum pads, no interest in the audio interface either, but keep the action and just cut off a few keys...

 

 

[felis]

I had a PC4 when I got my first PC4-7.  There was an OS update for the PC4.  I contacted Fran at Kurzweil and was told it can be used in both.

 

Only the K2700 and PC4 are listed under pro keyboard/workstations/synths: https://kurzweil.com/workstation_synthesizers/

and it's been that way for a while.

Hard to say where they'll go from here.

[MorayM]

Guess we've got to wait till winter NAMM? 😔

[J.F.N.]

6 minutes ago, MorayM said:

Guess we've got to wait till winter NAMM? 😔

 

Hopefully that will be a release then!

 

 

[zxcvbnm098]

My guess too. They will likely announce prices leading up to NAMM......maybe December? Or just wait 'til NAMM?

[jarrell]

On 9/5/2024 at 8:28 AM, AnotherScott said:

 

Presumably the PC4-7 is Legacy because they have run out of them and are not making more. Maybe because they didn't sell well enough, maybe because that action (which is essentially the only difference from the PC4) is no longer available from Medeli (or not cost-effectively so), maybe because a replacement is in the works, who knows. (Well, maybe Dave knows.) Regardless *if* there are more PC4 updates, I doubt they would not work in the PC4-7.

 

But I'd say there is also a question about the premise, "If the PC4 is still in production" -- it may or may not be. It's possible that they have decided to phase out both the 88 and the 76, and the 76 is in the Legacy category now only because they ran out of it first. 

 

Or not. 🙂 

 

I also noticed that the PC4SE is already Legacy too, and that one is not even quite 3 years old. Maybe part of phasing out the whole PC4 line? Or maybe too much target-market overlap with the SP7?

 

Personally, I'd like to see PC4/PC4-7 updated with an SP7-style touchscreen interface.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd just like the PC4 (or PC5) to add USB audio and MIDI support, like the SP7 has.

[Synthaholic]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:28 AM, AnotherScott said:

Personally, I'd like to see PC4/PC4-7 updated with an SP7-style touchscreen interface.

And a better keyboard. I'm noticing velocity inconsistencies after 3 years.

[Still VanDerGraaf]

It is weird that there have been absolutely no updates on this for so long.

 

And I know there's no point wishing for a 76 anymore. We're all doomed to carrying around instruments that are too small, or ones that are just too big and heavy.

 

Hopefully you all are right and December might be announcment time- still a hell of a wait though.

 

 

[YashN]

It's not weird at all: it takes time to turn a prototype into a production item with quality.

 

As for the 'PC' becoming a 'K', it's just reclaiming the 'K' line.

 

'PC' is supposed to be a Controller originally, not a full-fledged V.A.S.T. synth like the PC3. They developed that from the PC2 codebase, not the K codebase at a time full of pain: there were substantial layoffs and difficulties, and a decimated R&D team, but they somehow pulled through with Extended V.A.S.T.

 

From there, they added the DX7 Algorithms and continued to improve the number of simultaneous KDFX units.

 

It would be important to also reclaim both the Vocoder Mode and Live Mode that we lost along the way from K2500S/K2600S to the PC3 series.

 

IMO, it's possible the future catalogue will be 'K' for the flagships.

[Sundown]

I absolutely love Kurzweil (I’m a PC361 owner), but I think the competitors’ model line-up makes more sense. With Roland and Yamaha you have Flagship, and stripped-down Flagship (and perhaps ultra-stripped-down Flagship in the sub-$1K range). 

 

I think there’s really only a market for an 88-key flagship, a 61-key flagship, and for a much narrower niche, 76-keys. Put everything you’ve got into that single instrument line-up.

 

I’m glad to see Kurzweil doing a synth-weighted action again, but the sex appeal of the K2061 falls short… There’s something to be said for a keyboard’s physical styling, and the K2061 isn’t quite there. The new Montage M’s by comparison look like sports cars.

 

Todd

[b3plyr]

2 hours ago, Still VanDerGraaf said:

It is weird that there have been absolutely no updates on this for so long.

 

And I know there's no point wishing for a 76 anymore. We're all doomed to carrying around instruments that are too small, or ones that are just too big and heavy.

 

Hopefully you all are right and December might be announcment time- still a hell of a wait though.

 

 

Forte 76 was great. In fact, I think the Forte is the most practical keyboard (maybe also the K2600) Kurzweil has made.