Kurzweil K2061 61-note synth!

[poserp_returns]

42 minutes ago, johnchop said:

 

poserp… a name I have not heard in a long time.  A long time. 😀

I see what you’re saying. That’s … a pretty great idea actually.

 

But I was told there would be no math. 
 

 

 

 I like math, I try to do it so other people don't have to. I also, I've found, really really like playing drums, so that's a thing that I do quite a bit these days. These two paths will converge shortly...

[Tom Williams]

3 hours ago, poserp_returns said:

Oh hey people, some may know me from other places. As my username says, I have returned. I think my old username (poserp) was used by me in the past but associated with an email address that's no longer active, so it is now orphaned.

Welcome back, dude!  It's great to "hear" from you on the forum again  Your youtube videos were a major factor in my PC3 / VAST education. 

[UnderGroundGr]

5 hours ago, poserp_returns said:

Oh hey people, some may know me from other places. As my username says, I have returned. I think my old username (poserp) was used by me in the past but associated with an email address that's no longer active, so it is now orphaned.

Anyways, so a thing that VAST does (kinda where I left off before I fell into the timewarp (pun intended) of learning to play drums) is allow a control source to set the sample start point. If said control source is KeyNum, you can effectively use arpeggiators, sequencers, and other things to "play" a drum loop back at whatever tempo, without changing pitch. IIRC I was in the middle of figuring out all the math for that, along with how to set up FUNs to do it. So basically while it'd be cool to have, there are (per usual w/VAST) other ways to accomplish the same thing. It's not as elegant as, say, the Akai-inspired method of mapping a loop across pads. But, when you have 127 different "pads" generally there will be some key/note num that corresponds to where you want to play within a loop. This can be combined with another control source, such as a knob/fader/the ribbon, to fine-tune how the loop is "mapped" across the keys. I have a K2700, so I am also going to work this out with the pads to do some of the Akai-style sample manipulation stuff with those.

I will probably switch over to a K2061 at some point, I'm a big fan of synth actions as opposed to piano actions and losing the pads and audio interface bits aren't a huge "loss" for me. Plus, I like the overall look of the knobs/sliders/buttons on these new boards.

Welcome back poserp!

[The Piano Man]

1 hour ago, UnderGroundGr said:

Welcome back poserp!

What other names from the past would people like to see return?

 

Names I remember include…

 

P120dUdE (aka ChrisM250)

 

Kiramamoru (spelling?)

 

EvilDragon

 

FlatEarth

 

GigMan

[UnderGroundGr]

All of them...🙂

[Radagast]

It sounds like the relationship is like this:

 

Korg Kronos > Nautilus 

Kurzweil K2700 > K2088

 

except that Kurzweil was smart enough to keep the 9 sliders/drawbars.

[mvshb]

I am new to kurzweil. I cant understand their product  lineups.
On the website SP7 have new ATST engine, while K2061 have VAST.
Is there any reason to wait for K20xx series.
If SP7 and K2088 is same price which will be better and what will be I loosing over k series.
 

[Konnector]

I think ATST is based on presets that you can tweak to some extent. On the other hand V.A.S.T. allows you to tweak/create pretty much whatever you want. 

[ASCAMP]

On 1/26/2024 at 6:40 PM, Dave Weiser said:

Just got this photo from my friends at the Kurzweil booth at NAMM...

It's got a metal enclosure, large ribbon, and the specs should be similar to K2700,  minus the drum pads and audio interface. It's got synth keys, but the action is unknown/undecided at the moment. 

 

Note to Kurzweil: I am ready to spend money on this. Your website lists the KaP1, which nobody else has any idea about, but nobody (including your own website!) knows a thing about the K0 (assuming the name sticks?) series. I really hate when Kurzweil do this; either provide some details or don’t tease. Do they not understand the inherent ADHD nature of their audience?! I am losing sleep over this! 

[ASCAMP]

On 2/8/2024 at 1:19 AM, mvshb said:

I am new to kurzweil. I cant understand their product  lineups.
On the website SP7 have new ATST engine, while K2061 have VAST.
Is there any reason to wait for K20xx series.
If SP7 and K2088 is same price which will be better and what will be I loosing over k series.
 

I love Kurzweil. I’ve been a fan of theirs since they K250 in the early/mid ‘80s. I’ve owned several of their products and currently own (and am extremely pleased with!) the K2700. I have never understood their marketing! And I still don’t! The bottom line for me is, does Product X solve a real problem or set of problems I have? The answer is a resounding and continual “Yes!” with the K2700. That said, from the first I would have preferred similar technical capabilities in a 61-key form-factor. So I’m very interested in this K2061 but stymied at getting any info on it. 

As far as the SP7, this is apples and oranges to the K series. If you need the most basic of synthesis capabilities (e.g tone-shaping, &c), then you will do great with a SP; they have a long pedigree, I’ve owned a couple myself, and they’re extremely capable whilst sounding very good on their own merits. If you need seriously deep synthesis and sound-design capabilities, then don’t bother with anything (from anybody!) but VAST and the K series. Seriously, even the default patches – as great as they are – are only scratching the surface of what one can do with VAST. Dave Weiser, on this channel, provides some really nice updates to the quality that the K-series can provide. There are several others (e.g Barb, Jordan Rudess, Sine Vibes, &c) that really show what the platform is capable of. 

And, no offence to Kurzweil, but if you need just a great stage piano, look at Korg, Nord, Studiologic, &c. Kurzweil stage pianos are overkill for 80% of the players in the market (and underkill for the other 20%, TBH). 

[mvshb]

44 minutes ago, ASCAMP said:

I love Kurzweil. I’ve been a fan of theirs since they K250 in the early/mid ‘80s. I’ve owned several of their products and currently own (and am extremely pleased with!) the K2700. I have never understood their marketing! And I still don’t! The bottom line for me is, does Product X solve a real problem or set of problems I have? The answer is a resounding and continual “Yes!” with the K2700. That said, from the first I would have preferred similar technical capabilities in a 61-key form-factor. So I’m very interested in this K2061 but stymied at getting any info on it. 

As far as the SP7, this is apples and oranges to the K series. If you need the most basic of synthesis capabilities (e.g tone-shaping, &c), then you will do great with a SP; they have a long pedigree, I’ve owned a couple myself, and they’re extremely capable whilst sounding very good on their own merits. If you need seriously deep synthesis and sound-design capabilities, then don’t bother with anything (from anybody!) but VAST and the K series. Seriously, even the default patches – as great as they are – are only scratching the surface of what one can do with VAST. Dave Weiser, on this channel, provides some really nice updates to the quality that the K-series can provide. There are several others (e.g Barb, Jordan Rudess, Sine Vibes, &c) that really show what the platform is capable of. 

And, no offence to Kurzweil, but if you need just a great stage piano, look at Korg, Nord, Studiologic, &c. Kurzweil stage pianos are overkill for 80% of the players in the market (and underkill for the other 20%, TBH). 

 

Thanks for your reply.
I done a detailed look and found something
Similarly priced PC4SE and SP7 have completely different programs. 

These SP7 programs doesnt look like the kurzweil we know.
They are manufactured by korean company https://www.hdc-youngchang.com/eng

[Tusker]

On 2/1/2024 at 11:02 PM, poserp_returns said:

 I like math, I try to do it so other people don't have to. I also, I've found, really really like playing drums, so that's a thing that I do quite a bit these days. These two paths will converge shortly...

 

Welcome back poserp. Enjoy our discussions of FM and VAST and sound design very much. Here's to more. 

 

🍻

[Dave Weiser]

On 2/8/2024 at 3:19 AM, mvshb said:

I am new to kurzweil. I cant understand their product  lineups.
On the website SP7 have new ATST engine, while K2061 have VAST.
Is there any reason to wait for K20xx series.
If SP7 and K2088 is same price which will be better and what will be I loosing over k series.
 

 

The SP7 is not related to any of Kurzweil's pro products, and was not designed by their main R&D team in Boston. It is not compatible with  and cannot load files from PC4, K27, PC3, etc., the way the SP6 could. It's been plagued with bugs and has been a bit of a flop. Kurzweil is not alone - plenty of companies make similar missteps. While the SP7 was a disappointment, the PC4 and K2700 seem to be going strong and have been well supported with OS updates.

 

I was happy to see their showing at NAMM this year, as the K2061 and 2088 appear to be winning products that showcase the company's strengths. 

 

 

[Dave Weiser]

14 hours ago, ASCAMP said:

The bottom line for me is, does Product X solve a real problem or set of problems I have? The answer is a resounding and continual “Yes!” with the K2700. That said, from the first I would have preferred similar technical capabilities in a 61-key form-factor. So I’m very interested in this K2061 but stymied at getting any info on it. 

The K2061 spec is identical to the K2700's, minus the drum pads and audio interface. The action has not been decided. My guess is that it will be TP9 or TP8 synth action. The K2088 action will be TP40L, just like the K2700.

[UnderGroundGr]

1 hour ago, Dave Weiser said:

The K2061 spec is identical to the K2700's, minus the drum pads and audio interface. The action has not been decided. My guess is that it will be TP9 or TP8 synth action. The K2088 action will be TP40L, just like the K2700.

Thank you Dave.

If the price is around 2000 euros I will go for it, depending on when it will be released.

Akai MPC key 61 is around 1300 euros and I'm thinking about it very seriously. In this price range nothing comes close...

But I am a Kurzweil guy and I don't want learn to work on a new platform...

 

[mvshb]

10 hours ago, Dave Weiser said:

 

The SP7 is not related to any of Kurzweil's pro products, and was not designed by their main R&D team in Boston. It is not compatible with  and cannot load files from PC4, K27, PC3, etc., the way the SP6 could. It's been plagued with bugs and has been a bit of a flop. Kurzweil is not alone - plenty of companies make similar missteps. While the SP7 was a disappointment, the PC4 and K2700 seem to be going strong and have been well supported with OS updates.

 

I was happy to see their showing at NAMM this year, as the K2061 and 2088 appear to be winning products that showcase the company's strengths. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the heads-up
Ordered PC4SE.

Line could be simplified like this
SP- Entry level stage/home piano (built in speakers would be nice)
PC- Actual stage piano for pros
K- Full blown workstation

Kurzweil should ditch the rest KA, KP, MPS CUP....

[UnderGroundGr]

Τhey should have already put the touch screens to 2700...

[felis]

7 hours ago, mvshb said:

 

Thanks for the heads-up
Ordered PC4SE.

Line could be simplified like this
SP- Entry level stage/home piano (built in speakers would be nice)
PC- Actual stage piano for pros
K- Full blown workstation

Kurzweil should ditch the rest KA, KP, MPS CUP....

 

Pretty much agree about the lines, except my version would be:

 

SP - Stage Piano for pros

PC - Performance Controller with VAST/FM/KVA/KB3/sequencer

K - adds sampling/Live Mode, audio interface/audio recording and pads

 

I'd also like to see them do a straight-up midi controller (no sounds) with the controls of the PC4 and pads.

Also probably a good idea to have one entry level board with speakers to draw people in.

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, mvshb said:

Kurzweil should ditch the rest KA, KP, MPS CUP....

 

presumably they make money selling those models, even if to different consumers than they sell those others to.

 

Though also, I liked the KA90 as being one of the few sub-30 lb boards with nicely loud speakers, e.g. for solo/cocktail application. (Pretty useless sounds, but worked very well with an iPad.) And as a fan of slim slabs with narrow control areas that allow you to put a second board's keys very close to its own, the new KaP1 looks very appealing, except it's too heavy.

[mvshb]

5 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

presumably they make money selling those models, even if to different consumers than they sell those others to.

 

Though also, I liked the KA90 as being one of the few sub-30 lb boards with nicely loud speakers, e.g. for solo/cocktail application. (Pretty useless sounds, but worked very well with an iPad.) And as a fan of slim slabs with narrow control areas that allow you to put a second board's keys very close to its own, the new KaP1 looks very appealing, except it's too heavy.

But without the Kurzweil sounds there are better option from competition.
Sub $1000 is ruled by Yamaha
For VAST sounds, starting  price is $1500
Another thing is global availability. I am spending $300+ to get PC4SE shipped to this part of the world

[Fleer]

On 2/11/2024 at 9:00 PM, Dave Weiser said:

The K2061 spec is identical to the K2700's, minus the drum pads and audio interface. The action has not been decided. My guess is that it will be TP9 or TP8 synth action. The K2088 action will be TP40L, just like the K2700.

Cheers, Dave. 
Then what would be the main internal difference between the K2088 and the PC4 ?

[Sean M. H.]

 

3 hours ago, Fleer said:

Cheers, Dave. 
Then what would be the main internal difference between the K2088 and the PC4 ?

 

 

That's a great question...would seem, based on what's been discussed thus far, that the differences are 1) increased wave rom (believe the k2700 had more than the PC4--though less than Forte)...and 2) onboard ribbon controller...3) internal power supply...4) metal chasis...

 

Am I forgetting anything?  Possibly different actions? 

[UnderGroundGr]

36 minutes ago, Sean M. H. said:

 

 

 

That's a great question...would seem, based on what's been discussed thus far, that the differences are 1) increased wave rom (believe the k2700 had more than the PC4--though less than Forte)...and 2) onboard ribbon controller...3) internal power supply...4) metal chasis...

 

Am I forgetting anything?  Possibly different actions? 

K2088(fatar) - PC4(Medeli)...

[Radagast]

On 2/12/2024 at 8:24 AM, mvshb said:

But without the Kurzweil sounds there are better option from competition.
Sub $1000 is ruled by Yamaha
For VAST sounds, starting  price is $1500
Another thing is global availability. I am spending $300+ to get PC4SE shipped to this part of the world

If the K2061 is to be successful, it will have to be under $1500.  The K2700 sells for $2999.00.  The K2088 will have to be substantially lower than that.

[UnderGroundGr]

2 minutes ago, Radagast said:

If the K2061 is to be successful, it will have to be under $1500.

It's very difficult for a synth with metal chassis to be under $1500.

PC4-7 with plastic chassis and medeli keyed is around 2000$...

 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Radagast said:

If the K2061 is to be successful, it will have to be under $1500.  

 

Nautilus 61 with aftertouch is $2200, Fantom 6 is $3000, Montage M6 is $3500... even the non-aftertouch, plastic chassis, wall wart Fantom-06 is $1600  and MODX6+ is $1500. I'm not seeing why K2061 must be under $1500 to be competitive.

 

2 hours ago, Radagast said:

The K2700 sells for $2999.00.  The K2088 will have to be substantially lower than that.

 

Just based on features/functionality, it would seem that the K2088 would be priced between the PC4 and the K2700. But at the moment, there's not much spread there. Maybe they intend to lower the price of the PC4 and/or (as DW suggested was more likely) raise the price of the K2700.

[Konnector]

4 hours ago, UnderGroundGr said:

It's very difficult for a synth with metal chassis to be under $1500.

PC4-7 with plastic chassis and medeli keyed is around 2000$...

 

 

I'm not so sure that a plastic chassis is any cheaper to produce than a metal chassis. I think the main reason manufacturers have gone the plastic route is to save on shipping costs and provide a lighter keyboard to lug around. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Konnector said:

I'm not so sure that a plastic chassis is any cheaper to produce than a metal chassis.

 

It depends on the volume. Plastic would have a high initial fabrication cost, followed by relatively small subsequent per-unit cost. So for low volume, metal can be cheaper; for high volume, plastic is usually cheaper. 

[mvshb]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:59 PM, UnderGroundGr said:

It's very difficult for a synth with metal chassis to be under $1500.

PC4-7 with plastic chassis and medeli keyed is around 2000$...

 

A PC4SE 61 could be $1000. 😁

[YashN]

https://kurzweil.com/2024/02/08/the-k20-series/

 

Quote

We asked ourselves, what if we could rebuild the legendary K2000 V.A.S.T. synthesizer, but using today’s technology?

Enter the new K20 Series…