How Would You Handle This Band Situation

[Reezekeys]

45 minutes ago, Stokely said:

One kinda wonders at the value of a soundcheck at 2pm that will be followed by 7 others, are they saving settings or what?  

 

It stands to reason you'd have to be saving settings - otherwise there's no good reason for an early soundcheck. What's probably the case is that you have multiple bands to check, and need to be done before the festival opens. I've done a few soundchecks at around noon for some of these daytime festivals - even though we were the headliner playing in the evening! That's how it works – last band to play checks first.

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

 

It stands to reason you'd have to be saving settings - otherwise there's no good reason for an early soundcheck. What's probably the case is that you have multiple bands to check, and need to be done before the festival opens. I've done a few soundchecks at around noon for some of these daytime festivals - even though we were the headliner playing in the evening! That's how it works – last band to play checks first.

 

Especially when setting the band gear up in layers so you just strip off each bands gear after their sets.  Works good for keeping a show going, but sucks to be the opening act because so little stage area is left between gear and front of stage.    For shows I worked before retiring we'd save a copy of the board setting on a thumb drive so they could be restored before they go on.   If there are two big name acts then both act board setting will be saved.  The sound check is mainly to see if anything unusual that needs special attention otherwise for the opening acts the mix is kind of generic and tweaks will be made when they play.  That might get saved to in case some opening act has their own sound person who really screws things around, so we can get back to the basic mix fast.   Back in the days before computerized mixing consoles you would hear some really bad mixes for opening acts because sound crew was trying to not to change the mix for the main act.  Hey that's life when your not the big dog on the bill putting butts in the seats. 

[MathOfInsects]

Echoing some other sentiments, while I'm a fairly active advocate against the devaluing of musicians' time and status, there are plenty of times you take a gig and know the $core going in. It's not usually cover bands; I'm definitely not taking your four-set classic rock gig that goes 9-1 for "80 dollars but I think I can get you 100." But for original music or something that is otherwise cool to do and it's not counter-programming a wedding or something that pays real money? Sure, just ask. The worst that happens is I say no.

Relevant to this thread, though, is this: getting paid $50 does not make something a $50 gig. Every gig is the gig, it deserves your full attention and commitment. If you can't provide that, or are hung up on the pay, you should not agree to the gig. And if you can only do $50 conditional on other elements, you need to be clear about that up front. "The pay is no problem but I wouldn't be comfortable rehearsing too/getting there too long before showtime, so I can be sure to keep that time available for other options that make this one workable money-wise." Etc. Nothing we ever do is scaled according to pay; the pay conversation ends when we say yes, then we just have our job to do.

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

Relevant to this thread, though, is this: getting paid $50 does not make something a $50 gig. Every gig is the gig, it deserves your full attention and commitment. If you can't provide that, or are hung up on the pay, you should not agree to the gig.

 

Wisdom  worth repeating.     

 

You never know who is there that is watching and hearing you play,  if you half-ass through the gig you might of just lost a good opportunity.   Every gig or session is your calling card making others aware of you and your attitude. 

[cassdad]

4 hours ago, Docbop said:

 

Wisdom  worth repeating.     

 

You never know who is there that is watching and hearing you play,  if you half-ass through the gig you might of just lost a good opportunity.   Every gig or session is your calling card making others aware of you and your attitude. 

Yes - THIS!   I was cringing as I was reading some suggestions of just bring crappy lightweight gear, etc….  for me:  every time I play, no matter the money nor the venue, it’s an opportunity to showcase what I bring to the table, and I’m simply not going to sound my best on a crap rig / amp.  It’s like trying to win the Indy 500 in a ‘56 Volkswagen Bug - doesn’t matter how well you drive, you’re going to look inferior.

[jazzpiano88]

12 hours ago, JamPro said:

My first thought was to do the gig with my melodica.  I have one, but I never practice it, and I never worked on any of the band material with it, so that seemed like a bad idea, even if it nicely solved the logistical problems.

 

Seriously?  This would be perceived as a poke in the eye from all parties, not to mention ruining your band's and your reputation in a blaze of glorified protest.

 

It sounds like you effectively accomplished the same thing with your other approach and are now unemployed.   I'd say well deserved.

[TommyBoy]

1 hour ago, jazzpiano88 said:

 

Seriously?  This would be perceived as a poke in the eye from all parties, not to mention ruining your band's and your reputation in a blaze of glorified protest.

 

It sounds like you effectively accomplished the same thing with your other approach and are now unemployed.   I'd say well deserved.

I was just glad he didn't say use an accordion. After all, you could leave one of those on stage for days and nobody would steal it. 

[Adan]

Interesting case study, and I applaud the OP showing some humility and letting us use his experience as a learning tool. 

 

As I said somewhere above, I think the crucial issue here was relationship to bandmates. If the OP made a mistake, it was undervaluing the importance of showing solidarity.  By showing up later than everyone else and putting himself in a different class, he created bad feelings and I think the BL was acting appropriately to replace him. Maybe this band wasn't the right fit for the OP, but I fully agree with MOI that the best policy is to give your all for every performance because that's the reputation you want to have in the music community. If the band isn't working out, give them adequate notice, do what you can to help them meet their gig commitments, then say sayonara.

 

not trying to sound holier than thou. I've been in a ton of bands as a bandmember, and made mistakes in all of them.

 

I think a light rig is the way to go with these clusterf##k gigs.  makes it easier on you but also makes it easier on everyone else.  Setup and breakdown time delays everyone else, and the more time the sound pro has to spend on you the less they have for other people. But bringing your own monitor/amp means you won't have to worry about the provided monitoring, which for a gig like this is likely to be abysmal at best.

[niacin]

I've learnt to take my own monitor. Generally I set up and the conversation with the sound guy goes something like "yeh just a mono send, you can take a line out the back of my amp, it's an xlr, keeps it simple" and they smile and agree and life is good. But I did have one guy at a festival ask why I had a powered speaker on stage. I told him "It's my insurance," and smiled 😎🤣

[nadroj]

For me it’s a given that I’m not going to hear myself or even have a good playing experience at festival gigs. Unless it’s a big festival with monitors out the ears and a dedicated monitor tech at the side of the stage, that is. Those gigs are less sucky. 
 

With festival gigs we just put on a smile, get on stage and embrace the chaos. It is what it is. Can’t hear yourself? Cool, neither can anyone else. Hands freezing? Hah, me too. Crowd too far away/dead/can’t hear? Not my problem. Pain in the arse load in? Standard. (Unless you land one of those festivals where they give you a bus from the trailer to the stage 😄). Sound man grumpy and unsympathetic? I would be too. He’s had a way worse day than me. I’ll cut him whatever slack he needs. There’s no room for divas or even basic standards at festival/street party gigs in my experience. That’s part of what makes them fun. 
 

Waiting around 4 hours sucks. $50 sucks. But both of those things are part and parcel of festival gigs. Those things are both part of the experience.

 

Setting up and tearing down your gear twice isn’t unusual. Nor is leaving it backstage for 4 hours if you have the luxury of doing that. I’ve done huge events where I had to soundcheck in the morning, drive home and then come back 12 hours later to play. That was a big enough gig for it to warrant the extra time, but I would hate to do it somewhere too far to

drive home. 
 

Anyways, your band mates didn’t sound like they were the nicest or most sympathetic bunch. At the same time though, part of me thinks you should have just sucked up the setting up - especially if it was a single board rig. Not that that warrants your bandmate saying that about your gear (try telling a guitarist you don’t care about HIS gear…).

 

The thing that would have thrown me is the 4 hour wait and the crappy pay, and I can understand your frustrations there. Given that info beforehand, I would point blank refuse the gig - unless it was big enough for them to give me booze and a bus! 

[Stokely]

2 hours ago, Adan said:

I think a light rig is the way to go with these clusterf##k gigs. 

Then I realized that if it works for those gigs, it works for every other one too   

I might go back to a two-keyboard gig as I miss playing a couple of my keyboards, but I do enjoy the quick loading and setting up for sure.  I have to do a double take every time though..."am I forgetting something...?"

[Reezekeys]

Just now, Stokely said:

2 hours ago, Adan said:

I think a light rig is the way to go with these clusterf##k gigs. 

Then I realized that if it works for those gigs, it works for every other one too   

 

That's been my mantra for the last 15 years. With these kinds of gigs (and a lot of others), the playing is the only time you get to enjoy yourself - which, for $50, I would hope you get to do! Everything else - travel, schlep, setup, moving things, waiting around, sucks. Everyone should have a "bare bones" rig for siuations like this. I'm all set, with my iPhone or iPad, 10 lb controller and single-X stand. (Except that's not just my bare bones rig... it's my full-time one! 🙂 )

[kpl1228]

Rain.

Even if you have covering, ceiling leaks and blowing rain can wreck havoc on a keyboard left exposed to the elements. I know I'm not the only one that had to replace contacts that got soaked, and spent hundreds for the privilege.

As others have said, tarps and bungees. And put keyboard(s) back in their case/bag until ten minutes before showtime, with cords and stands run and standing in wait.

Been there done that. Weather can turn this experience into holy hell at this low level. For drummers with beautiful wooden drum sets with gorgeous veneers, it's disassembling hardware and drying. Perhaps the only instrument that deals worse with bad weather than keys. But a crappy festival gig does, as others have mentioned, warrant the possibility of having a "beater" set-up for bad outdoor gigs with threatening weather.

[Stokely]

Ditch the tarps and bungees, get a waterproof grill cover    Basically wind-proof as it slips over the rig provided you got one big enough.

I dread outdoor gigs here in FL.

[kpl1228]

12 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Ditch the tarps and bungees, get a waterproof grill cover 

This is a terrific idea.

[HammondDave]

This is why I don’t do gigs like this.  Just creates unnecessary stress for you and your bandmates. $50 is insulting.  If it was a super high profile gig where it’s going to be fun (and not a hassle), then maybe… but for something that is going to be a guaranteed shit-show, I would pass.  Considering the bad vibes created in this particular situation, and for the eventual sacking of the reasonable keyboard player, I say that we all learned a lesson.  
 

Also, anyone who gets into the arts thinking that they will make a living out of doing this, is being unrealistic.  I have a lot of colleagues who play music for a living, and they are just barely surviving.  I was fortunate to find another art to thrive in, and the only reason why I am successful and can survive as a designer is that I met the right people at the right time.  So I have the luxury of being in the bands and playing the gigs I want to.  Few have this luxury.
 

My advice for young people getting into the arts is to find a profession that can give you a financial means of living.  That was my father’s advice.  I did not follow it, but fortunately got very lucky as a designer/educator. I have seen countless others fail, and live very difficult, and financially challenging lives.  

[Reezekeys]

28 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

This is why I don’t do gigs like this.  Just creates unnecessary stress for you and your bandmates. $50 is insulting.  If it was a super high profile gig where it’s going to be fun (and not a hassle), then maybe… but for something that is going to be a guaranteed shit-show, I would pass.

 

The OP's issue is that he was part of a "band", and when you're in a band, each player doesn't usually have the option to individually yay or nay a gig as it comes up. With a low-bread situation the bandleader should ask everyone up front whether or not to take the gig, then go along with the consensus. I guess that didn't happen in the OP's situation, or maybe the BL did ask and the majority said yes - in which case you roll with it and do the gig, or maybe find an excuse to send a sub (if possible). But once the gig is booked and a majority of the band is down to do it, one generally can't simply "pass" and expect to stay  in that band. If staying in the band isn't important and the possibility of burning some bridges doesn't matter, then sure, pass - but it's usually not that simple.

[AnotherScott]

Just now, Reezekeys said:

With a low-bread situation the bandleader should ask everyone up front whether or not to take the gig, then go along with the consensus. I guess that didn't happen in the OP's situation., or maybe the BL did ask, and the majority said yes - in which case you roll with it and do the gig, or maybe find an excuse to send a sub (if possible). But once the gig is booked and a majority of the band is down to do it, one generally can't simply "pass" 

I think the variable here is what happens if everyone says yes... and THEN finds out that the gig is going to require an extra 3.5 hours of time compared to how it was first presented. I don't think it is then unreasonable to say, "oh, if that's the case, then sorry, I can't do it after all" and they'd have had the choice of accommodating a later arrival for him, or finding a sub, or putting together a 40 minute set of songs that still work sufficiently well without keys. It is also certainly possible that, having learned of the earlier arrival time, he legitimately could have been unable to do it because of some other commitment earlier in the day. The point is, changing the parameters of the gig after someone has said yes should not obligate them to saying yes to the new circumstances. (Though in this particular case, if the OP's only real concern was the safety of the rig, I probably just would have put the Nord back in its case, which would be enough to protect it... or maybe brought it back to the car if there was also a real concern about theft. The stand, etc., could have stayed.)

 

32 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Then I realized that if [the light rig] works for those gigs, it works for every other one too   

 

Yes, but maybe with some caveats.

 

The compromises of a super-light rig--or any rig versus some other more elaborate one--are going fall into the categories of sound, action, and/or operational ergonomics. 

 

As has been discussed here before, in most pop band situations, I think the sonic differences between boards are important almost only to the player. Virtually no one in the audience will know the difference between hearing a rompler organ vs. a Mojo or whatever. Or the difference between your best piano sound and what were considered great piano sounds 20+ years ago (like the "power grand" of the original Yamaha Motif, or the piano sound of the Korg M1). But that doesn't mean "only to the player" is irrelevant... better sounds could inspire you to give a better performance, or at the very least, make the gig more pleasurable for you. Though nIcely, with the ability to get quality sounds off of an iPad/iPhone these days, you don't have to make all the sonic compromises you used to, even in the smallest rig.

 

The action and the operational ergonomics of course are not directly experienced by the audience, but definitely impact your performance physically and/or psychologically, and in some ways sonically as well. I can give an "adequate" or "competent" performance on just about anything. But to play at my best and to really enjoy the gig, I can't totally ignore these other aspects. So as probably an inordinate number of my posts over the years have shown, I've spent a lot of time trying to balance simple/small/lightweight vs. satisfaction in sound/action/ergonomics. And as a result, I do sometimes take different gear to different gigs. I always travel light, but not always at my absolute lightest. But if I have to get on and off the stage in 5 minutes, or if I have to carry the gear long distances, or there is some other aspect of loading in and out that is going to be particularly cumbersome, I will further scale back the setup.

[ProfD]

Unless one needs whatever perks come with being *in* a band, IMO, mercenary musician or bandleader is the best of all worlds. 

 

A mercenary musician/bandleader gets to pick the band or musicians with whom they play and the gigs they're willing to take. 

 

Being a mercenary musician/bandleader still requires a high level of commitment and professionalism. Even moreso because they have to prove their value/worth to the situation. 😎

[stoken6]

43 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

what happens if everyone says yes... and THEN finds out that the gig is going to require an extra 3.5 hours of time compared to how it was first presented. I don't think it is then unreasonable to say, "oh, if that's the case, then sorry, I can't do it after all"

This. I never want to be in a position where I have to say "That gig I committed to doing? I'm not doing it". Whenever a gig comes up I always ask the same questions:

1. Pay

2. Address (to determine travel time)

3. Parking?

4. Time required (to arrive/leave)

5. Dress Code

6. (If a sub gig) Superstition in E or Eb?

 

I can then decide whether I want to take it. We all have our boundaries - personally in the same circumstances I might have said "I'll do an hour set at the festival for $50, but I'm not prepared to waste 3.5 hours for that money".

 

45 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

The compromises of a super-light rig

It's all about compromises. I've done "you get 10 minutes to set up and 5 to tear down" festival gigs with one lightweight board. I would prefer my full rig, but I'm not hauling it across a muddy field, up some slippery steps to a rickety stage, and trying to get past sound crew sorting out guitar cab mics. I could turn the gig down, or I could compromise. (Both are valid).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MathOfInsects]

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

Unless one needs whatever perks come with being *in* a band, IMO, mercenary musician or bandleader is the best of all worlds. 

 

A mercenary musician/bandleader gets to pick the band or musicians with whom they play and the gigs they're willing to take. 

 

Being a mercenary musician/bandleader still requires a high level of commitment and professionalism. Even moreso because they have to prove their value/worth to the situation. 😎

The funny thing is--and I was just talking to a colleague about this: in our world, if you can make a living as a freelancer, it means you must be pretty damn good and are doing a thing that others often aspire to. But out in the Muggle world, when people ask "who do you play with?" and you say, "I'm a freelancer, but I do have a few projects I'm involved in steadily," people hear that as, "I'm not good enough to be in someone's band." Like you're a substitute teacher or a sidearm pitcher deep in the line-up who is only used against lefties whose mother owns Crocs and only wears them to church and only if the Eagles lose in embarrassing style to the Cowboys.

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

When people ask "who do you play with?" and you say, "I'm a freelancer, but I do have a few projects I'm involved in steadily," people hear that as, "I'm not good enough to be in someone's band." [b]Like you're a substitute teacher[/b]

Like Ned Schneebly....  A temp.

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

...people hear that as, "I'm not good enough to be in someone's band." Like you're a substitute teacher or a sidearm pitcher deep in the line-up...

I hope these aren't the same people who might be able to pay $100/per as if they're squeezing lemon juice but they can definitely give up a strong $50/per for the best musicians in town.🤣😎

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

I hope these aren't the same people who might be able to pay $100/per as if they're squeezing lemon juice but they can definitely give up a strong $50/per for the best musicians in town.🤣😎

It's amazing how far the scale slides. On one end, if you want me to play your original music showcase at a recording studio in town, and it's homies in the band, for all I know I might never even ask you what it pays and count myself lucky if I see any Venmo at all from you show up.

 

On the other, if I don't know you and don't want to do your crappy-ass cover gig because it's bad music or bad musicians or too far out of town or whatever, I might give you the "please don't hire me" price of Ridiculou$ly Too Much and if you turn it down, I'm relieved, and if you take it, I'm stoked enough about the pay to ignore the rest.

This is such a common move that once I went to a rehearsal and the drummer asked about a gig I had just done, and I said, "It was OK but a nice payday. I asked for $600 for the two sets and she gave it to me." And without hesitation he said, "600? Oh, you didn't want to do the gig." Yep.

In the middle is a whole bunch of gigs in the sweet-spot zone where it's all as it generally should be.

This just reminded me of an OT situation, but a pet peeve: BL hires you for a private party. Usually it's a band of freelancers hired so that whoever is the front man/BL can take the gig. Pay is fine and details are straightforward, so you accept. Then a couple of weeks later the frontman/BL says, "Hey, I got us a street party the day before to use as a warm-up for the party. Who's in? No money but it will be a great opportunity to run the tunes together!" I HATE this. There is no such thing as "warm-up gig"; what you are describing is a whole separate gig that you want to hire us for. Since there's no money it means you literally cut the pay for the party in half. For some reason that doesn't sound as awesome as you think.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

Then a couple of weeks later the frontman/BL says...No money but it will be a great opportunity to run the tunes together!" I HATE this. There is no such thing as "warm-up gig"; what you are describing is a whole separate gig that you want to hire us for. Since there's no money it means you literally cut the pay for the party in half. For some reason that doesn't sound as awesome as you think.

Oh yeah...that's some sneaky 2-for-1 sh8t. BL/frontman deserves to have his azz whupped for suggesting it.🤣😎

[stoken6]

15 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

This just reminded me of an OT situation, but a pet peeve: BL hires you for a private party. Usually it's a band of freelancers hired so that whoever is the front man/BL can take the gig. Pay is fine and details are straightforward, so you accept. Then a couple of weeks later the frontman/BL says, "Hey, I got us a street party the day before to use as a warm-up for the party. Who's in? No money but it will be a great opportunity to run the tunes together!" I HATE this. There is no such thing as "warm-up gig"; what you are describing is a whole separate gig that you want to hire us for. Since there's no money it means you literally cut the pay for the party in half. For some reason that doesn't sound as awesome as you think.

I've had this. BL wanted to do his friend a favour: we were booked for the friend's wedding (sensible money, all agreed, no problems). BL announces we're playing a party a week later for zero money (justification: his mate is already digging deep in his pocket for the wedding gig).  *Huge* pushback from the rest of the band. BL had to pay us himself - and I think learned his lesson. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[surfergirl]

I was kind of an unofficial BL, probably because no one else wanted to be. It was usually fairly easy, we four kids who had grown up together. We had always been able to reach a consensus on everything, except once. 

We had booked a gig and were later offered one paying more, I made the decision that we would keep are commitment to the first gig. I feel I did the right thing, and I believe everyone would have agreed. My thought was if we took the higher paying gig we would get a reputation as being unreliable. I gave up the BL after that, because my boyfriend was part of the band and I didn't want perception that we we running everything.

Edit: When we were in the 7th grade our first gig was a result of another band backing out of our senior class dance, and with no one else available our drummers cousin recommended us, a decision he probably regrets. We weren't prepared for three 45 minute sets.