I'm getting too old for this crud.

[Sam Mullins]

Yeah, earlier this year I went from:

 

Stage 3(road case)/Kronos 61(road case):  117 lbs

   TO

CK88 (road case)/Arturia Keylab 61 (soft case)/iPad:  67 lbs

 

Big win on schlep factor and no regrets (although I am doing my first gig with Mac mini instead of iPad next week...but that's a different story).

[ProfD]

@tapes, I was referring to the CK61 key action as @CyberGene mentioned above.

 

The CK88 key action is OK. Between the two, I found the FTEC (finger to ear connection) better with the MOD8+ key action. YMMV.

 

Back in the old days of new KBs, key action wasn't really a consideration. Seems the cheapest pro-level KBs were decent. Times have changed. 

 

Due to the variety of KB choices and price points, it really pays to play the KBs for yourself nowadays.😎

[RABid]

5 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

... stopped accepting Silver Sneakers. All those years of paying monthly dues at a gym, although the YMCA wasn't bad 25 years ago.

My sister and I decided to use Silver Sneakers to join Planet Fitness. She is qualified now and I would be next year. Seems that Kentucky dropped the program for the Medicare plan used by teachers and state employees. Now trying to decide if I want to join as pay per month. PF seems a little iffey with their pay to apply, pay a yearly renewal, and pay monthly and must give them the ability to directly charge your bank account.

[RABid]

The keybed on the Fantom 7 is wonderful. It also has some really nice horn section patches which is exactly what the music director wants for the Christmas season. But, last night I stumbled across a minor blemish MODX6+ for a good price and 12 interest free payments. For $100 a month I ordered it. I've seen a lot of complaints about the action on the MODX line but I grew up in a house with a crappy piano and a Lowery organ. I'm very tolerant of key action. At 15 lbs. I will happily carry that MODX6+ back and forth to practice and Sunday services. I will not be playing piano parts and the 5 octave keyboard is big enough to set up some splits with horns on the right and chimes or bells on the left.

[16251]

12 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

That being the case, I went ahead and ordered another Nord Piano 5 88 from Calistro which should arrive early next week. The size factor will be perfect and hoping the new RCFs will help with the shortcomings I have with the Nord pianos. 

Over - Under?

[Delaware Dave]

christ, this has turned into a depressing thread.....

[AnotherScott]

I rarely know the logistics of a gig until I get there. These days I've mostly been using a Fantom-07 combined with a better piano board. But I've been torn between how much I enjoy playing the Casio 88 (around 26 lbs + case) and yet now finding sometimes even that to be a non-trivial amount of weight (which is depressing). So I've recently thought about a new strategy. I would drive to the gig with the Fantom-07 and both the Casio 88, and a super lightweight board that I find acceptable for piano, like the Casio CT-S500 (or maybe the Yamaha CK61). Then when I get to the gig and see what the load-in is like, I'll decide which piano board to go with.

 

13 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

I will say that going to the gym even once a week for 45 minutes to an hour and even doing light weight on the machines and dumb bells makes a HUGE difference. I'm a super lightweight there but just doing what I do, low weight, high reps, it just makes all the difference in the world.

I hit Like on your post. Kind of like how you feel when you first make the decision to actually buy a gym membership, I'm hoping that's enough to give me some health benefit.

 

About 5 years ago, I started exercising, either doing cardio stuff at the gym or taking a 30-40 minute walk, at least 3x a week. But I haven't really done anything for my arms (or legs, besides walking), and I'm noticing weakening. So I think I do have to add some weight work. Open to suggestions.

 

9 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

One of the bands i play in, the drummer pays a roadie who sets up and tears down all his gear.  this is for super crappy bar gigs, not theaters.  i'm pretty sure he loses money on the gig, but i am a bit envious when he casually walks out the door after the last note of the show.

If I were really just doing it for the pleasure, I could see doing that. But alas, I don't have the kind of income I used to... but I still have the same mortgage payment I used to. 

[Stokely]

I'm decently strong (always liked lifting far more than jogging, though I do love basketball), but the thing is:  there's good exercise, and bad   Toting gear is not the good kind.  It's the kind that hurts you.    And your car, and your gear, when you whack it into stuff (ok if you have a flight case then less hurt to the gear, more for everything else).   I'd equate it to gardening in that regard, though gardening can be nice for the mind. Same for my brief experiences as a construction worker as a Yute (as Vinny says it)...that crap just wears you down, doesn't build you up.

Definitely agree that doing the good kind helps when you have to do the bad.  I pulled something in my chest opening a damn zipper on a bag ( sorta like the guy in Costco above) that happened because I've been slacking in getting good exercise lately.

Our entire PA and gear other than drums can be packed up in 10 minutes or so.  Being on in-ears helps.  If I was our drummer I'd get e-drums pronto but ours is a) non-techie and b) poor so I don't expect that will happen!

 

[timwat]

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

christ, this has turned into a depressing thread.....

Ha!

 

I suppose that's one way to look at it. It's like that Brad Pitt line from "Moneyball" to Dave Justice - I want to squeeze the last bit of baseball you've got, and you want to stay in the game".

 

Another way to look at it is that we all grow old (if we're lucky...consider the alternatives), and our love and ability to make music thankfully extends well past the days our bodies can schlep a B3 in an Anvil case up two flights of stairs. 

 

Tonight I'm gigging a small trio where I gotta bring in the smallish PA. Ugh. But I love these two guys like brothers and it's a nice easy gig. Tomorrow I'm gigging with a semi-famous bass player who is now 80 years old. He only wants to do 45 minute gigs that pay well...and apparently that's a thing, at least for him. Who you know and all that.

 

At 62 I'm still trying to keep in good physical shape - not to keep playing, but simply to stay alive and enjoy life with my wife. We shall see how that goes.

 

Growing old doesn't have to be depressing. It's all in the meta narrative you tell yourself.

 

 

[Adam Burgess]

I was looking at something lighter than a Kronos 88 for just piano gigs… And, a Kronos 88 JUST doesn't fit in a Dubai taxi in a wheeled case, which is fine apart from transporting to a stage which could be miles from the nearest road 😞 

Used to have a P120 many years ago, and I always liked the action, and it was slim and light! No joystick etc to the left, so quite a bit narrower, too.
May risk something that has the GHS keybed. Think that will be fine (MX88, CK88, P225 etc. etc) - they're cheap enough and can't be any worse than that god awful Arturia Keylab mkII 88 I bought and sold in a couple of months or a Numa piano I had the misery of trying for a while, which I basically gave away to a church so they had a backup or to give someone as a practise instrument.

Mind, I did a conducting only gig last night. Carrying a laptop to put on the stand and walking straight outta the gig was life changing haha. Usually I'd be conducting from behind a rig of some sort, so always be out later than the flute player…

[timwat]

15 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

I just turned 70 back in June, yikes. I'm doing maybe 6-7 gigs a month where I have to schlep a keyboard. There are still scenarios where an acoustic grand is there but in two instances in the past months, I just couldn't bring myself to play on them, they were that bad. Both were major clubs in LA/Ventura. I don't know how all these great players can stomach it. At this juncture it's very simple-- either my way or the highway. Every gig I accept there simply can't be any compromises. If there are, call someone else. I'm not doing this for the dough anymore.

Dave, I didn't realize you were still playing that many gigs a month. Some of your posts made me think you were playing a lot less than that these days.

 

And does the Catalina still have that horribly nails-on-chalkboard bright piano? I remember years ago doing that short mini-tour of LA, Ventura, and San Diego with that singer and thinking the only house piano I enjoyed playing was the one in San Diego.

 

 

[The Real MC]

I'm 60 years old (I look twenty years younger) and am surprised I can still gig with 70lb keyboards in Anvil cases and racks.  I always used a cart though.  I could never bring myself to gig something bulky and heavy like a Yam CP70 or Hammond B-3, nor could I ask my band members to share in the torture of helping to carry them.

 

At my age my strength is still there, although my endurance is not.  I recognize there will be a day I can no longer cart keyboards around.  I had a hint of that the last time I moved myself with the help of friends.  I moved around a lot, but that last time really wore me out.  I decided I couldn't move myself anymore, and my friends are getting younger either.

 

I don't do exercise like weight training but I walk a lot.  Walking flights of stairs at work really helps to maintain the endurance and the weight.  When I was little I saw the problems my family had with back pain; I resolved to never develop them so I paid attention to proper lifting techniques.  My strength comes from my diet.  I eat healthy meals and have cut down the fast foods.

 

I'm about ready to quit the gigging business and stay in my recording studio - not out of age but out of frustrations with guitar players who dominate the song selection and forget and/or ignore the keyboard player in the band.  I'm bored of the guitar dominant blues, country, classic rock, especially the worn out bottom feeder songs that ten other bands down in FL are playing.

[stoken6]

18 hours ago, CyberGene said:

This is why I bought a CK61. Thank me later 😀

 

18 hours ago, ProfD said:

Not so fast.  The key action on that thing is horrible.🤣😎

 

18 hours ago, drawback said:

Compared to the YC61, it’s premium. 😎

 

How is it against other budget 61s like Roland DS, Yamaha MODX+, Korg Kross? How about Casio CT-S1 or similar?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[kpl1228]

My problem is, everything I loved was "built like a tank." 

However, I still want "built like a tank" for drunk-proof gig gear.  No keyboards with wall warts, no Apex-style stands, keyboards need to have strong endcaps (or I'm making them), any outboard gear in a 3-4 space sturdy-but-light rack case. I truly hate flimsy-but-convenient, though I get the need to go lighter.

I get traveling light, but when there's too much M-Audio plastic made for home studios, too much can go wrong when some drunk buffoon comes up to request Brown Eyed Girl (again). Been there done it t-shirt.

But what I don't miss? Those days of being a team player and five of us hauling 400-pound amp racks as tall as me, Cerwin Vega bass bins and other "carpeted" PA cabinets and their accoutrement up two flights of stairs to an upstairs club (I need 800-mg ibuprofen just reading that).

It's amazing how good some of the ultralight PA gear has gotten. And bass players have Mark Bass gear that you can fit in a duffel bag that is as light as a feather, they have a 2x8 cabinet that I swear is still large but must be made of balsa wood since I can pick it up with a finger.  Insane how light speaker cabinets and amps have become. 

I came up right after the guys with the Hammond/Leslie/Suitcase Rhodes era though... thank God for that. Though my CS 50 and KX88 etc etc did my back no favors.

We are all creatures of habit. We like what we like, and to me, it's all gotten lighter, so I'm not compromising great keyboard action and build for 4 or 5 pounds. Or even 10. Or with weighted action, even 15.

And you guys perching your precious plastic laptop precariously on some flimsy x-stand next to some drunk drummer? I don't know how you can even sleep at night!!!

And, like a previous person who posted, exercise and fitness is important. Joined a long-overdue gym last week to try to get my act together in some fashion. I turn 60 in a month and my days of lifting 80-pound PA cabinets onto speaker stands over my head by myself are long, long gone.

[AnotherScott]

10 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

How is it against other budget 61s like Roland DS, Yamaha MODX+, Korg Kross? How about Casio CT-S1 or similar?

 

It depends on the usage, but if you're talking about a 61 that is at least reasonably playable for piano in a pinch, I'd say Kross is worst, followed very closely by Juno DS. MODX is better than those two (with some velocity parameter adjustments), but still lower tier. CK61 is better than any of those. Out of the box, Casio CT-S500 (should be same as CT-S1) is better than the CK61. With velocity parameter tweaking, it probably gets to about the same.

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, The Real MC said:

 

I'm about ready to quit the gigging business and stay in my recording studio - not out of age but out of frustrations with guitar players who dominate the song selection and forget and/or ignore the keyboard player in the band.  I'm bored of the guitar dominant blues, country, classic rock, especially the worn out bottom feeder songs that ten other bands down in FL are playing.

As an aside, even in a band of 12 years where I feel valued, I still feel this frustration at times.

For us it boils down to mainly one problem:  needing subs.   We often need subs for our drummer and bassist, so out the window goes most of the songs off the beaten trail.  Many of these do have keys and some challenge to them.  Lido Shuffle is an example, Peg another.   In comes a sub, and no they don't know that one.  They do know Gimme 3 steps and a million other guitar riff songs though!   And a bunch of 90s rock that has no room for keyboards quite often.   I don't really hate those tunes, I find creativity where I can, but certainly it would be nice to move on from some of the "sub list" songs as I call them.

[kpl1228]

Looking forward to the upcoming handtruck/dolly thread!!!

[Docbop]

28 minutes ago, kpl1228 said:

Looking forward to the upcoming handtruck/dolly thread!!!

Working as a roadie for awhile I learned the value of a platform dolly.   Easy to make some marine grade plywood cut to desired size and four large casters.   So versatile. 

[BluMunk]

I just did a gig where I was loading in two keyboard rigs... my own PX-5S, and a Roland FP-7.

The PX-5S in its branded soft case I can lift in and out of anywhere one-handed.

The Roland in a more heavy-duty Gator soft case is almost unwieldy for me. Even lifting the keyboard on its own from the floor onto a stand takes a little bit of thought and careful movement. Lifting the board+case into a vehicle felt like I was taking my back's longevity into my own hands each time. (I know, I know... "I used to lift B3s uphill in the snow both ways!").

It reminded me why I replaced my Roland RD700GX with the Casio in the first place. 

 

I miss the more robust action that sometimes requires a heavier build, but for a gigging board there's no way I'd go back to 50lb boards (plus case).

I recently bought a Forte7, and that 41lb in a padded soft case with a relatively short length is about the max I feel comfortable hauling these days, and even that's on the edge (noting that the Forte7 is about the same weight as the Fantom 7, but 8in shorter, which I think makes a big difference in controlling the mass of the thing as you move it around).

[Adan]

There's nothing worse than manhandling a 40+ lb 88 keyboard up or down stairs. To avoid banging the keyboard on the stairs you need to keep it at least waist high, which is extremely awkward.  Keeping in shape helps but let's face it, most keyboard players are not weightlifters.

 

Reminds me of the corny old joke: a man goes to the doctor, curls his hand into an unnatural ball and say "doc, it hurts when I do this," and the doctor says "don't do that!"

[CHarrell]

19 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It’s a compact weight. It’s not difficult to lift from the case and get it up on the stand.   But I prefer a case with wheels or a cart for it.  

 

I agree, but especially in the city, there's a number of instances where I'm in that awkward territory of too close to a spot to justify driving (aka parking!!!), but too far away to just wheel my CP in its case and carry the Spacestation with my hands. I don't know if I'd get a dolly, platform dolly, handcart, etc., but I'd want it to be a small footprint and easy to cover for protection against the rain. 

[RABid]

6 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

I'd check out the local YMCA. We have three within 15 minutes of our house.

Glendale CA must be just a little bigger than London, KY. I'm in a town of 7000 people and it is considered big for the area. Closest YMCA for me is 60 miles. I will probably end up joining Planet Fitness again, despite those awful Laker colors. Need a better routine next time. First time I joined I mostly did the treadmills and ended up with a lot of knee pain.

 

Now, turning this thread to something more positive. It amazes me that I can get something like a MODX6+ or Fantom 06 for so little money. New keyboardist don't know how good they have it. I mean, seriously, a Fantom 06, brand new, is currently $1299. You no longer have to spend three times the money on gear than anyone else in the band.

[Docbop]

16 minutes ago, Dave Ferris said:

Yes Glendale is the 4th largest city in LA County. Last 2021 census was just under 200K.

 

Interesting made me check and I live in the 5th largest city in L.A. Country just we are about fifty-sixty miles out in the desert from most of L.A..  What is weird for a small city like we are how many gyms and one YMCA we have.   

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, CHarrell said:

 

I agree, but especially in the city, there's a number of instances where I'm in that awkward territory of too close to a spot to justify driving (aka parking!!!), but too far away to just wheel my CP in its case and carry the Spacestation with my hands. I don't know if I'd get a dolly, platform dolly, handcart, etc., but I'd want it to be a small footprint and easy to cover for protection against the rain. 

Dave Ferris is a fan of a particular hand truck he’s used over the years.  Maybe he can reference for us again.   
 

I use a rocknroller.  Mine is not as. As a compact as  hand truck.  And I don’t have a deck, if I were to do it again, I’d get the deck.  Bungie cords are a must regardless. 
 

https://rocknrollercart.com

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, BluMunk said:

I recently bought a Forte7, and that 41lb in a padded soft case with a relatively short length is about the max I feel comfortable hauling these days..

 

Let me know when you want to offload your Forte ....

[TommyBoy]

Lugged a Cordovox accordion and amp, the big single one, all over in my teens and 20's.  Probably weighed 100 pounds.  Had a huge metal bar handle on the top and wheels, but stairs were an issue.  I abused the poor thing.  Have to go up a flight of stairs for a gig? Pull it up backwards with each stair hitting the amp and making a THUMP sound. It worked for 30 years until the day I sold it a few years ago.

 

They don't make 'em like that anymore.

[CHarrell]

3 hours ago, RABid said:

irst time I joined I mostly did the treadmills and ended up with a lot of knee pain.

 

Yeah I have arthritis in my wrists and knees, ellipticals are the way to go if you want to get your cardio in! I use cardio as a way to warm up my body for resistance training and to up my stamina.

[Phil Aiken]

Also 60, and lug FAIRLY heavy gear around.  Always one full sized weighted keyboard at least, or a Vintage Vibe EP, usually with other stuff.

I was recently diagnosed with Tendonosis - colloquially known as tennis elbow - in both my elbow and Bicep. It is the wearing away of collagen around the tendons, as opposed to tendonitis, which involves inflammation of the tendons themselves. It is a 4-6 month recovery. If I could be happy playing a single non-weighted board I'd pick up a Stage 4 Compact and live with that for a while. But I can't. I'm old enough that it would do me good, but also too old to make that big of an adjustment. 

Fortunately, I have a mini-hiatus after tonight to focus on studio projects. It hurts like hell in daily life, and moving gear, but it doesn't hurt much to play, other than that wide intervals in my left hand have gotten uncomfortable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stokely]

You might want to give it a try for a bit.  Granted, I was coming mostly from playing everything including piano live on the unweighted Modx7, but I've taken surprisingly well to playing piano on the Nord Stage 3 compact.  I fully expected to always be pairing it with a weighted keyboard but I'm into minimalism at the present    Loading in one trip and setting up in <5 minutes definitely has an upside to go with the compromises!

[FatFingers]

The keybed on my Montage M8x is my favorite, but at 62 lbs it will never leave my studio.  For that matter, it will probably never be moved across the room.