Mono pianos revisited - what are you using?

[Skinny]

Nautilus owner here, BTW.
 

I really don’t want to rehash any stereo vs mono stuff… let’s just start with saying I’ve always run mono, and have no plans to change that. 
 

Is there any piano available for the Nautilus that you are happy with in mono? To me, they all sound like feces in the midrange. 

Users of other equipment (Yamaha, Roland, etc)- what mono pianos are you happy with?
 

I’m not opposed to switching to a different board (I’d like to stay with an 88 synth/workstation instead of running a tablet or laptop)

 

Thanks for any advice or opinions.

[ElmerJFudd]

It’s rare that a mono sample offered on a hardware keyboard is as pleasing to play and hear as the featured instrument offered in stereo.  Even if you go just R or L(mono) out, phasing issues and all.  
 

It would be nice to see a whole hearted effort to include a really fine mono sample library on all the usual suspects for gigging. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

The best two pianos I've found that work well in mono are the Synthogy American Grand soundset for the Yamaha Montage/Motif (based on the Ivory II instrument/Steinway D I believe) and the factory Yamaha S6 Grand sample in the Motif/Montage line - specifically the S6 Rock patch. I've also been impressed with the Nord White Grand and Black Upright samples in mono but don't currently own a Nord, so I have only used those occasionally.

[Stokely]

This is a frustrating subject.  B3 organs in mono tend to work fine.  Synths do too though you have to check some of the panned patches to make sure they don't cancel out when centered.  Same with any kind of effects-heavy patch.

Pianos always sound gross.  I'm reconciled to "what sounds the least gross".   As I've been gigging just a Nord Stage 3 lately, I like the White Grand.  It isn't *that* bad in mono, but man when I go stereo with our PA and a stereo in-ear mix, it certainly sounds much better.

My days of miking up a piano are long ago, and when I did it we did stereo.  So I don't know if a decent mono sampling is just impossible, or it's just that they do the sampling for the studio crowd that can always just use stereo.  But it's definitely annoying.   Kinda curious about whether modelled non-sampled pianos suffer from the same phase cancellation crap....not that I'm likely to change my rig at this point.

[Moonglow]

I didn’t like how any of the pianos in my Kronos 88 sounded, so I installed the Epic Grand, which has a dedicated mono patch. It’s not cheap, and perhaps getting a little long in the tooth, but it sounds better than the stock pianos, and has been the best remedy I could find.

 

I like how Nord’s “Bright Grand” works with the mono parameter engaged, but I seem to recall hearing that some of Nord’s pianos sound better than others when using this feature.

[niacin]

I found the Nord 'Black (Petrof) Upright' the best of their offerings when I briefly owned a red keyboard.

[hrestov]

Yamaha CFX of Cp73. And use only R output. Hands down. Sounds good for me, and for every people that listen at the gig because all listen the same sound. 

I never like L+R because of phasing issues. 
 

Maybe also the Cfx in the app just piano or genuine sound edition can go good in mono, but I have tested it only few times. 
 

[John Tweed]

Yamaha CP4 with the mono CF piano.

 

[Pianoman JC]

Yamaha CP4 with the mono CFX piano.

 

 

 

 

 

 

JC

[CHarrell]

5 hours ago, hrestov said:

Yamaha CFX of Cp73. And use only R output. Hands down. Sounds good for me, and for every people that listen at the gig because all listen the same sound. 

I never like L+R because of phasing issu

 

I vaguely remember seeing some posts about this, but why the R and not the L(mono) output?

[Al Quinn]

When forced to play my CP4 CFX mono through FOH I’m surprised at how good it sounds. Really quite nice!

[hrestov]

@CHarrell When you sum two signals of the same sound source (in this example a single note of a piano reprised with standard two mics) you always have some sound frequencies cancellations, because the 2 waves are similar, but taken from different distances from the sound source, so when the waves sum up in mono the different phases of the 2 wave causes cancellation o f some frequency of sound. 
 

So for piano I prefer always make mono taking or only L or only R  and at worst eq it a bit to balance the “lows on L and highs” question. No phase cancellation obviously. 
 

In any case, in my memories Yamaha always sound good in mono, also with my yamaha p70 20 years ago. 
 

but I’m not very experienced in other brands, I only had Yamaha and Nord and vst. Nord not very good in mono. 
 

I often use mono because at 90% of my gig I’m playing in front a single Speaker of my PA, generally in duo. With Nord I have never been satisfied from hearing from one speaker.
 

[Stokely]

I tried the R-only approach with my Modx, but unfortunately there were a number of non-piano patches that kind of fell apart (synth patches where the more prominent sound was on the left).  I would have had to go through every patch and "mono-ize" it so I just gave up and made the best of it with L(Mono).  It meant I followed AnotherScott's advice and used the other pianos in the Modx and not the CFX (which was my preference if in stereo).  Piano was the only instrument that caused me grief other than some really effects-heavy patches (that I tend not to use much anyway).

[hrestov]

Yes, obviously you have to re pan the patch that have multiple instruments panned too left or too right.  By the way this type of patches are not very “live friendly” because the public often listen only the nearer speaker, so he doesn’t hear the sound panned in the other speaker. 

The phasing issues in any case are only in piano patches, and also often strings. Other sounds aren’t a big problem. The hammond hasn’t phase cancellation, but Leslie seems a tremolo with L+R. Also here I still prefer only one side of Leslie. 

[ewall08530]

  I have been really enjoying playing and setting up patches on my new CK 88 at home but have been a bit disappointed with the piano sound and feel on 2 gigs with IEM’s.  After reading this thread it dawned on me that when I’m home I’m hearing the stereo speakers on the keyboard when I play the CFX Stereo piano but with the IEM’s on a gig, I’m not running in stereo and I can’t hear the keyboard speakers anymore.  
  One test at home with speakers off, IEM’s in and switch over to CFX mono and it sounds and feels better.  Duh!   
   Thanks for the reminder! 
  

[PianoMan51]

Yamaha CP4 CFX Stereo, right output.

[hrestov]

@ewall08530 for me, if you use in ear, run stereo is a must. Mono piano is dull in headphones, but not in real life. 

[SMcD]

Threads like this really make me wish I had two working ears.

 

Anyone have any piano-running advice for a one-eared man? I'm demo'ing a Kurzweil PC4 this weekend (I'm aware that I could do better piano-wise, but the PC4 seems to have the best overlap of piano and synth functionality for my uses), but only two of its piano patches are labelled "Mono" so I fear my options may be limited.

[The Piano Man]

Kurzweil Triple Strike. Yes, it is old. No, it doesn’t complete with stereo samples of multigigabit libraries. However, for gigging, it just works. YMMV

[Dave Number Four]

YC88 CFX right output.

[ewall08530]

18 hours ago, hrestov said:

@ewall08530 for me, if you use in ear, run stereo is a must. Mono piano is dull in headphones, but not in real life. 

If I might ask, what’s the best way for me to get stereo key’s in IEM’s.  Currently I’m running my keyboard into a Soundcraft Notepad mixer Left out & Right (when left hand bass) to FOH.  Notepad monitor out to Behringer P1 IEM mixer Left input.  The band monitor feed from FOH into Behringer P1 Right input.   

[Stokely]

19 hours ago, hrestov said:

@ewall08530 for me, if you use in ear, run stereo is a must. Mono piano is dull in headphones, but not in real life. 

While I agree that stereo IEMs sound great (though mostly for the ability to pan competing instruments and vocals apart), I have a policy now of always monitoring whatever I'm sending FOH.  If they want stereo--which is basically never--I'll run stereo.  This after a couple incidents where the sound person(s) said, your piano was way low, had to boost it every time.  I get the same from bandmates who monitor in mono.    To me in stereo the piano was borderline too loud.  I realize there will always be some differences due to speakers, this was more than that.

Pretty much the only time I am stereo is with our PA, which is in stereo and I can use my P16M monitor mixer that connects to our main mixer.  Otherwise I'm on a mono aux with either my in-ears or a wedge.

Re: monitoring in stereo - if you have a Behringer main mixer and a P16M, this is a big reason why I use that mixer.  Otherwise, I've done it with a mixer that has a pre-fader send (ironically, a Soundcraft notepad) that can take in the FOH aux feed and combine with stereo keys, which I'd then send to a headphone amp.  A variation is something like a Rolls P55 that does the combining of keys monitor signal (from my Key Largo) with the aux feed from FOH.  I like this because it doesn't have the possibility of feedback like doing it all inside one mixer does.

[hrestov]

@ewall08530

I have had a notepad 8fx, I don’t know if you have this model. 
it’s one of the few that has stereo aux. And I remember that you can listen aux in headphones. 
so you have to do this:

- press the switch “aux” up the phones knob

- insert your keyboards to stereo channel, and increase the fader of volume for your taste

- insert the monitoring from Foh to a mono channel (or stereo if he send stereo signal), and put the fader of volume to minimum, null, zero. 

- send L and R, or what you want, to Foh. 

- use the aux knob to balance the volume of keyboard and monitoring, you will have the keyboard in stereo and monitoring of others instruments in mono. 
 

no need to behringer power play, you link tour headphones to soundcraft mixer directly. 
 

[Stokely]

Does it have a limiter?  Not that I'm positive that the small chip limiters in the powerplays etc are super effective.  I had the one in my Shure pack kick on when I had accidentally turned things up way too loud, and I'm glad it was there.

That is a nice feature, being able to have the aux go to the headphones. 

[hrestov]

There is not a limiter. If you want I think you can use your aux output with a Y cable and enter in your behringer power play.  But you have to switch the “output type” to headphones. Or probably you can connect directly the Y cable to headphones output. 
So this only to have a limiter. 
(and you have to put power play in stereo mode). 

[Stokely]

That is what I did with my Soundcraft and Powerplay.  A bit of a hassle with extra connections.  Anyway didn't mean to sidetrack the mono piano discussion.

Basically at this point in time I can't say I'm "happy" with the Nord white grand in mono, but I've heard worse.  I deal with it.   I did a stereo gig last weekend with our PA and that sounded so darn good in my ears, the singer went out front for Bob Seger's Main Street (sung by guitarist) and she said it sounded amazing.

[1203]

Nord Stage, White Grand sample, right output. Works perfectly for me in rehearsal room and on stage.

[Stokely]

Hmm, I'll compare right output on the White Grand vs L(mono).  Unfortunately I'll probably have to go through and change all the other patches or at least check them, and they are fine with L(mono).   Maybe this could be a case where I could use the alternate output R into my key largo, I wonder if you can use L(mono) from the main outs and just L or R from the others?  I'll give it a shot, I've yet to even use the other outputs so far.

[hrestov]

If you have nord stage, I thing L output (output 1) is only L and not L+R. If you want mono L+R you have to push mono button, and so use R or L is the same. 

[Stokely]

Ah, good point, I usually do push that button...so that would negate my fancy plan of using the 2nd output since surely the mono button applies to both.

Anyway, I have a stereo gig using our PA this weekend, using IEMs because I'll be somewhat close to the drummer.  Glorious stereo with guitars banished to mostly one side it is!