What makes a local/bar band magical?

[RABid]

The answer has eluded me for over 40 years. I've tried and tried to figure it out. I've been in bands with an all star lineup that never built a following. I've been in bands in which the overall musicianship was subpar but the band was hugely popular. When I moved to Louisville in the 80's I watched a band and thought "how do you compete with that!?" Watched another band and thought "they are almost average." Two years later the almost average band turned out to be the most popular band in Louisville. The awesome band fell apart. Over the years, as my experience grew, my ability to judge bands didn't. 

 

One thought, is it all on the front person? 

[ProfD]

A great band has the *right* combination of talent, interplay and dynamics. 

 

It also helps to choose *good* songs according to the strength(s) of the band.

 

There is no magical pill or formula which is the beauty of a great band. 

 

A great band cannot be manufactured and/or duplicated by throwing talent onstage. 

 

A great band is a matter of the *right* folks getting together and making a joyful noise.😎

[KuruPrionz]

This is Roger Perry and The Trip years later. I flew down from Bellingham, probably 2007-ish to join in. 

Everybody came, this was one of those bands that had multiple members but not all at once and here we were all at once. 

I'm playing the 3rd guitar solo on this piece. The sound sucked, just a video camera. 

We had a 9 years run while I was in the band and drew well at the clubs. We pretty much gigged every Thurs, Fri and Sat and one time during the University's Vintage Days celebration we played 16 gigs in 14 days. Roger was a force of nature, he sang and knew thousands of songs off the top of his head. We all just jumped right in, the gigs were there so we really didn't have time to practice. Here's another one:

I used a guitar Roger had on hand, flying with a guitar is a PITA. It was fine, a good player. 

 

[Notes_Norton]

It's nebulous, musicianship is nice but not the answer.

 

First and foremost, play to the audience. You are not up there for yourself, you are not up there for other musicians, you are up there to please your audience.

 

Watch and react to the audience. It's not a lecture, it's a dialog. (It's the reason I don't do set lists. While I'm playing the current song, I'm thinking about what would be best for them right now. Is the dance floor hopping, do they need a rest, are they eating dinner and need some softer music, and so on.

 

Play what they want to hear, when they require it, and play it in the style they want to hear it. Knowing this is a talent that needs to be honed.

 

Make sure you are at the appropriate volume for the venue.

 

Smile and look like you are having a good time. Better yet, have a good time, remember, you are PLAYing music. Fun is the key word here, and having fun is contagious.

 

Dress appropriately for the gig

 

Be entertaining, and judge when it is right to talk to the audience, and when it is right to just play music.

 

Be flexible, if the dance floor is jamming, and it's break time, skip it. If it's the end, and they want one more song, play it. Or two.

 

If you do all this and love your audience, your audience will love you back.

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[GovernorSilver]

It's an interesting mystery.

 

The DC area has produced its share of local acts that progressed to national level careers.

 

One act I'm aware of that started small time after I moved to the DC area, was Snail Mail.  Snail Mail started as a solo act that played gigs in the basements of private homes.  My buddy insists I attended at least one of these small shows, but I really don't remember.  In a short amount of time, Snail Mail evolved into a full rock band, then began playing sold out shows at 1200-person capacity venues.  

 

I have observed that the lead singer/main songwriter cultivated a loyal legion of fans over time.  Every time I've seen Snail Mail play, I've heard the fans in the audience singing along because they know every word of the lyrics.    I have also observed that she engages the audience effortlessly - does not come across as forced at all.

 

No idea what magic formula she used to attract and maintain the loyalty of all those fans.   This is in an era when so many people her age can be drawn to so many other forms of entertainment such as streaming shows/movies, trivia night at their neighborhood bars/coffee shops, video games, etc... yet they choose to come to Snail Mail shows when they happen.

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

17 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

  I have also observed that she engages the audience effortlessly - does not come across as forced at all.

 

No idea what magic formula she used to attract and maintain the loyalty of all those fans

There you go.

 

It's not magic. It's love. Treat the audience like an extended family. Be comfortable with them, show them that you like them, and playing WITH them, not TO them.

 

The audience will know if you like them or not, and they will know if you are playing with them.

 

There is a lot of work involved in being a pro musician, but the work stops the moment you get on stage. This is the fun that all that prep leads to, and if it isn't fun, if you aren't having the most fun you can have with your clothes on, you might be in the wrong profession.

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[pinkfloydcramer]

I would say it starts with a great rhythm section. Add players that don’t let their egos get in the way of the music. Also I’ll mention the cliche about there being a charismatic front person, with the caveat that it is just as important they exhibit charisma to their band members who aren’t swayed by BS and striking poses.  IMO this comes down to authenticity, which I think is in short supply these days.

[Bill H.]

On 9/6/2023 at 2:08 PM, RABid said:

 

One thought, is it all on the front person? 

I think that nowadays it kinda is. When I watch the most popular local-ish bands (the ones that get paid in the thousands rather than hundreds), the kick is mixed so prominently through sub arrays that it covers a multitude of sins instrumentally. And with LED screens, moving heads on trusses, and fog putting on a show, the band doesn't really have to anymore. The vocals though - especially the fronts that make your jaw drop with their range and power -  that still has to be there. And it was with the two bands I've seen this year in this bracket. 

[Stokely]

A following?  Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with music.   One of the biggest cover bands in our area runs full tracks, including for instruments that are on stage, and they jump around like monkeys on crack.  They do live social media streaming (so I've heard) and a giant following that goes to see them to be seen.   I personally wouldn't play with them if given the chance as that's not my thing, but it works for them.

[Notes_Norton]

Be entertaining and give the audience what they want.

 

It's the same in any business. Entertainment is the product, and you have to give the purchaser (in this case, the audience) what they want.

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[ProfD]

There is no shortage of successful musicians who do not need a gimmick in order to maintain an audience.  They don't have to entertain.  The music speaks for itself.

 

Music as entertainment is the musical equivalent of junk food i.e. McDonald's.  The musical performance will sell but it is not the most nutritious or healthy consumption. 

 

The Rock band KISS is a great example of successful entertainers masquerading as musicians.  Their music has little or no value.  It's all about the show.

 

Musicians have to make a decision of whether they play music as an artform or a circus act or something in the middle. 😎

[Notes_Norton]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

There is no shortage of successful musicians who do not need a gimmick in order to maintain an audience.  They don't have to entertain.  The music speaks for itself.

And there are zillions of great musicians who need a day job to make a living because they are not entertaining enough.

 

The music speaks for itself for perhaps 5% of the world, the rest just want to hear memories, a repeated hook, or watch somebody on stage being entertaining and/or sexy.

 

Of course, there are the few who can become great stars in the jazz, classical, and other “art music” fields. But they are the minority. For every Stan Getz, there are thousands of sax players who want to play jazz, but will never get that chance.

 

I met Tom Scott once, many years ago. We got to talking, and he said (I'll paraphrase), There is a sax player somewhere playing in a Holiday Inn, in a place like Valparaiso, Indiana who can put me in his back pocket. But I was in the right place at the right time, had the right connections, showed up straight, and could do the job. Tom is a fine player, a nepo baby, and if it wasn't for his connections, he might be that guy in the Holiday Inn.

 

The days of getting up on stage and simply playing music are over. It ended with MTV, Alice Cooper, Pink Floyd, and others. People now expect a show, not a concert. In fact, and sadly, the show has become more important than the music in so many cases.

 

I love to stand up and play jazz music. When I did that, I played one day a week, but took a day job. To me, that was the ultimate sellout.

 

So I got in a 5-piece band, and in 1985 after personnel problems, split with the future Mrs. Notes and formed a duo. I make my own backing tracks (I play sax, flute, wind synth, guitar, bass, drums, keyboard synth, and vocals) and save the most fun parts to play live. We targeted the retirement audience, because it's a huge market here in Florida. At least we got to play a little jazz, along with Sinatra, Patti Page and their peers.

 

But as time went by, the Sinatra and swing jazz fans died, and the Elvis Presley fans moved into the retirement communities. Then Motown, the Beatles, Billy Joel, Prince, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Queen, Clapton, and forward. We have well over 650 songs, but we don't play a lot of the oldest ones anymore. Duke Ellington is long dead. Even Elvis need to be played very carefully. Time moves on, the elders die and are replaced by the newly retired.

 

We play pop music. We don't put on a show, but talk to the audience, play what they want, when they need it, and have a great time. I don't mind playing Brown Eyed Girl, Mustang Sally, Margaritaville, Toes, Rhiannon, Uptown Funk, or any of the others for the zillionth time. It's better than any day-job I know of. There are others who turn their noses up and say that those songs are beneath them. I say, working as a wage slave for some faceless corporation that couldn't care less about their employees, is the ultimate sellout.

 

Songs like that are the musical equivalent to junk food. It's not nutritious, but it's as fun as eating chips or oreos.

 

It's been a long time since I played a bop scale, a lot of ii V7 I changes, or anything extremely challenging. But I have fun playing to an audience, playing with that audience, and having a good time.

 

Since 1985, when I decided to play pop music for the people, and until COVID reared its ugly head, I was never out of work. I even had to block out time in advance for a vacation, or we wouldn't get one, we'd be booked. Now that the emergency phase of COVID is over, we are back to gigging and haven't had a week off in 2 years. I don't have to sell out as a wage slave. I make a living doing music and nothing but music, I don't take orders from anyone, I live by my good decisions, and hopefully learn from the bad ones.

 

There is more than one right way to go through life. I respect those lucky enough to play “art music”, and do not feel inferior in the least for playing popular music. Instead, I'm living a charmed life, “the dream” I suppose.

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[ProfD]

27 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

The music speaks for itself for perhaps 5% of the world, the rest just want to hear memories, a repeated hook, or watch somebody on stage being entertaining and/or sexy.

 

We targeted the retirement audience, because it's a huge market here in Florida.

 

We play pop music. We don't put on a show, but talk to the audience, play what they want, when they need it, and have a great time. 

 

There is more than one right way to go through life. I respect those lucky enough to play “art music”, and do not feel inferior in the least for playing popular music. 

Correct.  Your gig reads like something in the middle which is ultimately what musicians have to figure out.😎

[Ivan May]

There are lots of good rock bands and bar bands that have found success by being cover bands. But why go to a bar to hear people perform cover versions of good songs when Joan Jett and the Blackhearts can do it in your living room?

[cphollis]

Well, I believed there was a formula for putting together a great cover band.  I realized this after being in so many bad ones.

 

Also, I shouldn't be complaining about bands so much unless I was willing to start one of my own.

 

I put one together three years ago.  It's an excellent local cover band and does not suck.  Two strong vocalists, six strong musicians, great tech and production, well-rehearsed, etc.  We now have a wonderful local following, plenty of gigs, etc.  The write up of how I did it is in my sig.

 

I would say that "magic extra" that sets the band apart from all the others is that we all enjoy each other as people, we love playing music together in front of our local audiences, and the happy vibe just shines through. 

 

This was us last spring:

 

 

[niacin]

Most of the audience listens with their eyes (we musicians are the exception).  The rest follows.  Does the band look like they're having fun?  Do they look like they enjoy playing together?  Does the singer look like s/he's here singing for me?

[timwat]

What makes a marriage successful?

What makes a small business successful?

What makes a multi-country vacation successful?

What makes a band successful?

 

I think there are a lot of good suggestions and thoughts already in this thread. And like the questions posed above, there isn't one (or even five) simple answers. And part of this is because defining "successful" for each of the questions isn't a universal, one-size, monolithic definition. It's going to mean different things to different musicians, and it's going to mean different things to each of us in different seasons, as we all grow and evolve.

 

But that's only part of what makes this question challenging. While musicianship, ability to get along, mutual respect, love for the same kinds of music, and such all contribute, none of them are guarantees of success. For many bands, part of the success also rests in the musical mullet (groovin' in the back, sexy in the front).

 

But all of that ignores other important elements like having someone with a sound business mind, someone else riding herd to make sure everyone shows up on time (at rehearsals or gigs), an explicit (or implied) standard for musical competency, a benevolent dictatorship to keep first things first (I personally don't like band democracies if you want to accomplish anything), or a wise, strong, patient bandleader.

 

And then there's making sure everyone gets paid what they were expecting, or a band rapport that makes sure communication is honest and transparent, or a way to make sure the inevitable small disagreement doesn't fester into lingering interpersonal resentment.

 

IMHO, the list could go on and on and on... 

 

And I suppose for all the hard-and-fast I might be tempted to suggest, I can think of exceptions to the rule. So maybe there aren't any real hard-and-fasts to be found.

 

[ProfD]

13 hours ago, timwat said:

But all of that ignores other important elements like having someone with a sound business mind, someone else riding herd to make sure everyone shows up on time (at rehearsals or gigs), an explicit (or implied) standard for musical competency, a benevolent dictatorship to keep first things first (I personally don't like band democracies if you want to accomplish anything), or a wise, strong, patient bandleader.

Brotha Tim, spot on as always.😎

[George Toledo]

Aside from groove, general good musicianship, song choice…

 

The thing that really does it for me is when a cover band has multiple singers and they nail harmonies. It will make me enjoy songs I don’t even usually like.

[bill5]

On 9/6/2023 at 5:08 PM, RABid said:

The answer has eluded me for over 40 years. I've tried and tried to figure it out. I've been in bands with an all star lineup that never built a following. I've been in bands in which the overall musicianship was subpar but the band was hugely popular.

This is true across the board. If quality and popularity ever had a consistent correlation in music, that ship sailed a lonnnnnnng time ago. I've heard so many crap "musicians" who became internationally famous and trillionaires and many incredibly good ones who could barely get a local gig.

 

As Tim said, it's complex. Many things can and often do go into it, and sometimes I think it's luck as much as anything. 

 

I don't agree with "it's all about the front man," though that can be the case. But, well at least around here, most of the most popular groups are truly groups, with no one standout person. 

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:25 PM, IMMusicRulz said:

But why go to a bar to hear people perform cover versions of good songs when Joan Jett and the Blackhearts can do it in your living room?

Because in your living room, the image is in 2D, and all the sound is coming from the same set of speakers. Plus, there is no “live” ambience, the band and you (the audience) cannot interact.

 

The live performance is a dialog between the entertainer and the audience. When you watch a life performance on TV, you are a watcher. When you attend a good, live performance in person, you are a participant.

 

Notes ♫