New Dexibell stage pianos S8, S8M and S4 - some info

[avon]

Bonners UK have pages with specs (possibly incomplete) for the new Dexibell S8 and S8M and S4. No pics yet. Not on Dexibell site yet (21st July).

The 88 key S8/S8M uses Fatar TP40GH keys. (Same as Kurzweil K2700 TP40L keys but Graded Hammer weighted. The TP40L is good but suffers from a bit of bounce on release – is underdamped). Hopefully the TP40GH version is better, though not likely as good as the TP400W on the S10 or Numa X GT.

The S8M looks like S8 but has speakers.

The S4 has 73 keys of type TP100. Strange these not the newer TP110 as used in Numa X 88/73 (maybe Fatar keeps the TP110 just for their Numa X offshoot!)

Links:

https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/products/dexibell-s8-stage-piano-88-keys

https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/products/dexibell-s8m-stage-piano-with-built-in-speaker-system

https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/products/dexibell-s4-stage-piano-73-weighted-keys

[ProfD]

I give Dexibell props for staying in the game.  I have no idea of how they do it.  I don't know any musicians who own a Dexibell KB. 😎

[jazzpiano88]

Here's tasty clips of Russell playing Dexibells from a few years back. 

 

 

 

[Radagast]

7 hours ago, ProfD said:

I give Dexibell props for staying in the game.  I have no idea of how they do it.  I don't know any musicians who own a Dexibell KB. 😎

I have a P7.  Russell Ferrante plays Dexibell.

[niacin]

On this forum @AnotherScott has one of the pianos, i have an SX7, i think there are a few others, but yeh presumably more popular in Europe.

[Al Quinn]

I have an SX7 and love the acoustic pianos!

[Radagast]

I wonder if Roland regrets their decision, that led to the birth of Dexibell?

[The Piano Man]

External power supplies on all models including those over £2000. Very pricey for what you get. Very odd colour scheme too. Cannot see the appeal at all. 
 

When you compare to Yamaha CP or Korg SV line, I cannot see why you would pick Dexibell.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, The Piano Man said:

When you compare to Yamaha CP or Korg SV line, I cannot see why you would pick Dexibell.

 

From what I can tell just from what little info is there so far, possible advantages over either of those would be tonewheel organ engine, 3.2 GB of user-definable memory (your preferred combination of sounds from Dexibell's sound library or soundfonts or your own samples), more split/layer capability. Also MIDI zones, pitch/mod wheels, and USB audio interface which the CP has but the SV does not; and a model with speakers which the SV has but the CP does not. But not all the dedicated real time effects controls of the CP or SV. 

[ElmerJFudd]

I Imagine they have carved out a big enough % of the market to keep things running. I don’t know how many units they build and sell per year or how large their staff is. 
 

The high polyphony their hardware is capable of can be a blessing, especially with acoustic piano sounds and splits/layers.  And the high sample rate I suspect is pleasant with headphones, when recording and intimate settings with ideal monitoring.  
 

So, more than a few well thought out features to steel a few people away for a generation of instruments or more. Like a bunch of  others they don’t design or build their own actions so nothing of note there. I’d pick up their module if it were more aggressively priced. 

[Morrissey]

I'm happy with my S3. Solid option for 73 weighted keys, and used ones tend to be good value relative to Yamaha, Korg, etc competitors 

[Delaware Dave]

Two times I've tried to like them but walked away.  Maybe the 3rd time will be a charm, but I doubt it.

[MathOfInsects]

Laying hands on the Dexibells at NAMM was eye-opening for me. They are serious boards with beautiful action, sounds, and design. I think they are headed toward a NS-style do-everything board, and I don't think the interface is there yet. But as soon as they get there, I'll be looking at them as a serious contender. 

[ElmerJFudd]

34 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Russell's demo (it is a SX7?) certainly sounds very nice!    My only comment is that he appears to be playing with a very light touch, yet the piano attack sounds pretty aggressive.   Probably the intent of the demo?

 

I listened to the technical presentation and it sounds like their benefit is some proprietary combination of modeling+sampling, higher depth/rate/length samples along with lack of polyphony limitations.    They clearly know what they are doing and it appears that they are concentrating on the known limitations of AP reproduction.

 

It kind of begs the question.....   If people know and understand what the limitations are of ideal AP reproduction, why would they not generate a prototype that is 10X more costly than people could pay to create a baseline, or existence proof like happened in the early days of music synthesis?   You don't see Yamaha (or anyone else) creating a "gold standard" unobtainable prototype like they did with the GS1,  CS80,  GX1 anymore.  

 

It's probably because we are at the asymptote of performance, and real audio performance gains aren't worth the large delta in price that exceed the Moore's law rate we get for free via computer roadmaps.

 

 

I think Yamaha and Korg consider their Avant Grande the pinnacle of their digitized piano.  And it makes sense as far as actions and internal amplification.  Neither went with pure software modeling for the base piano engine, although Roland did with V-Piano.  That’s about where we are at in virtual

pianos until the next significant jump (which has always been gradual really).  

[jazzpiano88]

13 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I think Yamaha and Korg consider their Avant Grande the pinnacle of their digitized piano.  And it makes sense as far as actions and internal amplification.  Neither went with pure software modeling for the base piano engine, although Roland did with V-Piano.  

 

That may be, but it would be nice to be revealed through some sort of marketing argument.

 

E.g.  Yamaha knows how to reproduce AP nearly perfectly.    The problem is they can't do it with a slab and unbalanced audio outs.    They need an integrated amplification system to do it.

 

So, their performance tiers are: 

 3. Professional Recording Artists using their top of the line synths (Motif/Montage/CP)

 2. Home/Church pianists who use AG. (they don't have the space for an AP)

 1. Pros who only play APs (CX, CF)

 

This makes absolutely no sense to me, esp #2.

 

 

[zephonic]

I just think they should change their name. It’s a bit of a deterrent to me.

[ElmerJFudd]

46 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

That may be, but it would be nice to be revealed through some sort of marketing argument.

 

E.g.  Yamaha knows how to reproduce AP nearly perfectly.    The problem is they can't do it with a slab and unbalanced audio outs.    They need an integrated amplification system to do it.

 

So, their performance tiers are: 

 3. Professional Recording Artists using their top of the line synths (Motif/Montage/CP)

 2. Home/Church pianists who use AG. (they don't have the space for an AP)

 1. Pros who only play APs (CX, CF)

 

This makes absolutely no sense to me, esp #2.

 

 

Yamaha as the example - Montage and Genos (top tier workstation and arranger) get their best most recent sound engines in a slab. That trickles down to CP/YC (stage pianos) and MODX (workstation lite).  They used to also have S90 - cross between CP and MODX but seem to have ditched that line.  

[The Piano Man]

13 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

From what I can tell just from what little info is there so far, possible advantages over either of those would be tonewheel organ engine, 3.2 GB of user-definable memory (your preferred combination of sounds from Dexibell's sound library or soundfonts or your own samples), more split/layer capability. Also MIDI zones, pitch/mod wheels, and USB audio interface which the CP has but the SV does not; and a model with speakers which the SV has but the CP does not. But not all the dedicated real time effects controls of the CP or SV. 

I would just get a Nautilus if these features were my key requirements. And if I really needed inbuilt speakers, I’d probably get an RD88.

 

I do wish Dexibell well. If they put out a sleek all black model with internal power supply (C14) and a reasonable price, I could certainly consider checking it out.
 

YMMV 

[ElmerJFudd]

I think it’s up to Yamaha and the others to offer as detailed a sampled piano as we get in some of the best software virtual pianos installed on their instruments.
 

The AG + Garritan CFX for example sounds very good recorded! Do any of the digital piano makers currently offer 133gb of samples with every detail of a single  instrument, recorded with different mix perspectives, pedal sounds, string and damper resonance, etc? 
 

Would a Yamaha CP-type instrument loaded with a 160gb library on par with Spectrasonic’s Keyscape sell well?  I think it would.  

[AnotherScott]

17 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

I would just get a Nautilus if these features were my key requirements.

There are always trade-offs, and different buyers will want to make different ones. Sure, the Nautilus will do all those things, and many more. But it will also be over 50 lbs as an 88 (vs. under 40), and non-hammer in a 7x, and it will generally be more complicated to do that subset of things that the Dexibell does too.

 

17 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

And if I really needed inbuilt speakers, I’d probably get an RD88.

Again, different trade-offs for different buyers. Dexibell has more flexible splits/layers, 5-pin MIDI In, 35 w/ch speaker system vs. 6 w/ch (watts don't tell you everything, but you're much more likely to be able to pull off a solo/duo piano gig with the Dexibell's speakers than the Roland's), custom sample/soundfont loading, tonewheel organ engine, probably better interface. 

 

Boards don't have to appeal to everyone... it's good to have a selection of different feature sets for people with different priorities.

[A Stranger Chronicle]

Amazing how Bonner’s can have anything on the S8 when even Dexibel aren’t yet displaying it…?!

 

https://www.dexibell.com/product-category/stage-module-en/?lang=en

[Analogaddict]

I have an S9 and a module. They don’t do everything but combined with MainStage or a module like the Integra it’s a powerhouse. The acoustic pianos sound great in a PA. 

[Delaware Dave]

22 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Yamaha knows how to reproduce AP nearly perfectly.

 

 

Not to get off-topic but the Roland V Piano is the best I've ever heard although I could not afford nor drag around its 82 pounds....

[ElmerJFudd]

Thomann seems to have stock of the S10L and are expecting the S10 soon. 
 

 

Sweetwater says an S10L is $3,499.99 in the US.  The S10,  $3,999.99. That’s a lot of scratch.  Roland Fantom pricing. 

[Radagast]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:39 PM, zephonic said:

I just think they should change their name. It’s a bit of a deterrent to me.

What’s in a name?  A rose by any other name…

 

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Thomann seems to have stock of the S10L and are expecting the S10 soon. 
 

 

Sweetwater says an S10L is $3,499.99 in the US.  The S10,  $3,999.99. That’s a lot of scratch.  Roland Fantom pricing. 

But we’re talking about the S8 not the S10.

[ElmerJFudd]

59 minutes ago, Radagast said:

What’s in a name?  A rose by any other name…

 

But we’re talking about the S8 not the S10.

Pffft, S8.  I moved on from that a few seasons back.  S10 is all that’s on the brain.  😉

[vonnor]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:09 PM, avon said:

Bonners UK have pages with specs (possibly incomplete) for the new Dexibell S8 and S8M and S4. No pics yet. Not on Dexibell site yet (21st July).

The 88 key S8/S8M uses Fatar TP40GH keys. (Same as Kurzweil K2700 TP40L keys but Graded Hammer weighted. The TP40L is good but suffers from a bit of bounce on release – is underdamped). Hopefully the TP40GH version is better, though not likely as good as the TP400W on the S10 or Numa X GT.

The S8M looks like S8 but has speakers.

The S4 has 73 keys of type TP100. Strange these not the newer TP110 as used in Numa X 88/73 (maybe Fatar keeps the TP110 just for their Numa X offshoot!)

Links:

Dexibell S8

Dexibell S8M

Dexibell S4

Links fixed in the quote.

 

Also, Muziker.com has pix.

 

~ vonnor

[jazzpiano88]

On 7/23/2023 at 5:28 PM, Delaware Dave said:

On 7/22/2023 at 6:29 PM, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Yamaha knows how to reproduce AP nearly perfectly.

 

Not to get off-topic but the Roland V Piano is the best I've ever heard although I could not afford nor drag around its 82 pounds....

 

Just to be clear, my comment above was part of a hypothetical marketing argument that I thought Yamaha could reveal to us if it exists, not a statement of fact.

Full Quote:

 

    ...it would be nice to be revealed through some sort of marketing argument.

 

     E.g.  Yamaha knows how to reproduce AP nearly perfectly.    The problem is they can't do it with a slab and unbalanced audio outs.   

     They need an integrated amplification system to do it.

 

 

[Radagast]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:29 PM, JazzPiano88 said:

 

 

 

E.g.  Yamaha knows how to reproduce AP nearly perfectly.    The problem is they can't do it with a slab and unbalanced audio outs.    They need an integrated amplification system to do it.

 

 

 

Maybe they do.  Maybe they’re not the only one.  But Yamaha is only going to put Yamaha, Bosendorfer, and maybe one other brand’s piano sounds in their digital pianos.  I’d like to see a no hold’s barred hardware piano with the best amplification featuring Pianoteq’s pianos.

[jazzpiano88]

On 7/22/2023 at 1:51 AM, Radagast said:

I wonder if Roland regrets their decision, that led to the birth of Dexibell?

What was the story on that? From what I can piece together, they shut down an Italy subsidiary and those people started Dexibell?   I didn’t realize they had technical development going on there, or maybe the sales/marketing people had enough technical Know-how to hire and direct engineers to fulfill their vision.