Korg Grandstage 73 or Yamaha Cp88?

[Paul Woodward]

Not sure if i need advice or simply someone talking some sense in to me. Quick background…move to Thailand four years ago, sold my Yamaha CP4 before I left. Loved it. Came back last year and eyed up a CP88, but grabbed a very reasonable priced mint condition Korg GS73 which I really like.

Bought loads of gear to gig this year (including a Yamaha YC61) before ditching the idea and sold it all, keeping just the GS with the idea that i could still do the odd jam with that board.

Now a Yamaha CP88 has come up locally at a good price (£1150 with the official soft case). I am using the Korg as a controller for my DAW and for practice, but Im wondering if the CP would be a better board for playing at home and it has a few extra features that ‘might’ be useful down the line (audio line in, USB interface).

I have heard the organs on the CP are terrible and it only has around 120 sounds. The Korg has decent sounds and over 550 of them taken from Kronos.

I haven’t seen a GS on sale for ages and they were going for some silly prices (one on eBay is over £4k!!). I would be happy if I could get enough to cover the CP88 cost to be fair.

 

So, long story short, is it worth an upgrade from GS73 to CP88 if they were about the same value? 

 

For the record I really like the RH3 keybed and haven’t had chance to try the CP88 keybed but the seller is willing to bring it over to my house as he wants to try the SL88 I am selling so no real harm in trying it, but don’t want to waste his time on a promise I might take the CP…

[M_G]

I went from Grandstage 73 to Yamaha CP88 about 4 years ago.

Never looked back.

Much better keybed (my taste) and better sounds (my taste)...

 

Check it out !

[Adan]

If you were gigging with it, the Korg might have some advantages in portability.  For playing at home, the much better action on the CP88 would be a clear winner.  But you say you like the RH3 action, so I guess it depends whether you want to throw money at a better action if you're satisfied with what you've got.

 

I thought the Grandstage had some cool funky features, like the dynamics knob or being able to flip a split with the touch of a button.  

[stoken6]

Do you foresee needing to take the board out for occasional gigs?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

but don’t want to waste his time on a promise I might take the CP…

 

Is him bringing the CP predicated on you probably buying it? If not, it sounds like a very nice and mutually beneficial opportunity y'all have where you can both sample a board you're interested in without going the route we almost all have to do now: buy an instrument online, check it out, return it if we don't like it, repeat.

 

So if there's no strings attached to both of you demo'ing each other's gear for sale, why not wait to ask the question of which you prefer until after you get to try it?

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

the seller is willing to bring it over to my house as he wants to try the SL88 I am selling so no real harm in trying it, but don’t want to waste his time on a promise I might take the CP

 

5 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

So if there's no strings attached to both of you demo'ing each other's gear for sale, why not wait to ask the question of which you prefer until after you get to try it?

I would be straight with the other guy: "I'd be really grateful if you bring the CP, but please understand that I might not like it - just as you might not like my SL88"

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Do you foresee needing to take the board out for occasional gigs?

 

Cheers, Mike.

I am still open to the idea of the occasional gig, I just didn't want to keep a full set up on the off chance so its has all gone. 

[Paul Woodward]

7 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

Is him bringing the CP predicated on you probably buying it? If not, it sounds like a very nice and mutually beneficial opportunity y'all have where you can both sample a board you're interested in without going the route we almost all have to do now: buy an instrument online, check it out, return it if we don't like it, repeat.

 

So if there's no strings attached to both of you demo'ing each other's gear for sale, why not wait to ask the question of which you prefer until after you get to try it?

He wants £1150 cash with the official case. He is coming to try my SL88 as he wants to try a lighter board and, if it works out for him, I pay him £950. As you say, mutually beneficial as long as the CP88 is an ‘upgrade’ from my GS. Im just one of those old fashioned people who would feel bad if he bought it over and I didnt want to do a deal. Im hoping a play on the CP might help the decision so I see your point. Thanks

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, Adan said:

If you were gigging with it, the Korg might have some advantages in portability.  For playing at home, the much better action on the CP88 would be a clear winner.  But you say you like the RH3 action, so I guess it depends whether you want to throw money at a better action if you're satisfied with what you've got.

 

I thought the Grandstage had some cool funky features, like the dynamics knob or being able to flip a split with the touch of a button.  

 I really like the GS and had no intentions of upgrading, but this seems like a good deal and I like the idea of three engines, the extra octave, wooden(ish) keys and the connectivity. Plus the chance of future upgrades which wont happen with the GS now.

1 hour ago, M_G said:

I went from Grandstage 73 to Yamaha CP88 about 4 years ago.

Never looked back.

Much better keybed (my taste) and better sounds (my taste)...

 

Check it out !

Can I ask (really cheeky) if you got a good price for the GS. I can’t believe someone is asking over £4k for the 88 note version on the ‘bay….

Did you actually like the RH3 keybed and is the CP keybed that good? Did you ever miss the wider range of sounds? Strings and some of the synths on the GS are quite impressive. Saying that, I did like the YC so im half way there.

[AnotherScott]

I prefer the CP88 action to the RH3 action overall, though I wish they hadn't graded it quite so much... the lower keys get too heavy for my taste. Still a very nice action, though.

[CHarrell]

12 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I prefer the CP88 action to the RH3 action overall, though I wish they hadn't graded it quite so much... the lower keys get too heavy for my taste. Still a very nice action, though.

 

I agree 100%.

[Paul Woodward]

11 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

I agree 100%.

Just read through your Cp4 thread. Its been too long now to recall exactly how it played, but it was very satisfying. When people talk about ‘not being able to walk past without having a play’ I got that with the CP4. If the CP88 is the same it might be a winner.

[Paul Woodward]

Well that was strange. The guy came, we chatted and had a coffee. Great to meet a fellow musician and watch them play on your boards.

 

But…it just felt wrong. From the size of the thing in the case and the weight as he handed it over…then I sat down and played it. Great ‘cosmetic’ condition, but one of the dials seemed to be ‘leaning’ to the right noticably, a few others not quite centre (I am picky about stuff). I asked and he seemed surprised. Genuinely nice guy who uses this for practice. Has a few Nords and a Hammond board for gigging. Certainly the case has never left the house, the CP, not so sure.

He played the SL88 but, understandably after the CP, he was a bit meh. He would have taken it in PX, but that was just to get a sale really. He wasnt relly interested beyond that.

Then I played the CP and I dont know why, but instant disconnect. As I did a glissando up the board, the volume/response seemed off in a few notes in the top octave. He looked puzzled, thought it might be the sample. Not sure but I just didnt enjoy the experience and that’s what it it all about. Admittedly I might have dug in a but more if I had it for a bit longer.

So, we shook hands and he decided be might just keep it and I decided that, for my needs, the Korg GS was ideal (and he agreed) so no money or gear was exchanged and two musicians went happily about their business. Im not saying it wasn’t a nice keybed, but I didnt feel compelled to part with an 88 note weighted controller and a grand of my hard earnt cash to play it more. I was playing the GS this morning, and the SL…I enjoyed both of them more as I have them set up just as I like them.

 

I also know that this isnt the board for me either so I can stop looking.

 

Thanks for all the advice, nothing quite as personal as an instrument for a musician I guess. What is really strange is I have always had Yamaha pianos and Korg synths. When I owned a Kronos 1st gen with the RH3, I really didnt like it. Something about the GS that I just gel with and its small/light enough to throw in the car for a jam too.

All good, but thanks again, your advice was very useful.

[drawback]

I’ve had that similar disconnect with the CP88 on the retail floor, and not just once. And it’s strange that I couldn’t stand the RH3 on the original SV1 but fell in love with it on a GrandStage, which led me directly to a Kronos.

[ProfD]

55 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Thanks for all the advice, nothing quite as personal as an instrument for a musician I guess. What is really strange is I have always had Yamaha pianos and Korg synths. When I owned a Kronos 1st gen with the RH3, I really didnt like it.

The KC contingent is here to 1) offer advice and 2) help folks spend their money.😁

 

I also spent many years playing Yamaha KBs (SY99, S80 and Motif ES8). 

 

I couldn't stand Korg KBs after the M1.  The OASYS was interesting albeit overpriced IMO. 

 

When I laid hands on the Korg SV-1, I felt it was the closest thing to a modern day Rhodes on steroids.  I replaced my Motif ES8 with an SV-1.  

 

I eventually replaced the SV-1 with a real Rhodes.  However, I just bought a Korg Nautilus which to me is descended from the Kronos/OASYS.

 

I believe the FTEC (Finger to Ear Connection) is very real for musicians.  When an instruments feels right underneath the fingertips and sounds good to one's ears...it's the *right* one.

 

Reads like the Korg Grandstage has the right FTEC.  No harm in test driving other vehicles, er, KBs.  That's what we do.😎

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, drawback said:

And it’s strange that I couldn’t stand the RH3 on the original SV1 but fell in love with it on a GrandStage, which led me directly to a Kronos.

 

And I really enjoyed playing the RH3 on the original SV1, but couldn't stand the RH3 on the Kronos!

[vonnor]

Can't talk CP88 action (some others have though), but  a while back in Ft. Wayne I played the GS73 for about 5 minutes and was a solid nope. Way too stiff for my taste.

 

~ vonnor

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Reads like the Korg Grandstage has the right FTEC.  No harm in test driving other vehicles, er, KBs.  That's what we do.😎

And that, my friend, pretty much sums it up. I put the GS on the stand after he left, fired it up and spent an hour or so happily playing the piano, EP's, even seeing if I could make 'Jump' and 'Why can this be love' patches, you know, just in case....(I did by the way, and a huge string patch for One Vision).

That reconfirmed that I could take the GS out and do a basic cover gig with it. CP88 would need additional gear, and possibly a roadie as I get on in years. The GS is only a few Kg lighter but that and the smaller keyboard makes a lot of difference 🙂

[ElmerJFudd]

I'm playing the CP88.  Positives are - for a compact action Yamaha has figured out how to make it feel like a grand piano - the key motion is smooth and fast and there is a feeling of weight and momentum.  The dynamic curve is wide, there are both presets and fine tuning parameters for the internal sounds.  The default setting has been tuned well to the CFX sound set.   Negatives - there is no simulation of escapement.  The weighting is just slightly heavier/more effort than the longer keys and more complex mechanisms we find on actual acoustic grands.  Changes to the dynamic curve don't send to MIDI.  

 

I've played the grand stage 88 in the shop many times.  It also has a dynamic curve editing feature, single knob if I recall, which also does not send to MIDI.  I do not believe Korg RH3 simulates escapement either, at least I haven't felt it when playing.   

[Paul Woodward]

22 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

And I really enjoyed playing the RH3 on the original SV1, but couldn't stand the RH3 on the Kronos!

Strange that. I was offered a Kronos 2 73 a while back and simply assumed that it would be a GS on steroids. I didnt need all the workstation extras so I declined to try it, but you would think the same generation RH3 would play the same on any board that used it. 

On a different note I always wondered why Korg discontinued the GS. Someone suggested it was not cost effective with the different engines and the 20gb (expanded to 32Gb) memory for the samples. Others that it took some of the market from potential Kronos owners....

Both discontinued now and, although the Nautilus replaced the Kronos, the SV2 is not really a GS replacement....the mind boggles.

[Paul Woodward]

3 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I'm playing the CP88.  Positives are - for a compact action Yamaha has figured out how to make it feel like a grand piano - the key motion is smooth and fast and there is a feeling of weight and momentum.  The dynamic curve is wide, there are both presets and fine tuning parameters for the internal sounds.  The default setting has been tuned well to the CFX sound set.   Negatives - there is no simulation of escapement.  The weighting is just slightly heavier/more effort than the longer keys and more complex mechanisms we find on actual acoustic grands.  Changes to the dynamic curve don't send to MIDI.  

 

I've played the grand stage 88 in the shop many times.  It also has a dynamic curve editing feature, single knob if I recall, which also does not send to MIDI.  I do not believe Korg RH3 simulates escapement either, at least I haven't felt it when playing.   

No escapement and it has a dynamic knob which, as you say, affects certain aspects of the sound making it punchier/clearer (to the right) or softer and more mellow (to the left). That, and the simple 3 band EQ allow you to make changes on the fly, which is (was) pretty much the USP of the GS.

[ElmerJFudd]

Just now, Paul Woodward said:

Strange that. I was offered a Kronos 2 73 a while back and simply assumed that it would be a GS on steroids. I didnt need all the workstation extras so I declined to try it, but you would think the same generation RH3 would play the same on any board that used it. 

On a different note I always wondered why Korg discontinued the GS. Someone suggested it was not cost effective with the different engines and the 20gb (expanded to 32Gb) memory for the samples. Others that it took some of the market from potential Kronos owners....

Both discontinued now and, although the Nautilus replaced the Kronos, the SV2 is not really a GS replacement....the mind boggles.

I prefer the feeling of playing acoustic pianos on the SV2 over the SV1, but I am certain that has to do with how Korg calibrated the new piano patches for the RH3 vs. any changes they made to the action itself.  

[ElmerJFudd]

2 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

No escapement and it has a dynamic knob which, as you say, affects certain aspects of the sound making it punchier/clearer (to the right) or softer and more mellow (to the left). That, and the simple 3 band EQ allow you to make changes on the fly, which is (was) pretty much the USP of the GS.

CP88 has master EQ on the far right of the user interface at the end of the signal chain.  Hi, sweepable mid, and low with an on/off switch.  

[Paul Woodward]

3 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I prefer the feeling of playing acoustic pianos on the SV2 over the SV1, but I am certain that has to do with how Korg calibrated the new piano patches for the RH3 vs. any changes they made to the action itself.  

I suspect they calibrated for the GS to make it easier to play EP's, organs etc, as well as AP's. I would never have bought a Korg piano, but after using the GS I would seriously consider another RH3 based piano 🙂

 

[stoken6]

5 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I prefer the feeling of playing acoustic pianos on the SV2 over the SV1, but I am certain that has to do with how Korg calibrated the new piano patches for the RH3 vs. any changes they made to the action itself.  

Interesting, I didn't particularly connect with RH3 action in either the SV1 or Grandstage, but that was for AP specifically.

 

I liked the CP88 action very much, but I'm happy with the GHS of the CP73, MODX8 and others, so - as others have mentioned - tastes vary.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Woodward]

I guess it also depends how you play. I can imagine the CP88 might have felt better had I been playing some soft classical piece but I went in blues, RnB, Soul, Rock, little bit of cocktail jazz. All of these feel better on the RH3. As you said, tastes vary or we would all be wearing the same clothes and driving the same car 😉

I also have to factor in familiarity and the fact that I grabbed the GS for an absolute giveaway price despite the fact it was almost brand new. You never know what 'hammer' a used board will have (excuse pun...)

 

[CHarrell]

Glad there was a happy ending, Paul. 🙂 Both of you got a feel for what you like, and only three people got seriously maimed. 

[Paul Woodward]

Happy ending? It wasn't that sort of meeting, nor am I that sort of boy 😉

Seriously though, grass isnt always greener and, given I am not a Nord fan nor Yamaha it would seem, will stick with the Korg at least until something new comes to the market. Last noticeable release (without a pro price tag) was the CK88 and little about that floated my boat either.

As always, lovely to share thoughts and experiences with you guys.

[CHarrell]

1 minute ago, Paul Woodward said:

Happy ending? It wasn't that sort of meeting

 

Wait is that not how instrument trades are usually done? 😳 

[Paul Woodward]

Only in Thailand…