K/B equipment used in the Santana 'US' concert 1982 .....

[Delaware Dave]

I watched this concert on AXS (I think) a couple nights ago.  Ah, the old analog instruments ......  CP70, Roland Jupiter, Hammond and Leslie.  Playing the digital instrument emulations of these instruments it became evident that the old analog instruments have a thickness in tone that the digital emulations fail to replicate.  I can understand why professionals who have roadies to move the heavy analog equipment still use those instruments.  I also realized that this digital transformation appears to be less so with guitar players whose guitars are still the guitars they used 40 years ago as well as the amps; the amps might be newer but they are still tube-based and sound closer to the vintage guitar amps than the digital amps keyboardists use today as compared to my old analog amp rig.

[ProfD]

Yep. Sampling and modeling has gotten better over the decades. 

 

Still, the best way to enjoy digital instruments is to avoid playing the electromechanical or analog instruments they are emulating.😁

 

Otherwise, digital facsimile sounds are fine for the convenience they bring to gigs and recording sessions.😎

[JamPro]

Of course, 99% of keyboard players are NOT playing international tours with a crew to build the stage.  Faced with the alternative of moving a 200+ kg Hammond myself or using a 15 kg digital emulation of a Hammond that is reliable without needing oil, includes a Leslie effect, EQ, reverb, and the ability to play other sounds over Midi, I will use the digital emulation every time.  Regardless of what negative things purists have to say about the tone.

 

I have a Motion Sound Pro 145, and in a room the Leslie effect is literally head-spinningly gorgeous.  But when I hear a real Leslie on a stage, what I am hearing is a mic'ed speaker played thru a stage sound system (which may not even be stereo).  All that head-spinning glory is lost in working to amplify the sound in a hall.

 

Keep well in mind that that 1980s video has been remixed for digital audio, and is being played back via an mp3 or your TV sound system.  I suggest any tone comparisons with modern keyboards should be viewed as suspect at best.

[Tusker]

What a great band. The percussionists create so much energy!

 

I agree with a lot of the digital / analog stereotypes. Particularly when dealing with an exposed CP70, Rhodes, B3, Memorymoog etc. However, some of these stereotypes are a function of processing as was mentioned. So for convenience I use the Pianoteq modeled CP80 instead of a CP70. I've played a CP70 and I know it very well. But I played the Pianoteq in a Genesis / Phil Collins tribute with no shame. The Pianoteq sounds nothing like the really thing when you first pull it up. It's way too bright and tinny and perfect. But ...

 

- maybe you roll off the highs a bit, because some of those old stage pianos had worn out hammers at the end of a tour

- you do some per-note detuning because they weren't always perfectly regulated

- you decrease the velocity sensitivity so that you are forced to dig for tone as in the real thing

- maybe simulating the amplification chain will give you a mid/low boost, a high frequency cut, a bit of noise and a bit of compression

- if they were using those Roland chorus pedals, you can use a chorus plugin but don't forget to roll off the highs even more. 😅

- add a tiny bit of room ambience (early reflections, no tail) to locate the sound in a "real" space

- if it was originally recorded on tape, add a tape sim to blur those accurate transients some more

 

and it begins to sound really accurate. And alive. And thick. The tone comes through in those imperfections.

[Delaware Dave]

1 hour ago, JamPro said:

Keep well in mind that that 1980s video has been remixed for digital audio, and is being played back via an mp3 or your TV sound system.  I suggest any tone comparisons with modern keyboards should be viewed as suspect at best.

 

Even being digitally remixed and compressed for TV they sound thicker than the digital instruments of today.

[Motif88]

I saw Santana for the Marathon album tour in NY. Incredible lineup. Alan Pasqua along with Alex Ligertwood of David Sancious & Tone fame. I remember be enamored by Alan Pasqua playing the lead line to Aquamarine on an Arp Odyssey with PPC. Am I showing my age again?

[Baldwin Funster]

In that video you're not hearing a Jupiter and all the other stuff. You're hearing a post processed sound with the sound of 10,000s of watts of venue amplification probably blended in the mix. The low end probably was boosted with board EQ and also reinforced by the bass guitar. One thing you can bet is that you're not just hearing the analog synth coming from the line out of the Jupiter. 

 

In the guitar world people ask what amp and guitar will get them the Led Zeppelin at Madison Square Garden sound. 

That's the sound of a mixed concert recording of a mixed concert. That's alot of factors that have nothing to do with the guitar and amp.

 

But yeah the old stuff sound better.

[CEB]

I used to think that about electro mechanicals,  but I’m not sure anymore.   The sound may be more a result of the analog gain stages than the instruments. You can replicate an analog gain stage.  My rig in the 90s was killer but that was due to the ridiculous stage amplification.   I love the sound of my current rig through great FOH. 
 

“Volume is tone”- Edward Van Halen. 

[Outkaster]

I don't know once I get behind my Hammond B3 console just the presence and the sound is something else.

[RABid]

What I do not miss is spending hours every Sunday tuning my MemoryMoog and other analogs to get them ready for another week of gigging. I learned really fast that I could not skip a week. I don’t think the audience noticed when I switched to a DX-7.

 

If someone asks me how I want my drums to sound, my first response is to refer them to the Santana 1 (lion head) or Santana Welcome album. It seems like Santana always had someone to could dial in a great sound.