WATCH OUT! Do not update to iOS or iPadOS 16.5 if you use the USB 3 Camera Adapter

[Baldwin Funster]

I don't update anything until something stops working and I'm forced at digital gunpoint. Yes sometimes I'm pleased by new functionality after an unwanted update. But I still don't like change or being forced into it. I don't plan to update from iOS 13 to iOS 16.? anytime soon. 

[analogika]

15 hours ago, Tripp323 said:

Hi all - thanks for your comments about using iPad for music/midi and the heads up about upgrades.

Question:

  I use an old iPad Air (3rd gen) because it has the headphone/audio output that I run to a PA.

  A USB keyboard is input to the iPad using the camera adapter.  I use the NeoSoul keys a lot.

  I have a powered USB hub, but I’ve been using a dedicated power supply to keyboard.

 

1) With this setup I hear no delay (latency) in hearing sound as I play keyboard.

In other setups using Bluetooth to a speaker, I did experience sound delay to the speakers.

Q: Do you use WiFi or Bluetooth in your rig, or do you have an audio output from your iPad direct to speakers/PA?

 

2) During sets, I unplug the USB from the Powered USB hub to the iPad camera adapter because I get clicking noise unless unplugged.

This does not seem to depend on using USB to power a keyboard, or when I use the keyboard’s power.  The noise comes from the USB power.  (Since the iPad battery lasts pretty well - I don’t charge it when I’m playing/connected to speakers.)  Let us know if you have any tricks to isolate your audio signals from power source noise?  Thanks!

Bluetooth audio is not designed for live use, and it is unusable for that purpose. Latency varies day-by-day and with the equipment and codecs used, and lies in the tens of milliseconds AT BEST, and typically in the hundreds of milliseconds. 
 

Bluetooth is only really usable in a musical context for MIDI, where data is measured in individual bytes, or for switching patches from a set list app on your smart device or so. 
 

As for USB power causing noise issues: I’d suggest trying a different hub or a different power supply. 

[Baggypants]

9 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

I don't update anything until something stops working and I'm forced at digital gunpoint. Yes sometimes I'm pleased by new functionality after an unwanted update. But I still don't like change or being forced into it. I don't plan to update from iOS 13 to iOS 16.? anytime soon. 

 

Change is happening around you though. Specifically, in this case, security vulnerabilities. Now, you may have a plan such as not connecting it to the internet, not browsing any websites, or deliberatly not storing sensitive information on the device. I don't know. But broadly it's a bad idea for the majority of people who use their iPad as designed, and should be pointed out as such.

[cassdad]

For reference, I updated to 16.5 today, and my “USB C camera adapter” and all programs (including forScore) work properly:  I have an iPad Pro 5th generation, with one USB C output (it’s not “lightning”).

[Reezekeys]

4 hours ago, cassdad said:

For reference, I updated to 16.5 today, and my “USB C camera adapter” and all programs (including forScore) work properly:  I have an iPad Pro 5th generation, with one USB C output (it’s not “lightning”).

 

The issue is with the USB-C Lightning adapter.

[cassdad]

Yes, Reezekeys, that is why I specifically wrote “(it’s not “lightning”)”.  Having the USB C connector, the original post begged the question whether or not it affected other than “lightning” - thus the reason for my post.

15 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

The issue is with the USB-C Lightning adapter.

 

[Reezekeys]

Gotcha! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Baggypants]

My lightening cck is working fine after the 16.5 update

 

Edit: ignore me I'm a chump and I forgot what the issue was. It suffers from the same power issue as reported. If the attached usb device is powered itself the adaptor works but you can't charge.

[sam6599643]

Sounds like a new iphone is about to be launched…….a new one it just so happens to have a USB-C port now as mandated by Eu regulations….and just “unfortunate” that this Apple firmware update breaks functionality of millions of otherwise perfectly functioning devices.

[analogika]

18 hours ago, sam6599643 said:

Sounds like a new iphone is about to be launched…….a new one it just so happens to have a USB-C port now as mandated by Eu regulations….and just “unfortunate” that this Apple firmware update breaks functionality of millions of otherwise perfectly functioning devices.

Apart from the underlying assumption that Apple are by nature just collossal assholes (which I find weird), how on Earth can a reasoning man argue that a company intentionally pushed a firmware upgrade that, for millions of customers, breaks functionality of a product THEY’RE STILL SHIPPING??? 
 

Really? 
 

It’s also not a particularly well-kept secret that a) new iPhones have been announced/shipped in September every year for well over a decade, and b) the 2023 or 2024 iPhones at the latest MUST come with USB-C if they are to be sold at all in Apple’s second-largest market. 

[Baggypants]

21 hours ago, analogika said:

how on Earth can a reasoning man argue that a company intentionally pushed a firmware upgrade that, for millions of customers, breaks functionality of a product THEY’RE STILL SHIPPING??? 

 

You just need to get a little creative with your paranoia. IOS 17 is around the corner. Probably that will include a fix for the lightening-cck-power bug. BUT, will it be available for all devices currently runing 16? Rumours that 5th gen iPads and 1st gen iPad Pros wont make the cut are already around. This way Apple can tell the world the bug has been fixed, but still drive existing users to upgrade their device due to reduced functionality.

[analogika]

1 hour ago, Baggypants said:

 

You just need to get a little creative with your paranoia. IOS 17 is around the corner. Probably that will include a fix for the lightening-cck-power bug. BUT, will it be available for all devices currently runing 16? Rumours that 5th gen iPads and 1st gen iPad Pros wont make the cut are already around. This way Apple can tell the world the bug has been fixed, but still drive existing users to upgrade their device due to reduced functionality.

 

I seriously doubt they'll leave users in the lurch until September/October. 

As for what will make the cut, no need for "rumours". 
Apple showed previews yesterday and has officially listed compatibility:
 

iOS 17 is compatible with these devices.

iPhone 14

iPhone 14 Plus

iPhone 14 Pro

iPhone 14 Pro Max

iPhone 13

iPhone 13 mini

iPhone 13 Pro

iPhone 13 Pro Max

iPhone 12

iPhone 12 mini

iPhone 12 Pro

iPhone 12 Pro Max

iPhone 11

iPhone 11 Pro

iPhone 11 Pro Max

iPhone XS

iPhone XS Max

iPhone XR

iPhone SE
(2nd generation or later)

 

iPadOS 17 is compatible with these devices.

iPad Pro (2nd generation and later)

iPad Air (3rd generation and later)

iPad (6th generation and later)

iPad mini (5th generation and later)

[Reezekeys]

Here I go sounding like an Apple apologist (again!) but... how often does a major (i.e., non-dot) update leave some older devices behind? The answer wouldn't happen to be almost every time, would it?

[analogika]

15 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Here I go sounding like an Apple apologist (again!) but... how often does a major (i.e., non-dot) update leave some older devices behind? The answer wouldn't happen to be almost every time, would it?

That's not the issue here. 

 

The issue is that a point update appears to have disabled perfectly functional first-party accessories for some users. 

[analogika]

Just now, Baggypants said:

That was my point.

 

But the issue here is not iOS 17 — it's iOS 16.5. 

And it's not about an iOS update no longer supporting devices, it's about one particular accessory no longer working. One that Apple is still selling and still lists as "compatible". 

[Baggypants]

7 minutes ago, analogika said:

 

But the issue here is not iOS 17 — it's iOS 16.5. 

And it's not about an iOS update no longer supporting devices, it's about one particular accessory no longer working. One that Apple is still selling and still lists as "compatible". 

Sorry, I was replying to ReezeKeys. It's expected that a major point release would drop support for older hardware. Thanks for the compatibility list though!

[Reezekeys]

45 minutes ago, analogika said:

That's not the issue here. 

 

The issue is that a point update appears to have disabled perfectly functional first-party accessories for some users. 

 

I was reacting to Baggypants saying:

 

2 hours ago, Baggypants said:

Rumours that 5th gen iPads and 1st gen iPad Pros wont make the cut are already around. This way Apple can tell the world the bug has been fixed, but still drive existing users to upgrade their device due to reduced functionality.

 

... but he was replying to me!

 

34 minutes ago, Baggypants said:

Sorry, I was replying to ReezeKeys. It's expected that a major point release would drop support for older hardware.

 

At this point I'm just gonna take an aspirin! 🙂 

 

BTW... I have often seen point updates (mostly security updates) to OS versions older than the current version. Definitely on the Mac, not sure about iOS. I would be very surprised if Apple forces an update to a new (non-point) OS version to fix a bug with a previous version. There are most likely a lot of users still on iOS 16 that need that CCK and don't want to upgrade right away. Let's see what happens.

[ABECK]

On 6/1/2023 at 4:58 AM, Baggypants said:

My lightening cck is working fine after the 16.5 update

 

 

Edit: ignore me I'm a chump and I forgot what the issue was. It suffers from the same power issue as reported. If the attached usb device is powered itself the adaptor works but you can't charge.

Trying to understand the scope of this issue here....I use an iPad 9 with the CCK to so I can send MIDI signals from my keyboard (which has it's own power plug) to the iPad and at the same time, audio from the iPad back to the keyboard.  In this setup, do I need to worry if I update the iPad?  

[tnelson]

Beta-testers report that iOS 16.6 fixes this bug.  Not sure about date of official release, though

[Baggypants]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

I would be very surprised if Apple forces an update to a new (non-point) OS version to fix a bug with a previous version.

I wouldn't. This is the same company that released the butterfly keyboard, allegedly underclocked iphones to preserve battery life and released a ludicrously priced monitor stand. Who knows what executive might decide is a 'good' idea.

[Baggypants]

44 minutes ago, ABECK said:

Trying to understand the scope of this issue here....I use an iPad 9 with the CCK to so I can send MIDI signals from my keyboard (which has it's own power plug) to the iPad and at the same time, audio from the iPad back to the keyboard.  In this setup, do I need to worry if I update the iPad?  

The data port is unaffected. The power port is busted.

[analogika]

3 hours ago, Baggypants said:

I wouldn't. This is the same company that released the butterfly keyboard, allegedly underclocked iphones to preserve battery life and released a ludicrously priced monitor stand. Who knows what executive might decide is a 'good' idea.

 

Hold your horses there. If you believe that, I'm not surprised at your assessment of the situation. 

 

a) The Butterfly keyboard is my favourite keyboard to date, bar none. 35 years of computing. I'm on a 14" M2 Pro now, and this keyboard is great, but it's got nothing on the firm clackiness of the butterfly. I still miss it. 

 

b) They did not "allegedly underclock iphones to preserve battery life" — that's just an oft-repeated misrepresentation: a simple lie. 

They routinely downclock iPhones WITH DETERIORATED BATTERIES under load — not to "preserve battery life", but to prevent them from just powering off without warning due to battery defects, causing loss of data. 

The only problem was that they did not communicate this, because they figured that opting for a default of "slightly slower at peak load" vs. "random, catastrophic sudden loss of power" when your battery has deteriorated to the point of needing to be replaced, is the only fucking sensible option. 

[Paul Woodward]

Loaded up IPadOS 17 last night so will see if this is fixed on an iPad 9. I realise that won’t help the current situation, but will at least show there is a fix…if it is fixed.

[analogika]

5 hours ago, Baggypants said:

Sorry, I was replying to ReezeKeys. It's expected that a major point release would drop support for older hardware. Thanks for the compatibility list though!

 

Sorry for the mix-up! 

 

There are "major releases" (iOS 7, iOS 8, iOS 13, iOS 17), and "point-releases" (iOS 16.4, iOS 15.7.1). 

You might say that "16.5" constitutes a "major point release" as opposed to a "minor point release" like 15.7.1, but in that nomenclature, no "major point release" has EVER orphaned hardware in iOS/iPad/Apple Watch/Apple TV history. 

[analogika]

4 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

BTW... I have often seen point updates (mostly security updates) to OS versions older than the current version. Definitely on the Mac, not sure about iOS. I would be very surprised if Apple forces an update to a new (non-point) OS version to fix a bug with a previous version. There are most likely a lot of users still on iOS 16 that need that CCK and don't want to upgrade right away. Let's see what happens.

 

Two weeks ago, Apple pushed a security update (iOS 15.7.6) to the iPhone 6S, which puts its total software support at SEVEN YEARS and seven months since release, and four years & eight months since it went out of production. 

"Forced obsolescence"… yah right. 

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, analogika said:

Two weeks ago, Apple pushed a security update (iOS 15.7.6) to the iPhone 6S, which puts its total software support at SEVEN YEARS and seven months since release, and four years & eight months since it went out of production. 

"Forced obsolescence"… yah right. 

I'm not a "pledge blind allegiance" Apple fanboi, but I'm glad that this kind of supported lifetime makes it as economic to purchase a 3-year old iPhone and run it for 3 years, as it does to purchase a new entry-level Android for the same money and run that for 3years. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Woodward]

Well, I tried this using a USB socket on my wall and it said ‘not charging’. Unplugged and put it back in and it shows charging.

Put the official charger in and it’s happily charging. So, somewhere between 16.5 and 17 they fixed it.

[erik_nie]

On 6/7/2023 at 7:57 PM, Paul Woodward said:

Well, I tried this using a USB socket on my wall and it said ‘not charging’. Unplugged and put it back in and it shows charging.

Put the official charger in and it’s happily charging. So, somewhere between 16.5 and 17 they fixed it.

 

The problem is about giving power to the attached devices. Not the charging of the iOS device itself via the camera Kit

I have a cheap Chinese audio interface that connects via USB. I use this for several reasons:

- it sound really nice

- only one connection to my iPad (Camera connection kit with USB HUB with my two synths for sending Program changes and the Audio interface) 

- The Synth via USB add digital noise to the Audio out of the iPad, almost none with the USB Audio interface

 
I tested this with my iPad with 16.4 software and it works great. Added my iPhone with latest iOS and the iPhone charges and the Program changes still works, the Audio does not.
So there is an issue with the power to the attached devices after the iOS update!

I hope that someone with the latest Beta of 16.6 is able to do this test. If 16.6 is available I will test it with my iPhone and then take the risk to update my iPad.

16.6 is expected to be released this month.

 

[analogika]

This issue has been fixed in iOS 16.6 beta 2.

[Baldwin Funster]

Yeah well....I'm still mad. Cmon Apple, you couldn't stick even ONE usb port on your IPad? 

Greed.