Wanted: A Keyboard with integrated “Computer” for loading whatever sounds I want to buy

[cassdad]

I’d simply love a keyboard (with my preferred number of keys and weighting) that has some type of built-in / integrated computer that, like a separate laptop, I could load-up with various sound-producers’ sounds (like Pianoteq, Mainstage, etc).  I do not want to have to carry a separate laptop and the associated wiring.  It would all be integrated and controlled from the one keyboard.  Oh, and it has to be super-lightweight and gig road worthy!  And have a ton of RAM so I could load up lots of large samples, etc., and play them instantly.

 

I guess it would just be a different business model:  Where creating / selling sounds is a separate business from manufacturing keyboards.  I’d have my choice keyboard, and could buy sounds from Yamaha, Roland, Pianoteq, Mainstage, etc, and play them from one integrated instrument.  Or maybe a “controller” with a built-in laptop computer.  The only external cables would be for power in, stereo audio out, and pedals.

 

Just wishing….

[Baldwin Funster]

That would be hard to manufacture. Would it be mac, pc, linux, iOS or proprietary? All formats?  If you would buy sounds what format would they be in? Who sells the sounds? What about 3rd party sound sellers? Would they have to sell sounds in all formats?

These are just a small few of the obstacles that come to mind. 

There are plenty more soft and hard ware issues.

I don't mean to cloud up and rain on your dream but there are reasons I can't have a fold up Jetsons mobile in a suitcase and you aren't likely to see widespread use of your suggestion in the near term.

[erik_nie]

This would tick all the boxes:
Keyboard with PC

[johnchop]

OpenLabs tried this and it didn’t take. 

[cphollis]

The same gap in the market exists for integrated iPad and keyboard.  You would think it wouldn't be hard to build a slot in the top, etc. that was not a toy.

 

I chalk it up to a lack of vision, really.  Give me a gig-grade keyboard that does what it does, and also does everything an iPad does, and I'd likely buy it.

[JamPro]

Well...modern digital keyboards are already "keyboards with a computer inside".  And as Mr. Jr. Deluxe has pointed out, computers need an OS, and the OS will only work with specific data and formats. There is the stumbling block.

 

But I also wish the computers they build inside modern digital keyboards could interact more easily with different external musical data and formats.  The recent move to put AD/DA converters into keyboards - to allows a "one cable" fully functional connection between keyboard and computer - to allow a "one cable" fully functional connection between keyboard and computer - has been a big step forward.  

[johnchop]

I wouldn’t mind a good portable keyboard “shell” that can hold a controller of my choice, a Mac mini, audio I/O, and a way to hold a small touchscreen monitor. I’d probably just get that custom built and call it done 👍

[ElmerJFudd]

The best we can hope for is better quality controllers with better MainStage or VST Live integration built in.  The best action makers aren't in a rush to do this as they are still making money on complete instruments hosting their own sounds.  Kawai VPC-1 and Roland RD-88 were interesting developments.  

 

Computing devices like the Mac MINI or Intel NUC are interesting form factors for a controller that has room to house and mount a desktop operating system computer internally.  With HDMI and USB connection made inside.  A built in 10" display perhaps.  Our best bet would be building such a thing ourselves starting with something like a Yamaha P125 or Roland FP30.  

[marczellm]

36 minutes ago, johnchop said:

OpenLabs tried this and it didn’t take. 

Yes that's what I thought too. Look up the OpenLabs Miko and Neko workstation keyboards. The company went out of business.

[miden]

31 minutes ago, marczellm said:

Yes that's what I thought too. Look up the OpenLabs Miko and Neko workstation keyboards. The company went out of business.

 

Not because of the concept!

[Paul Woodward]

Sounds like you just described a controller keyboard and iPad (delete and replace with MacBook, surface pro etc.)

Only way you will get sounds (apps) from Yamaha, Roland, Korg etc. in one device.

[Docbop]

Too much of a niche market to worth people investing in.    Plus no matter what format you choose PC, Mac, Linux many will complain I want those keys, I want more <fill in the blank>, I want less <fill in the blank>,  it too heavy,  it's it's it's just too black.   

 

No enough money in it to put up with all that.   

[Baldwin Funster]

Not to mention the fact that after 18 months the onboard computer will be nearing obsolescence and newer hq sounds won't be backward compatible with your 2 year old KeyComPuterBoard.

[Docbop]

I remember the first time I had to update our $$$$ Digidesign now Avid Venue mixing console and following the instruction to boot it into maintenance mode.    Window screens appear on the screen and I start laughing.  This big fancy board that cost a fortune is just an oversized  Windows computer.  Installed the update and reboot and boom it's back to being an Venue mixing console. 

[Stokely]

I'm all for it if it's reliable and relatively reasonably-priced.  I liked getting to gigs and hooking up as few things as possible and hitting on buttons, and knowing that if my gear works today it will work five years from now unless there is a hardware failure.  

At home I love software for the convenience and the occasional computer hassle is ok since I have time to mess with it.  Don't want to do that at shows.  I like my setup to be 10 minutes or less with two keyboards and that's including any connections to the PA.  So as long as this computer acts like a dedicated keyboard, bring it on!  I have a lot of great plugins, though I'd argue that the better sonics and choices aren't  needed for the gigs I do (my keyboards sound more than good enough to play gigs.)

[stoken6]

A controller keyboard with a laptop shelf, built-in audio/MIDI interface, and USB Power Deliver to a laptop would be the next best thing to the OP's requirement (only one extra cable to power/interface the laptop) and far less restrictive in terms of market adoption. It would target the iPad sector as well. 

 

EDIT having typed my post, I realised that USB PD is much more useful/important to an iPad than a laptop. For the latter, it's easier to power the controller keyboard from the laptop's USB socket than ask the keyboard to pass up to 100w of power. But yeah, built-in audio interface please.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[RABid]

It would be really hard for a startup to compete with a MacMini + Komplete Kontrol combo.

[ElmerJFudd]

Obviously, Apple isn’t going to release a main stage keyboard instrument, and they aren’t going to license macOS to be installed on generic hardware from a third-party keyboard controller company.  
 

Are there any issues with selling windows 11 on a custom PC in a keyboard instrument?  There must be a reason why previous efforts to run VST’s on a PC Product used Linux (muse receptor comes to mind). 

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

A controller keyboard with a laptop shelf, built-in audio/MIDI interface, and USB Power Deliver to a laptop would be the next best thing to the OP's requirement (only one extra cable to power/interface the laptop) and far less restrictive in terms of market adoption. It would target the iPad sector as well. 

 

EDIT having typed my post, I realised that USB PD is much more useful/important to an iPad than a laptop. For the latter, it's easier to power the controller keyboard from the laptop's USB socket than ask the keyboard to pass up to 100w of power. But yeah, built-in audio interface please.

 

Cheers, Mike.

I've got that now with the Modx, though to power the ipad I use a CCK with extra lightning port.  And of course the Modx has a power supply of its own.  The ipad has enough space to "dock" on the right side.   Yamaha has their issues but they really have done a great thing with these audio interfaces.  It has a separate volume control and I can't feel any latency.
 

I still would prefer to use something built for music over something that is general purpose (like an ipad).  All else being equal of course!   I've had a few glitches that have annoyed me with this setup, nothing gig-stopping (I have the built-in sounds for one thing).

[aronnelson]

We need a "shell" controller keyboard. On the top is a display, inside is a place to mount a Mac mini. 

The controller keyboard is also a MIDI and audio interface.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 minute ago, aronnelson said:

We need a "shell" controller keyboard. On the top is a display, inside is a place to mount a Mac mini. 

The controller keyboard is also a MIDI and audio interface.

That’s my feeling as well.  Keyboard action and controllers/controller inputs (pitch, mod, faders, knobs, etc.), screen, audio interface.   An internal mount for the Mini or NUC /small form factor pc of your choice.  HDMI, USB, TB or whatever connectors hanging there for you to attach.  
 

The only problem is Yamaha, Kawai, Roland are probably not going to offer such a controller with their quality actions while they’re still in the business of selling sound engines that run on their silicon.  So it’s going to be a Fatar build and they only make a few action variants I care to play and own.  Just speculating, I don’t see anyone building this as described.  
 

[K K]

6 hours ago, cassdad said:

It would all be integrated and controlled from the one keyboard.

That's pretty much how I use my Kronos since several years. If I need sounds/instruments not in the thousands already on board, I simply create new multisamples of them using the integrated sampler. Takes some time and effort, but everything is there, including all favorite sounds from older gear I sold since then. YMMV

[RABid]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Are there any issues with selling windows 11 on a custom PC in a keyboard instrument?  There must be a reason why previous efforts to run VST’s on a PC Product used Linux (muse receptor comes to mind). 

Apple does everything they can to restrict their OS to running only on their own hardware. Microsoft licenses their OS to every windows PC manufacturer and many other companies that keep the OS buried under a custom interface. Microsoft is happy to supply the OS for a fee. Apple is not.

[GovernorSilver]

On a related note, I just learned somebody actually tried to go after Korg for GPL violations, in relation to the Kronos, which was a Linux computer designed to be used as a keyboard workstation

 

https://kronoshacker.blogspot.com/2015/05/about-linux-kernel-used-in-korg-kronos.html

[aronnelson]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 

The only problem is Yamaha, Kawai, Roland are probably not going to offer such a controller with their quality actions while they’re still in the business of selling sound engines that run on their silicon.  So it’s going to be a Fatar build and they only make a few action variants I care to play and own.  Just speculating, I don’t see anyone building this as described.  
 

 

But Fatar could be put inside it. But yeah.... bummer.

[ElmerJFudd]

16 minutes ago, RABid said:

Apple does everything they can to restrict their OS to running only on their own hardware. Microsoft licenses their OS to every windows PC manufacturer and many other companies that keep the OS buried under a custom interface. Microsoft is happy to supply the OS for a fee. Apple is not.

So I’m assuming the reason for Linux on Kronos and Muse Receptor is to avoid paying MS’s fee. Although, I suppose they can just pass this fee on to the end user with build to order.  User selects which OS they want and pays for it at checkout?  

[miden]

2 minutes ago, aronnelson said:

 

But Fatar could be put inside it. But yeah.... bummer.

TBH, I think  Fatar are overly demonised  - they re not that bad really...especially when considering some of the cheaper Yamaha Roland and Korg keybeds which folks are "forced/compelled" to like, simply because they need/want the soundset.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

21 minutes ago, miden said:

TBH, I think  Fatar are overly demonised  - they re not that bad really...especially when considering some of the cheaper Yamaha Roland and Korg keybeds which folks are "forced/compelled" to like, simply because they need/want the soundset.

 

I would suggest there are tiers of Fatar actions - as one would expect - depending on what the developer orders and the price point or weight they want to make. We don’t get the same action on an MODX as we do on a Montage either.  Or a DS61 vs a Jupiter-80.  It’s the cheaper and lighter Fatar actions that get the thumb down, same as the other guys.  

[David Emm]

I again recall that behemoth of a car designed by Homer Simpson, heh. I think a Kronos or a Mac Mini with a high-end controller are about as close as we're going to get until quantum computing goes commercial and you can host an old Cray-sized computer on a flash drive. Even then, you'll never escape the need for a solid enough keyboard, accessible GUI & a basket of deplorables like stands n' UPSs. The size, weight & schlep are ongoing issues.

 

My current mode is happily stumbling around inside Logic as if I was in the throes of a mushroom dream, which is not a bad analogy. 

[Adam Burgess]

If I wasn’t so busy doing gigs and arrangement stuff, I would try fitting an old Mac mini innards (the newer ones have much less stuff in them), and an Arduino to take care of new knobs, pedals, and sliders into an old Kronos 73 case I have that I keep knocking over.

 

Can probs get a cheap board from AliExpress to drive the existing LCD screen from the Mac’s HDMI. Touchscreen never works properly on Macs in my experience, that’s a problem I can see.
 

I do like the idea, though!