Thoughts on playing for no income and what to do next

[Paul Woodward]

Okay, having a bit of a change of heart about playing so just reaching out for some of your thoughts. Some background first.

Started touring the clubs of England from the age of 15 and really do love music. Done session work, piano bars and the like to pay my way through Uni, had my own originals band but then 30 years as a teacher (design, not music) and kind of stopped playing live. Always had nice keyboards and a little studio, love songwriting, but can’t play guitar or sing so mostly make instrumental stuff or electronic. This I really do enjoy.

Returned from teaching in Thailand last year a struggled to adjust back to life in the UK, bought a stage piano and thought music might be something to get back into (I’m 53 now). My new job involves a lot of working from home and training teachers. It’s a lonely job.

 

Found an originals band with guys near my age, laid my keys over their studio demos, auditioned and loved it. Full of vigour I spent a few grand on new gear and felt good…

Months later, it’s not moving on much and I have accepted that there is no money in this. I am also aware that the two brothers who set up the band are the main songwriters so I (and the rhythm section) are essentially unpaid backing musicians. The others do it for the love of playing but I worry that resentment at playing someone else’s stuff at my own expense will creep in. No one else seems to want to write so, although they said we can look into it later, I sense it will always be their stuff.

Where I live there are few musical opportunities and I just can’t go back to clubs/pubs doing covers. I also consider myself a good player so I don’t want to join a hobby jam band either (I know that sounds awful, but better to be honest).

 

So, fed up and disillusioned today, I thought about just selling it all today and keeping the stage piano for my own fun/practice/DAW controller. At my age, if I retreat back to the bedroom studio, that will probably be it.

 

Any thoughts or advice welcome, I’m just having a moan really, but no one else I can chat about music with really.

[ProfD]

35 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Always had nice keyboards and a little studio, love songwriting, but can’t play guitar or sing so mostly make instrumental stuff or electronic. This I really do enjoy.

 

Found an originals band with guys near my age, laid my keys over their studio demos, auditioned and loved it. Full of vigour I spent a few grand on new gear and felt good…

 

Where I live there are few musical opportunities and I just can’t go back to clubs/pubs doing covers. I also consider myself a good player so I don’t want to join a hobby jam band either (I know that sounds awful, but better to be honest).

 

So, fed up and disillusioned today, I thought about just selling it all today and keeping the stage piano for my own fun/practice/DAW controller. At my age, if I retreat back to the bedroom studio, that will probably be it.

 

Any thoughts or advice welcome, I’m just having a moan really, but no one else I can chat about music with really.

 

 

@Paul Woodward, as I mentioned in another thread, play on your own terms...mercenary musician.

 

It's understandable that like meeting a new love interest, the band seemed like a good thing in the beginning.  Then, reality strikes.  The luster wears off.

 

Whatever aspect of music brings the most personal satisfaction...do it. 

 

Do not wallow in anything that feels non-productive and/or causes resentment. 

 

Playing music should always be enjoyed and never feel like a chore.

 

Keep the gear that will allow maximum of enjoyment of creating and playing music.😎

[Adan]

As a general rule I won't play in other people's original music projects unless there's something tangible in it for me, and it doesn't sound like this current project is offering you anything other than the opportunity to play out.  But you're also saying you don't have other obvious options for performing music, so there's no "opportunity cost" associated with this project.  

 

My philosopy is, it's important to always be playing and always be performing.  Whatever your best opportunity to perform regularly is, do it and don't worry too much about the pay, the perks, the writing credits, or the lack thereof.  People will hear you, word will get around, and you'll eventually end up where you're supposed to be.

 

i know a lot of folks disagree with that.  That's ok.  They can do it their way, I'll do it mine.  Mine has worked pretty well so far.

[CyberGene]

I am constantly through periods. I play with some guys, it wears off, I sell all my equipment and move on to solo classical piano for my own pleasure at home, then after two years somebody calls me, I’m enthusiastic and start buying some gear, it’s great in the beginning but quickly becomes boring. Rinse and repeat 😕 But at least I’m always occupied with some music activities and that’s what matters. Ohh, and I have a permanent job in the IT. Certainly helps in avoiding some depression from the periodic disappointment. 

[JamPro]

I have recently quit two different bands because the bandleader insisted that only they have the prerogative to make decisions for the band (decisions on which songs, how the songs will be arranged, finances - how gig pay is to be distributed, finances - who should pay for band expenses, etc.).  This almost uniformly involved the BL making a show of listening before interrupting, or simply ignoring any input and doing whatever the BL wanted to do.  Sometimes the results were trivial (my song preference not included in the set list), and somethings the results were spectacularly bad (BL cancels important headline gig the morning of).

 

I'm older than you, so I distinctly feel that my time and energy are limited and I refuse to waste my limited resources working for a situation where  I am not well rewarded.  And the reward for me is either paying me reasonably for the work I do creating what the BL wants, or a fully collaborative process with the BL and others that results in what I feel is great music.  I do NOT consider myself the BL's employee; I am their collaborator if they want one and are willing to forego a more coercive band environment.

 

So I have a very low threshold for opting out.  But your mileage may vary: everyone else  in those bands continues to put up with behavior that I walked away from.

 

(Of those two bands, one has not been able to recruit another keyboard player; the other found a keyboard player who is clearly a step downwards for the band, and refuses to make rehearsals with them.)

[Paul Woodward]

Keyboard players (professional quality anyway) are pretty scarce in the area, but it seems many have either managed without them or used backing (in the case of club/wedding bands).

Despite the boredom of my job, it pays well and all expenses are covered so I don’t need an income from music. It also means I can twiddle with gear/ songwrite/practice throughout the day when I am not travelling. I don’t resent buying gear, it was my choice, but the multiple boards, stands, amps etc. are purely for gigging and I’m struggling to justify the cost at the moment.

As for collaboration, I think they want me to believe it’s likely but I suggested a some child changes which the band loved, but the guitarist (main writer) seemed a bit put out by this and, several rehearsals later, he still skips the change then asks for another reminder of what the chords are like he can’t be arsed. Maybe I’m reading too much into that but it’s my gut feeling.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

I left my last band when the drummer and business manager (I was musical director so to speak) wrote his first songs in the first lockdown.

 

Needless to say he ended up writing 30 songs in 30 days of lockdown having never written before and all were lets say not to a standard I could stand playing. I expected some to be introduced one by one and I cope with only some to be nice.

 

When we returned from lockdown he signed us up to a local family festival gig. He wanted half of the 12 songs to be original with only a month or so to learn. Not totally all for him as we were allowed to contribute our originals too. But a few weeks to learn 6 new originals phhhh for a gig where the punters are familys wanting to hear what they know. "Vanity projects" means crickets chirping. 

 

Basically it was known he would one day make the band his own vanity project. But i thought id have another year before that happened but for the pandemic which gave him a chance to actually compose his songs. Sung into a phone for guitarist to interpret chords. How the guitarist did that to the discordant vocals "I dips me hat".

 

I told him they were CRAP and left the band. Had i really wanted to tell him what i really thought i didnt want to go as deep to say his singing is monotone and audiences would not want to hear his voice as a lead singer but i stopped before that as that was too personal. 

 

Heres the vanity of him. Where the guitarist who helped him put music to his shockingly sung lead tape at least said "Im sorry to see you go" all the drummer said was "are you going to play the festival"

 

Again I said NO. Im not learning 6 new original songs in a few weeks to look like a turkey on the day.

 

Ironically the newly joined bass player asked me to attend the gig (im assuming he hoped id reconsider as he was upset at my leaving). Which for his sake I did attend hidden at the back of the festival grounds(I didnt want to put them off by being seen) 

 

Seeing them do their originals which were now 5 drummer originals and one guitarist original (which is a good song) I was well and truley happy I left the band.

 

My take is if you are not into the originals or not into their "vanity project" then find a new project or form one.

 

Good luck what you decide. Bands are never easy.

 

 

[Bill H.]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

 

 

Found an originals band with guys near my age, laid my keys over their studio demos, auditioned and loved it. Full of vigour I spent a few grand on new gear and felt good…

Months later, it’s not moving on much and I have accepted that there is no money in this. I am also aware that the two brothers who set up the band are the main songwriters so I (and the rhythm section) are essentially unpaid backing musicians. The others do it for the love of playing but I worry that resentment at playing someone else’s stuff at my own expense will creep in. No one else seems to want to write so, although they said we can look into it later, I sense it will always be their stuff.

Where I live there are few musical opportunities and I just can’t go back to clubs/pubs doing covers. I also consider myself a good player so I don’t want to join a hobby jam band either (I know that sounds awful, but better to be honest).

 

Personally I see little difference between adding keys to originals I had no part in writing, and adding keys to covers I had no part in writing. But I've always enjoyed clubs if they are busy and the band is good. I feed off the vibe of an audience, and if it's not there I lose interest. And even if the money isn't much, it always feels good to get paid something!

 

If the right opportunity presents itself, I would suggest giving it a try. 

[ITGITC]

7 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

 

Maybe I’m reading too much into that but it’s my gut feeling.

 

 

Trust your gut.

 

If you have a situation where none of your creative/musical ideas are taken seriously and incorporated into the act BUT you are getting paid well, then it can be justified.  However, I don't think this is your scenario.

An alternative is to become the band leader / music director and make it your own.  Sure, it's a tall order.  Only a few have what it takes to make this happen.

 

Nevertheless, if you're unhappy, it's only a matter of time before you consider an alternative.

 

Been there.  Done that.  Got the balance sheet with all that red ink. 

[Paul Woodward]

Wise words indeed guys, I knew I would get sound advice from here. The first bunch of tracks were great and I was hooked, keys really enhance them. Now feels like they need to get an ‘album’s worth’ of songs and the recent ones feel very cliched and boring with keys providing little benefit, nor can I find anything ‘exciting’ to add. Think songs with just 5 or 6 different chords throughout verse and chorus (and not in a blues way either). Lots of 6th and 9th chords trying for a jazz/funk vibe.

As a I read your comments and my own words, I suspect there is only one outcome really. Maybe time to get my own band together and find a co-writer/guitarist.

[timwat]

Most of us were told there are three possible reasons to commit to a gig:

 

1) the pay

2) the hang

3) the growth 

 

If you get 2 out of 3, count yourself lucky. If you actually get 3 out of 3, milk it because it won't last. 

 

If you're only getting 1 out of 3, it better be tall or it's time to walk.

 

These days I turn down 90% of the gigs I'm offered, i think. It took me a minute to build a rep in my local area, but now life and other responsibilities means my time is scarce, and too scarce to put up with less-than-optimal situations. So I mostly choose to play the gigs with folks I really enjoy hanging with, or the type of music I really enjoy. 

 

Life's short, and shorter the older we get. Spend your time wisely, where you get the most return...whatever return that is valuable to you. And for goodness sake, don't waste it in situations where you know you don't really belong.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Oh and the no income makes it unpalitable for me. You spend on gear you gotta try and get some form of pay back.

 

In my case i had multiple rehearsals to drive to and overal i doubt if the money we got ever covered my fuel bills let alone gear. 

 

Gigs here for bands dont pay well. So i expect some gig payment to cover fuel bills at least to rehersals.

 

I did a solo recently and thatd be equivalent to 5 gigs with the band, although im not chasing anything due to moving house I will look carefully at what I do in future.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

37 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

 

As a I read your comments and my own words, I suspect there is only one outcome really. Maybe time to get my own band together and find a co-writer/guitarist.

 

I think you were heading that way but needing some peer feedback.

 

Yes I totally agree with you. I never once introduced my originals to my old band as mine were a different genre infact mine are many different genres that would be opposite to their blues/roots music likes.

 

 

Our covers in RSL clubs were typical Aussie and overseas RSL covers and we had a good audience. They didnt want to hear blues all night thats for sure. A little here and there fine.

 

So even though I could have contribured to the originals Id have to write to their blues style as my originals are not compatible.

 

Hence I never pushed any of mine which ironically would probably be ok in RSL clubs. I know with the guitarist Id have no probs but the drummer who was the founding member of this band had a dream of being famous at the age of 75 now the lead singer owner of the first band had left. We renamed band but everything was pushed thru to drummers benefit.

 

Being American he was roots and blues music and wanted Aussies to hug his Roots music. Lets face it most Aussies dont know what roots music is even though it encompasses many styles and the roots audience is definately diminutive in Aussie.

 

We started as an RSL cover band. Our audience was RSL clubs. Originals didnt suit this band. Vanity projects should be an offshoot project not injected upon an existing band.

 

As you joined a vanity project and you are not happy now then its seems that forming your own vanity project is on the cards but do make sure you have the right people as its difficult to make everyone happy

 

Perhaps a duo is a good safety size band. Only one to get shits with.

 

I know my future thoughts of a band maybe a duo even for a cover band let alone a vanity project. 

 

Or will i chase more solo gigs. Although those can be lonely without a partner to pick you up when you are down and visa versa

 

 

[zephonic]

For the last seven years I've been a mercenary gig whore, just trying to get as much $$$ as I could but after my mom passed away I've had a bit of a change of heart. I'm kind of done with the cover band thing and am trying to scale it down. Thing is, I haven't quite figured out what to do next, I know I want to do my own stuff, but it hasn't come into focus yet.

 

While gig whoring, I did play for shits and giggles in a "fusion" ensemble, just to be able to play some original stuff and stretch out. They only ever did occasional unpaid gigs, but I did them because it was a good hang and the music was somewhat interesting. 

 

I think the old adage applies: do it for the music, the money, or the hang. If you get two out of three, that's not bad.

 

@Paul Woodward Sounds like you're not getting even one out of three there, so...

 

[Bobadohshe]

2 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

Wise words indeed guys, I knew I would get sound advice from here. The first bunch of tracks were great and I was hooked, keys really enhance them. Now feels like they need to get an ‘album’s worth’ of songs and the recent ones feel very cliched and boring with keys providing little benefit, nor can I find anything ‘exciting’ to add. Think songs with just 5 or 6 different chords throughout verse and chorus (and not in a blues way either). Lots of 6th and 9th chords trying for a jazz/funk vibe.

As a I read your comments and my own words, I suspect there is only one outcome really. Maybe time to get my own band together and find a co-writer/guitarist.

Any chance this material could really come alive when you play it live? The number of different chords have little bearing on how fun tunes are to play live in my world. If the band is slamming and the material presents as fresh and interesting, you might have a cool opportunity to hand and not realize it.

[Paul Woodward]

I do love this place, it’s like chatting to a bunch of smart minded musos in good old music shop.

[Tusker]

Paul, reading between the lines of your discomfort with the band… it seems you have something to say, musically. You want to write. 
 

Is that a goal for you? If so, create your own vehicle. Maybe it’s the perfect time. Could it be a band, a cd with friends, a solo cd? Nothing else will scratch that itch if you have it.

 

Otherwise, since you aren’t happy, and you are thinking of leaving anyway, I would try to negotiate. It seems you want to contribute in more meaningful ways. We all know how badly a band “conversation” can go. Nine times out of ten nothing will come of it, but you can say you tried. There are a few bands I have left without explanation and I don’t do that anymore. YMMV.

[David R]

Addressing the idea put forward in the subject line: I firmly believe that anytime I have to leave my house to play music, I should be paid. There are far too many people who take terrible exposure gigs who dismiss it because it’s not their primary income stream. What winds up happening is that the conditions become a race to the bottom for those who do perform live as their primary source of income. As we come out of the pandemic, I understand that everyone is hungry to play for other human beings, but playing for the hat or the tip bucket (unless you’re somewhere with a strong tipping culture like New Orleans) is disrespectful to one’s fellow musicians and the music you put forward. Your art has a value - charge for it.
 

Gear costs money, gas costs money, mortgage/rent costs money. The bank won’t accept the joy of music or exposure as payment.

[Paul Woodward]

24 minutes ago, Tusker said:

Paul, reading between the lines of your discomfort with the band… it seems you have something to say, musically. You want to write. 
 

Is that a goal for you? If so, create your own vehicle. Maybe it’s the perfect time. Could it be a band, a cd with friends, a solo cd? Nothing else will scratch that itch if you have it.

 

Otherwise, since you aren’t happy, and you are thinking of leaving anyway, I would try to negotiate. It seems you want to contribute in more meaningful ways. We all know how badly a band “conversation” can go. Nine times out of ten nothing will come of it, but you can say you tried. There are a few bands I have left without explanation and I don’t do that anymore. YMMV.

I have been creating my own music since the 80’s and, as I mentioned, had a band where me and the singer/guitarist absolutely nailed a shared vision with some great tracks for the time (IMO). Reviews of our demos were good and we had some good gigs. That was Birmingham and we kind of went our separate ways when I moved back up north.

What I really need is the same thing locally (big ask I know). I would love to co-write, record and produce, but it’s so hard to find someone on the same wavelength intentionally. Usually that happens as you spend time with someone and realise you are just sort of ‘right for each other’…

Still, I have popped up a few ‘ads’ to see if a I can find that collaboration.

[Adan]

36 minutes ago, David R said:

 What winds up happening is that the conditions become a race to the bottom for those who do perform live as their primary source of income. As we come out of the pandemic, I understand that everyone is hungry to play for other human beings, but playing for the hat or the tip bucket (unless you’re somewhere with a strong tipping culture like New Orleans) is disrespectful to one’s fellow musicians and the music you put forward.

That theory doesn't seem to apply in this situation.  If Paul doesn't play in this band, the bandleader isn't going to say "well, I guess I gotta call up a professional musician and pay union wages."  Generally speaking, that doesn't happen in originals bands that haven't yet established themselves.  What usually happens, instead, is the bandleader tries to suck you with "we're gonna be famous," or "you'll be my collaborator in this equal artistic partnership."  Second one rarely happens, and the first one . . . well, you know.

 

More broadly, i'm firmly on the other side in the whether to play for free debate.  If you choose as your profession something so fun and gratifying that people will do it for free, then you're just going to have deal with people doing it for free.  They might be making a stupid decision, but that's up to them.

[David R]

3 minutes ago, Adan said:

That theory doesn't seem to apply in this situation.  If Paul doesn't play in this band, the bandleader isn't going to say "well, I guess I gotta call up a professional musician and pay union wages."  Generally speaking, that doesn't happen in originals bands that haven't yet established themselves.  What usually happens, instead, is the bandleader tries to suck you with "we're gonna be famous," or "you'll be my collaborator in this equal artistic partnership."  Second one rarely happens, and the first one . . . well, you know.

I guess my point, in terms of Paul’s situation, would be: “hey, we’ve been working really hard on this music we believe in, we’re going to play a show and charge $x at the door, or the venue is paying us $x to play our music.” Doesn’t have to be union, and it doesn’t have to be a LOT of money, but we deserve to be paid for what we do.

[CEB]

Playing for no income is what I’m doing. Small format one dimensional Blues band.  Good players, good vocals. Rehearsal once a week in a basement where I set up a rehearsal rig.  I don’t know if we will get out of the basement. Don’t really care. I play everyday at home but I’m easily distracted… Squirrel!  The band makes makes me prepare and adds an element of discipline and it’s a good hang. It makes me play in a groove. Playing Autumn Leaves and Nardis at home is the exactly opposite where I’m totally free to Jack with timing and not forced to fit in with the program.    
 

I’m just not physically up to the grind of being a player anymore.  But a few winery jobs a year could be an occasional treat.  
 

Life is short. There is no dress rehearsal. Do what makes you happy. 

[summerinstereo]

IMO, trust your gut. It's never wrong. Even if it's literally wrong and they magically make trillions of dollars and become uber famous, your gut won't mislead you in determining what's right for you. If it's not working, it's not working. You'll have more fun doing what you want to do, when you want to do it. 

 

My little story is, I've been in a few bands - one mostly originals etc, wound up with a member of that band leaving because I couldn't commit to rehearsing as often as they wanted to (had a job with odd shifts). No issues here, he made the right choice. He and another member of that band have been through a number of variations together, supporting others etc and now they're doing their own thing and getting some gigs which is great. 

 

After that, I went solo for a little while, then had a rockabilly/bluesy band that didn't last too long, then went solo again. This sentence was actually somehow spread over the course of a few years. I went for a long time without playing anything at all in there.

 

Last year, I decided to go all in on music and had to have a think about who I am, musically, what I do, what I should be looking to do etc and decided I'm just not a team player.

 

I need full control of any and all songs that are written. I want to be the only songwriter in any group I'm in, with zero input from others. I want to be the only vocalist and would prefer to harmonise with myself than have someone else sing on my songs. I want complete control over the covers songs I play in any act, with zero input from others.

If I'm not being paid, this is.

 

If I'm being paid, I am happy to support someone else. I am happy to just play some rhythm chords, throw up harmonies and play songs I would never choose to play.

But I need to be paid for this.

 

So, I just went all in on the solo thing. Got gigs, solo. Put out some solo acoustic originals. Put out some synthwave originals that were 100% done by me.

I do have a collaboration with someone else, but he came to me about mixing up a song I already wrote, recorded, and released.

 

Anyway, I write all this to say.. a look at who you are musically, what you want to do, and all of that, is something that should happen.

 

If it's not working with these guys then it's not working. Maybe think about why that is. Is it them? Is it you?

Is it just because there's no pay? Would you be happier doing what they want, if you were paid for it?

 

Thinking about it all opens up some questions which could result in outcomes - maybe you can reach out and offer to continue playing for them, if you're paid.

If you're not paid, then you just say "ok cool, good luck" and leave and do your own thing.

 

There's so many paths you could take. I think it's important to have a sit down and a real think about what is basically the start of this chapter, so you've got a foundation to work from.

 

For me, that resulted in me accepting that I'm simply not a team player. I want full control over everything, unless I'm being paid - in which case, it's a job, not a hobby or passion project and that shifts the way I perceive it.

 

Could be similar for you.

 

It might be that you decide you actually would be cool playing for no pay, with the right people. Maybe they aren't the right people.

I personally would love to jam and play with the people I was in a band with originally, they're great people, we always have a killer time when we're together - there's a solid human and musical chemistry there that works. But they're doing their own thing and so am I.

Just saying, I'd be down with playing with them and perhaps even *for* them, without pay.

 

But other people, nah. It's all dependant on the people involved with that stuff, and your own financial situation - can you literally afford to spend time doing things that make no money? Everyone's in a different spot.

 

Gotta put it all into context, maybe literally into writing, and go from there.

 

4 hours ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

Being American he was roots and blues music and wanted Aussies to hug his Roots music. Lets face it most Aussies dont know what roots music is even though it encompasses many styles and the roots audience is definately diminutive in Aussie.

 

Off-topic but I'm also an Aussie - where abouts are you from?

It's true we're just not into blues. Maybe a song here or there. 4 hours of blues will result in never being asked back to the venue.

[Paul Woodward]

Thanks again for your comments.

A few things are a little ‘off’ about this band, but maybe it is just me. I am quite dominant and like to lead (I have been MD in a few commercial cover bands, and a head of department in education).

The two brothers have a history of creating bands that get some interest but no deals. Their last single (many years ago) was produced by the same guy who made the Artic Monkeys’ first album, they have supported at some big venues, but they never seem to get past that and they are all getting older now to be in the teen pop/rock market.

Singer made it clear yesterday there was no money in this unless they got real lucky and this means free gigs where I’m paying to get there and back. Even if there was some cover charge or sale of songs for example, pretty sure the two brothers would want the main cut as songwriters.

When I first met them I joined as I could see some of my stuff fitting in (same rhodes/hammond funky rock vibe) and shared an albums worth of songs. Lead singer said ‘great’ we can look into that once we get this first albums worth of stuff done. Several months later, I don’t think they even listened and we are rehearsing the same 5 or 6 songs to death.

Also, we are gregarious folk here in Yorkshire yet, despite some of these guys living within 15 miles of me, there has not been a suggestion of a get together socially, at a home, pub etc. This further reinforces the feeling that I’m a live backing track for ‘songwriters’.

They are nice guys but maybe not who I would choose as friends. I appreciate they got me back into playing in a band, which I am enjoying, but slow progress and all of the above is leaving me frustrated. 
Nothing to be gained by just leaving at this point, but I think we all knew the inevitable outcome from the first post. Will drop them a line but I suspect the singer already knows this is coming from my questions of late. Thanks again all, and please continue to share your thoughts, they are refreshing to hear.

[Paul Woodward]

Well, I had a few responses to posts looking for someone to develop stuff which is probably better for me. They want a taste of what I do and I have this mix of electronic/techno stuff and more 'traditional' stuff (that would be live band focused). Any thoughts on how best to describe the style(s) you hear to a prospective collaborator. or should I just send over the 'band' focused tracks. All the stuff here is just me and a DAW.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F-DbiBJQ5titj9fXRV253__eyKpMSPyp/view?usp=share_link

 

This is the stuff I really enjoy doing but don't want it just as a bedroom hobby.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

8 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

 

Off-topic but I'm also an Aussie - where abouts are you from?

It's true we're just not into blues. Maybe a song here or there. 4 hours of blues will result in never being asked back to the venue.

 

Im on the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria but originally Sydney till 8 years ago. Being a Sydney sider in Victoria meant I had no local knowledge to manage a band so joined an existing band. And i only wanted to play on the Peninsula thus limiting band choices further.

 

I found it very hard to find a local band here so against my judgement I joined a 50s rock band just to perfom. Not a fan of playing 50s rock or too much blues. Well not dance 50s music i do like the ballads of the day.

 

But i needed to play so I put up with the original singers stardom then the drumners wannaba be stardom in the 2nd version of the band.

 

Although in the 2nd version as a singer i could at least introduce non 50s rock songs. Alas the drummer being in control of the management side kept advertising us as a blues /  roots band but eventually when the blues / roots push became a shove I had enough. 

 

As you said no Aussie RSL club would listen to more than a few such songs although the 50s rock thing is viable down here I was glad when we changed direction before the blues push once the original singer was gone

 

 

[cphollis]

For me, I had to get really clear as to what I wanted from my music experience.  It wasn't what I thought it was.

 

Perhaps the best way to explain is by way of analogy?  We are all born with native language skills.  Some of us are great conversationalists and use language well.  We really enjoy a good conversation with like-minded people.  It leaves us feeling stimulated and satisfied in a pleasant way.

 

Language centers and musical centers are adjacent in our brains.  Much of the symbolic processing is similar.  Indeed, singing is considered a language in many species.

 

So, what does this do with what I want out of music? 

 

Good: a good conversation. 

Better: a really good conversation that others enjoy listening to. 

Best: doing it live when you're on that highwire.  Getting paid is nice, but not essential.  

 

With that in mind for the last few years, it has guided me to better musical experiences.  

 

Best of luck!

[Reezekeys]

I'm not sure how much of this applies to those with music-making as an avocation but in my circle it's the eternal triangle: the money, the music, and the hang. Most of the full-time musicians I know, as well as myself, need two out of three!

[KuruPrionz]

If there is no $$$ then I would require fantastic musical experiences at the very least. I'm a songwriter and playing in bar bands for many years has taught me that my songs are good. I was in the last band for 5 years and we got requests for my songs often. After I amicably resigned, the BL lead singer mentioned that he still gets requests for my songs and was thinking about learning the requested tunes so he could keep everybody happy. He is also a songwriter and a good one but his songs don't fit a bar band situation so there is a bit of ego involved. He hasn't learned my stuff and that's fine with me. 

 

At this point, I want to record my own stuff and am also working on a solo acoustic act. I may expand the gigging to a duo or even a trio at some point. I've got plenty to stay busy and I was careful not to lose any friends with my departure so all is well. 

 

Ponder your options, chose the one that makes you happy and focus on giving that your all, make it meaningful. 

[zephonic]

6 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

Several months later, I don’t think they even listened and we are rehearsing the same 5 or 6 songs to death.

 

That is a major red flag for me. I’ve encountered that a few times, and usually bail.