Sample Conversion from Mac to Kronos?

[Adam Burgess]

Just been booked to do a Whitney Houston tribute for the second time. 

Last time I had an SV1 and Arturia 61 MIDI'd to my Integra-7, with an original Triton doing some other bits and bobs. Plus a totally unMIDI'd i3 as emergency backup.
Mac was running multitracked BVs, 808 loops, and click so didn't want to bother it with MainStage, too 🙂 I have, of course, mislaid the USB drive with the Integra patches I'd programmed; so would have to redo the patches anyway. (Still a bugbear that this thing has such little storage!)

My Kronos 88 is back up and running, so was thinking about getting the D50-ish stuff sampled from the Integra with Logic's AutoSampler then using the Kronos and the Arturia only. Never done this before, so looking for anything decent for Mac to do a nice conversion to a KSP(?) or SF2? The things I've found seem to be a bit unsupported, and clunky. Should I just re-program the Integra, and use the Kronos for the DX7ish stuff, or have the Kronos as a big controller? 

I do also have Parallels and Windows 11 on the M2 MBA which seems to be working ok with some legacy stuff programming older BSS install DSPs - although, again - clunky 🤪 I'll use Windows only if I have to! I do have an M1 MBA I could MainStage with - but, I really don't want to worry about TWO laptops on stage!

Cheers, and, as always, looking forward to the usual diverse workflows and opinions!

Adam

[ElmerJFudd]

Burning Busch still around? 

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, Adam Burgess said:

Mac was running multitracked BVs, 808 loops, and click so didn't want to bother it with MainStage, too 🙂 

 

Why not? An M1/2 Mac can't handle both, you're sure? It sounds like it would save a lot of time to do it like that rather than going the Autosampler & convert route.

 

Having said this, I found this free tool to create SFZ files from a Logic EXS instrument file. I used it to get an Autosampler instrument into my iPad (Virsyn's AudioLayer imports SFZ files). AudioLayer reads EXS files too, but I was having a weird crashing issue and decided to try SFZ instead.

 

https://www.bjoernbojahr.de/exs2sfz.html (in German but easy to figure out).

 

I see that the Kronos can't handle SFZ, only SF2. I have this app which will load SFZs then let you export as SF2. Unfortunately it has a weird UI that may have you scratching your head for a while, but as long as you're simply loading then immediately exporting it might not be too much of a bear:

 

https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com

 

All this sounds like a potentially lengthy process (I guess it depends on the # and complexity of the Integra sounds you need to sample). I remember it took Autosampler at least 30 - 40 minutes to sample my piano – that was over 270 10-second long samples totalling almost 700MB. Good luck - HTH though probably not! 🙂 

[Adam Burgess]

18 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Why not? An M1/2 Mac can't handle both, you're sure? It sounds like it would save a lot of time to do it like that rather than going the Autosampler & convert route.

 

Having said this, I found this free tool to create SFZ files from a Logic EXS instrument file. I used it to get an Autosampler instrument into my iPad (Virsyn's AudioLayer imports SFZ files). AudioLayer reads EXS files too, but I was having a weird crashing issue and decided to try SFZ instead.

 

https://www.bjoernbojahr.de/exs2sfz.html (in German but easy to figure out).

 

I see that the Kronos can't handle SFZ, only SF2. I have this app which will load SFZs then let you export as SF2. Unfortunately it has a weird UI that may have you scratching your head for a while, but as long as you're simply loading then immediately exporting it might not be too much of a bear:

 

https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com

 

All this sounds like a potentially lengthy process (I guess it depends on the # and complexity of the Integra sounds you need to sample). I remember it took Autosampler at least 30 - 40 minutes to sample my piano – that was over 270 10-second long samples totalling almost 700MB. Good luck - HTH though probably not! 🙂 

Having one machine do both jobs gives me no redundancy, that's all. And, having never done it before, there's no harm learning new stuff. 

I mean there's no complicated patches. Be a couple of synths or a piano and pad… Got plenty time to test!

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a download and see how/if it works! But, the Kronos' file system is yet another rabbit-hole!

[jerrythek]

You should look into this software:

 

https://www.chickensys.com/products2/translator/index.html

 

The swiss-army knife of conversion.

 

Regards,

 

Jerry

[ProfD]

The Kronos should have a decent facsimile of every sound used on recordings past through present.

 

The Kronos has sampling capability and loads WAV files too.  The Logic AutoSampler is a great tool as well.

 

Either way, the Kronos should be able to do quite a bit of the heavy lifting for that type of gig.

 

In addition to the Kronos, adding a laptop and an unweighted MIDI KB to the rig knocks that gig out of the park.😎

[Adam Burgess]

19 hours ago, ProfD said:

The Kronos should have a decent facsimile of every sound used on recordings past through present.

 

The Kronos has sampling capability and loads WAV files too.  The Logic AutoSampler is a great tool as well.

 

Either way, the Kronos should be able to do quite a bit of the heavy lifting for that type of gig.

 

In addition to the Kronos, adding a laptop and an unweighted MIDI KB to the rig knocks that gig out of the park.😎

Yes, the Kronos gets close enough, no doubt. Korg's pads and pianos are more than fine. Could do it on the Kronos and Arturia USB straight in. No laptop required.
I did enjoy the D50 Fantasy / BellPad things from the Integra, though. Cheese is fine. 

It's a one off gig for three shows - I'm not too precious about it, but thought it would be a good project to learn about some sampling stuff.
I could buy (or lease or whatever the deal is with Roland Cloud) the D50 and I'm sure I'd be happy, but since I already have the Integra…

Maybe before I leave for my gig tomorrow I'll set the home Mac doing some auto-sampling from the Integra and see what happens.
 

[Adam Burgess]

On 2/23/2023 at 4:42 PM, jerrythek said:

You should look into this software:

 

https://www.chickensys.com/products2/translator/index.html

 

The swiss-army knife of conversion.

 

Regards,

 

Jerry

Well, this is what I meant about clunky - as my original post.

It took about an hour to download the Free app.

Can't really check out how it works as it's so limited. Can I not even try ONE conversion? No.
Seems very unsupported.

Crashed on three different machines (M1 and M2) just pressing random buttons as there's nothing else to try!

[Reezekeys]

The first free app I linked to in my previous post here worked great for me when I converted exs to sfz. Very quick too since it doesn't deal with the samples, just their parameters.

 

Unfortunately the second app I linked to (Polyphone) failed to properly load the sfz file so I couldn't convert it to sf2 there. I tried some troubleshooting steps without success so I'm not gonna waste more time there, but perhaps there are other apps out there to convert sfz to sf2.

[AnotherScott]

Besides Apple's autosampler, there's SampleRobot and Samplit. Under Windows, besides those last two, there's also Extreme Sample Converter.

[Reezekeys]

Looks like those apps would work but imo it's too much money to spend for a piece of software you might only gonna use once to get you through three gigs.

 

Adam, not to state the obvious - but if you have to re-program the Integra anyway, why not just bring it to the gig? This current route seems like a lot of work to avoid carrying a two-space rack module.

[K K]

I often use SampleRobot 3 with Polyphone, converting waves to SF2 files, then importing them in the Kronos. There are a few weird things to fix but after a while you know exactly what to do. For looped samples, depending on the results you get, you might also need a decent wave editor like WaveLab to define the exact sample point positions on the Kronos.

[Reezekeys]

SampleRobot doesn't save directly to SF2, which as I understand the Kronos can import? What do you use Polyphone for?

[ProfD]

The discussion here is exactly why manufacturers are stripping features away from KBs especially workstations.😁😎

[K K]

3 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

SampleRobot doesn't save directly to SF2,

 

Yes SampleRobot (at least v3) does save in SF2 using its Export command. I like it simply because it is quicker to initially create a new multisample using its .WAV drag/drop function on the keyboard.

 

3 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

What do you use Polyphone for?

 

Since Sample Robot 3 cannot open SF2 files, you would have to start from scratch every time to modify something. So I also use Polyphone for it is a true SF2 editor. Also, SampleRobot has this hard-coded feature you can't disable which adds annoying prefixes to all samples contained in a given work. Since most libraries I create are complex and can involve hundreds of samples, this useless feature makes the work impossible to decipher after a while when you fine tune things after the initial creation. With Polyphone, you can bulk rename anything quickly and easily modify existing SF2s. None of those two software is perfect for me though, but I've learned to work within the limitations of programs.

[Reezekeys]

50 minutes ago, K K said:

Yes SampleRobot (at least v3) does save in SF2 using its Export command. I like it simply because it is quicker to initially create a new multisample using its .WAV drag/drop function on the keyboard.

 

Sorry, my wording was bad. I was asking you to confirm that SampleRobot can save a SF2 file - I had read that it did. Adam needs that to load into his Kronos. In that case he would have no need for Polyphone, correct? SampleRobot will do what Logic's autosampler does, "play" notes on his Integra, sample them, then build an SF2 file from them, which can be directly imported by a Kronos. Or am I mistaken about what SampleRobot does?

 

I just spent way too much time trying to get the SFZ file of my piano into Polyphone. It seems to choke on the SFZ – none of the samples came up. Took me a while to see that .AIFF aren't supported, so I converted to .WAV. I could separately drag those into Polyphone but then I had an issue with the file names getting truncated - so I shortened the names and edited the .SFZ file to reflect the new names. The samples are there, I see them, but they're in a separate window and not comnected at all to the (broken) SFZ definition I loaded in. I made sure the .SFZ was in the same directory with the samples. Kudos to you for figuring out Polyphone. I even tried to register an account on the website but got an error message that they couldn't send me the email link to confirm my account. I'm done!

[K K]

Libraries I create with SampleRobot + Polyphone are all for my Kronos as well. About automatic features of SampleRobot, I never used them and I doubt everything will work perfectly. Most of those automated sample converting programs create weird errors, wrong loops/cuts or can't transform velocity layers correctly on a keyboard map, etc. Too many mistakes and it takes even more time, so I prefer doing that stuff manually.

 

Then comes the Kronos particular odd SF2 digestion caprices which involve a few "weird things to fix" that I mentioned above, but this is rather minimal. So to me, I could not achieve my Kronos sample libraries using only SampleRobot. Maybe it is sufficient for others depending on their goals or how they work - YMMV.

[Adam Burgess]

19 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Looks like those apps would work but imo it's too much money to spend for a piece of software you might only gonna use once to get you through three gigs.

 

Adam, not to state the obvious - but if you have to re-program the Integra anyway, why not just bring it to the gig? This current route seems like a lot of work to avoid carrying a two-space rack module.

Was really to learn new stuff and see how easy it would be! Not very, it seems haha!
Don't mind carrying stuff around at all. I may play about a bit but will use the rack module on these gigs with the Kronos and a controller.

Probably with a Mac in the way to look after some routing.
 

19 hours ago, K K said:

I often use SampleRobot 3 with Polyphone, converting waves to SF2 files, then importing them in the Kronos. There are a few weird things to fix but after a while you know exactly what to do. For looped samples, depending on the results you get, you might also need a decent wave editor like WaveLab to define the exact sample point positions on the Kronos.

Thanks for the heads up and experiences with SampleRobot. I shall have a look at it.

I will set some Auto Sampling away in the morning. See what I can actually do with the files.
If I test it enough, maybe I could run MainStage and the multi-tracks on one Mac, too… I still dunno! 

I'm not in any hurry, got a good few weeks yet.

[Reezekeys]

15 hours ago, K K said:

Most of those automated sample converting programs create weird errors, wrong loops/cuts or can't transform velocity layers correctly on a keyboard map, etc. Too many mistakes and it takes even more time, so I prefer doing that stuff manually.

 

I can only relate my limited experience with Logic's autosampler. It worked well for what I needed - sampling my Native Instruments New York piano. Nine velocity layers, sampled every three semitones, about 640 megs for 270 samples total. That said, I didn't use the "auto loop finding feature" - most samples are 10 seconds long and all are unlooped. I also had to do some manual adjustments to the overall velocity->volume setting and the envelope release time, but those were pretty quick. I've not tried sampling a hardware instrument.

 

I would like to get a handle on Polyphone at some point, and find it hard to believe there's no other shareware or freeware SFZ-->SF2 conversion tool out there besides Polyphone, which I couldn't get to work, but that appears to be the case. Maybe I didn't look hard enough.

[rickzjamm]

Been gigging the Kronos for 12 years & yet to find the cover song that can't be replicated in its internal facility.