The "Perfect Keyboard" (hardware or software)...

[The Real MC]

...will never exist

...even if they could build it, you can't afford it

...even if they did build it, no one would buy anything else

...even if they did build it, it would be the very last keyboard/softsynth anybody would buy

...if if were the very last keyboard/softsynth anybody would buy, all the makers would go out of business

...if all the software makers went out of business, no one will develop upgrades for newer computer OS

...if all the hardware makers went out of business, no more firmware upgrades

...if all the hardware makers went out of business, no more spare parts if they break

...as more and more of them break, they stay broken

...as more and more of them break, the world supply is depleting

 

Be careful what you ask for.

 

Don't strive for perfection.  Strive for Excellent.

[Stokely]

The good thing about software instruments--at home at least--is that there's no need for one plugin to rule them all.  Easy enough to grab another one from the stable.

Live, and in particular when I'm in my "one keyboard for practices and gigs" mode, is where I look for it.  And for the music I do, it's the normal trio--1) piano/"all-rounder" sounds 2) synth and 3) organ in no particular order.  The number of keyboards that do all three well isn't great, and perhaps it's zero if you are especially picky!  Nord Stage 3 might be one of the few and then you add the price consideration...

Even with two keyboards I go back and forth on how best to get those three areas handled.   Usually it's with one keyboard that excels in one area with the other keyboard covering the other two.  That happens to be a workstation and clonewheel for me right now.   

I'm also well aware that playing better, learning songs better, programming patches better (more effort!),  looking better ( if at all possible!) and singing better would be much more bang for buck than worrying about sound nuances (that *maybe* someone can notice in the club...).   Yet that doesn't stop me from pining after something new.

[cassdad]

Frankly, what I’d like to see, and really don’t think it would be prohibitive, is a keyboard with what I’ll call “adjustable action/touch”.  [For background:  I only carry 1 keyboard, I use it to do all I need.]. I would like it to have a good piano action (with escapment), and be able to flip a lever, and then have that be an action appropriate for organ or synth solo lines).  Bonus points if I could also adjust the “depth” point of what sounds come in at what point in the travel.  My 2 cents.

[Baggypants]

Hohner have already invented the Melodica and you're all just in denial.

[ElmerJFudd]

I’m pretty sure that a good percentage of the problem is the customer - not everyone expects or wants the same things.  But yes, the business of it all plays a big factor. There’s a lot less innovation until a new comes enters the market within something better. Then they all scramble to offer up comparable or better. 

[EricBarker]

The perfect keyboard:

 

- has a hammer-action keybed

- has unweighted organ/synth action

- weighs under 15lbs

- has 88 keys

- takes up only 3ft on stage

- folds down and can fly carryon

- has labeled controls for every possible function

- 24Voice analog polysynth with every control mapped

- has a 12in color touchscreen that doesn’t distract you

- doesn’t have a harpsichord bank

- will get you laid

[Bobbo Fett]

"-will get you laid"

Errrm.....that's a GEETAR you're thinkin' of there, son.....

[Stokely]

Yep, or just a microphone, going by how many times we had to ask "where the hell is the lead singer" after frat party gigs.  Funny how the guy with nothing to pack up (other than the entire damn PA and lights) is nowhere to be found and has the best stories for later...

[RABid]

For me, the Fantom 7 is pretty close. I prefer a good synth action over hammer action. I want loads of polyphony. A wide variety of sounds. The current state of VA is good enough for me. Had my analog fix in the 80's and no desire to go back. The new virtual piano is great. They keep coming out with new synth engines to load.

 

One thing that is missing is a really good, grinding B3.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, EricBarker said:

- doesn’t have a harpsichord bank

Snuck it in under the radar...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[bill5]

The perfect keyboard:

 

- can easily switch between weighted, semi-weighted, and synth action (or) has a detachable keybed and any of those three can be plugged in

- weighs under 5 lbs

- has 88 keys

- has about 1000 onboard voices, easily categorized with an awesome easy search function and a favorite section obtained with one quick button push

- has poly aftertouch option

- has color touchscreen with an option to connect a separate monitor 

- has killer built-in speaker option

- has a detachable plug n play unit on the left where you can have either mod/pitch wheels or the joystick, and numerous options of diff sizes and styles for each

- has some kind of artificial intelligence such that when I plug connect to it with some kind of microchip attachment or whatever, I play a lot better than normally, but nobody can tell it's the machine and not me

- has an attachment which makes an excellent IPA out of pure air

- is given to me brand new for free in exchange for a glowing review

 

 

[EricBarker]

Detachable keyed doesn't help much, now you're back to a modular setup. You can pretty much do that now. Guaranteed the wear&tear would make that unattractive before long, and it's less likely that one option will make THAT much sense for an entire gig. Better a lever to do it song-by-song.

 

It's not completely impossible though. I've read that the VAX77 had a damned good spring-driven keybed that felt very natural for piano playing. I could imagine a design like that where you could raise or lower the tension of the springs by adjusting their base height. Fatar TP40s already have dual sensors for mimicking piano vs organ detection. Heck, you could go nuts and have variable weighted springs under every key! That way you could do splits where the synth has really light touch and piano is nice and beefy!

[Nathanael_I]

6 minutes ago, EricBarker said:

 I've read that the VAX77 had a damned good spring-driven keybed that felt very natural for piano playing. I could imagine a design like that where you could raise or lower the tension of the springs by adjusting their base height.

I owned a VAX77 for several years.  It wasn't that it felt natural like a piano, it was that it felt expressive like playing one, if that makes sense.  The VAX77, like the Non-Linear Labs C15 scan the keybed optically at 4000 steps vs MIDI 128.   The C15 uses this resolution for its internal engine and the sense of connection to the keyboard is radically improved over a standard synth action.  It is capable of very subtle expression.  The VAX77 was similar, except as a controller, it HAD to send MIDI, which it did using the "high-res" MIDI extensions to add another couple bits to every note to carry the additional resolution.  Pianoteq supported this, and the combination was excellent.  Again, Pianoteq is nowhere near as accurate a piano as the latest VSL Synchron things, but as an expressive keyboard instrument with the VAX77, it was lovely.

 

I wish more keyboard manufacturers did this.  The triple sensor keybed are much nicer. Why not do it continuously and use the high-res MIDI bits?  This is no longer a very big deal technically.  It makes a big difference for playing and expression. 

[bill5]

  

50 minutes ago, EricBarker said:

Detachable keyed doesn't help much, now you're back to a modular setup. You can pretty much do that now.

? I've never seen or heard of a detachable, plug n play keybed. What model(s) have that?

 

Quote

Guaranteed the wear&tear would make that unattractive before long, and it's less likely that one option will make THAT much sense for an entire gig. Better a lever to do it song-by-song.

Never said anything about gigging.   

 

Quote

It's not completely impossible though. I've read that the VAX77 had a damned good spring-driven keybed that felt very natural for piano playing. I could imagine a design like that where you could raise or lower the tension of the springs by adjusting their base height. Fatar TP40s already have dual sensors for mimicking piano vs organ detection. Heck, you could go nuts and have variable weighted springs under every key! That way you could do splits where the synth has really light touch and piano is nice and beefy!

Yeah but it's not just about touch; I'm talking three (or at least two) diff keybeds entirely...

[EricBarker]

Bill5:
 

I guess we're not understanding each other. I'm saying that a desktop synth module with an external controller isn't that far off from a "detachable keybed" you suggested in your list. If you DIY'd a box to fit both (sort of like a euro rack with keybed inside) you could pretty much do exactly what you're suggesting, and swap out Weighted for Unweighted. But it's definitely not as slick as it would be if the manufacturer created a whole ecosystem where you could swap out keybeds.

If you're not talking about gigging, then just use a number of high-end midi control keyboards for your different needs. No swapping involved, they're just there racked up.

I propose that "Swapping" isn't a feature, but a pain. The heart of the issue is that we want different feel for different sounds. Cut out the middle-man and just ask for a shape-shifting board that changes the keys to what you need them to be, without having to move ANY furniture at all! Bionic keys that grow weights when you're playing piano, but get re-absorbed when you switch to an Organ preset!

[RABid]

I've said here in the past that I would love for someone to manufacturer a modular keyboard system where the keyboards and closely stacked together and surrounded by control features, somewhat like a church organ. But, I would want a nice 88 hammer action on the bottom, 76 weighted in the middle, and a nice 61 very quick synth action on top. I should be able to choose wheels, joystick or levers as my control device. And the buyer should be able to choose from a variety of panels containing buttons, knobs, sliders and velocity sensitive pads.

[stoken6]

9 minutes ago, RABid said:

I've said here in the past that I would love for someone to manufacturer a modular keyboard system where the keyboards and closely stacked together and surrounded by control features, somewhat like a church organ. But, I would want a nice 88 hammer action on the bottom, 76 weighted in the middle, and a nice 61 very quick synth action on top. I should be able to choose wheels, joystick or levers as my control device. And the buyer should be able to choose from a variety of panels containing buttons, knobs, sliders and velocity sensitive pads.

This would probably be best served as a controller for software. If a manufacturer could offer their range of controllers as "stackables" (think Hammond XLK3/XLK5 or Mojo Lower Manual), with separate controller panels, that would potentially be attractive - if done correctly it would only need a single-tier stand. Bonus points for thru connectors for power and MIDI. 

 

I've long maintained that Nord should offer a controller for Electro and Stage models that you could stack your Electro/Stage on top. Fanbois would love them, even at premium pricing. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[D. Gauss]

i'd go with an older C7 and someone to move it for me.   

[Tusker]

The stackable would be attractive to me also to drive a software rig. There’s a few hand over hand things that work smoothly when the manuals are lined up and close together. 

[Tom Williams]

A simple HDMI video output would make my presbyopic eyes very happy.

 

If the keyboard weighs less than 10 Kg or so, it will tend to fall off the stand. 

 

If it has poly AT, software can easily interpret that as mono AT in each split zone.  Ensoniq did that decades ago.

 

It seems to me that I should be able to have a physically movable fulcrum, like a single rod that goes through all keys, for changing the resistance of a hammer action.  I have a vague, perhaps false, memory of an electronic piano -- Farfisa? -- that actually did that.

 

I have small hands, so a slightly shorter octave would add to my joy.

 

Since things change, an open-source DAW-less plugin engine with unlimited routing between instruments and effects would future-proof the instrument.

 

Built-in engines would include sample playback, piano with damper resonance, drawbar organ with all the X77 pitches, and physical models for pipe organs, woodwinds, brasses, and plucked and bowed strings.  Extra points for a vocoder that makes me sound like Pavarotti or Meat Loaf.

 

Gotta be able to finance it for $50/month.

[stoken6]

4 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

vocoder that makes me sound like Pavarotti or Meat Loaf

I'd love a Wavestation-style four-way crossfader with Pavarotti, Loaf, Steve Perry and Bob Dylan at each apex.

 

That was a joke by the way.

 

Cheers, Mike

[yannis D]

Folds in 5 

Weights 5 kilos

Has a magic button to change the keybed from light to heavy action.

Uses VTS

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

I’d like to disassemble something like a Kawai VPC1.  Stick the action and components in a roadworthy case with a MacBook Air running main stage as the brains.  

[David Emm]

14 hours ago, stoken6 said:

I'd love a Wavestation-style four-way crossfader with Pavarotti, Loaf, Steve Perry and Bob Dylan at each apex.

That was a joke by the way.

 

If you put the joystick right in the middle, it sounds like Godzilla with his teat in a wringer. 🐲

[David Emm]

18 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

Since things change, an open-source DAW-less plugin engine with unlimited routing between instruments and effects would future-proof the instrument.

 ...

Gotta be able to finance it for $50/month.

 

You had me up until that. I don't think I'm likely to live long enough to reap the full benefits of "future proof." I'm barely good through the end of the month.

 

$50/month, that I can get behind. I'll be going to visit Keith E., Bill Hicks and Prince before I pay it off. 😇 😈

 

[b3plyr]

On 1/29/2023 at 7:10 PM, Nathanael_I said:

I owned a VAX77 for several years.  It wasn't that it felt natural like a piano, it was that it felt expressive like playing one, if that makes sense.  .............

 

I wish more keyboard manufacturers did this.  The triple sensor keybed are much nicer. Why not do it continuously and use the high-res MIDI bits?  This is no longer a very big deal technically.  It makes a big difference for playing and expression. 

I too owned a VAX77 - really regret selling it. Infinite Response (VAX77 designer and seller) did a Kickstarter for a "do it yourself" controller. They found a cost effective sensor that would let the controller function much as the VAX77 but at a lower cost. Unfortunately the project didn't succeed. There were quality control issues from IRs suppliers and the "do it yourself" build was inconsistent. Too bad - I really was hoping for a new VAX.

[b3plyr]

On 1/29/2023 at 6:58 PM, EricBarker said:

. I've read that the VAX77 had a damned good spring-driven keybed that felt very natural for piano playing. I could imagine a design like that where you could raise or lower the tension of the springs by adjusting their base height. Fatar TP40s already have dual sensors for mimicking piano vs organ detection. Heck, you could go nuts and have variable weighted springs under every key! That way you could do splits where the synth has really light touch and piano is nice and beefy!

The VAX77 also cleverly used weights. The keybed worked well for piano and amazingly, organ. They had three different keybed touches available, and the medium worked the best for piano and organ. Wish I had kept mine.

[ElmerJFudd]

I did get to play the VAX.  It was weighted but also very fast.  A very good compromise action.  Probably most similar is the TP40L.  

[Delaware Dave]