Talk me out of getting a Nord Stage 3 Compact...

[HSS]

I've had a 5D 73 since the beginning of 2018.  I almost sold it a few months after I got because the pushback of the springy action, especially for AP, was very difficult for me deal with.  I forced myself to get used to the NE5d's springy action and it's now my main gigging board for bands I play with. Having said this, I still wouldn't want to try to play more exposed, nuanced AP on it in a solo or duo setting. 

 

I thought about trying to swap the NE5d's springs out as others have done but I didn't want to risk opening an expensive board and messing with it, although I've opened up some of my of cheaper boards over the years and tinkered with 'em. 

[HSS]

53 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

You want to be talked out of it? Sure, I'll give it a go:  It's a silly red, Fisher-Price toy looking keyboard, that cost almost as much as a used car, isn't fun to play piano on, and will not change your live audience's opinion of you one iota other than perhaps them noticing something red.  how's that?   (i kid)

I'll give it a go as well.   Nord's red color, like Kurzweil's purple color, won't help you with the babes.  Nord's and Kurz's colors look Gay. 

 

If you want to score with the babes, especially at biker bars, stick with high-testosterone black boards with at most wood-colored end caps.  And be sure and carry your gear in a bigly gas-guzzling pickup truck, not some girlyman van or sedan, or even worse an EV.  And wear Tommy Lee wife beater T-shirts and biker or cowboy boots along with a keychain dangling off your studded belt. 

 

But then again, none of this extraordinary effort may help with the babes because you're still just a keyboard player.  

 

Disclaimer: I'm not Gay and I play a Nord and a Kurz and, until a few a years ago, hauled my gear in a Ford Focus station wagon.  Sometimes I even score with my wife of 20 years. 

[ElmerJFudd]

Given the strength Nord has in areas like multiple sound engines, user selectable sound library, tactile user interface, and aluminum build - why do they never address the most common complaint of tight springy feeling action?  The Stage Compact is intended to play piano, synth, organ, etc. on.  A compromise action (at $3500) would be a proper flagship tier semiweight synth action as we find on similarly priced Montage, Jupiter X, Kronos.  

[RandyFF]

Perhaps another sign a new NS is on the way?  At SW, NS3 88 is $1,100 off, NS3 Compact is $700 off!

 

The used market would probably get you another $1,000- $1,500 off.  If you wait until NS4 is announced, there’ll probably be a lot more used NS3s for sale.

 

 

[Stokely]

Now that their prices are back to Nord-normal (so just "expensive", not ludicrously so), the main beef I have with the Compact is the action.  I didn't really like the action on my Electro 6d.

If I were to manage to sell the two keyboards that I'm planning on, I'd be tempted to get the HA model.  Since I just got an SK Pro--and have come to the realization that setting up two keyboards isn't much more hassle than one--I'm kind of leaning toward a Fantom but not the weighted one, that thing is too huge and heavy.

Going by Guitar Center used prices, you don't save as much as I'd like to see, considering those recent drops.  Heck there are some on there used more expensive than the new dropped prices!  The best price right now on there for on a HA88 is about 350 less than a new one.

[MathOfInsects]

It’s my one-board to rule them all. Any minor shortcomings are well more than made up for by its nimbleness in live settings and vibranium-like build quality. I like the slightly stiffer action and have no trouble at all adapting to it or bouncing back and forth between it and an OG organ.

 

When I covet other boards, it is only for certain select features—a nice big touch screen instead of dial-navigation, or some UI in terms of which dials are big and which are not. And of course…the stupid split point issue. But what I get from this board in terms of being able to play any gig with it, easily and well, and know I can be in the moment and have what I need under my fingers at all times, is worth every penny to me.

 

Having said that: please Nord. We’re 20 years in. Abandon that stupid split point custom.

[drawback]

I had a NS2/73 for years and it never let me down, although I never really liked the action for pianos or organs. The best light action I’ve ever played is on the Mojo61, followed closely by a Kronos61.

 

So since you already have a Mojo61, and it sounds as if you like everything about it except the acoustic piano, have you gone the iPad route? The Mojo is a good basic controller and now that iOS MIDI has matured, I sure wish I’d kept mine. You can always plunge into the Red Sea at any time. Perhaps the longer you wait, the better the options. 

[obxa]

As an interim, since you like everything else about the Mojo (and it's action..)  have you considered using it with Mainstage dedicated to just piano?    With your studio stuff, you're probably already familiar with Pianoteq, or some of the better Kontakt libraries:  Noir, Gentlemen etc.     Some like Pianoteq or Ivory can run stand-alone, and you can bypass the whole Mainstage eco-system.    Many folks here love the Ravenscroft.   

 

My intent in buying a Compact was I could always hook up a weighted controller underneath. That of course defeats the single keyboard option.  I've done organ-centric gigs wtih Mojo Classic and using the Compact to cover Wurli.  Also the Mainstage thing mentioned above.   That worked out fine and sounded good, but have a really hard time playing AP on any unweighted action for anything more than a couple of songs.      I was about to grab a Studio logic controller or Yamaha P121, then went for the NumaX- which I'm very happy with. 

 

Nords are far from perfect: I still hate the split thing, and wish they had an editor app.  INMHO they are bullet proof and can cover anything.  They'll hold value.  That's  if you can live with the action.  If you end up hating it, won't have a hard time selling it. 

 

 I'm with Stokely, bring what you need to be happy.  

34 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Since I just got an SK Pro--and have come to the realization that setting up two keyboards isn't much more hassle than one--I'm kind of leaning toward a Fantom but not the weighted one, that thing is too huge and heavy.

[EricBarker]

1 hour ago, obxa said:

As an interim, since you like everything else about the Mojo (and it's action..)  have you considered using it with Mainstage dedicated to just piano?    With your studio stuff, you're probably already familiar with Pianoteq, or some of the better Kontakt libraries:  Noir, Gentlemen etc.     Some like Pianoteq or Ivory can run stand-alone, and you can bypass the whole Mainstage eco-system.    Many folks here love the Ravenscroft.   

you guys are reading my mind! Yeah, I did the Mainstage thing for years on a Keylab88. with Mojo racked on tier2. Back when I did 5hour cover band stuff it wasn’t so bad. But now I’m in a number of original bands that run in and out of different venues and practice spaces for 45min sets… it’s just a chore!

 

But I’m seriously considering going the iPad route to augment the Mojo. I even got an 11in iPad Pro partly with that idea in mind. But I’m a little stumped how to wire it so the physical setup isn’t a pain in the a$$. I’d need a usb cable to the Mojo, a USB cable for power, and an audio out (iPad is just USB-C). I have a few MOTU M4s siting around, they could take care of the MIDI input and audio out, but I’d still need to power everything. If I can build a small pre-wired “pedal board” that sits on top of the Mojo, where I just plug the iPad and Power and GO, that would be great. I’d also want to use a stereo ABY to switch between Mojo audio out and iPad. And finally, Mojo doesn’t really have any controllers for program switching.

 

no easy solutions, but wired correctly maybe I could make it tolerable. So far, seems like an Frankenstein at best. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!

[kenheeter]

You can get a USB-C hub that will provide regular USB inputs as well as power delivery for the iPad and audio out.  I bought one on Amazon for about $50 and it works perfectly.  My iPad sits on a desktop stand velcroed to my keyboard with the hub velcroed to the base. A few cables and you're good to go.

 

[EricBarker]

A hub with multiple USB-C ports? (All my devices use USB-C now), and an audio out? Yeah! That would be fantastic. Link?

 

ABY would be easy enough to wire in. But control system for doing program changes? Not sure what direction to go with that!

[mate stubb]

3 hours ago, EricBarker said:

 

But I’m seriously considering going the iPad route to augment the Mojo.

 

This. My gig rig before I stopped was a NS2 EX 76 and a Mojo 61. For rehearsals it was just the Mojo.  Being used to the Mojo organ sound, I don't think I could ever stomach the Nord organ. But an iPad and a Mojo 61...

[EricBarker]

one of the seriously great things about the mojo is how flat and spacious the top of the box is. I've velcro'd pedals, Roli Seaboards, iPads, etc up there. I think the holy grail would be to wire in the equivalent of a pedal board, but hand-operated. The Trolly Bag that I use has a bit of extra room, so I could just leave it all hooked up, Plug in the iPad, and be off to the races! I could even wire in the stupid Mojo power supply up there with a tiny power strip, plug it in and go! This would take some figuring, but would be SLICK!

[obxa]

1 hour ago, EricBarker said:

But control system for doing program changes? Not sure what direction to go with that!

 

On some of my church gigs where I'm 2nd keys ( Hammond Xk2 or Mojo Organ) where I need to also do some orch or pad stuff,  I use a Behringer X-touch mini. It can send multiple program, and control changes  It's not as easy to program as the more common  Korg Nano-control, because you need  a PC to edit.  But  works great and can send just about anything.  In church world a lot of folks also use the Akai things with the drum pads configured to send program changes. I did that for a while, but the Akai stuff is really not road worthy.     BTW- Korg can't do program changes without using some mapping software.

 

The times I've used Ipad, I did  USB to Midi convertor and a IK IO midi interface.  It's a topic for another thread- but I wouldn't personally use an  Ipad again for anything more than secondary pads & string type stuff.  Others here have had better success than me.   I found it dicey if for anything mission critical, and having an  Macbook  air isn't that much bigger than an ipad and less dongles.

[EricBarker]

7 minutes ago, obxa said:

 

On some of my church gigs where I'm 2nd keys ( Hammond Xk2 or Mojo Organ) where I need to do some orch or pad stuff,  I use a Behringer X-touch mini. It can send multiple program, and control changes  It's not as easy to program as the more common  Korg Nano-control, because you need  a PC to edit.  But  works great and can send just about anything.  In church world a lot of folks also use the Akai things with the drum pads configured to send program changes. I did that for a while, but the Akai stuff is really not road worthy.     BTW- Korg can't do program changes without using some mapping software.

 

The times I've used Ipad, I did  USB to Midi convertor and a IK IO midi interface.  It's a topic for another thread- but I wouldn't personally use an  Ipad again for anything more than secondary pads & string type stuff.  Others here have had better success than me.   I found it dicey if for anything mission critical, and having an  Mac airbook isn't that much bigger than an ipad.

 

God! That's pretty much completes the puzzle, thank you!

 

The thing that I keep coming back to is that, this is such a frankenstein monster, and we haven't even started talking about pitch/mod wheel to do synth patches. I began this thread with a "one size fits all for easy live gigging", and came out the other end with a total rube goldberg system. Not sure that's a good route to take, even if it's cheaper. I might be willing to sacrifice the Nth degree of Organ sound and a less-than-perfect keybed for convenience and simplicity. After all, I played Gawd Awful TP100LR for years and it never bothered me!

If I can truly get the NS3C to feel like the Mojo61 with $45 worth of springs and a few hours time... that might be a much better solution than spending hours rigging up a system which may very well come to life in middle of the night, steal my wife, and murder my family!

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, EricBarker said:

 

a total rube goldberg system. Not sure that's a good route to take, even if it's cheaper. I might be willing to sacrifice the Nth degree of Organ sound and a less-than-perfect keybed for convenience and simplicity. 

This is the crux for me. We use the term "swiss army knife" for boards like this for a reason. Nothing on a real-life Swiss Army knife is as good as any of those things would be on their own. I mean, those tiny scissors? Who uses those, mice? The value is in the quality-to-convenience ratio. IMO nothing comes close to the Nord for that.

It's a very good organ. Is it the best? Well, no, an organ is the best organ. If I ONLY played organ gigs, would it be my first choice for a clone? No, though I'd be willing to revisit the C2 sometime.  Can I do just about any organ gig I'm offered with it, thereby saving me the cost of another clone? Yep. A little time tweaking the settings gets a very, very workable organ out of it. And it records beautifully. (Turn keyclick all the way up, it's amazing how much of our expectation around organ sounds are wrapped up in that initial attack.)

AP. Some of the samples are just beautiful. I work with a producer who specifically requests that I use the Royal Grand 3d and "that upright" (which is Black Upright)--both of which feature  a bunch of tweaks I've made over the years. Again, if I only played piano gigs, would this be my board? No way. BUT the Grand would be way up there as a choice.

For live, my primary two concerns with AP are, can I hear it, and would I want to hear it. Easy enough yesses there. I'm not a purist; I have a grand piano 8 feet from where I'm typing this if I need my jones. 

EP/clav: Some are REALLY nice (Wurly 2), some are workable. I like the Nefertiti Rhodes, but I hardly ever choose Rhodes over Wurly. A little OD and some sweetening on the effects panel and these can sound very nice live. Would I want to play it next to Frank McComb? Hell no, but also I wouldn't want to have to play next to him at all. It would be like me playing minigolf while he's winning the Masters.

Synths? Obviously there are great single-use synth boards out there, so any all-in-one board is going to come with a caveat. But it is VERY easy to coax nice sounds in real time from the A1 engine.

The common thread in all this is for me the board's secret sauce: How dead easy it is to customize and use whatever you are playing in real time, literally by the note. No menus, no highlighting different options on the same buttons. That element makes all the "good enoughs" leap way over any other options on the market. I never have to worry about getting what I need at the moment of use, and for the kinds of jobs I do, that's a massive value-add.

[EricBarker]

Yeah… what you say is absolutely spot on. I think a lot of it comes down to where we are at the time. Every keyboard and setup I’ve gotten over the years I haven’t regretted. They were products of what I wanted to focus on at the time. I’ve gone through many stages. Started out with a DX7 in the 90s (ooof), got a QS8 which made me supremely happy coming off the DX. But eventually I realized how crappy the AP was, I started to learn and listen to real synth players, and everything sounded plastic to me. I finally said screw it and built a Mainstage Rig where every sound was gorgeous and I could do huge ProgRock shows with pre-programmed patch changes. And I played 5hour cover gigs that spanned from Elvis to Muse, and sounded exactly like the record.

 

But now I’m in a great place… I’m surrounded by talented musician friends I can hook up with and play all the instruments I can’t. I write and record, but I don’t do the trollish bedroom producer thing anymore, I produce to play music with great musicians. But when I’m in a gig, I want to be behind an instrument, not a cockpit. I want to connect with the audience, sing, play trumpet and bass when I feel the itch, and within reason have solid quality instruments at my finger tips when I need them… all without taking 40mins to setup for a 2hr rehearsal!

 

I’m still gonna bring my PolyD to play bass (I honestly love it more than playing with most bass players, and playing bass keys excites me to a degree I can’t describe).

 

So yeah, I’m going to get a Nord Stage, maybe it’ll be in April after Taxes and NAMM so we can see where the future looks like, but I’m pretty sure at this point that this is a “right” direction for me.

[AnotherScott]

 

15 hours ago, EricBarker said:

I’m reading up on the Yammy YC73… it does look like an interesting contender but I’d probably go for the 61 or the 88, the 73 looks to be in no-man’s-land compared to the NS3 73. Sadly, I’m reading that the organ and Leslie are pretty lacking.

 

Like Niacin, I am among those who think that, after the 1.2 update, the organ/leslie are fine... Nord no longer beats it there. But NS3 still has a number of advantages over the YC, including the VA synth with full knobby control, aftertouch, the ability to load custom samples.

 

In terms of using a hammer action for organ, YC73 (but not YC88) is above average as such things go, and best might be the Kurzweil K2700 and Forte, though my experience on that action was long ago and brief, so I'm not sure exactly how they compare. I'll get back to Kurz in a minute.

 

In terms of using a non-hammer action for piano, to me NS3 isn't terrible, and yeah, it's better if you put in lighter springs. But I'd still probably prefer the YC61 action.

 

I'd also prefer the Kurzweil PC4-7 action, which Delaware Dave mentioned. It might be worth consideration, even though I think its organ lags behind Nord and Yamaha. As Dave said, a Vent could help (it has assignable outs do it's easy to do), or you could drive B3X from the iPad, but I do understand you're aiming for simplicity. From that perspective, you could use its internal drawbar organ for the more "casual" uses of the board, and the add-on only when circumstances justify. But Kurs does not give you all the dedicated effects controls of the YC or the Nord, nor the dedicated VA controls of the Nord. There are plenty of assignable controls, but that's not quite the same thing.

 

And I'll toss in one more possibility here... the Fantom 7 (or 6), which I only played briefly, but felt good to me as a non-hammer board I could probably play piano on without issue. I'd say the organ is better than Kurzweil, but not as good as Yamaha. It doesn't have the dedicated effects controls, but it does have a number of dedicated synth controls. I don't like the pianos on my Fantom-0, but the full Fantom has the V-Piano which I would think should do the trick. One thing I particularly like about Fantom is that, if you're coming from the perspective of someone who has typically used two boards, the Fantom can largely be operated with very independent "left half" and "right half" controls, allowing you to come closer to a two-board experience than on most other boards. To me, the biggest knock on it is that it's a chunky 39 lbs. But it sounds like that might not be a limiting factor for you, considering your discussion of NS3-88, SV2, and YC88.

 

Operationally, Yamaha and Nord give you dedicated effects controls, Roland and Nord give you dedicated synth controls, and, yeah, only Nord gives you both. So in that respect, as many have found, indeed all roads lead to Nord.

 

[EricBarker]

Actually, I’m more interested in a lighter, non-weighted board these days like the Stage Compact. I’ve, surprisingly, made my peace with non-weighted beds, the Mojo has been my favorite board. And as I mentioned, a lot of my main gigs these days involve me playing bass synth in my LH (I have the PolyD slung vertically under my main board and I love it), so i can’t really use the full 7-octave range. I’m much more an ensemble musician, so if I’m all over 7-octaves I’m probably over-playing!

 

Anyway, I just found out my friend and live sound engineer bought a Stage3 88. I’m gonna rent it for a few days and see whether the workflow speaks to me. Heck, maybe I’ll hook the Mojo keybed up to it and play it to get a good sense of the Compact!

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, EricBarker said:

Actually, I’m more interested in a lighter, non-weighted board these days like the Stage Compact. I’ve, surprisingly, made my peace with non-weighted beds

The (non-hammer) Fantom 7 is the 39 lbs I mentioned... if you could get by with 61 keys, that version is 33.75 lbs. But that's still a good amount more than the 23 lb NS3 Compact.

[niacin]

2 hours ago, EricBarker said:

a lot of my main gigs these days involve me playing bass synth in my LH - I have the PolyD slung vertically under my main board and I love it

Would love to see some pics, I do a lot of LH bass and when you say 'slung vertically' I don't quite know exactly what you mean, but I'm intrigued.

[ProfD]

This is not the crowd to discourage a KB purchase.🤣

 

Go for it with the NS3 compact especially if most of the boxes get ticked. It's a performance-oriented KB.😎

[EricBarker]

3 hours ago, niacin said:

Would love to see some pics, I do a lot of LH bass and when you say 'slung vertically' I don't quite know exactly what you mean, but I'm intrigued.

I had a post about it a month back with a “Derek Sherinian style” keyboard setup, with the keys facing upward, like a stationary keytar. I was able to do it with my small PolyD and a large laptop tripod. I realized it felt FANTASTIC when playing synth bass because it put my hand in a similar position to how I finger bass guitar. I may keep my main board in standard position, as having LH/RH in different hand positions further aids independence when filling different roles. It’s very comfortable too.

 

I’ll get some pics at some point.

[Paul Henry]

15 hours ago, EricBarker said:

 

God! That's pretty much completes the puzzle, thank you!

 

The thing that I keep coming back to is that, this is such a frankenstein monster, and we haven't even started talking about pitch/mod wheel to do synth patches. I began this thread with a "one size fits all for easy live gigging", and came out the other end with a total rube goldberg system. Not sure that's a good route to take, even if it's cheaper. I might be willing to sacrifice the Nth degree of Organ sound and a less-than-perfect keybed for convenience and simplicity. After all, I played Gawd Awful TP100LR for years and it never bothered me!

If I can truly get the NS3C to feel like the Mojo61 with $45 worth of springs and a few hours time... that might be a much better solution than spending hours rigging up a system which may very well come to life in middle of the night, steal my wife, and murder my family!

I just did the spring swap on my Stage3 C 73 and I still can play AP,EP stuff fine. As I've said before it made the keybed much more organ centric.

I haven't touched a MoJo in awhile but my guess the action is now pretty close to it.

Fifty dollars at Syntaur and an hour of careful time will do it. I certainly don't open up keyboards everyday and it was quite a simple task.

Again my experience and two cents worth.

 

Paul

[CyberGene]

Will you void the Nord warranty if you swap the springs?

[allan_evett]

Eric, like you I have a few different keyboards, and also vary my rig for different gigs. The Stage 3 does cover a lot of ground, live. With some creative programming, I've even covered 80's multiple part songs that many think would require an uber-workstation to pull off.  And that's been a big plus, especially when staging is small or load-in/load-out is weird. I have the 76-key model that is frequently bashed, but I don't mind it. Lotsa years of playing atrocious church basement-type upright battleships,I suppose .

[stoken6]

40 minutes ago, allan_evett said:

Eric, like you I have a few different keyboards, and also vary my rig for different gigs. The Stage 3 does cover a lot of ground, live. With some creative programming, I've even covered 80's multiple part songs that many think would require an uber-workstation to pull off.  And that's been a big plus, especially when staging is small or load-in/load-out is weird. I have the 76-key model that is frequently bashed, but I don't mind it. Lotsa years of playing atrocious church basement-type upright battleships,I suppose .

+1. Nord Stage does strike a sweet spot, covering "all-in-one" gigs, plus doing just enough to be a good controller AND sound module, which makes it powerful in multi-keyboard rigs.

I can't stand the HP action on the (newer) 76-key boards, though.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Will you void the Nord warranty if you swap the springs?

 You could always swap the original ones back before you brought it in for service. Nords don't have any kind of "seal" you have to worry about breaking if you open it up.

[Paul Henry]

8 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Will you void the Nord warranty if you swap the springs?

Mine was well out of warranty, so I didn't consider that point.

I would hope not, it's not a mangle job, I don't think a tech would know that it was done if none the wiser.😉

 

Paul

[EricBarker]

The one thing that always worries me about opening up boards is I've had a hell of a lot of problems with screw holes stripping. I've had 2 Arturia Keylab88s. I played in smokey bars for years, which was hell on the key sensors. I routinely had to open them up and blow out the ash. I had one incident where an AC unit above my board blew up and belched ash all over the my board (it was literally like an inch thick). That board didn't last much longer (I should have had the bar pay for damages), so I bought a second one. Even then, every so often I would have a key lose velocity or cut out. About every 4 months I would have to open it up and do some cleaning. I only ever used manual screw drivers, but after a while the screws would strip. My keyboards get a lot of use and move around a lot. I take good care of them, but they're working devices.

I'm no longer in that city anymore, it's much dryer, and no smoking, so I'm probably going to be much better off. However I am concerned that if I *DO* have to perform routine maintenance, that the boards won't degrade. How have people found Nords in terms of physical build quality? I figure that Keylabs are mostly "bedroom junky" boards, being controllers, but they both use Fatar beds.